That's the point. WHAT IS THE GAME? You say it has many things you like, but you DONT KNOW THAT and it also doesn't matter because other TES fans may like TES for different reasons. They are asking people to pre-order and not giving any information about the majority of the game. So, everyones examples of other types of businesses trying to do this, applies.
Pretty much everyone who wanted to, could get into the beta for this weekend. Sure it was level capped, but for some it gives a good enough indication of what the game is. Me included. Do I think they should be selling the game now with the NDA still up, no. But people aren't forced to buy it RIGHT this moment either. They can wait till the game is available to be tried, like in this weekends beta, or for the NDA to be dropped, hopefully.
With the part about not giving enough information about the end game and such, I'm just not sure I agree. That's been one of my main gripes with several games throughout the last few years. I've simply known too much about them, and what was possible and not possible in the end of the game. It made me bored to death fast.
oh for the love of god...
Ha!
That's what I said when I read his post. Not even going to bother replying to him now since he seems to be doing this on purpose.
Yeah. Me not agreeing with you two is completely on purpose. Get over yourself.
Very well, we'll agree to disagree. But after this little "discussion" with you two, I don't count on even that.
food for thought.
If the game was called anything other than Elder Scrolls Online I can assure you all of us hating on it wouldnt be here with all our crazy talk about skill based open world systems. We would just ignore it
I think they should have called it "The Prophet", renamed all of the characters and lands with different names, called the scroll something different, changed the race names and look to a slightly different look, and this would have been voted one of the best MMO of all time lol.
That's the point. WHAT IS THE GAME? You say it has many things you like, but you DONT KNOW THAT and it also doesn't matter because other TES fans may like TES for different reasons. They are asking people to pre-order and not giving any information about the majority of the game. So, everyones examples of other types of businesses trying to do this, applies.
Pretty much everyone who wanted to, could get into the beta for this weekend. Sure it was level capped, but for some it gives a good enough indication of what the game is. Me included. Do I think they should be selling the game now with the NDA still up, no. But people aren't forced to buy it RIGHT this moment either. They can wait till the game is available to be tried, like in this weekends beta, or for the NDA to be dropped, hopefully.
With the part about not giving enough information about the end game and such, I'm just not sure I agree. That's been one of my main gripes with several games throughout the last few years. I've simply known too much about them, and what was possible and not possible in the end of the game. It made me bored to death fast.
oh for the love of god...
Ha!
That's what I said when I read his post. Not even going to bother replying to him now since he seems to be doing this on purpose.
Yeah. Me not agreeing with you two is completely on purpose. Get over yourself.
Very well, we'll agree to disagree. But after this little "discussion" with you two, I don't count on even that.
food for thought.
If the game was called anything other than Elder Scrolls Online I can assure you all of us hating on it wouldnt be here with all our crazy talk about skill based open world systems. We would just ignore it
I think they should have called it "The Prophet", renamed all of the characters and lands with different names, called the scroll something different, changed the race names and look to a slightly different look, and this would have been voted one of the best MMO of all time lol.
and people would still not know what Darkfall is..
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If the game was called anything other than Elder Scrolls Online I can assure you all of us hating on it wouldnt be here with all our crazy talk about skill based open world systems. We would just ignore it
Exactly. You don't see the other lead of DaoC trying to take a famous IP to remake the only thing they know, he went with Camelot Unchained for his redoing of that old game, and he isn't getting burned by so many people.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Its unfortnate that from this review and no other review showing how questing is any good that they are repeating the mistakes of swtor by having VO, but simple quests.
I would rather play a game that had a lot of text based quests but good combat, and fun quests that are varied instead of a long winded story/quest. Especially since I have my variety of story with comics, books, anime etc, that even in mmos that claim to bring story barely touch on the style that exists that I would consider entertaining just on its merits for story telling. So the point is, story and VO are too much of an all-in, disregarding other aspects of the mmo to consider it viable as an investment option for mmo developers.
Yes, VO looks like quality, and thats to be the highest prioroty by including VO is to make the game appear like a high quality game to charge higher prices... but sacrifice other parts of the game which over time become appearent for its weaknesses... which in cases like swtor with an mmo that was static with NPCs, no day/night cycles, linear quests, quests are essentially very similar to each other, etc that a game becomes f2p.
However, the pvp in eso seems more thought out than swtor, so there is that. I can still see eso being very popular... and i do hope i am wrong that mmo devs and their investors dont try to include VO at the cost of developing a better MMO.
I guess its a matter of priorities... and to me, it makes no sense for a company to put a lot of effort into the jounrey to fall short on questing by inluding some dynamci events, different kind of quests with single epic bosses, to plat forming, puzzles, waves of npps attacks, to mini game scenarioes with sports, cards, racing, mounted combat, artilerry, mini strategy games with tower defense etc etc ... but have high quality music, VO, multi classing, large open worlds for pve. The priority seems off... and developers will say that mmos are many games in one... with different systems, but when the questing system is simple it looks to me just like one game that has an online mode which maybe might make it look like 2 games in one...
Kinda sad to hear that about eso... even though i really would have likes to try orcs, among other great options in their game... but the sound of it being grindy and repetitive questing is not something i want to journey through... ill wait for a video to see a whole quest line and then judge to see.
Questing is not "generic", don't wanna break NDA but try it for yourself.
The questing in TESO somewhat differs from WoW or FFXIV (which i like a lot) or Lineage typical themepark.
From the few videos i have seen, and 2 reviews that say its simple questing, i can only assume that it is... but ofc, my percption is that of an outsider, and i do not take opinions as a matter of fact... but from what i saw those quests look like ordinary kill quests.
The NDA is not helping if the early lvls of previews give a distorted picture.
Maybe they should chime in. Its a long of a wait to let negative impressions fly and apparently there are a lot of negative reviews floating around, and in terms of questing are not fair apparently as you mentioned.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
From the few videos i have seen, and 2 reviews that say its simple questing, i can only assume that it is... but ofc, my percption is that of an outsider, and i do not take opinions as a matter of fact... but from what i saw those quests look like ordinary kill quests.
The NDA is not helping if the early lvls of previews give a distorted picture.
Maybe they should chime in. Its a long of a wait to let negative impressions fly and apparently there are a lot of negative reviews floating around, and in terms of questing are not fair apparently as you mentioned.
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
I feel like he was already prepared to review it badly because of the imperial edition issue. Totally under the impression he was biased before he'd even tried it.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
From the few videos i have seen, and 2 reviews that say its simple questing, i can only assume that it is... but ofc, my percption is that of an outsider, and i do not take opinions as a matter of fact... but from what i saw those quests look like ordinary kill quests.
The NDA is not helping if the early lvls of previews give a distorted picture.
Maybe they should chime in. Its a long of a wait to let negative impressions fly and apparently there are a lot of negative reviews floating around, and in terms of questing are not fair apparently as you mentioned.
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by Vannor I feel like he was already prepared to review it badly because of the imperial edition issue. Totally under the impression he was biased before he'd even tried it.
Not me, what he does do though is ALWAYS make sure to mention the flaws and you know what ,the flaws are exactly what players should know.
The GOOD parts of a game take care of themselves,god knows between advertising on hundreds of sites and biased interviews ect ect,the good will be spammed over and over.The flaws are usually what are hidden from the public,the dev is NEVER going to admit to a problem,...EVER.
He did mention that he THINKS ZENI is open to criticism,i don't like the term "constructive" that is a BS polite way of saying your game has problems...fix it.I believe in saying things straight forward,no candy coating,truth hurts but so what take note and fix the problems.
There is nothing in Angry Joe's review that you can argue is not FACT,there are a couple opinionated things like the same spawn sharing but overall,every point he made is a valid point already discussed over many years of gaming.
Joe actually sounds like me when i play a game,i might not be talking to anyone else,ubt i dissect EVERY minute in the game and decide weather it is done poorly,acceptable or just rotten.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Am I the only person left that reviews my own games by buying them and playing them? Are there really that many sheep on the edge of their seat waiting to be told to buy something because a reviewer said it was good or to stay away because a reviewer said it was bad? I genuinely feel sorry for people with the mentality that they need to constantly be told what to like and not like.
If you never read reviews then OK but I find that odd. I haven't got time to buy and play every single games that is released.
Do you read reviews before you buy a new washing machine? Car? Television? See a film? Or do you just buy all?
You don't have to agree with a reviewer but reviews will present a window into a product. Check out enough reviews and you can start to form an opinion. And you can still buy the game regardless.
I see your point. Purchasing a $50,000 vehicle is exactly like purchasing a $50 game and should be taken just as serious.
Personally, I used to see an ad for a game, go to their site and see if I liked anything about the game/world/races/classes, and if I did I'd buy it. Sometimes I get lemons, sometimes I get lemonade. I only do it once or twice a year, so I think the lemons are worth me making my own decisions on whether or not to buy a game.
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley My favorite part about this review is how at first, Angry Joe is enjoying himself until his sidekick starts pointing out what he sees as flaws & begins to criticize the entire series. He slowly sways Joe from his enjoymemt of the game to the enjoyment of ridiculing it. If they don't like the ES series, why would they like the mmo version? Bias review is bias from the get. The only reason he pumped out a shallow review consisting of only lvls 1-9 (which are the introductory tutorial levels) was to capitalize on the popularity & hype of the beta to get more hits on his youtube channel.All this video shows is how Angry Joe is a hamfisting opportunist & puppet who is easily swayed by his peers.Angry Joe is an angry joke.
LOL, this post is awesome.
I'll second that.I think in general there are so many "sheeple" out there. People need to learn to think for themselves and stop letting others tell them what to think.
agreed, horribly amateuristic as a game reviewer. Note to self: Never read his reviews or watch his videos again. I want my few minutes back.
Are all the sheeple present? <looks above at quoted posts> Yup.
Read what you agreed to then added to. Even though you were totally off-base, do you all feel better now? Did you all keep logging onto the Collector's Edition website 4 hours before the sale commenced?
Never has a better prime example of what is being complained about been so excellently shown...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Knup42 Elder Scroll Online is to a MMO what Andre Rieu is to classical music.....i dont need to say more.
using other peoples music to become famous while adding nothing new to music as a whole himself and mostly performing for elitists?
Wait, that's a damn good comparison!
I would rather see John Williams any day of the week, at least he writes his own music and isn't just a "performer", I can get that with any popular music.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
You poor folks need to ignore the haters (and FBs) alike.
As for the preview, taking the word of an out of work wannabe actor that likes fancy dress and console games? Well, as someone just put it "Nuff said!".
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor You poor folks need to ignore the haters (and FBs) alike.As for the preview, taking the word of an out of work wannabe actor that likes fancy dress and console games? Well, as someone just put it "Nuff said!".
Yea... When nothing substantial can be said about the review, review the reviewer.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor You poor folks need to ignore the haters (and FBs) alike.
As for the preview, taking the word of an out of work wannabe actor that likes fancy dress and console games? Well, as someone just put it "Nuff said!".
Yea... When nothing substantial can be said about the review, review the reviewer.
Ah yes, people trying the Ad Hominem trick. Always makes me snicker.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The funniest thing is you can click on the youtube commenter's that are super excited about the game and then follow their history back to the last new MMO and see how they wanted that game more than anything before release. Then gushed about the game during beta. Then three months later speak of it as being, 'Ok'. Then six months later they start bashing it viciously, like it kicked their dog and spit in their hair. Then finally you see them ramping up again for the next new MMO and the cycle repeats.
Try it yourself.
I've given this phenomena a name; MMO locusts. Look up locust swarms and how they go from crop field to crop field and destroy it. Don't mistake the term as some snarky insult. It just seems like the best descriptor for the industry's most predominant fan behavior for recent MMOs.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor You poor folks need to ignore the haters (and FBs) alike.
As for the preview, taking the word of an out of work wannabe actor that likes fancy dress and console games? Well, as someone just put it "Nuff said!".
Yea... When nothing substantial can be said about the review, review the reviewer.
Ah yes, people trying the Ad Hominem trick. Always makes me snicker.
It makes you chocolate bar?
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley My favorite part about this review is how at first, Angry Joe is enjoying himself until his sidekick starts pointing out what he sees as flaws & begins to criticize the entire series. He slowly sways Joe from his enjoymemt of the game to the enjoyment of ridiculing it. If they don't like the ES series, why would they like the mmo version? Bias review is bias from the get. The only reason he pumped out a shallow review consisting of only lvls 1-9 (which are the introductory tutorial levels) was to capitalize on the popularity & hype of the beta to get more hits on his youtube channel.
All this video shows is how Angry Joe is a hamfisting opportunist & puppet who is easily swayed by his peers.
Angry Joe is an angry joke.
LOL, this post is awesome.
I'll second that.
I think in general there are so many "sheeple" out there. People need to learn to think for themselves and stop letting others tell them what to think.
agreed, horribly amateuristic as a game reviewer. Note to self: Never read his reviews or watch his videos again. I want my few minutes back.
Are all the sheeple present? Yup. Read what you agreed to then added to. Even though you were totally off-base, do you all feel better now? Did you all keep logging onto the Collector's Edition website 4 hours before the sale commenced? Never has a better prime example of what is being complained about been so excellently shown...
TBH, I did feel a little better after posting that. And I thought of it all by myself!
I didn't need a youtube video to tell me how to post it either...
From the few videos i have seen, and 2 reviews that say its simple questing, i can only assume that it is... but ofc, my percption is that of an outsider, and i do not take opinions as a matter of fact... but from what i saw those quests look like ordinary kill quests.
The NDA is not helping if the early lvls of previews give a distorted picture.
Maybe they should chime in. Its a long of a wait to let negative impressions fly and apparently there are a lot of negative reviews floating around, and in terms of questing are not fair apparently as you mentioned.
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
They are what? Typical kill quests or full blown skyrim quests? Because they most certainly are not typical kill quests. I only played up until about level 10 and I didn't get a single kill quest. And from what I understand the game only opens up even more after that.
Comments
I think they should have called it "The Prophet", renamed all of the characters and lands with different names, called the scroll something different, changed the race names and look to a slightly different look, and this would have been voted one of the best MMO of all time lol.
There Is Always Hope!
and people would still not know what Darkfall is..
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Paying extra for certain races ..special mount..is unacceptable.
Any race for any faction...seems like panic(on what is coming) in ESO land...removing any semblance of what a faction means.
its subscription based and cash shop basically.
who says they dont innovate...lol
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Exactly. You don't see the other lead of DaoC trying to take a famous IP to remake the only thing they know, he went with Camelot Unchained for his redoing of that old game, and he isn't getting burned by so many people.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
From the few videos i have seen, and 2 reviews that say its simple questing, i can only assume that it is... but ofc, my percption is that of an outsider, and i do not take opinions as a matter of fact... but from what i saw those quests look like ordinary kill quests.
The NDA is not helping if the early lvls of previews give a distorted picture.
Maybe they should chime in. Its a long of a wait to let negative impressions fly and apparently there are a lot of negative reviews floating around, and in terms of questing are not fair apparently as you mentioned.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Not me, what he does do though is ALWAYS make sure to mention the flaws and you know what ,the flaws are exactly what players should know.
The GOOD parts of a game take care of themselves,god knows between advertising on hundreds of sites and biased interviews ect ect,the good will be spammed over and over.The flaws are usually what are hidden from the public,the dev is NEVER going to admit to a problem,...EVER.
He did mention that he THINKS ZENI is open to criticism,i don't like the term "constructive" that is a BS polite way of saying your game has problems...fix it.I believe in saying things straight forward,no candy coating,truth hurts but so what take note and fix the problems.
There is nothing in Angry Joe's review that you can argue is not FACT,there are a couple opinionated things like the same spawn sharing but overall,every point he made is a valid point already discussed over many years of gaming.
Joe actually sounds like me when i play a game,i might not be talking to anyone else,ubt i dissect EVERY minute in the game and decide weather it is done poorly,acceptable or just rotten.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I see your point. Purchasing a $50,000 vehicle is exactly like purchasing a $50 game and should be taken just as serious.
Personally, I used to see an ad for a game, go to their site and see if I liked anything about the game/world/races/classes, and if I did I'd buy it. Sometimes I get lemons, sometimes I get lemonade. I only do it once or twice a year, so I think the lemons are worth me making my own decisions on whether or not to buy a game.
Read what you agreed to then added to. Even though you were totally off-base, do you all feel better now? Did you all keep logging onto the Collector's Edition website 4 hours before the sale commenced?
Never has a better prime example of what is being complained about been so excellently shown...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Ryoshi1 as Rikimaru
using other peoples music to become famous while adding nothing new to music as a whole himself and mostly performing for elitists?
Wait, that's a damn good comparison!
I would rather see John Williams any day of the week, at least he writes his own music and isn't just a "performer", I can get that with any popular music.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
absolutely yes
You poor folks need to ignore the haters (and FBs) alike.
As for the preview, taking the word of an out of work wannabe actor that likes fancy dress and console games? Well, as someone just put it "Nuff said!".
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Ah yes, people trying the Ad Hominem trick. Always makes me snicker.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The funniest thing is you can click on the youtube commenter's that are super excited about the game and then follow their history back to the last new MMO and see how they wanted that game more than anything before release. Then gushed about the game during beta. Then three months later speak of it as being, 'Ok'. Then six months later they start bashing it viciously, like it kicked their dog and spit in their hair. Then finally you see them ramping up again for the next new MMO and the cycle repeats.
Try it yourself.
I've given this phenomena a name; MMO locusts. Look up locust swarms and how they go from crop field to crop field and destroy it. Don't mistake the term as some snarky insult. It just seems like the best descriptor for the industry's most predominant fan behavior for recent MMOs.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
It makes you chocolate bar?
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube
TBH, I did feel a little better after posting that. And I thought of it all by myself!
I didn't need a youtube video to tell me how to post it either...
They are what? Typical kill quests or full blown skyrim quests? Because they most certainly are not typical kill quests. I only played up until about level 10 and I didn't get a single kill quest. And from what I understand the game only opens up even more after that.