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Greed Monger (time for another thread)
Jacxolope
Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
Well, every 2-3 months I try to catch up on the goings on with this game.
The Forum over there is dead and is little help- However, I know my friends at mmorpg.com can help me out.
I have been on the fence about this one but now am thinking this was all a scam. No update, the CEO is "switching jobs again" (seems to have been a critisizm from the beginning that he is all over the board and cannot stick something out very long) and the last post on the forum seems to be from over 2 weeks ago.
No updates, no news and evidently (from what I gather from the forums) 2 Island holders wanted their money back and were refused along with changes being made to how a person claims their land.
I looked around the internet and saw the CEO posting like a madman all over the place while wanting money- He seems MIA now that he has the money and nothing really to show for it.
Am I wrong? I hope I am- Sadly, after spending a few days researching this from its start (and reading lots of old threds) then fast forwarding to the present- This isnt looking good...At all.
Comments
If the game is a scam, it is hard to tell right now. So, I would wait to see some gameplay before making a judgement.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Yeah but the comment you mention (where he seems to have 'grown up') was over 2 months ago and was the last time I have seen him post anywhere. EDIT- It was from 12-16 so not quite 2 months but damn close.
That was one thing that stood out to me as well- But when you have 100K of other peoples money it seems odd to have no time to communicate on your own Forum with the people who paid.
I also agree that there is no way to know if it was a scam or not until we actually see the game- I am asking for opinions based on those who have followed this. The last posting I can find on the KS page (outside the people wanting their money back) says that we already should have seen gameplay months ago. For a game which made 3x its stated goal to be so far behind schedule (what if it had made the asking price?) and the CEO to be essentially silent, the forum dead and no news or updates whatsoever in months- My opinion at this point is that I am glad I never gave any money and think those who did are going to be very, very unhappy.
Again though- I hope I am mistaken. I like the idea and would probably play. if its ever released and works properly. The idea is very appealing to me.
That is why that type of money up front is NEVER a good idea.You should not even wrap your head around that game,just file it under the type of business you don't want to support.
Leave pre-game support to the big investors who can afford to lose money.
Game development is VERY costly if done well but i think MANY people are fooled into thinking 100k can't do much to fool an average gamer's eye.
You can EASILY block out a large game world with some land/water textures and a few models like trees and bush.it does not take any money at all aside from maybe paying 1-2 people to help you.
A skilled modeler can make an animated model in no time,so they can build a map,put in a character,cloth it and fake people into thinking there is some great game that awaits.They can even make a few assets like a castle or house or even use prefab models free off the internet.
If you ever check out Epic games Epic Citadel,it is an amazing piece of work of a small village,it took ONE guy a month,yet these so called kick starter games can't show us anything remotely that good with team and several months into it.
We see so many people crying about others posting negative comments,well what do they think marketing is?Marketing is a process to mislead and coerce people into buying their product.I wish people would quit falling into marketing traps and let the rich make the game,then decide to support it when it is DONE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This whole project is a train wreck. Anyone who backed this is nuts IMO.
Lots of great ideas out there. Hell me and most posters on this site can come up with a great idea for a game. Implementation is another thing. This will never see the light of day and anyone who put money into it is S.O.L.
We are still going strong... I post on our forum all the time and I post on our Facebook page from time to time. Trying to manage the team doesn't leave me much time to update our Twitter and Facebook pages but I do the best I can. As for our KickStarter page I had nothing to do with creating the KickStarter page and since I was a member of the Development Team I didn't pledge any money toward it so I have no ability at all to post any updates on the comments. Jason is still very much a Active member of the team manage the Business aspects of the team while I manage the technical aspects. Here is our Updated Roadmap I posted on our Forum back toward the start of the Month:
Ok so at long last here is our updated Roadmap:Some of this stuff is provided with Atavism other parts is custom that we are working on for GM
Phase 1: Core Content Development Tools
1) Combat, Crafting & Atavism Project Updating System - 15th Feb
Combat
- Skill system: experience based levelling & skill-use increase options.
- Abilities: damage, healing, stat altering, stun, spawn, despawn and more ability/effect types.
- Co-ordinated effects: Support for animation, sound, particle and other special effects on ability activation and completion.
- Basic Skill progress and Ability UI provided.
Atavism Project Updating
- New Updating system to allow updates to be implemented without losing any content created in the world
Crafting
- Design Recipe templates in the Atavism Tools
- Allow players to craft items in game
2) Quests - 1st March
Quests
- Ability to create quests, set their objectives and set up their rewards in the Atavism Unity editor tool.
- Basic Quest UI provided to allow players to accept, track and hand in their quests.
- Quest Item support – items that only drop when on quests
Phase 2: Core Server Functionality ( Beta)
3.1) Terrain System - 15th March
Terrain System
- Full Paging and stitching Unity Terrain System
3.2) Parcel System
- Full permissions (Build, Harvest, Sell, ect)
- Ability to build and place crafted items on Parcels
4) Server Side Collision - 5th April
Server Side Collision
- Navmesh collision generation in Unity that can be copied to and run on the server
- Navmesh editing on the server
5) Authoritative Player Control - 19th April
Authoratative Player Control
- Server implementation of character control to verify characters position and movements from the client input.
6) Pathfinding and Mob AI improvements - 10th May
Pathfinding
- Mobs pathfinding system upgraded to use server collision to accurately move around the world.
AI
- Improved AI functionality to control mobs with patrol paths, roam radius, combat behavior settings.
- Possible advanced implementation of a system similar to Story Bricks
7) Server Management Tools & Monetization - 24th May
Server Management Tools
- Manage accounts
- Start/Stop server
- Check on server status & other details
Monetization
- Server side support for Item mall
- Server side support for Subscription based models
8) End of Atavism Beta improvements - 7th June - (Not to be mixed up with GM's Beta. No Beta Date for GM has been set at this time.)
Phase 3: Extra Features (Full Release (Atavism Release))
Order and Dates to be determined at a later time
Social
- Friends and Blocked list UI
- Chat channels
Grouping
- Allow players to form groups to work together on quests, in combat and take on dungeons/pvp battles
Merchants
- Allow players to purchase items from NPCs.
- Atavism Unity editor plugin to allow setting up Merchants
Trading
- Secure server side system for trading to allow non-bound items to be traded between players but with checks in place to prevent duplications etc.
Pets
- Both combat and non-combat pets that follow you around the world
- Ability to tame pets and use them to assist you in combat
GM Custom Plugins will include Crafting, Parcels, Chat, Resource Gathering and many of the Plugins that come with Atavism will be customized for our needs.
Alpha Update:
We will begin alpha with Combat and Crafting in place, which will be announced soon. Upon Alpha, we will begin integrating the remaining systems one at a time for testing.
We have some exciting days ahead for GM and hope you guys will stick with us through it all! Thanks for your support and patients as we continue to move forward with GM's Development!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are now past Feb. 15th and the Combat and Crafting Portions of that Roadmap are in place. The Crafting System is still a work in progress and is far from the final Version we have in mind but it's to a Playable Alpha phase ready for testing. Our Client Programmer is working on our Client Side stuff, getting our UIs integrated into our MMO Framework, and gearing up for Alpha. All in all we are pretty quickly nearing the Launch of our Alpha test.
Some other note worthy dates include March 15th which is when we will be getting our Voxel Engine Integrated into the Game.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
That all sounds good but your official forum is dead (including posts from you and the CEO), your Facebook seems dead and there really has been news since December which was essentially 'I am switching jobs, cannot say much because I could be sued (who does the CEO hang around with since hes always threatening to sue or now says he cannot talk about his former employer or he could be sued?) I am now funding this with my own money, will be ready when its ready..."
My issue (which has not been addressed) is how someone (speaking of the CEO, not yourself) could have the time to post so often while garnering thousands of dollars from the public and now- He is essentially MIA?
I know he works and is busy- Some of your contributers have 'donated' $2,500 or more and for $100K (or more) I would think a little time could be made each month (or even week) on your own forum.
-This is nothing against you either. Personally, I think the work and everything else is being left on your shoulders and you are doing everything you can. I think this was a scam from day 1 (not that I think you were privy.) and I think the workload is far too much and what will eventually (if ever) be released will be broken and barely playable and shut down very quickly.
The CEO knows a whole lot about the legal system it seems, and I think he found a way to make a nice payment towards his living expenses and used alot of people including yourself-
-But thats just my opinion, of course.
Wait didn't he?
I know where your coming from. However I am officially the Team Lead. Anything that comes from me might just as well have came from Jason. Jason has put me in charge of All of the Technical stuff. He's the Company Owner and handles the behind the scenes Business aspects of running the team.
Another way to look at it is let's take a look at EQ:N. You never see the owner of Sony or Sony Online Entertainment doing interviews and talking about EQ:N you see the Team Lead, You see the Team's PR Reps, you see the different Leads taking interviews. The Owner of SOE sits behind a desk writing the checks, hiring the staff, ect. They then put faith in their team that they have put together to see the Project through. That's basically what Jason is doing. He's put the team together, He put me in charge of the team, and now he has control over all of the major details and writes the checks. It's up to us to deal with MMORPG.com, Deal with our Forums, Up to me to Lead the team, ect.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
[mod edit]
If you bought something at the grocery store you were able to visually inspect it, touch it and know the product is actually there before you purchase it- If you still buy something that is unfit for consumption you can usually return it (or exchange it) and there are also Laws, Statutes and regulations regarding food safety.
-We are not talking about "buying something at the store" but rather paying someone six figures to make a game which at this point is very sketchy as top whether a game will or will not materialize (and if it actually works)
There is no consumer protection here, there is no financial invoices to see where the money went- Its a guy and his word- A guy who has threatened lawsuits, lied about purchasing FB likes, lied several times and has failed to materialize even a basic Alpha which was slated to be out what, almost a year ago?
When the money was rolling in, this same guy was doing interviews, talking on forums, hyping his cash flow- Now he is awol.
-Not the same as buying a bad egg.
I am also thinking this is the beginning of a trend with KS scams...er...games (that dont exist) where fans are expected to fund them and take all the 'risk' while there is no oversight whatsoever on the developers end and IF (a big if) the game is profitable, they keep it all to themselves.
This is looking like the poster child for KS scams .
James, honestly I am not directing any of this at you- As I have said, I think you are being duped along with the people who forked over the $$$- I think you are about it buddy, the entire working part of the company. You are wearing all the hats and I would bet the 'pay' isnt the greatest for what you are doing and any promise of future profit sharing is probably looking rather slim.
I understand you are working your butt off, trying your hardest and doing more than your share of work-
Personally , I hold you in pretty high regards based on what I have seen and read.
-I also expect you to defend the game, the company and your boss on a public forum. That goes without saying. Doesnt change my opinion however and time will tell.
You ARE entitled to your Opinion... However I see what's going on behind the scenes and while yes we have had a rocky and slow start things ARE moving forward and MOST of your worries and Concerns aren't true.
We have a fairly large team for a Indie Development Team... Our Team is far from teams like WoW's team or other AAA Development Studios with thousands working on the game but for a Indie we have a pretty sizable team. In our Main Development Skype Discussion we have 17 active members. Some of them are our World Builders, 3D Modelers, texture artists, ect. Who's jobs are complete until after we launch Alpha but they are still very much a active part of the team and are on stand by waiting for new tasks. We currently have 2 of us working on Programming. I'm responsible for Server side Coding, Managing the Servers, Working on Networking and Database Design, Development, and management. Our other Programmer handles all of the Client Side stuff. I'll be handling all of our PHP Development for Game Integration into our Website, Parcel Auction System, Cash shop, ect. and I'll be Developing our Facebook App. that integrates GM into Facebook though that will be done Post-Launch.
Post-Launch I'll continue to Lead the Team and I'll be handling our R&D department that we will be starting up to research and Prototype new Technology to add to the game.
We also have a sizable Q&A Department that is testing out each new build, checking for Bugs, and hounding us to fix things and make things more usable as they find issues. They Spend hours each night running around in our Windows Client and Mac client making sure that the user experience is the same between Operating Systems and making sure that our Players will have a solid experience once we officially launch.
As for pay I can't say what each team member is making as that's between them and Jason but I can let you guys know what I'm making. We would like to be as open with you guys as possible and it's only right that I be the first... I am officially labeled as Volunteer. However I've been making bonuses upon completing different tasks. To date I have gotten a new Mid range Gaming Rig valued at $800. My old computer was a 2008 $400 walmart special so not even close to being good enough for development. This Development PC is a huge improvement. I have gotten a $1200 or so Unity Pro License. I got $2,000 December 2012 for my work leading up to our KickStarter Campaign and then through out the KickStarter Campaign, I've gotten a couple $500 checks over the last year and I believe a $200 check for a Birthday Bonus in 2013. I then have been promised a pretty sizable check upon launching Alpha but I won't say the amount until I see how much I actually get where it's taken us so long to launch Alpha. I've then been promised a percentage of profits post launch and funding to start up a R&D department to Prototype new things to add to the game and future games.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
I can say one thing for you James... At the very least you got Jason to stop showing up in threads like this one and making an arse out of himself. That alone deserves a bravo sir for a job well done. If by the off chance it's because Jason's grown up a little than good for him as well. It's nice to see him letting you speak for the team.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
A list of Current Features:
Account Creation
Full UMA integration (Avatars)
Inventory
Movement
Chat
Items
Resource Nodes
Resource Gathering
WoW style Crafting - Will be updated to our own Crafting Style over the next week or so
Skills
Abilities
PvM Combat
PvP Combat
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Last night we had a very productive night of testing. I was up all night with the QA Team and I'm sure some of them were up all night though most of them are from other time zones. We had some nice PvP battles going on but we were mostly doing PvM. We had a bunch of Tree Ents, Wolves, and Griffons harmed in the process... As the night came to a close I got basic Mining in place and had the Tree Ents start to drop Wood Logs so we could start gathering Resources.
Today I am upgrading our Crafting system to the latest code for the Framework we are using and reworking some parts of the Crafting System. I'll be pushing the Crafting System out to our Testing Server tonight so we can start testing it. We have a bunch of Ores that need to be smelted and Logs that need to be cut down into boards.
Some issues we found include:
- Once in a while Chat will stop working - Known issue but since it doesn't happen all the time it's hard to track down.
- Servers will crash from time to time if no one has used them in a while. Again known issue with the framework but hard to track down since conditions have to be just right for it to happen.
- Some jitter in movement - Will be worked on and corrected.
- Bug with Minimizing the Client Window - Avatars start to take on the texture of the ground they are standing on. - Again Known issue and a fix will be forth coming
- Some other small low priority issues that will be worked on through out Alpha
Really so far we haven't found any major show stopping bugs that would require our attention before our Pre-Alpha Release. Testing will continue however as we gear up for our Pre-Alpha Launch. Jason will make the announcement on our forum once we are ready.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Nope- You are incorrect.
Its my understanding Greed Monger lost its actual 'game forum' here but discussion is still allowed. Granted, someone will probably end up sued but hey... Appleton takes his lawsuits very, very seriously.
Jason hasn't once said anything in this thread... We have been pretty mature about how we conduct our selves here. It seems the only ones bringing up anything about lawsuits isn't us now... No one is being sued... No lawsuits are going to be filed... So please let's keep things on topic and mature... Thanks.
As for an update... We are having alot of fun testing. Things are really starting to look like a game now that we have combat and resource gathering in. March 15th when we get our Voxel Terrain on the Server is going to be huge for us.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Why aren't you guys posting game updates in your official forums also? That's where your main supporters are located. To an outsider, the sparse developer communication in those forums causes your game appear dead. It also seems you only respond if someone complains.
Be proactive and put information out in regular scheduled intervals. The people there that donated money to your kickstarter will appreciate it.
All of the updates I've posted here have first been posted to our forum. It's in a section that might be available to Signed in Members only though. Most of the updates have also been posted to our Official Facebook account. As for KickStarter Backer updates like I've said I had nothing to do with creating that KickStarter campaign and as a result I am not able to post updates on the KickStarter Page or send a email out to all of the backers through kickstarter.
When I post here I have to wait until some one else have posted something about our Game. Developers aren't allowed to create threads to post updates about their games. However they can post updates if someone else first created the thread in response to the thread that was started.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Interesting...I guess you have not yet read this thread http://www.greedmonger.com/forum/showthread.php?1939-Billy-Bolts-Press-Release&p=28772#post28772 in which the backers are disgusted regarding a Press release for a new "Electric Crow" game while they are still nearly in the dark. A few of the multi Thousand dollar backers also not seeming very happy about the communication and updates.
http://www.greedmonger.com/forum/showthread.php?1229-GM-T-Shirts-Being-designed-now!&p=28773#post28773 here is another gem from the forum- People still have not received their T Shirts , you said they would be sent out soon and 2 months later this person comments
"How far away is soon? 2 months after your posting... Still nothing seems to happen. Could you please send them out? The garage shouldn't be too far away... "
But hey he only gave you guys a cool Thousand Dollars- cannot expect Jason Appleton to actually walk to the garage and throw something in the mail.
Nope- I have changed my mind even regarding you- At this point I think you are well aware of the scam nature of this project and the general charater of Mr Appleton and yet you come here and make what looks to me like blatant dishonest comments.
Oh well, pre Alpha in a few days right (according to the press release for the other 'Electric Crow" game.
Every screen shot I've see for this game is either purchased assets still rendered in max or blender or just using Unity or hero's default models assets. The screen shots of the girl standing there with a weapon is the ready made model from Heroengine, anyone can spend 199 bucks log into a hosted hero server and take that screenshot. The other screen shots appear to be made in Unity with some asset store models, again anyone could set that up in hour. He switch back and forth a couple of times between engines. My guess is that Heroengine proved to difficult to work with (uses its own scripting language) and is actually a pretty complex environment. Unity supports c#, java and its own language much easier to develop in.
I haven't seen anything original yet.
I'm really not sure where to begin here... Yes I am aware of both of those threads. The first Thread I have even personally responded to. It really amazes me how anyone could be upset over a Project our Company was involved in that had completely nothing to do with the GM Team other then Jason as the Company owner organizing it. There are alot of Companies that consists of multiple Teams all working on different Projects and you don't see people yelling and getting angry at those Companies. No one was pulled off of Greed Monger to work on Billy Bolts. And as far as I know there was completely no funding from Greed Monger used in the making of Billy Bolts. So why does it matter that our Company Owner organized another Team to work on a 2nd Project?
The issue with the Shirts IS an issue Jason needs to address and he will address it in his time. It is NOT my place to force him to address it. He is MY boss... I am NOT HIS boss.
What dishonest Comments have I made here? Going through all my posts here in this thread I don't see any. Maybe you could get every ounce of Information I have and then point out where my dishonest comments are? That would really be great. Thanks!
Company Owner
MMO Interactive