Originally posted by mcrippins I see nothing really surprising about this. This game's content is to make content for another game. From what I have read - there's no real objective other than to create stuff. If I somehow missed that there was something to actually kill, fight, train, learn, or compete against, then perhaps I am wrong.
Oh come on, for goodness sake, this is a frigging revolution!
I can't EVER recall any of the big MMOs having their NDA lifted in ALPHA! These days especially, see ESO, they rather keep it intact until the last day before launch!
This really IS the new SOE. Consider me impressed.
EQN_L is still a shell of a game, and shows little how EQN will be, but I already had a good feeling. Those first hours in Landmarks reminded me of my early days in SWG, which is a very good thing.
Oh and it's is that you are mistaken, about a great many things! ^^ NOW Landmarks has no quests, nothing to kill or fight, but it will have. It will get mobs, and players will be able to make quests. Yes it is no traditional MMO, but come on, SOE is taking a huge risk with a Alpha NDA lift. It is a great move for true transparency.
Well played SOE.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
Originally posted by Beanpuie So... any law against some one making a thread with a list of twitch.tv links in a thread for round the clock footage of alpha testing?
if I recall the rules here do not state you cant give links to gaming streams as long as you are not adverting something that gets you money, and that the game is not behind a NDA.
Since this game doesnt have an NDA, you are free to do it.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Since NDA has been lifted, I feel safe posting this now.
Q: Is it a massive multi-player online game?
A: Yes.
I believe that answers the fued as to if its an MMO or not. Plain and simple. The game is NOT everyone's cup of tea, so what.
As to whats NOT in the game currently - and to those saying it's not an MMO because of it..
List of things to be working BEFORE CLOSED BETA:
Combat (pve) including death and a death penalty, Guilds, Groups, Marketplace, In-game Mail, Collaborations (co-op building between players), Player Merchants, and more. Again this is all slated to be in game BEFORE CLOSED BETA.
Originally posted by mcrippins I see nothing really surprising about this. This game's content is to make content for another game. From what I have read - there's no real objective other than to create stuff. If I somehow missed that there was something to actually kill, fight, train, learn, or compete against, then perhaps I am wrong.
Oh come on, for goodness sake, this is a frigging revolution!
I can't EVER recall any of the big MMOs having their NDA lifted in ALPHA! These days especially, see ESO, they rather keep it intact until the last day before launch!
This really IS the new SOE. Consider me impressed.
EQN_L is still a shell of a game, and shows little how EQN will be, but I already had a good feeling. Those first hours in Landmarks reminded me of my early days in SWG, which is a very good thing.
Oh and it's is that you are mistaken, about a great many things! ^^ NOW Landmarks has no quests, nothing to kill or fight, but it will have. It will get mobs, and players will be able to make quests. Yes it is no traditional MMO, but come on, SOE is taking a huge risk with a Alpha NDA lift. It is a great move for true transparency.
Well played SOE.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
the product they announced 5 - 6 years ago were scrapped....instead we had Planetside 2, certainly because they could get that released faster than a new EQ.
Originally posted by Fenrisl1234 What about Elder Scroll Online NDA? Any news or they'll let us buy the game without knowing anything?
You could "buy" Landmark quite a few months before that NDA lift (and before alpha started)
Yeppers..
And this isn't a company trying to break out into the MMO world. This is a company with a full stable of them.
Good on them for dropping the NDA. But even though EQ (as it was *then*) was my first true love in the MMO world, SoE has continually irritated the crap out of me. As bad as I thought Verant was, I miss the time when they ran EQ and SoE was (kinda) just the publisher.
And (imo) EQN, disregarding Landmark (which is even further from the mark of course), has nothing to do with the EverQuest saga. Again, imo, they are shitting on their longest-term fans. Included in this, but only a part of it, is the shift in art style.
Sorry for the rant.. No I'm not, but I am sorry you had to see it.
Umm.. Something I should point out - Honestly, to everyone that is excited for EQN and/or enjoying EQN:L, I hold no ill will toward you and wish you the best of luck and hope you have a great time.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
you mean an alpha test where you can get reimbursed all the money you put in if you don't like it or the experience?
So are you denying that Blizzard has changed directions, went back to the drawing board on Titan just like Sony did which is why it has taken this long which pertains to the comment I made or are you just talking to talk?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by sanshi44 There possibly less bugs in this alpha than 90% of open beta ived played :P Landmarks is probaly the one game ive been able to play for 5+ hours at a time for a long long time haha Such a great game cant wait till see them polish it up add what they wanted and see how i can help the development come along. Im so eager to see the transition from alpha to beta to released
I am wondering if those 90% of open beta's you played where similar to a Voxel Online Game like EQL?
But perhaps I am the only one conidering EQL to be a new segment within the MMO genre. And to me due to that not really possible to compare it to other MMOrpg in the more traditional sense.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
you mean an alpha test where you can get reimbursed all the money you put in if you don't like it or the experience?
So are you denying that Blizzard has changed directions, went back to the drawing board on Titan just like Sony did which is why it has taken this long which pertains to the comment I made or are you just talking to talk?
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
you mean an alpha test where you can get reimbursed all the money you put in if you don't like it or the experience?
So are you denying that Blizzard has changed directions, went back to the drawing board on Titan just like Sony did which is why it has taken this long which pertains to the comment I made or are you just talking to talk?
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
How exactly is that a bad thing? They are making an open offer with the ability to refund. People are free to choose that. They are essentially presenting a transparent, minimal risk offer with an option to join later and not pay. So again, how is that bad?
Developers throughout history usually pay people to test their games, especially alpha test them. Regardless if they offer an optional refund, they are happily accepting money from loyal fans who are helping them. This isn't a finished product, nor is it a beta product. They should not be accepting money from consumers to test it, regardless of how genuine they are. If you disagree with that, then so be it, but don't act like charging fans to perform a task most develops hire teams for, with an "optional refund", is a noble thing.
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
SOME people don't care about "Alpha testing", some DO in this case because you get creative input on gameplay design.
That, has value to some people because you don't get that ANYPLACE ELSE. Others are doing this for the items you get which is no different than pre-ordering a game and getting bonus items, and early access.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Always a good laugh when it's not enough for people to say I wont pay that, and have to take it to no one should pay that and the company is bad for even asking!
Originally posted by DamonVile Always a good laugh when it's not enough for people to say I wont pay that, and have to take it to no one should pay that and the company is bad for even asking!
Ya, totally unreasonable to think a company should not accept money from loyal fans helping them alpha test their game.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
People seem a little ignorant of what Landmark will be, once it is finalized and has everything in it. People can make dungeons, maybe even raids, their will be mobs, crafting for armor/weapons that give you abilities, instead of classes doing it. Themes are open outside of the main continent I believe.
Hey, I don't know if I will be a huge fan of the final product, and I am more excited (and skeptical) for EQN, but they have said they will give people access to the tools of EQN, to make quests, dungeons, and use the story bricks AI.
You also will be able to have PvP, if you wish.
It will take a while for it all to flesh out, and in the end, it could be the real hit for SoE, not EQN.... I am skeptical of how well it will all work out in the end, but until they fail to make it happen, I have no real reason to say it isn't going to, excluding throwing some one line, ignorant statements out there.
I liked SWG, but people seem to give LA a pass and blame SoE/Smed, I don't. When you have a IP and they have final say, and can jack up the license fee to basically put you out of business, not much you can do. If I were making a mmo, I would not use a popular IP, unless I owned it. Even if it is a success, they can jack up the fees on you, and make you do things you do not want to, if they have final say (which they often do). I didn't like the way they left VG in limbo, yeah they saved it, but they saved it to put it on life support and 1-2 people working on it for years... They never seemed to care for the title.
So hate SoE, heck the mmo company I dislike the most is EA (not for TOR...So save the, it is because SWG is gone and TOR is here stuff), but if they made something I wanted to play, I would play it. I play mmos for fun, the world, and the depth, so I don't care who it is, if they make a good one, I will play it.
Wasn't all this already done a few years back in Xsyon?
And then,
- your area is built up, nothing to do, check
- open PvP means limited fun, check
- becomes boring, most people leave, check
- You can have more than one area, check
- It is not FFA PvP, check
- all games become boring over time, check
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
How exactly is that a bad thing? They are making an open offer with the ability to refund. People are free to choose that. They are essentially presenting a transparent, minimal risk offer with an option to join later and not pay. So again, how is that bad?
Developers throughout history usually pay people to test their games, especially alpha test them. Regardless if they offer an optional refund, they are happily accepting money from loyal fans who are helping them. This isn't a finished product, nor is it a beta product. They should not be accepting money from consumers to test it, regardless of how genuine they are. If you disagree with that, then so be it, but don't act like charging fans to perform a task most develops hire teams for, with an "optional refund", is a noble thing.
I've been doing alpha and beta testing for about 10 years now. I've never been paid by a game company to test their game. I don't know any fellow tester that was paid to test a game unless they were an employee of the company.
Regardless of how any previous product was tested, every company and product conducts their development differently. There is not concrete industry standard that says development and testing must be defined this way or that. So don't act like you have the final word on how this is supposed to work or how others are supposed to conduct their development.
I have been part of Microsoft testing where I've only been invited because I was an already paying customer. Non-paying, non-licensed customers weren't part of the test program. Customers paying to test or have an input in development is not a new thing.
It sounds like you have a conception how you think testing should work and that's fine for you, your projects, or projects you want to participate in. That doesn't mean you define how that works for others.
You will notice that in all of the examples you gave, not one of them involved you paying to specifically test a product, let alone alpha test. That is the point I am making, and I am pretty sure you already understood that...because you made it a point to specify "for which I was already a paying customer". Exactly, you already purchased their products...that was your entry...there was no paying extra to do alpha testing. Again, you may disagree that accepting money fans to alpha test your game is crazy, but do not turn around and act like they are noble in the way they are charging.
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
you mean an alpha test where you can get reimbursed all the money you put in if you don't like it or the experience?
So are you denying that Blizzard has changed directions, went back to the drawing board on Titan just like Sony did which is why it has taken this long which pertains to the comment I made or are you just talking to talk?
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
But they did, they even said that they went back to the drawing board. Which is what I was commenting on. Sony did so which is why it has taken so long to get into alpah. Blizzard has also realized that the current environment for games has changed so "went back to teh drawing board".
So I'm not sure why you are addressing me with this "pay for alpha" comment because I mentioined nothing about that.
But that's how you commented.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
So we get a semi polish "alpha" for a game thats been in production for what, 5? 6 years? Impressed? Hardly.
if I recall the rules here do not state you cant give links to gaming streams as long as you are not adverting something that gets you money, and that the game is not behind a NDA.
Since this game doesnt have an NDA, you are free to do it.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Since NDA has been lifted, I feel safe posting this now.
Q: Is it a massive multi-player online game?
A: Yes.
I believe that answers the fued as to if its an MMO or not. Plain and simple. The game is NOT everyone's cup of tea, so what.
As to whats NOT in the game currently - and to those saying it's not an MMO because of it..
List of things to be working BEFORE CLOSED BETA:
Combat (pve) including death and a death penalty, Guilds, Groups, Marketplace, In-game Mail, Collaborations (co-op building between players), Player Merchants, and more. Again this is all slated to be in game BEFORE CLOSED BETA.
MMO? I say yes.
the product they announced 5 - 6 years ago were scrapped....instead we had Planetside 2, certainly because they could get that released faster than a new EQ.
Yeppers..
And this isn't a company trying to break out into the MMO world. This is a company with a full stable of them.
Good on them for dropping the NDA. But even though EQ (as it was *then*) was my first true love in the MMO world, SoE has continually irritated the crap out of me. As bad as I thought Verant was, I miss the time when they ran EQ and SoE was (kinda) just the publisher.
And (imo) EQN, disregarding Landmark (which is even further from the mark of course), has nothing to do with the EverQuest saga. Again, imo, they are shitting on their longest-term fans. Included in this, but only a part of it, is the shift in art style.
Sorry for the rant.. No I'm not, but I am sorry you had to see it.
Umm.. Something I should point out - Honestly, to everyone that is excited for EQN and/or enjoying EQN:L, I hold no ill will toward you and wish you the best of luck and hope you have a great time.
If what I have heard is true...that you have to pay to alpha test the game......are you really suprised that a paid alpha is NDA free?
If this is the "new SoE"...one charging fans real money to help them...alpha test their game.....can we please have the old SoE back?
And that fact that they started and restarted their game over the years, iterating, discarding things that didn't work, moving toward things that were interesting and then finally coming up with a concept that was worth it doesn't explain all those years in development?
Last I heard Blizzard is doign the same thing with their game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Point me to when the last time Blizz had the public apha test, let alone PAY to alpha test, one of their products.
you mean an alpha test where you can get reimbursed all the money you put in if you don't like it or the experience?
So are you denying that Blizzard has changed directions, went back to the drawing board on Titan just like Sony did which is why it has taken this long which pertains to the comment I made or are you just talking to talk?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am wondering if those 90% of open beta's you played where similar to a Voxel Online Game like EQL?
But perhaps I am the only one conidering EQL to be a new segment within the MMO genre. And to me due to that not really possible to compare it to other MMOrpg in the more traditional sense.
Regardless it's a great move coming from SOE.
Did I in any way imply that Blizz never changed directions on any of their games, or are you just talking just to talk?
Even if you are "happy", the fact remains that they are collecting money from people who are helping them alpha test their game, let alone beta test it.....do you not see the greed and insanity in that? That's worse than almost anything EA has ever done.
Developers throughout history usually pay people to test their games, especially alpha test them. Regardless if they offer an optional refund, they are happily accepting money from loyal fans who are helping them. This isn't a finished product, nor is it a beta product. They should not be accepting money from consumers to test it, regardless of how genuine they are. If you disagree with that, then so be it, but don't act like charging fans to perform a task most develops hire teams for, with an "optional refund", is a noble thing.
SOME people don't care about "Alpha testing", some DO in this case because you get creative input on gameplay design.
That, has value to some people because you don't get that ANYPLACE ELSE. Others are doing this for the items you get which is no different than pre-ordering a game and getting bonus items, and early access.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
EQN and EQNL are two different things, EQNL is a building system like minecraft. Them lifting the NDA on this isn't a big deal.
They aren't lifting the NDA on the MMO version of EQN.
Honestly I think they are hurting themselves with the naming system, many will try this and think this is the MMO version and be turned off it.
Ya, totally unreasonable to think a company should not accept money from loyal fans helping them alpha test their game.
Indeed, Gandalf old friend, it does.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Wasn't all this already done a few years back in Xsyon?
- open land area, check
- land rush to claim your spot, check
- primitive tools that you use to make better tools, check
- gather materials to make structures and more tools, check
- modify the terrain and add your own structures, check
- add mobs, check
- add combat, check
And then,
- your area is built up, nothing to do, check
- open PvP means limited fun, check
- becomes boring, most people leave, check
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
People seem a little ignorant of what Landmark will be, once it is finalized and has everything in it. People can make dungeons, maybe even raids, their will be mobs, crafting for armor/weapons that give you abilities, instead of classes doing it. Themes are open outside of the main continent I believe.
Hey, I don't know if I will be a huge fan of the final product, and I am more excited (and skeptical) for EQN, but they have said they will give people access to the tools of EQN, to make quests, dungeons, and use the story bricks AI.
You also will be able to have PvP, if you wish.
It will take a while for it all to flesh out, and in the end, it could be the real hit for SoE, not EQN.... I am skeptical of how well it will all work out in the end, but until they fail to make it happen, I have no real reason to say it isn't going to, excluding throwing some one line, ignorant statements out there.
I liked SWG, but people seem to give LA a pass and blame SoE/Smed, I don't. When you have a IP and they have final say, and can jack up the license fee to basically put you out of business, not much you can do. If I were making a mmo, I would not use a popular IP, unless I owned it. Even if it is a success, they can jack up the fees on you, and make you do things you do not want to, if they have final say (which they often do). I didn't like the way they left VG in limbo, yeah they saved it, but they saved it to put it on life support and 1-2 people working on it for years... They never seemed to care for the title.
So hate SoE, heck the mmo company I dislike the most is EA (not for TOR...So save the, it is because SWG is gone and TOR is here stuff), but if they made something I wanted to play, I would play it. I play mmos for fun, the world, and the depth, so I don't care who it is, if they make a good one, I will play it.
- You can have more than one area, check
- It is not FFA PvP, check
- all games become boring over time, check
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
You will notice that in all of the examples you gave, not one of them involved you paying to specifically test a product, let alone alpha test. That is the point I am making, and I am pretty sure you already understood that...because you made it a point to specify "for which I was already a paying customer". Exactly, you already purchased their products...that was your entry...there was no paying extra to do alpha testing. Again, you may disagree that accepting money fans to alpha test your game is crazy, but do not turn around and act like they are noble in the way they are charging.
But they did, they even said that they went back to the drawing board. Which is what I was commenting on. Sony did so which is why it has taken so long to get into alpah. Blizzard has also realized that the current environment for games has changed so "went back to teh drawing board".
So I'm not sure why you are addressing me with this "pay for alpha" comment because I mentioined nothing about that.
But that's how you commented.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo