Originally posted by eyelolled does no grinding imply that there is no reward for people that put extensive hours in to the game? (uber gear)
No. Getting uber gear will still be a time sink. The mats to temper gear rely on RNG to drop and you need multiples of them to improve gear without failure destroying the item.
Originally posted by laokoko Just wait till you started crafting legendary item and failed 100 times. Or do the same dungeon 100 times for max stats gear.
According to Zenimax, max stat gear is obtained via crafting. Not dungeons. Can't say more about the legendaries without breaking NDA.
And items have a chance to break while crafting? And an item could have various stats range?
So based on these comments, I guess the only solution is to eliminate quests entirely from mmo's because no matter what it still revolves around talking to SOMEONE or doing SOMETHING (which means grind), and also eliminate mobs from mmo's since we shouldn't have to kill things to level up (GRIND).
So, let's institute a policy of just standing there on screen results in constant xp gain and level ups - since literally everything else is a grind and we don't want that right? Damn even that sounds like a grind. Let's eliminate all games!!! Only solution!!
most of these guys here complaining want a skill level system like star wars galaxies and a sandbox world that they do not quest in at all just play with lego's all day. I prefer random NPCs running up to me asking me for help or going exploring and finding a treasure map or item that starts a chain of events. I think if that cannot make some of these guys happy nothing will.
How do you ascertain that they are random NPCs ?
Some of the best MMORPGs I have played are those where if you go out of town or at least off the path you are in real danger from other players or mobs. Run away and you potentially get into a lot more trouble because of aggro. When they reduce the consequences of your action to using a res stone that are ten a penny and a small amount of cash for repairs it ruins any real suspense.
Endurance is a skill to be mastered.
It is a different kind of endurance required num locking from quest market to quest marker through lands with little or no danger or risk.
It seems to me that a simple solution is to make it dangerous to go off the path and hard to stay on it with a longer journey. MMORPG worlds dont feel linear to me if I can get to places ..it is just very hard to do so if I am not a high enough level and the cost is too great for me to want to incur it too often.
They did away with a lot of danger and variety when they accommodated the PVE whiners that want to play a warrior with badass weps and armour but they cry if they get interrupted doing a quest by someone wanting to PK them.
There is usually something efficient you can do if you are being beaten up and game developers can make it more costly to pk other players in certain zones so it doesnt become a huge problem. Has anyone tried a wow fatigue type mechanism operating over a longer period of time so players can only stay in certain zones for a relatively small amount of time before they have to rest outside that zone for a few days or so to recharge ?
Grinding fits quite nicely into this set up because finding and holding a good grind spot may make a difference in keeping you levelling and relatively safe while you get over some level hump to make your character strong enough to deal with certain threats. It can also be very relaxing.
According to Zenimax, max stat gear is obtained via crafting. Not dungeons.
Which doesn't mean that the components for those items aren't obtained via dungeons.
I certainly hope you have to actually go and kill a dragon to get dragon scales and not that you find a sleeping dragon in the wilds that 1000000000000 people can "harvest" unlimited scales from.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Preferably quests that involve some type of risk, or at least brain activity... leisurely walking across the country side to the next 'click' waypoint (or 3) is just so monotonous.
So what mmo is it you're playing that is providing the questing you find acceptable and enjoyable?
The Secret World.
Just to illustrate the point:
Last night I was on part of a quest where I had to open two doors; an inner door and an outer door, both using the same sets of keys through different doorways. The problem was, if you remove the keys from one door it causes it to close before you can open the other door. To keep the doors open you needed to short the circuit box, but to short the circuit box you needed an item that was behind a locked door. To enter the locked door you needed to find the keycode. Once you had the item you had to open one door, short the circuit box, retrieve the keys, run to the other door and unlock that, short the circuit box for that one, step between the two doors before the outer closes, the second circuit box comes online and the inner door opens, allowing you access.
On the Elder Scrolls I had to open a door with two 'spirit fires'. To do this I had to go to one area, light a fire, speak to a spirit and lead it to the spirit fire. Then I would do the same again for the second fire. Voila, door open.
See the difference? One makes you think, the other has you follow arrows to pointers.
Preferably quests that involve some type of risk, or at least brain activity... leisurely walking across the country side to the next 'click' waypoint (or 3) is just so monotonous.
So what mmo is it you're playing that is providing the questing you find acceptable and enjoyable?
The Secret World.
I second this.
Sure, you have generic quest now and then, but the sabotage missions and especially investigative missions are just the very best examples of quest in the entire genre. Period.
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No. Getting uber gear will still be a time sink. The mats to temper gear rely on RNG to drop and you need multiples of them to improve gear without failure destroying the item.
And items have a chance to break while crafting? And an item could have various stats range?
How do you ascertain that they are random NPCs ?
Some of the best MMORPGs I have played are those where if you go out of town or at least off the path you are in real danger from other players or mobs. Run away and you potentially get into a lot more trouble because of aggro. When they reduce the consequences of your action to using a res stone that are ten a penny and a small amount of cash for repairs it ruins any real suspense.
Endurance is a skill to be mastered.
It is a different kind of endurance required num locking from quest market to quest marker through lands with little or no danger or risk.
It seems to me that a simple solution is to make it dangerous to go off the path and hard to stay on it with a longer journey. MMORPG worlds dont feel linear to me if I can get to places ..it is just very hard to do so if I am not a high enough level and the cost is too great for me to want to incur it too often.
They did away with a lot of danger and variety when they accommodated the PVE whiners that want to play a warrior with badass weps and armour but they cry if they get interrupted doing a quest by someone wanting to PK them.
There is usually something efficient you can do if you are being beaten up and game developers can make it more costly to pk other players in certain zones so it doesnt become a huge problem. Has anyone tried a wow fatigue type mechanism operating over a longer period of time so players can only stay in certain zones for a relatively small amount of time before they have to rest outside that zone for a few days or so to recharge ?
Grinding fits quite nicely into this set up because finding and holding a good grind spot may make a difference in keeping you levelling and relatively safe while you get over some level hump to make your character strong enough to deal with certain threats. It can also be very relaxing.
Which doesn't mean that the components for those items aren't obtained via dungeons.
I certainly hope you have to actually go and kill a dragon to get dragon scales and not that you find a sleeping dragon in the wilds that 1000000000000 people can "harvest" unlimited scales from.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
The Secret World.
Just to illustrate the point:
Last night I was on part of a quest where I had to open two doors; an inner door and an outer door, both using the same sets of keys through different doorways. The problem was, if you remove the keys from one door it causes it to close before you can open the other door. To keep the doors open you needed to short the circuit box, but to short the circuit box you needed an item that was behind a locked door. To enter the locked door you needed to find the keycode. Once you had the item you had to open one door, short the circuit box, retrieve the keys, run to the other door and unlock that, short the circuit box for that one, step between the two doors before the outer closes, the second circuit box comes online and the inner door opens, allowing you access.
On the Elder Scrolls I had to open a door with two 'spirit fires'. To do this I had to go to one area, light a fire, speak to a spirit and lead it to the spirit fire. Then I would do the same again for the second fire. Voila, door open.
See the difference? One makes you think, the other has you follow arrows to pointers.
I second this.
Sure, you have generic quest now and then, but the sabotage missions and especially investigative missions are just the very best examples of quest in the entire genre. Period.
well its better that last years crap and better than guild wars2 or STOR or the secret world.
I played the game 3 caracters till level 7 and they say the first 10 is not good and I enjoyed it.
nobody has to buy it at least I know I have something to play till destiny comes,still got my ps3.