Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

ArcheAge is now Westernized even in South Korea

RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591

Refer to this link to see what I mean: http://archeagesource.com/topic/2481-real-talk-10-and-the-true-westernization-of-archeage/

 

I am beyond crushed by this... I was truly hoping to make ArcheAge my sandbox MMO... And now? Now, my hopes are dashed...  After getting hyped for GW2 I'm not falling for the hype trap ever again, so that means I'm one of those rare people who hasn't given into the hype of EQ Next and plan on continuing to be skeptical until I can actually play the game (not to mention the odd graphics leave something to be desired, at least for me).

Smile

«1

Comments

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Almost no-one has played it, so what they've never played they won't miss.  I hope it hasn't been dumbed down too much though.
  • steelwindsteelwind Member UncommonPosts: 352
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    Refer to this link to see what I mean: http://archeagesource.com/topic/2481-real-talk-10-and-the-true-westernization-of-archeage/

     

    I am beyond crushed by this... I was truly hoping to make ArcheAge my sandbox MMO... And now? Now, my hopes are dashed...  After getting hyped for GW2 I'm not falling for the hype trap ever again, so that means I'm one of those rare people who hasn't given into the hype of EQ Next and plan on continuing to be skeptical until I can actually play the game (not to mention the odd graphics leave something to be desired, at least for me).

    It is important to point out that South Korea is the only region that has gotten this update thus far. Much can still change and we expect to hear a statement from XL Games this week regarding the version 1.0 changes. While no one expects a full rollback (not ALL the changes are bad), trading and crafting both need serious attention after this update and based on all the extremely negative feedback they have gotten (especially in Korea), something will likely be done to address these issues.

    As of this moment, Scott Hartsman is in Korea for an unknown reason. Hopefully it is to discuss these changes and how they affect the NA release.

  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460

    Well, they have to do something to try and save that sinking ship.

    It has flopped in every country it released in so far which means had they given the Western countries the first iteration of the game, it would have likely flopped there too.

  • steelwindsteelwind Member UncommonPosts: 352
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Well, they have to do something to try and save that sinking ship.

    It has flopped in every country it released in so far which means had they given the Western countries the first iteration of the game, it would have likely flopped there too.

    Despite many issues, AA pre-1.0 would have had a very loyal niche following. It would be "that game" for many and regardless was a gigantic leap from what many are used to here in the states. After 1.0, AA has lost some of it's identity and instead of building on what made AA unique, they built on what made it the same.

    You have to realize many of AA critisisms prior to 1.0 were heavily based on personal taste (cars, bikiniis, subs, etc). What most peeps didnt realize is that was just fluff in a sea of other engaging features and were blown way, way out of proportion. There was still PvP, there was still sand in the sandbox, the world still felt massive and incredibly immersive. So while they did add many things that left many scratching their heads, very little affected the absolute core of the game and players could still "choose" to play it how they found enjoyable. Unfortunately after 1.0, was the first TRUE blow to the core of the game and it's base mechanics. IMHO this is the first step in the wrong direction of "westernization".

  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460
    Originally posted by steelwind
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Well, they have to do something to try and save that sinking ship.

    It has flopped in every country it released in so far which means had they given the Western countries the first iteration of the game, it would have likely flopped there too.

    Despite many issues, AA pre-1.0 would have had a very loyal niche following. It would be "that game" for many and regardless was a gigantic leap from what many are used to here in the states. After 1.0, AA has lost some of it's identity and instead of building on what made AA unique, they built on what made it the same.

    You have to realize many of AA critisisms prior to 1.0 were heavily based on personal taste (cars, bikiniis, subs, etc). What most peeps didnt realize is that was just fluff in a sea of other engaging features and were blown way, way out of proportion. There was still PvP, there was still sand in the sandbox, the world still felt massive and incredibly immersive. So while they did add many things that left many scratching their heads, very little affected the absolute core of the game and players could still "choose" to play it how they found enjoyable. Unfortunately after 1.0, was the first TRUE blow to the core of the game and it's base mechanics. IMHO this is the first step in the wrong direction of "westernization".

    It's possible that it would have enjoyed a dedicated subscriber base but that's still a gamble. The company needs to do whatever they can to salvage the situation. If all else does fail then they should just bow to fate and give the community what it wants (to maintain said niché base)

    I don't think they're taking it in the right direction personally either. Frankly it is a game that has been plagued with issues from the outset so maybe the developers just aren't that competent.

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785

    So I took the time to read through that person's list of changes. I'm a bit confused why they're considered "western" - most of that stuff doesn't typically exist in Western MMO's.

    Lower TTK - Korean players wanted faster ttk, apparently they got what they asked for.

    Loyalty system - Sounds like a specifically eastern MMO feature. Western games don't typically give you rewards for logging in each day whereas Asian MMOs love to do that. Hell I still have some that spam my email saying, "log in now and get 3 free potions and what not."

    Crafting takes longer to max - I dunno, has nothing to do with either.

    Lifescore points - Decidedly Asian MMO feature. Most western MMO's just let you craft and click your button (a common complaint on this forum), Asian MMO's seem to have a separate group of points or fatigue type system that interacts with crafting.

    Actually, I don't think I will list everything one by one - I was going back and forth to comment on them but I don't care enough. Needless to say, "Westernized" means something totally different to that particular player or the OP in this thread than it does in reality. Nothing about those changes sounds like what we usually experience on this end of the MMO spectrum.

  • steelwindsteelwind Member UncommonPosts: 352
    Originally posted by Rusque

    So I took the time to read through that person's list of changes. I'm a bit confused why they're considered "western" - most of that stuff doesn't typically exist in Western MMO's.

    Lower TTK - Korean players wanted faster ttk, apparently they got what they asked for.

    Loyalty system - Sounds like a specifically eastern MMO feature. Western games don't typically give you rewards for logging in each day whereas Asian MMOs love to do that. Hell I still have some that spam my email saying, "log in now and get 3 free potions and what not."

    Crafting takes longer to max - I dunno, has nothing to do with either.

    Lifescore points - Decidedly Asian MMO feature. Most western MMO's just let you craft and click your button (a common complaint on this forum), Asian MMO's seem to have a separate group of points or fatigue type system that interacts with crafting.

    Actually, I don't think I will list everything one by one - I was going back and forth to comment on them but I don't care enough. Needless to say, "Westernized" means something totally different to that particular player or the OP in this thread than it does in reality. Nothing about those changes sounds like what we usually experience on this end of the MMO spectrum.

    Here are the big ones:

    1. Labor points can now be purchased at the cash shop and purchased on the AH. Prior to 1.0, the only thing that got you more labor points was in-game playtime (regen).

    2. Trading was simplified. Increased rewards while closing off trading for gold to enemy territories which broke OW-PvP. Trade routes are now short.

    3. Delphi now only attainable via daily quests. This is the currency you need to build stuff (ships, houses, etc). Prior to the change, dephi was obtained via trading, fishing, or treasure hunting. Now they can only be obtained via daily questing.

    4. Labor points now required for rent in addition to a dramatic increase in overall labor consumption with the solution being buy labor on the cash shop. This also applies to VIP accounts as well not just f2p. Rent used to be payed via gold aquired from the many means the game provided.

    5. Crafting weapons and gear which is heavily RNG based is now also tied to trading thus making the risk far out weigh the reward. This is greatly detailed in the thread listed at the top at AASource.

    6. New zone was placed in the Northern Cont uncontested (ie safezone). The northern cont was always supposed to be contested territory thus lending itself to heavy pvp. Now the new zone is a safe zone.

    7. New northern zone (library), entirely based on daily quests which is also the preferred way to level to the new level cap of 55 via daily quests.

    There are more but these are the game breakers imho.

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    Originally posted by steelwind

    Here are the big ones:

    1. Labor points can now be purchased at the cash shop and purchased on the AH. Prior to 1.0, the only thing that got you more labor points was in-game playtime (regen).

    And cash shops are a western phenomenon? No, we adopted them from Asian MMO which have been using them since I can remember.

    2. Trading was simplified. Increased rewards while closing off trading for gold to enemy territories which broke OW-PvP. Trade routes are now short.

    What does this have to do with westernization?

    3. Delphi now only attainable via daily quests. This is the currency you need to build stuff (ships, houses, etc). Prior to the change, dephi was obtained via trading, fishing, or treasure hunting. Now they can only be obtained via daily questing.

    Yeah, sounds extremely Asian grindy style. Another thing that western games adopted. We didn't invent dailies. That's an eastern thing that has become commonplace in MMO's.

    4. Labor points now required for rent in addition to a dramatic increase in overall labor consumption with the solution being buy labor on the cash shop. This also applies to VIP accounts as well not just f2p. Rent used to be payed via gold aquired from the many means the game provided.

    Textbook Asian MMO. VIP accounts. Pushing people to cash shop to get more points to use in-game.

    5. Crafting weapons and gear which is heavily RNG based is now also tied to trading thus making the risk far out weigh the reward. This is greatly detailed in the thread listed at the top at AASource.

    RNG crafting is westernized? Again, total opposite, this is something I expect to see in an Asian MMO, not a western one.

    6. New zone was placed in the Northern Cont uncontested (ie safezone). The northern cont was always supposed to be contested territory thus lending itself to heavy pvp. Now the new zone is a safe zone.

    Are safezones a western thing? Maybe, I dunno, let's say yes.

    7. New northern zone (library), entirely based on daily quests which is also the preferred way to level to the new level cap of 55 via daily quests.

    Again, dailies were adopted by western MMO's from Asian ones.

    There are more but these are the game breakers imho.

    I'm not saying that any of the changes are good or bad, I'm not going to play the game. I'm just confused why the changes are being labeled as "westernization" when they have little to nothing to do with it.

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,950
    Originally posted by Rusque

    So I took the time to read through that person's list of changes. I'm a bit confused why they're considered "western" - most of that stuff doesn't typically exist in Western MMO's.

    Lower TTK - Korean players wanted faster ttk, apparently they got what they asked for.

    Loyalty system - Sounds like a specifically eastern MMO feature. Western games don't typically give you rewards for logging in each day whereas Asian MMOs love to do that. Hell I still have some that spam my email saying, "log in now and get 3 free potions and what not."

    Crafting takes longer to max - I dunno, has nothing to do with either.

    Lifescore points - Decidedly Asian MMO feature. Most western MMO's just let you craft and click your button (a common complaint on this forum), Asian MMO's seem to have a separate group of points or fatigue type system that interacts with crafting.

    Actually, I don't think I will list everything one by one - I was going back and forth to comment on them but I don't care enough. Needless to say, "Westernized" means something totally different to that particular player or the OP in this thread than it does in reality. Nothing about those changes sounds like what we usually experience on this end of the MMO spectrum.

    Exactly. This is more 'easternization' than anything.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • KeksXKeksX Member Posts: 47

    @Rusque:

    Sorry, TTK was increased instead of lowered. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Also, about the definition of westernization: These changes all symbolize one thing for me: Less freedom, fewer choices, more things I am required to do instead of more options I can do if I wanted to.

    That is basically what Westernization, at least to me, means. I do not care about lore, I do not care about language or comfort features. I care about gameplay features only and having instances, dailies and things that are a requirement instead of an option is a western thing for me. Not the grinding or the "hardcoreness" of something, but the limiting and linear gameplay. In my gaming past I played countless "asian grinders" and games similar to them. Thats not at all what is troubling me.

    ArcheAge, while it might have some "typical asian MMO" aspects to it, was really different. And it still is, but it is losing that spark slowly with every patch.

    Also, if you look at the thread a little bit more, you'll notice that I do not say that everyone of these changes is bad. Some changes are really good, I like that things are harder and take more time to aquire. In the specific example of Delphic Coins(required for Blueprints etc) I actually think such an increase in prize was needed. However, the way you get those Delphic Coins now, which is grinding hours of dailies everyday for weeks, is what kills the feature for me.

    I also realize that some features/changes are hard to understand in their entirety for someone who never played the game, but it is not easy to explain those things either, especially because many issues are things that are present for months now, if not years if you count CBT in.

  • steelwindsteelwind Member UncommonPosts: 352
    Originally posted by KeksX

    @Rusque:

    Sorry, TTK was increased instead of lowered. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Also, about the definition of westernization: These changes all symbolize one thing for me: Less freedom, fewer choices, more things I am required to do instead of more options I can do if I wanted to.

    That is basically what Westernization, at least to me, means. I do not care about lore, I do not care about language or comfort features. I care about gameplay features only and having instances, dailies and things that are a requirement instead of an option is a western thing for me. Not the grinding or the "hardcoreness" of something, but the limiting and linear gameplay. In my gaming past I played countless "asian grinders" and games similar to them. Thats not at all what is troubling me.

    Thanks Keksx, this is exactly what i was about to say.

    Also,

    NA is already saturated with themepark titles and hand-holding/limited options. It is hard to ignore that these changes came at the exact same time as NA/EU was about be to XL Game's focus for localization.  Since the overwhelming majority of the games released here are heavy themepark, every one of these changes learn toward themepark and move away from the sandbox. Obviously that is what we want here because that is all that is made.

    With version 1.0 you are rewarded for playing in the themepark and punished for playing in the sand...

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Well, they have to do something to try and save that sinking ship.

    It has flopped in every country it released in so far which means had they given the Western countries the first iteration of the game, it would have likely flopped there too.

    How do you figure ? Historically games that do well in asian do poorly here. Games that do well here are non-existent there with only a few exceptions like wow.

    We don't like the same types of games.

  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646

    There is a stigma on Westernization and Easternization that don't really hold true.  Such stereotypes as Westerners love sandbox's, Easterners love grinds, etc.

     

    From what I can witness, Asians don't like sandbox games much, which is also true for US/EU, outside of forum users.  You can see this with WoW, which has a higher customer base in Asia than US/EU (interpolated from past Blizzard quarterly results, with declared subs declining, while showing Asia/China growth, over the past years. - ie less US/EU more Asia).  WoW is known as themepark.

     

    XLGames is falling victim to their own society, and thus is making changes to impact their local customer base.  Not unreasonable .. after all it is a Korean company.  Their first order of business is to have immediate cash flow.

     

    Even still, saying ArcheAge is going full Themepark is a gross overstatement.  It never was sandbox .. merely sandpark.  The changes basically reduce mob XP, promote questing (where questing is available in select parts of the game), and nerf rewards for ganking PVP'ers (oh darn, what a shame! lol).  All the sandbox and roleplay elements are still there, to my knowledge.

     

    OP: Saying an Asian game is becoming westernized is a joke.  Asian MMORPG'ers like themeparks (amongst other types for sure), and that is where their internal industry gets money from.  Region independent however, if AA is profitable, then it could prove a point or 2 about the feasibility of a AAA sandbox / sandpark game.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552

    Don't know if it's "western" or "eastern" but I've never seen a game improved by adding more daily quests. This kills a bit of my interest in AA although I'll probably still try it out if they ever get it out over here.

     

  • TorcipTorcip Member UncommonPosts: 669
    You're labeling something as westernization when it has nothing to do with changing to fit a culture. What they are doing is making the game more casual. Westernizing would be doing things like making characters look more caucasian rather than asian, or giving Samurai's guns, or changing architecture to look less eastern. I know you may think the western world is all about the casual MMO, but I don't really see any hardcore asian MMOs either. Those are all Western as well. You can't change the definition of a word just because you want to.
  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Don't know if it's "western" or "eastern" but I've never seen a game improved by adding more daily quests. This kills a bit of my interest in AA although I'll probably still try it out if they ever get it out over here.

    Yeah I hope Trion has their ears on.  Stuff still could be modified by region, based on Trion's past statements about different versions (webcast a few weeks ago).

     

    Doing dailies as punishment for losing your package is OK (to max out points).  That's good incentive for not losing the package in the first place.  Fight for what you have and give it some effort!

     

    Doing dailies for the sake of doing dailies to slowly get points or currency to buy something (like blueprints for houses / ships) isn't very exciting.  I hope Trion looks at that portion of dailies deeply.

     

    Trion says they listen, and they even watch MMORPG.com.  Just because they said that though, keep your anti-cars, anti-swim suits out of this conversation please((!!!), because it's part of both lore and roleplaying :P [you know who you are]

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Well, they have to do something to try and save that sinking ship.

    It has flopped in every country it released in so far which means had they given the Western countries the first iteration of the game, it would have likely flopped there too.

    How do you figure ? Historically games that do well in asian do poorly here. Games that do well here are non-existent there with only a few exceptions like wow.

    We don't like the same types of games.

    That's kinda what I'm saying. If they released AA around the world at the same time, you'd of probably seen it flop the world over.

    The "westernization" is an attempt to ensure it is somewhat liked in the Western world I suppose.

    There are a handful of titles which have done OK in Western countries. Aion and TERA come to mind. The only big change they really made was the numbers. (to my knowledge anyway). This means EXP curves were reduced, gold drops were reduced and damage numbers were dropped across the board. No 900000 hits at level 4 with 56000 gold dropping while you kill 82000 mobs to reach level 5 basically.

    I was excited about this game when I first heard about it.. sadly I think by the time it ever comes out, it will already be well past its time.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    My view of "Westerinzation": Adding tons of pointless grind and limiting exploration... Oh, would you look at that... That describes almost every Western themepark MMO in the last decade or so.

    Smile

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    My view of "Westerinzation": Adding tons of pointless grind and limiting exploration... Oh, would you look at that... That describes almost every Western themepark MMO in the last decade or so.

    Razee... what you just said... just sounds like this to most people

    image
  • KeksXKeksX Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by Torcip
    You're labeling something as westernization when it has nothing to do with changing to fit a culture. What they are doing is making the game more casual. Westernizing would be doing things like making characters look more caucasian rather than asian, or giving Samurai's guns, or changing architecture to look less eastern. I know you may think the western world is all about the casual MMO, but I don't really see any hardcore asian MMOs either. Those are all Western as well. You can't change the definition of a word just because you want to.

    I hardly believe that there is a dictionary definition of the westernization of MMOs.

     

    Let's just agree that the wording was dumb and focus on the content :)

    @SuperNick:

    "The "westernization" is an attempt to ensure it is somewhat liked in the Western world I suppose."

    Yes, I believe this is true. Sadly, it's not meant to appeal to the "sandbox players" but to the existent Themepark players :/

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    My view of "Westerinzation": Adding tons of pointless grind and limiting exploration... Oh, would you look at that... That describes almost every Western themepark MMO in the last decade or so.

    Yes, that's exactly what I mean. That's the opposite of westernization. MMO's in the west were less about grinding dailies and limited freedom until Asian games influenced them.

    That's where the stereotypical phrase "Asian grinder" comes from. No one says, "Oh, that's a US/EU Grinder" because they were brought over from Korea and China mostly.

    Western Themeparks developed the way they did because they started to adopt various features from Asian MMO's. Again, I'm not saying any particular feature is good or bad (everything has a positive and negative to it), I'm just saying, it doesn't make sense to claim increased grinding is "westernizing" something.

    If anything ArcheAge is becoming MORE Asian, you just happen not to like some of the changes.

  • 43%burnt43%burnt Member UncommonPosts: 162
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    My view of "Westerinzation": Adding tons of pointless grind and limiting exploration... Oh, would you look at that... That describes almost every Western themepark MMO in the last decade or so.

    That's not your view of "Westernisation", it's a made-up definition you pulled out of your ass. As it discribes pretty much every "Eastern" MMO in existence. There's a reason for the term "mindless Asia grinder" to exist. Westernization would discribe things like the removal of a stamina/energy system, lessening the grind, adding more ingame models, tuning down the weeaboo-factor, removal of auto-questing and hell, even the localization.

  • LahuzerLahuzer Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Holy crap. I went from YAY when it came to AA to a BIG NAY!!! If this makes it to our version. I won't touch this game even if they throw labour points at me for free.
  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499
    OP had false hope to begin with. Even before it's Westernization it was an obvious WoW clone, the only difference being more emphasis on crafting and nothing to do at max level(attained in a few days btw).
  • KeksXKeksX Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    OP had false hope to begin with. Even before it's Westernization it was an obvious WoW clone, the only difference being more emphasis on crafting and nothing to do at max level(attained in a few days btw).

    Strongly disagree. I played ArcheAge for a long time and only did a few instance runs and that was because I was forced to by my friendsbecause they couldn't find anyone else to do it.

    I spent most of my time sailing, pvping and crafting/harvesting. I wouldn't say thats what you hear from a typical WoW player.

Sign In or Register to comment.