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i checke dout its kickastarter and let me get this straight.
archeageking
Member Posts: 88
so brad let me get this straight you screwed up vanguard, ( i bought vangaurd collector's edition back then played for 2 months and quit at the time) wasted 30 million dollars from investors. You come here and ask us the players for money to fund your vanguard #2? What do you think we are stupid?
Hows that vanguard working out for you back at soe huh?
You think we are stupid or something? I have to admit you got balls showing your face to the gaming industry again.
By the way You cant even make a quality product liek vanguard with 30 million dollars, how are you going to make quality product with 800,000 dollars. REALLY? last time i check im not the one smoking some weed.
Comments
Yeah because no one ever makes mistakes, and God forbid they do, they certainly don't get second chances!!!
**rolls eyes**
Especially when that same person was one of THEE key people responsible for the MMO that arguably set the stage for the entire genre. People like to forget that. I guess 'cause it's easier to only focus on the negative, and these people have clearly never made big mistakes in their lives.
The problems with VG are well known, and even Brad has come out and acknowledged them. They tried to do too much, too soon, and it came back to bite them in the ass. Anyone who's played VG will agree, it's a freaking huge game, with tons of content, explorable areas, involved and in-depth game systems (crafting and of course diplomacy are both quite involved). The number of races. The number of classes.
He and the team at Sigil over-reached. They tried to make a game intended to compete directly with WoW, which is always a losing proposition. They've since accepted and acknowledged that.
If people would ease up on the knee-jerk reactions, take the time read into it, watch the videos and actually learn something about Pantheon, they'd see that they're taking a very different approach. They're staying more focused. The'yre targeting a specific portion of the player-base - those who long for a return to old-school principles. They're not trying to do everything at once for launch, as they did with VG. They are not trying to be "everything to everyone" as they did with VG.
I would fully understand - and even agree with - all the outrage if he'd come out and said "Yeah, well things didn't go well with Vanguard, but we've decided to try and do the same thing all over again". That would be obnoxious.
However - and the OP either hasn't realized this, or are being willfully ignorant of it - that's not what they're doing. They're not trying to create "Vanguard #2" (as the OP put it). And frankly, the OP has nothing straight - other than that VG was a mess.... something no one denies... including the people who created it.
I guess in the OP's world (and others) people are never allowed to make mistakes, and if they do, they are never to be forgiven for them. Ever. They're not to be given another chance. Ever. The game came out 7 years ago, and people are still acting as though it just happened. It's ridiculous at this point.
It's like a bunch of people just standing in front of Brad, screaming the same thing in his face over and over.
Person: "You screwed up with VG!!!!!"
Brad: "yes, we screwed up with VG. I agree. We did many things wrong and it didn't work out. This is a different game and a different approach, though"
Person "YOU SCREWED UP WITH VG!!!!"
Brad: "Yes, we over-reached. We tried to throw everything and the kitchen sink at the game in VG and were clearly in over our heads"
Person: "VANGUARD WAS A COMPLETE FAILURE BECAUSE OF YOU!!!!"
Brad: "Yes. I was definitely one of the people responsible. Absolutely"
Person: "YOU!!!! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!! YOU YOU YOU!!!!"
Brad: "Yes, I agree. I definitely deserve blame for Vanguard. No argument"
Person: "YOU SCREWED UP VANGUARD AND NOW YOU WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER GAME!!!! YOU!!!!"
And so on...
It's ridiculous.
People will be at his funeral decades down the road, screaming "HE SCREWED UP VANGUARD!!! IT WAS ALL HIS FAULT!!!" (obvious hyperbole, but you get the point).
This is so funny... There's a ridiculous amount of haters...
Even though Vanguard wasn't even close to the best of releases, I have to agree with Brad's tweet after the decision from Smed to cancel Vanguard completely.
https://twitter.com/Aradune/status/426866316394258432
Who knew?
Now we have the chance to get another game that is as hardcore and challenging as the two was, who can say no to that?
Call the waaaaaambulance.
So Brad can't make a quality product huh?
Wait WHO MADE EVERQUEST AGAIN?
That's what I thought.....
Are you sure?
You didn't quite convince me there............
I haven't backed Pantheon, but I'd much rather back an mmorpg project where the leader has failed hard, sold out to a big company and realized how terrible their decisions were and how those decisions went on to make mmorp's worse because of it. I think that person has more of an understanding how a real mmorp should be. They've (not the Pantheon people) hit bottom before, are older, more experienced, more professional, lost those huge egos, and have an understanding what was great about their first mmorps success and the mistakes made....Than to back someone making an mmorp with huge egos, terrible aattitudes, no experiences ever in making an mmorp, promising things they can't deliver, and coming back time and again begging for more money because they're so inexperienced they don't know how things work, they've ran into so many problems an experienced person would have known about.
That said, the original video pitch for Pantheon was pathetic, and lacked any enthusiasm whatsoever, with their boring scripted sales pitch. I haven't been sold on the game yet.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If the video pitch didn't do it for you, then maybe checkout Boogie's interview if you haven't seen it. I think it makes it pretty clear what they are trying to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45XrbsBt34c
I'm not sure what the problem is here. Vanguard was an amazing game.
My gaming top 3.
1. Everquest
2. WoW
3. Vanguard
All vastly different games and all very amazing in their own right. Seeing as how Brad had a hand in two of those, I think he has every right to come back to the gaming industry and make another.
Besides, it's what the people want.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
30 million dollar mistake..
That is one expensive mistake.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Aye, I watched it the other day. It does lean me a bit toward backing it just for the fact that it's old school mmorpg. That is the single and only reason so far for me to back the game.
We old school mmorpg'ers have not just died out, we're still here and we still need/want the old school mmorpg's we love to play, they just don't make em for us these days. It's themeparks for the kiddies/teens/casual players.
I'm waiting for something from Pantheon to make me excited about it enough to pledge still. In the end I may have to just give in and just pledge just for the idea of having an old school mmorpg to play again. I'm in the undecided category atm I guess you would say.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If you spend a lot of money, INFORM YOURSELF WHAT YOU ARE BUYING !!!!
Seriously, does this really need to be said explicitly ?!? It sounds so obvious to me.
But really, you really cant blame anyone else but yourself on this. That Vanguard was unfinished was no secret at all.
Besides, I bougth collector edition too and I played it for 7 years (with a pause). Guess what, I was knowing what I was getting into ! Because, you know, I informed myself before I spent money !
For the same reason I didnt spend money on, lets say, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, etc etc etc.
Also, the collector edition wasnt that expensive in the first place, anyway. No game is, compared to hardware, or internet connection.
Well, then people need to be aware they are buying a promise of something 3 years from now in the case of Kickstarter. That's it. You aren't buying anything else and there is a possibility you can lose all the money you put it in. There is no finished product right now you are buying with the Kickstarter and even if it succeeds you likely won't get anything tangible (except maybe forum access) for years.
Vanguard didn't exactly have great box sales either. Most of the people were well aware of what they would be buying and didn't purchase it. Many people who didn't research the game didn't continue to sub to the game due to issues.
7 years ago game media wasn't as prominent as it was now and the switch over from paper game media (mags like PC Gamer) to digital was just really starting to happen so adequate means of researching the game wasn't readily available without trying it out or buying into a gaming magazine.