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Storyline quest have no place in MMORPGS.

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Comments

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303

    I couldn't disagree more.

     

    I don't play single player RPGs much because I like having a community.  SWTOR had the best leveling experience of any MMO I've played.  It just sucked once you got to the level cap.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

     

    I don't play single player RPGs much because I like having a community.  SWTOR had the best leveling experience of any MMO I've played.  It just sucked once you got to the level cap.

    Actually I think SWTOR is a good example of why MMOs shouldn't focus too much on story. Sure the story quests in that were pretty well done but it came at the cost of the rest of the game and most people blew through the story in weeks and then uninstalled. Fine in a single player RPG. Not fine in an MMO.

     

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs

    All the point of MMO is that YOU make YOUR story.

     

    Today MMO designers , simply dont get it... and we have the results

    At least we're having a step forward to those kill 5 boars and pick up 5 flower quest.

    And having to click an npc and watch a movie is a better replacement?

    I don't see this a step forward, quite a contrary.

     

    Yes click on an npc and watch a movie is a better replacement.

    I think someone else already mention what I want to say.  

    I don't mind "removing" those quest and replace them for more multiplayer content.  But I really dont' want to do another kill 5 pickup 5 thing quest.

  • YearofthesquidYearofthesquid Member Posts: 5
    Originally posted by jackblit

    All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.

     

    I so wish we could have a game that used the EQ1 quest system that every quest was just a repeatable turn in quest.

    Speak for yourself on this one because I do not completely agree. 

    Story does belong in MMORPGs in fact its part of its very nature. Role playing game means a game to which a role is played. A story helps direct that 'role' and gives your character motive and purpose. The idea of everyone doing the same 'quest' of the story is indeed true, but like most role playing games its relying on you, the play in not meta-gaming these situations. 

    Meta-gaming in case you do not know is essentially you as a person 'knowing' and applying that knowledge to your character where they would not know. So, because you 'know' every player does the same quests, does not mean your 'character' whom you are role-playing does. Understand?

    So if you were playing WoW other players to your character aren't "that other sod that killed Princess in EW" It's its that other brave adventure that helped me bring Hogger to his knees within the Stockades. 

     

    The idea of their being repeating quests which are just turn-ins sounds like a very dull and lifeless world in my opinion. Sure EQ1 might of been a revelation back in the day, but a game can have all the back drop it wants in place, if you can't as a player feel heroic and go on adventures and see how those adventures help change the world you play in, then whats the point. You might as well just grind. 

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    I do agree that the story shouldnt be about making you some chosen one type hero but it doesnt mean I dont like having some sort of story at all.  I do think the story should make you feel like a hero or villain, just not "THE" hero or villain, only one of many heroes.
  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    Funny because in the GW2 story (spoiler alert)..

     

     

     

    You end up not being the hero - this guy Trahaerne steals all your thunder in the end. So you are kinda of the hero but not THE hero. And everyone kinda hates him and the end of that story line.

    Here is the problem for MMO developers..

    #1) Letting your players 'create their own story' leads to no story or just mindlessly killing things. My 'story' in EQ - I killed alot of stuff till I hit max level..

    #2) Any 'personal' story feels 'weird' because being thats it is an MMO usually you can't permanently change anything.

    In the very long run both of these problems are probably something that developers can fix. I can imagine a virtual world where you could make a difference. YOu would have  permadeath for the NPCs and  enough 'intelligence' in the game so that creating your own story would work. The personal story would spring from randomnly generated by semi-permanent NPCs

    You could say make friends with a local shopkeeper and end up slaying some dragon and marrying the shop keepers daughter. But you could have 'enough' NPCs in the world that everyone would have slightly different stories. Maybe another person meets a farmer - helps root out a local kobold colony and becomes mayor of a village. Your story would spring from the wants and needs of the NPC - and the game would dynamically generate 'new" NPCs with varying wants and needs..

    This kind of advancement though seems beyond current technology as not even the single player games are that sophisiticated yet.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,573
    Originally posted by Yearofthesquid
    Originally posted by jackblit

    All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.

     

    I so wish we could have a game that used the EQ1 quest system that every quest was just a repeatable turn in quest.

    Speak for yourself on this one because I do not completely agree. 

    Story does belong in MMORPGs in fact its part of its very nature. Role playing game means a game to which a role is played. A story helps direct that 'role' and gives your character motive and purpose. The idea of everyone doing the same 'quest' of the story is indeed true, but like most role playing games its relying on you, the play in not meta-gaming these situations. 

    Meta-gaming in case you do not know is essentially you as a person 'knowing' and applying that knowledge to your character where they would not know. So, because you 'know' every player does the same quests, does not mean your 'character' whom you are role-playing does. Understand?

    So if you were playing WoW other players to your character aren't "that other sod that killed Princess in EW" It's its that other brave adventure that helped me bring Hogger to his knees within the Stockades. 

     

    The idea of their being repeating quests which are just turn-ins sounds like a very dull and lifeless world in my opinion. Sure EQ1 might of been a revelation back in the day, but a game can have all the back drop it wants in place, if you can't as a player feel heroic and go on adventures and see how those adventures help change the world you play in, then whats the point. You might as well just grind. 

    I'm not a big fan of repeating quest "as I said before", but I'm not a big fan of quests in general.  I never needed a quest in an MMORPG to feel heroic.  In fact it was great because I could choose to be whatever I wanted to be.  I could be a dark elf necromancer who decided to do good deeds and kill the evil orcs of Kelethin.  I could choose to be an evil villain and go kill halfings or Qeynos guards.  There was no limit on what I could do.  I didn't need a quest to tell me what to do and what makes me heroic or not heroic.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,573
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Funny because in the GW2 story (spoiler alert)..

     

     

     

    You end up not being the hero - this guy Trahaerne steals all your thunder in the end. So you are kinda of the hero but not THE hero. And everyone kinda hates him and the end of that story line.

    Here is the problem for MMO developers..

    #1) Letting your players 'create their own story' leads to no story or just mindlessly killing things. My 'story' in EQ - I killed alot of stuff till I hit max level..

    #2) Any 'personal' story feels 'weird' because being thats it is an MMO usually you can't permanently change anything.

    In the very long run both of these problems are probably something that developers can fix. I can imagine a virtual world where you could make a difference. YOu would have  permadeath for the NPCs and  enough 'intelligence' in the game so that creating your own story would work. The personal story would spring from randomnly generated by semi-permanent NPCs

    You could say make friends with a local shopkeeper and end up slaying some dragon and marrying the shop keepers daughter. But you could have 'enough' NPCs in the world that everyone would have slightly different stories. Maybe another person meets a farmer - helps root out a local kobold colony and becomes mayor of a village. Your story would spring from the wants and needs of the NPC - and the game would dynamically generate 'new" NPCs with varying wants and needs..

    This kind of advancement though seems beyond current technology as not even the single player games are that sophisiticated yet.

    Maybe you just didn't have the imagination to come up with a good story or didn't have any strong feelings towards anything in the game.  I actually had lots of stories for my characters going on in my head while playing EQ.

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,898
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Here is the problem for MMO developers..

    #1) Letting your players 'create their own story' leads to no story or just mindlessly killing things. My 'story' in EQ - I killed alot of stuff till I hit max level..

    #2) Any 'personal' story feels 'weird' because being thats it is an MMO usually you can't permanently change anything.

    In the very long run both of these problems are probably something that developers can fix. I can imagine a virtual world where you could make a difference. YOu would have  permadeath for the NPCs and  enough 'intelligence' in the game so that creating your own story would work. The personal story would spring from randomnly generated by semi-permanent NPCs

    You could say make friends with a local shopkeeper and end up slaying some dragon and marrying the shop keepers daughter. But you could have 'enough' NPCs in the world that everyone would have slightly different stories. Maybe another person meets a farmer - helps root out a local kobold colony and becomes mayor of a village. Your story would spring from the wants and needs of the NPC - and the game would dynamically generate 'new" NPCs with varying wants and needs..

    This kind of advancement though seems beyond current technology as not even the single player games are that sophisiticated yet.

    Left aside the limit of current technology , it was the way of design that make storyline quest not go well with MMORPG.

     

    in RPG , the game world move around player , it exist for player alone.

    while in MMORPG . the game world not moving around players , it have it own life.

    When force design storyline quests on player which try to created the feel of "the world roll around you" ,it causing mess and lost the effect.

    Forced make the storyline weak in MMORPG

     

     

    Best way to created story in MMORPG is change the game world , when the world change and player join in , story are born.

    Like you said , the idea is have "smarter" PC that do all the creative work , but as you point out , it impossible with current technology.

    Only way to break the limit is use human manual change the game world , work behind scene control NPCs and create no repeat dynamic events which give life to game world.

    That's the idea , but it have problem that consume more fund , and humans staffs themself also a problem lol.

     

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,103


    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Originally posted by DamonVile

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs
    Just treat MMO instances as single player games, problem solved.
    Why bother? Single player games are MUCH better then MMOs at being single player games.
    because you can't do them multiplayer :)
    I think it because ... well ... a lots F2P MMORPG out here that ... well .. don't need to spend money to buy the games.
    Great point! I had not considered the "cheapskate" factor...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Niall18Niall18 Member Posts: 31
    Its more or less not that I care or don't care that Millions of other players are "The chosen one" its just my character & me are the best:P 

    Check out my Blog for MMO News, Rants & Fun!

    http://MMO-Elitist.blogger.com

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,769
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs

    Just treat MMO instances as single player games, problem solved.
    Why bother? Single player games are MUCH better then MMOs at being single player games.

     

     Because that will give me more "single player" games to choose from? Because some MMOs are good single player games?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,769
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

     

    I don't play single player RPGs much because I like having a community.  SWTOR had the best leveling experience of any MMO I've played.  It just sucked once you got to the level cap.

    Actually I think SWTOR is a good example of why MMOs shouldn't focus too much on story. Sure the story quests in that were pretty well done but it came at the cost of the rest of the game and most people blew through the story in weeks and then uninstalled. Fine in a single player RPG. Not fine in an MMO.

     

    Actually TOR is a good example of why MMO should focus on stories. $200M+ revenue a year ... that is a pretty good reason.

    Sure, TOR would have been a better game if it is made single player .. but it is still a big financial success as a MMO. So all good.

     

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,573
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

     

    I don't play single player RPGs much because I like having a community.  SWTOR had the best leveling experience of any MMO I've played.  It just sucked once you got to the level cap.

    Actually I think SWTOR is a good example of why MMOs shouldn't focus too much on story. Sure the story quests in that were pretty well done but it came at the cost of the rest of the game and most people blew through the story in weeks and then uninstalled. Fine in a single player RPG. Not fine in an MMO.

     

    Actually TOR is a good example of why MMO should focus on stories. $200M+ revenue a year ... that is a pretty good reason.

    Sure, TOR would have been a better game if it is made single player .. but it is still a big financial success as a MMO. So all good.

     

    It's a good reason for companies trying to make as much money as possible, but not necessarily a good game.  McDonalds makes lots of money with fast food, but that doesn't mean it's good food.  People seem to like a crappy (fast food) product over a healthy diet that will make them feel better.  The same is true with games.  Even worse they are getting a ripped off a lot more then people do with fast food because of micro transactions.  For some reason people eat up super easy games with lots of potential real life purchases.  They don't even seem to realize they are spending more money then they would have with a subscription model.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,769
    Originally posted by Flyte27

     

    It's a good reason for companies trying to make as much money as possible, but not necessarily a good game. 

    "good" is subjective.

    For the 500k subs, it is good enough, and also for the millions who play for free. Personally i don't think it is a good game, but i doubt a game can make $200+M a year without someone thinking it is good.

     

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Actually TOR is a good example of why MMO should focus on stories. $200M+ revenue a year ... that is a pretty good reason.

    Sure, TOR would have been a better game if it is made single player .. but it is still a big financial success as a MMO. So all good. 

    Actually, TOR probably wouldn't have been a better game if it was made single player, because the budget would have been so much lower that we probably would have ended up with only one class story, from one of the factions.  And obviously it would have been Republic and Jedi Knight.  So unless that was your favorite part of the game, you are better off with it being a MMO.

    MMOs have far more potential for delivering interesting single player story than single player games do, because the scale of the games allows for a much larger variety of content. I would much rather have one game that focuses on eight different types of player character in the narrative than eight games that just deliver variations on one character type, which is what we almost certainly would have gotten from an expanding series of single player KotORs.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,769
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Actually TOR is a good example of why MMO should focus on stories. $200M+ revenue a year ... that is a pretty good reason.

    Sure, TOR would have been a better game if it is made single player .. but it is still a big financial success as a MMO. So all good. 

    Actually, TOR probably wouldn't have been a better game if it was made single player, because the budget would have been so much lower that we probably would have ended up with only one class story, from one of the factions.  And obviously it would have been Republic and Jedi Knight.  So unless that was your favorite part of the game, you are better off with it being a MMO.

    MMOs have far more potential for delivering interesting single player story than single player games do, because the scale of the games allows for a much larger variety of content. I would much rather have one game that focuses on eight different types of player character in the narrative than eight games that just deliver variations on one character type, which is what we almost certainly would have gotten from an expanding series of single player KotORs.

    We don't know that .. and you can save money from not making the game world.

    But i do not disagree that MMOs *can* deliver good single player story driven content through the use of instances.

     

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,536
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

    ....

     

    Storyline is not putting the game makers out much don't worry about it taking up so much budget that it leaves no devs left for combat action dynamics.  Really, there's no shortage of writers just good devs.  I imagine writers much like artists are willing to sacrifice themselves for free.  Their "gift" is bleeding out their pores they can't help themselves.

    Oh there's so much that's wrong here, and it's part of the reason that many games have such ... pedestrian ... stories.  Everyone thinks they can write, and that their ideas are clever.   Sadly, this is often not even close to true.  Many successful, popular writers are really not particularly good at their craft.    In games it shows up in bad to mediocre  world design, poorly implemented stories, quests, and characters.  

     

    In the entertainment world, writers are undervalued tremendously, and it shows up continually in film, game, etc.   It's amazing that 100s of millions of dollars will be spent on stories that couldn't write their way out of a wet  paper bag. 

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Oh there's so much that's wrong here, and it's part of the reason that many games have such ... pedestrian ... stories.  Everyone thinks they can write, and that their ideas are clever.   Sadly, this is often not even close to true.  Many successful, popular writers are really not particularly good at their craft.    In games it shows up in bad to mediocre  world design, poorly implemented stories, quests, and characters.   

    In the entertainment world, writers are undervalued tremendously, and it shows up continually in film, game, etc.   It's amazing that 100s of millions of dollars will be spent on stories that couldn't write their way out of a wet  paper bag.  

    Ideally, all entertainment products would be written by people who are both good writers and good storytellers.  But if we can only have one, I'd rather the good storyteller.  Hell, look at Stephen King, if you look at the writing itself rather than the stories being told through that writing, he is absolutely terrible, but other people have made some pretty decent movies using his stories.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

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