Kickstarters are a low point that gaming industry has reached, of course MMOs happen to be plagued by them due to constant failures of big name MMOs that have released in recent years. Game development is no different from any other major business in terms of basic concepts, it is funded by the wealthy who take a gamble on turning a profit from their investments. And yet in a kickstarter the general public are the ones who are taking a gamble on it, in most other businesses such practice would be completely laughable. Let the investors lose money over bullshit MMOs, eventually enough devs will lose their jobs to understand they need to do better research over what the players want.
Since these forums have been filled with kickstarter threads and people trying to "spread the word out"...let me tell you few things about "kickstarters" and why I'll never spend a cent.
#1 I'll never get return for my "investment". If on other side by law those involved with the projects start making revenue and returned the profits to its investors, that would be something different. Although, history has shown that even if such law existed people still find ways to pocket as much as they can for themself.
We, the gamers can still continue to help developers a lot through other means to develop their project from spreading the word out about the game and sharing our opinions and ideas (both positive and negative)...which is called feedback.
Personally I would never ever give $ to people I don't have very close relationship, especially people who "BEG" and "ask" for money from the public. I dislike those who try to take advantage of me and others for personal gains.
Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. On other side, it's nice to see that people are getting desperate for money. I've also been desperate for a good game over the last 3+ years, but hey...no one cared what I want, so I spent $0.00 on anything new that was released.
Also as far as I know, no company pm'ed me a contract on these forums to be a lead design for a game, despite my unique knowledge and exceptional experience with gaming through my entire life...Tip for investors, you won't find the brilliant minds at your doorsteps asking to be funded to develop your projects. You look for them because most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives to bother wasting their time developing a game in first place. Of course with the right negotitioning, determination, timing and price I could be persuaded.
Anyways, I gave my two cents about kickstarters.
First of all, I'll address your self-entitled attitude. Let me tell you that you're not a unique and beautiful butterfly. You might think that you're brilliant, but "ideas" are a dime a dozen. Doesn't matter how amazing it is. I guarantee that whatever ideas are bouncing around in that brain of yours have been tossed around a boardroom table more than once.
Secondly, you'd never survive in the game industry. You know why? The game industry is filled with people who will do, literally, whatever it takes to get the job done, including working insane hours for no additional money, putting their own money into a project, working from home, sacrificing their social and family lives to see a game to fruition. I worked in the game industry for less than a year as a level designer and I can tell that you don't have the foggiest idea of what is involved with making a game and what these people sacrifice to do it.
I'm really sorry to rain on your parade, but if you wanted to be in the game industry, you'd be in it, doing it yourself. HeroEngine is $99 a year and I'm pretty sure you can use completely free modelling tools with it now, so what's your excuse? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? You think that a Game Designer is just someone with a great idea, but it's someone who EXECUTES a great idea!
Re: Kickstarter, I've backed many a project on Kickstarter and let me say that you are entirely wrong. See the big misconception about gaming is that big studios want to do innovative things. In reality, big studios want to create accessible, familiar, profitable titles. They want massively successful titles, not smaller niche titles. Kickstarter drives innovation. If you're content with the same, tired, gaming experience year-in and year-out, you just leave that money in your pocket, then. My guess is that you'll probably never buy another game at that rate.
Think about it, Ouya, Oculus Rift, The Repopulation, Broken Age (aka Double Fine Adventure), Dark Sky, Cards Against Humanity, Camelot Unchained, other things people obviously cared about. The fact is that, for the most part, it is almost impossible to get someone to throw money at these ideas in a corporate environment. Your assertion that successful Kickstarter projects aren't accountable and can just die off and disappear with your money is entirely incorrect. The people responsible for the project are legally obligated to deliver what they promise, as outlined in the Kickstarter TOS. If there was a large project which just disappeared with people's money, you could create a class action law suit and you'd probably win.
I can't think of a single project off the top of my head that didn't deliver. I think that you hear about a lot of projects delivering later than their estimated delivery date, but that's no different than any game. Look at Duke Nukem Forever, it only took like 10 years to release. It can be a gamble, I suppose, but if you want to promote innovation, it's a great medium for it, as long as you're smart about it. So, for instance, yes, you could create a Kickstarter for these amazing ideas you have, but unless you had something to actually show, it's not likely that you're going to get what you need to make a go of it. Also, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Use your brain, just like any other situation.
I have no problem kickstarting things that actually exist, you know, some work has been done and you can visibly see the progress and the ability to follow through. But some of these MMO kickstarters are like, "I've got an idea! Gimmie dat moniez!" No thanks, I've got an idea too. It's better than yours and both of our games do not exist, so you get no money.
I don't Kickstart either, I buy finished products, I don't even play betas, I won't touch it until it's been on the actual market for a considerable amount of time so I can see exactly how it plays. I don't want to invest, I want to play. I have no faith that anyone on Kickstarter is going to produce a game that's as good as they claim that it will be. Who knows, if I donated to an MMO project, by the time it actually comes out, I may no longer want to play MMOs, then what?
Take the risk, put your own money and the money of actual investors into your project, make it real, make it exceptional, then ask me for money. You're not getting it until then.
Kickstarters are risky, but you can mitigate some of the risk by doing extensive research of each campaign.
Or... improve our finances by improving our selves and/or upgrading our professions. We would end up with so much more discretionary income, we could invest in 'every' slightly interesting kickstarter with zero chance of negatively impacting our lives.
On a side note, I really wish our society encouraged more risk taking instead of just rewarding seniority.
$20 free one hour boat tour of Egmont Key Nation Wildlife Refuge.
$50 half day on the island soft drinks and snacks included.
$100 full day on the island, snorkeling, jet skies, soft drinks, snack, and lunch included.
$250 the above + live music, bonfire, dinner, and dancing included.
$500 the above + a full second day at your choice of sailing, deep sea fishing, or open water dive.
$1000 the above + dancing the nights away at Ybor City ( club covers and drink cards included )
FYI before the mods attack just a joke... unless someone really interested then maybe l'll go make a kickstarter page.
Looks like someone is a true Floridian! Egmont Key and Ybor, quite the combination. For $1500 you could set up a photo shoot in the scenic Castle with the Senator (nsfw)!
On the topic of Kickstarters, I think far too many people are overly angry and distrustful. You are not forced to Kickstarters anything. I've Kickstarters several projects. I've really enjoyed several games I backed, including FTL which I still play weekly for about an hour to an hour and a half. That's a pretty good value. I even got a soundtrack out of it and my car is now a spaceship.
It's completely unreasonable to assume a project on Kickstarter won't ever see the light of day. It's actually quite easy to just take a look at who is involved in the project,what their plans are, and what they have so far. If you can't figure out which projects are unlikely to be up to your standards, then you probably shouldn't back anything. Some people are getting value from their investment, and you aren't forced to, so why would you have a problem with it?
The fact is, there are projects that would not have existed without Kickstarter. It is far different getting fans of a person,company, genre, or idea to fund a project and getting a company based on maximizing profits to fund one. They are not equal. Giving creative people more options, and arguably more freedom is always a good thing. I suppose at the end of the day, you have to be willing to risk your money on a project that is potentially closer to a creator's true vision but with less of a budget or a project with a larger budget but with producers calling some shots. Weigh the options, and stop whining about alternative options.
Of course you are free to spend your money wherever on whatever. You are free to light it all on fire and make a youtube video about it just like I'm free to make fun of you for it. Just because you are permitted to do something doesn't mean you aren't stupid for doing it. Especially true when it concerns donating to multimillionaires.
I have nothing against Kickstarter per se, but it riles me when begging posts appear on gaming forums written by developers from there. I hope this site eventually deletes and bans any future begging threads that show up.
I find the threads from the same people who backed the games over and over far more annoying.
Essentially spamming the site telling everyone how they should donate even if it's $10 as a vote for "old school", or how we can no longer complain about current games if we don't back the one they happen to be backing, how we have the developer all wrong, etc. I never thought I would get so sick of the term "no hand holding".
Since these forums have been filled with kickstarter threads and people trying to "spread the word out"...let me tell you few things about "kickstarters" and why I'll never spend a cent.
#1 I'll never get return for my "investment". If on other side by law those involved with the projects start making revenue and returned the profits to its investors, that would be something different. Although, history has shown that even if such law existed people still find ways to pocket as much as they can for themself.
We, the gamers can still continue to help developers a lot through other means to develop their project from spreading the word out about the game and sharing our opinions and ideas (both positive and negative)...which is called feedback.
Personally I would never ever give $ to people I don't have very close relationship, especially people who "BEG" and "ask" for money from the public. I dislike those who try to take advantage of me and others for personal gains.
Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. On other side, it's nice to see that people are getting desperate for money. I've also been desperate for a good game over the last 3+ years, but hey...no one cared what I want, so I spent $0.00 on anything new that was released.
Also as far as I know, no company pm'ed me a contract on these forums to be a lead design for a game, despite my unique knowledge and exceptional experience with gaming through my entire life...Tip for investors, you won't find the brilliant minds at your doorsteps asking to be funded to develop your projects. You look for them because most brilliant minds already have $ and are too busy enjoying their lives to bother wasting their time developing a game in first place. Of course with the right negotitioning, determination, timing and price I could be persuaded.
Anyways, I gave my two cents about kickstarters.
You clearly have no idea what kickstarter is about.. but hey they are not forcing you to support them at that ponit.. wait for the game to be released its your choice..
OP, I think you misunderstand the nature of what a Kickstarter really is. It's a DONATION not an investment and not a purchase of goods. It's essentialy the same thing as handing a kid a few bucks so that he can buy paints and a brush to paint a mural on the wall of a building in your neighborhood or tossing a few coins in a street muisican's case before he starts playing. It goes back to the old fashioned concept of PATRONAGE of artists.
You are giving away a few dollars to someone who you think is worthy of producing creative works so they MIGHT produce those works. There is absolutely no assurance of what might result from that. It's based entirely on faith....and there is no quid qo pro. If you give, you should do so only if you are comfortable with getting nothing back in return. You may be given a "thank you" reward in return....but you shouldn't really count on the value of that. If you don't have faith in the people you are DONATING to then you probably shouldn't be donating. That's it.
"Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. "
This is where you lost me.
The difference between Kickstarter and traditionally funded games is that in a traditional funders are multi-million dollar publishers or glorified loan-sharks. Basically rich people. Kickstarter games are funded by "little people", lots of common people donating money to get a project going.
Neither means of funding a game qualifies it as particularly worthy of being developed.. Both can lead to crap games, both could hypothetically lead to great games.
OP, I think you misunderstand the nature of what a Kickstarter really is. It's a DONATION not an investment and not a purchase of goods. It's essentialy the same thing as handing a kid a few bucks so that he can buy paints and a brush to paint a mural on the wall of a building in your neighborhood or tossing a few coins in a street muisican's case before he starts playing. It goes back to the old fashioned concept of PATRONAGE of artists.
You are giving away a few dollars to someone who you think is worthy of producing creative works so they MIGHT produce those works. There is absolutely no assurance of what might result from that. It's based entirely on faith....and there is no quid qo pro. If you give, you should do so only if you are comfortable with getting nothing back in return. You may be given a "thank you" reward in return....but you shouldn't really count on the value of that. If you don't have faith in the people you are DONATING to then you probably shouldn't be donating. That's it.
This isn't entirely correct.
Kickstarter has a few safety nets to prevent people from scamming, and to ensure people actually begin work on their project and meet deadlines. You can't just put out a kick-starter, get money, and not do anything.
Kickstarter has a few safety nets to prevent people from scamming, and to ensure people actually begin work on their project and meet deadlines. You can't just put out a kick-starter, get money, and not do anything.
But you don't have to guarantee to actually release a product. And what if people do nothing, KS is going to sue them?
Because we never pay for anything that we do not use.
Every November I don't select anything beyond what I am required by law.
I don't select anything over minimum coverage for my car or homeowners/renters insurance
I have never paid a small extra fee on any line of credit that will make my payments if something were to cause me to be unable to make those payments in the future.
Odd how I have not used my health insurance for anything other than the required physical so I do not have to pay the Obama premium. I have never filed a claim with any of my insurance companies. And I have never become unable to pay my bills due to losing a job or injury etc. but yet I still continue to make purchases not knowing I will ever see that money put to use.
Kickstarter has a few safety nets to prevent people from scamming, and to ensure people actually begin work on their project and meet deadlines. You can't just put out a kick-starter, get money, and not do anything.
But you don't have to guarantee to actually release a product. And what if people do nothing, KS is going to sue them?
Yes, Kickstarter will sue them on your behalf. The "legal-ese" fine-print is massive, and they have a precedent of doing exactly that.
I have nothing against Kickstarter per se, but it riles me when begging posts appear on gaming forums written by developers from there. I hope this site eventually deletes and bans any future begging threads that show up.
I find the threads from the same people who backed the games over and over far more annoying.
Essentially spamming the site telling everyone how they should donate even if it's $10 as a vote for "old school", or how we can no longer complain about current games if we don't back the one they happen to be backing, how we have the developer all wrong, etc. I never thought I would get so sick of the term "no hand holding".
its really quite cringe worthy.
About as cringe worthy as wasting money on the trash that is TESO willingly imo. Or keeping tunnel quest grind f2p trash like TOR on one's hard drive.
Or crying about games having subs and actually making you pay for a service.
Like how adults do in real life. You know pay for services, like life insurance, cable television, cellphone service, etc. But I guess those should all be f2p too...
Those are pretty cringe worthy imo.
But backing a kickstarter by a group that made two good games I like and making informative posts about the project? Instead of poping up in threads telling folk how to spend their -own- hard earned money? Or helping people find something that many on here claim to want?
I don't see the problem
I'd rather be positive than negative..
"Hey help contribute to this game that encorages social interaction and friendship! Just like the previous two games made by these guys! and here is why!"
Yeah you might be right, encouraging people who miss classic mmorpgs and socializing in games is such a horrible horrible thing. Especially when I could just ignore the post and not even read it if I was truly uninterested.....
*yawns
So many hypocritical statements with what you just wrote.
Because half of it was sarcasm........did you not get that?
It was just as hypocritical as those who come here make these types of posts and then go fire up TOR or gladly put down for the Imperial edition of TESO
"Hey I won't Kickstart a game made by guys who made good games in the past!"
"Id rather buy a fully produced game that is garbage!"
See look at that, its sarcasm again!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I had different reasons for not wanting to ever kickstarter something before. The a game called, HEX, came along. It offered a wide variety of packages. One being called a Pro Player Tier for $250.00.
Now this tier gave me among tons of packs and cards of the first set, a free draft once a week for life of the game. Considering I played magic the gathering and a draft cost oh..$15.00 a pop you do the math. In HEX, it will cost $7.00 normally.
With this I can easily see that I'll make out like a bandit by the end of the first year alone, so I decided to not only purchase one, but bought 2. Now the game is still in Alpha, but it will garner strength once in open beta and full release. Meaning if I ever do decide to sell them accounts, they will be more than double the value. The developers also have not in anyway specifically stated they will do anything about third party selling (ALA MTGO) as they should not. This leads my free cards and packs from winning to directly make me a profit if I go that route.
-----------------------------------------------
Now among other things, kickstarter offers all kinds of advantages and even special promos. To say that you'll never have a hand in making something is absurd. Sometimes dropping a twenty could pay off in the long run.
OP, I think you misunderstand the nature of what a Kickstarter really is. It's a DONATION not an investment and not a purchase of goods. It's essentialy the same thing as handing a kid a few bucks so that he can buy paints and a brush to paint a mural on the wall of a building in your neighborhood or tossing a few coins in a street muisican's case before he starts playing. It goes back to the old fashioned concept of PATRONAGE of artists.
You are giving away a few dollars to someone who you think is worthy of producing creative works so they MIGHT produce those works. There is absolutely no assurance of what might result from that. It's based entirely on faith....and there is no quid qo pro. If you give, you should do so only if you are comfortable with getting nothing back in return. You may be given a "thank you" reward in return....but you shouldn't really count on the value of that. If you don't have faith in the people you are DONATING to then you probably shouldn't be donating. That's it.
This isn't entirely correct.
Kickstarter has a few safety nets to prevent people from scamming, and to ensure people actually begin work on their project and meet deadlines. You can't just put out a kick-starter, get money, and not do anything.
Not particularly relevent. It can prevent an outright scam but it can't assure that what's being produced has any real worth or value to the person DONATING.... and it is a DONATION not an investment. Recent changes in the law have oppened up the possibility to do small scale investing... that wasn't even possible for most people until recently due to federal law...but that's an entirely different venue from Kickstarter.
If you want to do that, go somewhere else, if you want to buy a product, go somewhere else. If you want to make a DONATION to a creative project that you feel may be worthy, that's what Kickstarter is for....but realize that there is no assurance that the end product will be worthwhile....that is based entirely on your faith in the producers of the project.
P.S. I like Kickstarter.....I think it's a great venue to get creative products made that would otherwise be impossible due to inability to get traditional funding. I think it puts power back in the hands of consumers and small independant producers and nothing could be better. I've donated to a few projects there myself. However people really need to understand what it is and what it isn't.
Firstly, thx for all the replays, trying to share your views and insight on the kickstarter concept...now back on topic.
To all who defend kickstarter as a donation/charity cause. Donation/charity causes as far as I know do not use your money afterwards to "make more money" for personal benefits.
Some might argue the statement "people without the $ are unworthy to develop the project". Truth is if they were worthy in first place they would have publishers/investors backing them, but of course people can believe whatever makes them feel better to justify the fact that they are considered a "bad investment" in the views of those with real power/word/saying, also known as those with money in their wallets.
Finally, if something that I want does not exist out there, I'm not going to throw $ and hope it happens. If I lived in a world with "zombies" or "monkeys" where they all either entertain themself dancing around a fire or throwing rocks at each other I would simply create my own entertainment or find reasons to enjoy their entertainment. If they can enjoy it, surely I can as well...
Bottom line is...some already have stated in this thread what I pointed out, some of the types of people involved in "kickstarter" projects. I mean seriosly, if I had 30 million that I choose to spend on a ticket to space just so afterwards I came to ask $ from the public to fund my 1 million project that I intend to make further money afterwards...how more low can you get than that?
Do yourself a favor and be smart with your $ the way I've been since it's our only way we can truly express what we want and as mentioned before despite having so much experience with gaming in the last 3+ years I've spent $0.00 because everything that was released was not aimed at me and I've found other ways to enjoy life in meantime....and save far more $ in the process.
Comments
First of all, I'll address your self-entitled attitude. Let me tell you that you're not a unique and beautiful butterfly. You might think that you're brilliant, but "ideas" are a dime a dozen. Doesn't matter how amazing it is. I guarantee that whatever ideas are bouncing around in that brain of yours have been tossed around a boardroom table more than once.
Secondly, you'd never survive in the game industry. You know why? The game industry is filled with people who will do, literally, whatever it takes to get the job done, including working insane hours for no additional money, putting their own money into a project, working from home, sacrificing their social and family lives to see a game to fruition. I worked in the game industry for less than a year as a level designer and I can tell that you don't have the foggiest idea of what is involved with making a game and what these people sacrifice to do it.
I'm really sorry to rain on your parade, but if you wanted to be in the game industry, you'd be in it, doing it yourself. HeroEngine is $99 a year and I'm pretty sure you can use completely free modelling tools with it now, so what's your excuse? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? You think that a Game Designer is just someone with a great idea, but it's someone who EXECUTES a great idea!
Re: Kickstarter, I've backed many a project on Kickstarter and let me say that you are entirely wrong. See the big misconception about gaming is that big studios want to do innovative things. In reality, big studios want to create accessible, familiar, profitable titles. They want massively successful titles, not smaller niche titles. Kickstarter drives innovation. If you're content with the same, tired, gaming experience year-in and year-out, you just leave that money in your pocket, then. My guess is that you'll probably never buy another game at that rate.
Think about it, Ouya, Oculus Rift, The Repopulation, Broken Age (aka Double Fine Adventure), Dark Sky, Cards Against Humanity, Camelot Unchained, other things people obviously cared about. The fact is that, for the most part, it is almost impossible to get someone to throw money at these ideas in a corporate environment. Your assertion that successful Kickstarter projects aren't accountable and can just die off and disappear with your money is entirely incorrect. The people responsible for the project are legally obligated to deliver what they promise, as outlined in the Kickstarter TOS. If there was a large project which just disappeared with people's money, you could create a class action law suit and you'd probably win.
I can't think of a single project off the top of my head that didn't deliver. I think that you hear about a lot of projects delivering later than their estimated delivery date, but that's no different than any game. Look at Duke Nukem Forever, it only took like 10 years to release. It can be a gamble, I suppose, but if you want to promote innovation, it's a great medium for it, as long as you're smart about it. So, for instance, yes, you could create a Kickstarter for these amazing ideas you have, but unless you had something to actually show, it's not likely that you're going to get what you need to make a go of it. Also, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Use your brain, just like any other situation.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I stopped reading after: "I'll never get return for my "investment".
There really isnt a point to continue after that.
I don't Kickstart either, I buy finished products, I don't even play betas, I won't touch it until it's been on the actual market for a considerable amount of time so I can see exactly how it plays. I don't want to invest, I want to play. I have no faith that anyone on Kickstarter is going to produce a game that's as good as they claim that it will be. Who knows, if I donated to an MMO project, by the time it actually comes out, I may no longer want to play MMOs, then what?
Take the risk, put your own money and the money of actual investors into your project, make it real, make it exceptional, then ask me for money. You're not getting it until then.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Kickstarters are risky, but you can mitigate some of the risk by doing extensive research of each campaign.
Or... improve our finances by improving our selves and/or upgrading our professions. We would end up with so much more discretionary income, we could invest in 'every' slightly interesting kickstarter with zero chance of negatively impacting our lives.
On a side note, I really wish our society encouraged more risk taking instead of just rewarding seniority.
-WL
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
Looks like someone is a true Floridian! Egmont Key and Ybor, quite the combination. For $1500 you could set up a photo shoot in the scenic Castle with the Senator (nsfw)!
On the topic of Kickstarters, I think far too many people are overly angry and distrustful. You are not forced to Kickstarters anything. I've Kickstarters several projects. I've really enjoyed several games I backed, including FTL which I still play weekly for about an hour to an hour and a half. That's a pretty good value. I even got a soundtrack out of it and my car is now a spaceship.
It's completely unreasonable to assume a project on Kickstarter won't ever see the light of day. It's actually quite easy to just take a look at who is involved in the project,what their plans are, and what they have so far. If you can't figure out which projects are unlikely to be up to your standards, then you probably shouldn't back anything. Some people are getting value from their investment, and you aren't forced to, so why would you have a problem with it?
The fact is, there are projects that would not have existed without Kickstarter. It is far different getting fans of a person,company, genre, or idea to fund a project and getting a company based on maximizing profits to fund one. They are not equal. Giving creative people more options, and arguably more freedom is always a good thing. I suppose at the end of the day, you have to be willing to risk your money on a project that is potentially closer to a creator's true vision but with less of a budget or a project with a larger budget but with producers calling some shots. Weigh the options, and stop whining about alternative options.
Very well put.
You clearly have no idea what kickstarter is about.. but hey they are not forcing you to support them at that ponit.. wait for the game to be released its your choice..
Kickstarter is not an investment..
Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
SoE is asking $99 to people for access to a BETA for theri new Disney version of EQ. Not the actual game, BETA.
I'd rather back a kickstarter project that interests me.
OP, I think you misunderstand the nature of what a Kickstarter really is. It's a DONATION not an investment and not a purchase of goods. It's essentialy the same thing as handing a kid a few bucks so that he can buy paints and a brush to paint a mural on the wall of a building in your neighborhood or tossing a few coins in a street muisican's case before he starts playing. It goes back to the old fashioned concept of PATRONAGE of artists.
You are giving away a few dollars to someone who you think is worthy of producing creative works so they MIGHT produce those works. There is absolutely no assurance of what might result from that. It's based entirely on faith....and there is no quid qo pro. If you give, you should do so only if you are comfortable with getting nothing back in return. You may be given a "thank you" reward in return....but you shouldn't really count on the value of that. If you don't have faith in the people you are DONATING to then you probably shouldn't be donating. That's it.
"Finally, any game I see involved in a "kickstarter" is just a bad publicity in my eyes and I would stay away from it. If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project. "
This is where you lost me.
The difference between Kickstarter and traditionally funded games is that in a traditional funders are multi-million dollar publishers or glorified loan-sharks. Basically rich people. Kickstarter games are funded by "little people", lots of common people donating money to get a project going.
Neither means of funding a game qualifies it as particularly worthy of being developed.. Both can lead to crap games, both could hypothetically lead to great games.
This isn't entirely correct.
Kickstarter has a few safety nets to prevent people from scamming, and to ensure people actually begin work on their project and meet deadlines. You can't just put out a kick-starter, get money, and not do anything.
But you don't have to guarantee to actually release a product. And what if people do nothing, KS is going to sue them?
And i would rather do neither. No one says you have to give ANYONE money for an incomplete, or a non-existing game.
Because we never pay for anything that we do not use.
Every November I don't select anything beyond what I am required by law.
I don't select anything over minimum coverage for my car or homeowners/renters insurance
I have never paid a small extra fee on any line of credit that will make my payments if something were to cause me to be unable to make those payments in the future.
Odd how I have not used my health insurance for anything other than the required physical so I do not have to pay the Obama premium. I have never filed a claim with any of my insurance companies. And I have never become unable to pay my bills due to losing a job or injury etc. but yet I still continue to make purchases not knowing I will ever see that money put to use.
Yes, Kickstarter will sue them on your behalf. The "legal-ese" fine-print is massive, and they have a precedent of doing exactly that.
Because half of it was sarcasm........did you not get that?
It was just as hypocritical as those who come here make these types of posts and then go fire up TOR or gladly put down for the Imperial edition of TESO
"Hey I won't Kickstart a game made by guys who made good games in the past!"
"Id rather buy a fully produced game that is garbage!"
See look at that, its sarcasm again!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
"If people don't have the funds to make something that means they are unworthy to develop the project."
*facepalm*
I had different reasons for not wanting to ever kickstarter something before. The a game called, HEX, came along. It offered a wide variety of packages. One being called a Pro Player Tier for $250.00.
Now this tier gave me among tons of packs and cards of the first set, a free draft once a week for life of the game. Considering I played magic the gathering and a draft cost oh..$15.00 a pop you do the math. In HEX, it will cost $7.00 normally.
With this I can easily see that I'll make out like a bandit by the end of the first year alone, so I decided to not only purchase one, but bought 2. Now the game is still in Alpha, but it will garner strength once in open beta and full release. Meaning if I ever do decide to sell them accounts, they will be more than double the value. The developers also have not in anyway specifically stated they will do anything about third party selling (ALA MTGO) as they should not. This leads my free cards and packs from winning to directly make me a profit if I go that route.
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Now among other things, kickstarter offers all kinds of advantages and even special promos. To say that you'll never have a hand in making something is absurd. Sometimes dropping a twenty could pay off in the long run.
Not particularly relevent. It can prevent an outright scam but it can't assure that what's being produced has any real worth or value to the person DONATING.... and it is a DONATION not an investment. Recent changes in the law have oppened up the possibility to do small scale investing... that wasn't even possible for most people until recently due to federal law...but that's an entirely different venue from Kickstarter.
If you want to do that, go somewhere else, if you want to buy a product, go somewhere else. If you want to make a DONATION to a creative project that you feel may be worthy, that's what Kickstarter is for....but realize that there is no assurance that the end product will be worthwhile....that is based entirely on your faith in the producers of the project.
P.S. I like Kickstarter.....I think it's a great venue to get creative products made that would otherwise be impossible due to inability to get traditional funding. I think it puts power back in the hands of consumers and small independant producers and nothing could be better. I've donated to a few projects there myself. However people really need to understand what it is and what it isn't.
I love kickstarter but I mentioned 1 failed project i donated to earlier
this was it...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1966715102/flip-52-flipping-an-awkward-date-to-a-good-one/comments?cursor=5807303#comment-5807302
kickstarter isn't doing anything to help the failed project
EQ2 fan sites
Firstly, thx for all the replays, trying to share your views and insight on the kickstarter concept...now back on topic.
To all who defend kickstarter as a donation/charity cause. Donation/charity causes as far as I know do not use your money afterwards to "make more money" for personal benefits.
Some might argue the statement "people without the $ are unworthy to develop the project". Truth is if they were worthy in first place they would have publishers/investors backing them, but of course people can believe whatever makes them feel better to justify the fact that they are considered a "bad investment" in the views of those with real power/word/saying, also known as those with money in their wallets.
Finally, if something that I want does not exist out there, I'm not going to throw $ and hope it happens. If I lived in a world with "zombies" or "monkeys" where they all either entertain themself dancing around a fire or throwing rocks at each other I would simply create my own entertainment or find reasons to enjoy their entertainment. If they can enjoy it, surely I can as well...
Bottom line is...some already have stated in this thread what I pointed out, some of the types of people involved in "kickstarter" projects. I mean seriosly, if I had 30 million that I choose to spend on a ticket to space just so afterwards I came to ask $ from the public to fund my 1 million project that I intend to make further money afterwards...how more low can you get than that?
Do yourself a favor and be smart with your $ the way I've been since it's our only way we can truly express what we want and as mentioned before despite having so much experience with gaming in the last 3+ years I've spent $0.00 because everything that was released was not aimed at me and I've found other ways to enjoy life in meantime....and save far more $ in the process.