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Eso a dumbed down 5 button game, ID rather log into _ _ _.

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  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 594

    Hmmm Oblivion and Skyrim didn't have any hotbar or buttons, you had to switch weapon/skill.

    So, what's the point of this thread? That TESO isn't TESish? wrong

    That isn't the traditional 400 buttons MMO? Thanks god

    If you aren't interested, excellent. But doesn't mean this is a console port just because you don't know what you are talking about

  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 594
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by WarWitch

    What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought  mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of ......    

    If I will not buy and play it - which will very likely happen - will be exactly because of this SILLY BUTTON MASHING limit with 5 buttons. If I would be happy with 5 buttons would stay on PS or XBox. Sole reason lost all wish to continue to play TSW.

    TESO has 6 skills on hotbar + block+  left button (light and heavy) and you get another 6 attacks at lvl 15

    A lot more than you probably use in other MMOs even if they  have 200 hotbars

     

     

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Enjoy whatever cartoon you choose to play OP. ;)

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 450
    Originally posted by quixadhal
    Originally posted by skyline385
    Originally posted by tristanryan
    Originally posted by osc8r

    How many of your ranged attacks and abilities require a target before you can use them?

    How many of your ranged attacks and abilities DON'T auto home?

    Sadly it's nothing like a shooter, just more of the same old same old.

     

    I am so happy to see this issue brought up because i have searched high and low for a discussion on this. I don't know what this system is called but i am not happy one bit.

    Ive been wanting to comment on this are we allowed to talk about it (nda)?

     

    I was extremely disappointed minutes into game when a mob cast magic at me, i dodged, and the magic literally turned 90 degrees followed me and hit me. I sat there for a minute after killing the creature while my mind processed my disappointment.

    Then you might have stopped playing each and every Tab based MMO as well. I cannot understand how people can come up with the auto lock argument everytime when MMOs have been doing this for all eternity. Melee combat has no lock and is full free form. Ranged combat requires it and it has. Only other alternative would be to make all ranged attacks huge AoEs like Wildstar. Even Tera uses auto target detection on some ranged attacks while rest are AoEs. The auto attacks without locks are instant and just high speed projectiles.

    Can I have some of the kool-aid you're drinking?

     

    In what dream world do ranged attacks *require* target locking?  They certainly do not, and the idea is crazy.  Have you ever fired a ranged weapon in real life?  Did you get a nice target lock to help you aim?  I know I didn't.  The best I can hope for is a laser dot to tell me where the projectile is going to strike (provided wind doesn't change it's course too much). 

    It's called balance. Without soft lock, ranged attacks would be far to easy to dodge. As it is, they CAN be dodged, but it isn't as easy as just taking one step to the left or right.

  • kilunkilun Member UncommonPosts: 745
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by kilun
    Originally posted by Squeak69

    i understand people arguments for less abilities but, i ahve a major issue with it. 

    if the game gives me 15 abilities each of which are still usefull to me i would like the option to use those abilites when i want to. giveing me said 15 abilities ( im useing a general number here just for reference) but says i can only use 5 or even 10 with weapon swapping still means there are 5 i cant use, THAT PISSES ME OFF.

    im sorry but if you wanted me to only be able to use a set number of abilites then only GIVE me a set number of abilites that i can actully learn. im sick of games that go you can have 100 diffrent abilites learned by your charecter but you can only use 5 of them i hated it in guild wars and i still hate it here.

    so to make it simple if i have a abilit learned on a charecter i should be able to use it whenever i want. if the game dousnt want that kind of thing dont let me learn so many abilites then block it behind limited hotbat slots. i fial to understand why people are cool with this its the dumbest thing i ever heard.

     

    Name me 15 different abilities.  For four different classes.  So list sixty.

    is the NDA fully lifted?

    screw it i dont care, to be honest i dont rember them all.

    but lets see per class you got 3 trees and 5 skill in each tree all these skill are activated not passive, the passive skill are seperate, 

    thats 15 on its own not counting weapons each of which has the same set up, and with weapon swapping that brings you to a total of 25 activateable abilites, per class, unless of course your swapped weapon is the exact same weapon which most people will do cause they will need the hotbr slots.

    ost of these abilites each serve a difretn purpose and or pull from mana or stamina seperately, so there are no real skills you would WANT to not use and at the rate you get skill points nake you easly get most of them and we arnt even able to get to high levels yet.

    but whatever im apprently the only one who dousnt like being restricted so im done with all of this you will all just continue to tell me im stupid or a fool for not happily accepting this kind of restriction put needlesly on you, and will happily call it a good thing so enjoy i wish ya the best of luck and fun.

     

    P.S. if i rember right its 6 weapon styles so with that 30 activateble abilites, for all classes and then 15 for the class so 45 activateble abilites in total you CAN learn on one char although that would be silly to be honest.

    That is not what I meant.  I meant name me 15 skills for four classes, make them up.  Whatever they do.  You will see that they nearly all are redundant.   This is to counter the idea that having 4 bars chock full of abilities whatever is absolutely pointless to many.  You can make them up and we can see which classes have the same type of abilities, then we can boil it down to a chart to see actually how many different abilities are really present, then we can debate over which abilities are redundant to since we all have varying degrees of what is redundant.

    Basically:

    Single Target, Single Target DoT, AoE, AoE DoT, Summoning Creature, Controlling creature (be defensive or offensive), Debuff Single, Debuff AoE, Heal, Heal Area, Heal oT, Remove Debuff, Snare, Stun, Knockdown, Positional Attack, Positional Debuff, Positional AoE, Buff, AoE Buff, Return to "X".

    Probably missed a couple but really we have less than 30 abilities that are different unless you adjust damage scale on timers.  Once that get settles, people find out the most DPS/HPS and get a rotation which normally is 3-4 skills.  

  • oldboygameroldboygamer Member Posts: 139

    Personally I liked the simplicity of the UI in ESO, and less buttons to hit is the way forward in my opinion, with LOTRO streamlining their hotbars and skills, WoW about to do the same, hundreds of skill options which essentially do one of four things, damage, buff, debuff or heal is a waste of space on the UI.

    I think what we are all looking for is not more skills, but more combos. AoC had some great combos set up by different ordering of attack skills, which I'd like to see again (in a better game).

  • 1442214422 Member Posts: 2

    The low amount of skills available at a time in my opinion is not enough for the possible situations the game offers and it's the only thing holding be of buying the game. At least I experienced this as a healer. Neither the PvE or PvP content required any brain activity in order to succeed.

    With my network of friends and relatives I have heard and personally experiences only negative effects from Lotro and WoW dummifying the skill systems. No matter what "positive" effects are written about this trend, the dying guilds and forcing a game to work on a simple controlled is enough for me to make this change just an insane way of making more money and forgetting the players who prefer skill over button smashing on couch. Neither do I like the fact that because of consoles, features such as graphics and collision calculation cannot achieve their true potential.

    But are players looking for complexity the majority to choose the next trend? Unfortunately no. Does Zenimax care about real MMORPG gamers over "ca$huals"? Nope.

    Result = The old majority, the current minority of us will skip the game. At least I don't want to support dummification.

    Bye :)

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    I don't like having a small selection of skills in a game, but Everquest (one of my favorite MMOs) limited you to 8 spells and only a certain number of combat slots when it first came out.  You have to pick from a large list of abilities depending on what you found most useful.  I don't think this is a bad thing as it will have different people choosing different abilities for their 5 available slots based on what they like.  it does get a little annoying managing 20 to 30 abilities at the same time.  I believe WoW requires most people to use add ons in raids (I don't play it anymore) because they have too many hotbars/hotkeys available.
  • oldboygameroldboygamer Member Posts: 139
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    I don't like having a small selection of skills in a game, but Everquest (one of my favorite MMOs) limited you to 8 spells and only a certain number of combat slots when it first came out.  You have to pick from a large list of abilities depending on what you found most useful.  I don't think this is a bad thing as it will have different people choosing different abilities for their 5 available slots based on what they like.  it does get a little annoying managing 20 to 30 abilities at the same time.  I believe WoW requires most people to use add ons in raids (I don't play it anymore) because they have too many hotbars/hotkeys available.

     

     

    Never had any problems with being limited to an 8 slot hotbar in Everquest, and although there were many skills/spells to choose from most were just upgrades of previous low level skills/spells and no use once you'd levelled.

     

    It makes me wonder how we ever got into massive hotbars of numerous skills in the first place, since the greatest mmo of all time UO never had a hotbar. It's a shame everyone (included that clone WoW) copied Everquest and not UO.

     

    These are supposed to be RPGs, the skill used to derive from the planning and tactics and knowing the game well, not hitting buttons in the right combinations from memory, that's not skill. Now it's all about the hotbars and not about the experience.

     

    I don't mind if it puts of the peopkle who think understanding a character and successful raiding is about memorising a hotbar skill set.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,839
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Complexity =/= depth.

    More buttons != more complex.

    More complex != more interesting.

    More complex != harder. (Don't talk to me about NP-Hard problems)

    Simple doesn't mean easy. (Don't people's parents teach this?  Mine did.)

    Elegance is harder than complexity.  Far far far harder

     

    Complexity is a crutch for poor designers.

    I must agree with this.  I now stay away from games the require an excel spread sheet and side programs to tell you what the current best stats are for you to be at your best.  It's still just a game and the object of a game is entertainment which translates into fun factor.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    Originally posted by WarWitch

    What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought  mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.

    5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.

    Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.

    EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.

    Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.

    The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.     

    * Whacks Warwitch with his walker * 

    Back Back to your retirement home.. nobody cares what old people think !

    Sheesh that was close, we caught this one before he got behind the wheel of a car.

  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,634
    heh i see she/he/it did not come back at any time in this thread started saying any other reasoning behind what they said or to back up anything thats been brought up. Oh well I was right in my first reply before it was edited by a mod. Some people just love to start drama on here and have no intention of even being part of a conversation. 
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,911
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Complexity =/= depth.

    More buttons != more complex.

    More complex != more interesting.

    More complex != harder. (Don't talk to me about NP-Hard problems)

    Simple doesn't mean easy. (Don't people's parents teach this?  Mine did.)

    Elegance is harder than complexity.  Far far far harder

     

    Complexity is a crutch for poor designers.

    Even if their parents didn't teach it, Mark Twain and Kurt Vonnegut would have.

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Complexity =/= depth.

    More buttons != more complex.

    More complex != more interesting.

    More complex != harder. (Don't talk to me about NP-Hard problems)

    Simple doesn't mean easy. (Don't people's parents teach this?  Mine did.)

    Elegance is harder than complexity.  Far far far harder

     

    Complexity is a crutch for poor designers.

    Even if their parents didn't teach it, Mark Twain and Kurt Vonnegut would have.

    Say what ?

    You'll probably be horribly mistaken if you think today's average kid reads books !

    Do you have any idea how long that takes ? image

     

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,911
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Complexity =/= depth.

    More buttons != more complex.

    More complex != more interesting.

    More complex != harder. (Don't talk to me about NP-Hard problems)

    Simple doesn't mean easy. (Don't people's parents teach this?  Mine did.)

    Elegance is harder than complexity.  Far far far harder

     

    Complexity is a crutch for poor designers.

    Even if their parents didn't teach it, Mark Twain and Kurt Vonnegut would have.

    Say what ?

    You'll probably be horribly mistaken if you think today's average kid reads books !

    Do you have any idea how long that takes ? image

     

    My daughter is 15 and she does constantly... gotta raise them right image

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by oldboygamer
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    I don't like having a small selection of skills in a game, but Everquest (one of my favorite MMOs) limited you to 8 spells and only a certain number of combat slots when it first came out.  You have to pick from a large list of abilities depending on what you found most useful.  I don't think this is a bad thing as it will have different people choosing different abilities for their 5 available slots based on what they like.  it does get a little annoying managing 20 to 30 abilities at the same time.  I believe WoW requires most people to use add ons in raids (I don't play it anymore) because they have too many hotbars/hotkeys available.

     

     

    Never had any problems with being limited to an 8 slot hotbar in Everquest, and although there were many skills/spells to choose from most were just upgrades of previous low level skills/spells and no use once you'd levelled.

     

    It makes me wonder how we ever got into massive hotbars of numerous skills in the first place, since the greatest mmo of all time UO never had a hotbar. It's a shame everyone (included that clone WoW) copied Everquest and not UO.

     

    These are supposed to be RPGs, the skill used to derive from the planning and tactics and knowing the game well, not hitting buttons in the right combinations from memory, that's not skill. Now it's all about the hotbars and not about the experience.

     

    I don't mind if it puts of the peopkle who think understanding a character and successful raiding is about memorising a hotbar skill set.

    I liked UO and I don't mind having a lot of abilities choose from, but I do mind having 20+ skills available to click at once.  5-10 is more then enough and actually promotes having to make difficult choices of what you want in your abilities bar.  I think I prefer EQ to UO, but I did enjoy UO a fair amount.  UO had a lot of button mashing like Diablo if I recall though.  In EQ you usually had to execute your abilities at the right time.

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Member UncommonPosts: 599

    I love the over-reaction when someone isn't happy with limited skill choices. We immediately go to 10 bars and that wow screen. Like there isn't anything sane in-between.

     

    But the history of games for the past 20 years is games start out more complex and get easier, marketing believes it allows more people into gaming. In some cases that is correct, in others they are chasing people that don't want to play games and don't like games or even that people play games. They are anti-game. But they fight to make them happy and forget those that spend 1000's a year.

  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Member UncommonPosts: 179
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal
    You have this free to play attitude, and its getting annoying, I want it back to the old days when we have all the subs back!!!! 

     This will drive out the people who ruin communitys!! This is a fact.

    Hear! Hear!  

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,136
    I agree with a lot of comments in this thread. I actually like that we don't have way too many skills in the UI that were worthless (thinking SWTOR, RIFT and WOW). I also like that unlike Skyrim, there is just enough buttons including the quickslots so there is no need for example to pause like in Skyrim...especially with the weapons swapping at level 15. I actually liked Skyrim combat, but to me it did break immersion needing to continuously pause to change abilities, shouts, drink a potion, etc. Not an issue in this game.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • MoLoK_MoLoK_ Member UncommonPosts: 307

    Strange thread.

     

    And no ( I know some have pointed this out already), it's not a five button game. This is NOT NDA breaking. It's all in the different recent media coverages.

     

    Universal skills:

    Light attack - Fast click LMB

    Heavy Attack - Long click LMB

    Interrupt (includes a CC) - Click both MB

    Block (can include a CC) - Hold RMB

    Dodge*4 - Double tap WASD

    Sprint - Shift

    Then theres some kind of channeled skill with some weapons iirc = Hold LMB

    = 6 (7)

    Why do I consider sprint to be a skill? Well... we do count the rogue skill Sprint in WoW to be one right?

     

    Then you have 5+1+5+1 slots on your actionbar.

    = 12

     

    In total ESO has 18(19) active skills.

     

    If you rather wanna know how many buttons you will be able to press then the number goes up to around 25 (quickslot + dodge*4 etc)

     

  • NL-RikkertNL-Rikkert Member UncommonPosts: 132

    Eso a dumbed down 5 button game, ID rather log into _ _ _.

    Why don't you just actually go do the latter half of that sentence and enjoy yourself?

    Obvious troll is obvious...

    I find it odd that people have to whine about stuff they don't like, instead of doing what they do like...

    STOOPID
    When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 2,929

    When GW2 came out with 10 skills people complained it was dumbed down. Now these same people think ESO is complicated with 5 skills - I don't get it.

     

    And don't say it is ESO, so it is obviously more complicated, because the game has been designed with consoles in mind. So it has to be simple to deal with the simple controllers.

     

    ESO is dumbed down, like it or not. Not saying it is bad, just stating facts.

     

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • DeddmeatDeddmeat Member UncommonPosts: 385

    So it's safe to say that all the people moaning and hating on the game, bitching about sub fee and it's not worth that, I'll never play it etc etc .. WILL be logging in on all the future betas ?

    image

  • yuri330yuri330 Member UncommonPosts: 24

    I remember playing WoW and having to deal with 40 different macros and having to use skil bar addons to avoid clutter.

     

    And then I remember Guild Wars 1 (not the bane of my existance that is 2), that game focused on people being fucking smart and making a skill build that worked together, pretty much like building a deck in say Magic The Gathering.

     

    Now that's what I liked, only 8 skills but having to chose from a pool of like 400 of them to make something up that worked better than the others.

     

    Now ESO doesn't have nearly as many skills but it kinda reminds me of Guild Wars 1, on top of the action combat I feel like I'm gonna have a good time in PvP.

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by WarWitch

    What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought  mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.

    5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.

    Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.

    EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.

    Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.

    The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.     

    This is a shooter combat game how could you have 30+ skills and still use the mouse to attack?

    Also the skill cap in this type of game blows and 30+ skill tab targeting game out the water, you have to aim to hit, beside what elders scroll game have you played with 30+ buttons? 

    Fist, its not a shooter.  Its Softlock Targeting.  You must put your reticle on the target but once you press a skill button your locked onto the target unless they run out of LOS.

     

    You can clearly see this in every single preview that has come out.

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