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Is there an excessive sense of entitlement in F2P games?

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  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198

    Originally posted by Cephus404

     

    Free players are doing a lot more than that, they are providing content for the whales.  The whales want to play in a big populated world where they can show off all of the crap they buy.  That's why free players are there, to provide the eyes to look at the whale's high credit limits.  Without the free players, the whales would go elsewhere.

    Setting aside whether your point is correct, what does it have to do with whether some free players act excessively entitled?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • SaigwaSaigwa Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by LittleBoot

    I keep reading threads and comments whereby F2P players feel aggrieved that they are not receiving enough free content.  

    In what other walk of life and with what other product would this be an acceptable stance to take?  Many mmo's cost many millions to develop and that money has to be recouped somehow (and they need to turn a profit for their funders or they would not exist in the first place).  Where, do you suggest,  should this money be recovered from? 

    My view is simply this, a F2P player who makes no financial contribution to a game is in no position to complain about the free content they may or may not be receiving.  

    A player who pays a subscription, as with all other walks of life, should experience a discernibly improved experience over a player who pays nothing.  

    Now don't get me wrong, if a monetization model allows a game to sell aesthetic items only, then great.  But if it does not then a free player should quit complaining and move on. 

    As it stands the free content received by F2P players is paid for by a few whales who use the cash shop.  Free players should be thankful that there are items in the cash shop other players are prepared to buy or there would be no game and no content for them to experience at all. 

    They are my thoughts on the subject, what do you think? 

     

     

    Quite frankly, I agree to this to a point. If people want high quality tripple A games, they should be expected to have to pay up. NOTHING IS FREE IN THE WORLD, SORRY.    The problem is, free to play MMORPG's have been around for quite some time, people are wanting content to be free, even developing content. I have played both free to play and pay to play games. It takes  time and money for companies to develop new content. If a game were to be completely free, where the hell are they getting their money? The problem with FTP model is that the business makers must come up with a way to make the cash shops equal, yet profitable. If the cash shop is not profitable enough for the company, then they must make incentives, thus, making the full experience of the game not really free, and then people will start bitching.

    When you buy a console, you also have to buy the game that the developers made. How else do they get money to keep on being a buisness?? Even though MMORPGs are internet based, the concept still remains. The company needs money to pay people to develop more content. 

    Sure, we all want free things, afterall, its free. But here's the reality of things: Even though it is a GAME, there are still people in the real world who made that game, and it is the real world that is supplying the game with updates. Thus, we gotta pay up, because there is no escaping the reality that money drives the world.

    Now on a pay to play note, I do think that the monthly subscriptions can be a bit demanding. $13/month is roughly $156 a year. If a company also has cash shop items, thats even more. Although, from most of the pay to play games I tried, there were no cash shops as everything you'd find in one was already available in the game.  In addition, with free to play games, people easily spend hundreds within a year due to the cash shops advertisement and supplies which give players boosts. Because, let's be honest: who doesn't want to have the best supplies available to them? Players will become very immersed in a game, and most make spur of the moment purchases from the cash shops without analyzing. 

     

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by UNATCOII
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by UNATCOII

    Watch the video and learn that the whole "entitlement" idea is flawed.

    It's not about entitlement, it's about fairness.

    Fairness, seriously?  What's unfair about "the more you pay, the more you get?"  It would only become a fairness issue if two players were spending the exact same amount of money, and one was receiving substantially better service in return.  By definition, as long as all the players in a given tier are being treated the same (all free players, all subscribers, etc. etc.) then they are being treated fairly.

    Dead serious.

    You apparently don't understand the premise of that video, nor the *reaction*. The very *reaction* you're showing by asking me the question. ;)

    It's not about "more you pay, the more you get". It's about if A gets something B doesn't have, there's a cry of unfairness. And it's so universal most if not all mammals apparently display that tendency (as the video said the experiment was replicated with dogs and even birds).

    The *reaction* you're showing is the issue. You're the monkey on the left of the video, upset that the monkey on the right is fine with his reward. Despite the monkey on the right is doing the same task...he just gets a different reward.

    Get it yet?

    Imagine an IP like, I dunno, Star Wars, instead of a grape. It's all throughout the model.

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by Novusod
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Excellent!! +1

     

    It makes me laugh because this is so obvious and yet it completely slipped past me, because I think we are just so used to all this free stuff that we don't even think about it.

     

    But as soon as it rears its head in an MMO it is suddenly a horrible evil !!  image

    Again thanks for pointing out the obvious to me!

    It is not that gamers suddenly felt entitled to FREE content but the demand for FREE stuff has broader social context that is far beyond the scope of gaming and MMOs. It was more like the other way around where gamers thought their industry was so special they could ignore these broader FREE trends forever.

     

    The issue at hand was that gaming industry was very behind the curve when it comes to FREE transitions. I remember back in the early days of the internet when you had to Pay for your internet browser. I also used a paid email service between 1997-2002 called swirvemail. It had all the features that G-mail has now except it was in the 90s and you had to pay $19.99 a year for it. It was worth every penny to avoid using the dreadful POP3 protocol and Outlook express that exposed the PC to worms and viruses. Then Yahoo offered the FREE email and paid email pretty much disappeared. Internet Explorer and FireFox killed the paid browser. Times changed.

     

    When FREE MMOs started appearing there came this huge opposition. Really what makes MMOs so special that it could only be a paid service? Games are just like any other piece of FREE software on the internet. I look back on my old subscription MMOs like I do my paid email service and browser. Yes, they were nice for the time but those days are over. You can't live in the past. It is time to move along. The free games are NOT horrible. There is plenty of fun to be had in the F2P era as there was in the paid 2 play past.

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

    Really?

    Or are "whales" a result of a monopoly and manipulation, something everyone else would be in court for. There should really be a mechanism in the game to ensure there is competition in prices of the items in the shop.

    You don't think that would be better for consumers?

     

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

    Really?

    Or are "whales" a result of a monopoly and manipulation, something everyone else would be in court for. There should really be a mechanism in the game to ensure there is competition in prices of the items in the shop.

    You don't think that would be better for consumers?

     

     

    May be better for the whales, but certainly not better for the free players.

    And what monopoly? Video game is a fiercely competitive business. Look at all the choices. Heck, i wouldn't even play a game for free if it rubs me wrong even in the slightly way. And since most players don't play, i would say freedom of choice works.

     

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697

    I think it would work out better for most people if they adopted the style that Puzzle Pirates did and what I believe you can do with PLEX in EvE (haven't tried that game since sometime in the first year it was around).

     

    Make a game where a sub gets you the full game, access to everything, traditional MMO style. Make a limited free area/free level cap/free trial where you can do some but need a sub to actually get access to everything. Then let the whales buy as much currency as they want which can be used to buy subs (and if deemed necessary items in a store). Then let that currency be traded around in game for different things.

     

    It works for so many because 1) The whales can buy everything they need in game through buying currency and trading it to other players for what it is that they need. 2) Players who don't like to pay for a game can grind out items that are needed by other players to earn currency to fund their gaming.

     

    I'm not sure why so many companies have been resistant to this type of model and have either stuck with sub or gone all the way to f2p with store and no tradable buyable currency. This also makes it easier for people to bring their friends in by giving them enough currency to get their first month to try it out.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    I think it would work out better for most people if they adopted the style that Puzzle Pirates did and what I believe you can do with PLEX in EvE (haven't tried that game since sometime in the first year it was around).

     

    Make a game where a sub gets you the full game, access to everything, traditional MMO style. Make a limited free area/free level cap/free trial where you can do some but need a sub to actually get access to everything. Then let the whales buy as much currency as they want which can be used to buy subs (and if deemed necessary items in a store). Then let that currency be traded around in game for different things.

     

    It works for so many because 1) The whales can buy everything they need in game through buying currency and trading it to other players for what it is that they need. 2) Players who don't like to pay for a game can grind out items that are needed by other players to earn currency to fund their gaming.

     

    I'm not sure why so many companies have been resistant to this type of model and have either stuck with sub or gone all the way to f2p with store and no tradable buyable currency. This also makes it easier for people to bring their friends in by giving them enough currency to get their first month to try it out.

     

    Because other models make more money? It is not as easy, in this model, for a whale to click on and buy a $500 sword on an impulse.

     

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    I think it would work out better for most people if they adopted the style that Puzzle Pirates did and what I believe you can do with PLEX in EvE (haven't tried that game since sometime in the first year it was around).

     

    Make a game where a sub gets you the full game, access to everything, traditional MMO style. Make a limited free area/free level cap/free trial where you can do some but need a sub to actually get access to everything. Then let the whales buy as much currency as they want which can be used to buy subs (and if deemed necessary items in a store). Then let that currency be traded around in game for different things.

     

    It works for so many because 1) The whales can buy everything they need in game through buying currency and trading it to other players for what it is that they need. 2) Players who don't like to pay for a game can grind out items that are needed by other players to earn currency to fund their gaming.

     

    I'm not sure why so many companies have been resistant to this type of model and have either stuck with sub or gone all the way to f2p with store and no tradable buyable currency. This also makes it easier for people to bring their friends in by giving them enough currency to get their first month to try it out.

    EvE does have the best pay system I've seen so far. P2P for those who prefer subs; selling timecodes or PLEX for ISK; and Tradeskilling to buy PLEX ingame with ISK. It satisfies everyone.

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

    Really?

    Or are "whales" a result of a monopoly and manipulation, something everyone else would be in court for. There should really be a mechanism in the game to ensure there is competition in prices of the items in the shop.

    You don't think that would be better for consumers?

     

     

    May be better for the whales, but certainly not better for the free players.

    And what monopoly? Video game is a fiercely competitive business. Look at all the choices. Heck, i wouldn't even play a game for free if it rubs me wrong even in the slightly way. And since most players don't play, i would say freedom of choice works.

     

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

    Really?

    Or are "whales" a result of a monopoly and manipulation, something everyone else would be in court for. There should really be a mechanism in the game to ensure there is competition in prices of the items in the shop.

    You don't think that would be better for consumers?

     

     

    May be better for the whales, but certainly not better for the free players.

    And what monopoly? Video game is a fiercely competitive business. Look at all the choices. Heck, i wouldn't even play a game for free if it rubs me wrong even in the slightly way. And since most players don't play, i would say freedom of choice works.

     

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    then you will be really pleased with F2P MMOs .. there are so many that you can finish them all in a year even if you just play each one a week.

     

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
     

    I remember free web and net zero. Free internet was pretty damn nice. You need to be ale to make more and more money off of the people using the service year after year. Wonder what happened...is there still free internet. I honestly don't know. I guess dial up is free maybe?

    There is no "whales" for Free Internet. That is their problem.

     

    Really?

    Or are "whales" a result of a monopoly and manipulation, something everyone else would be in court for. There should really be a mechanism in the game to ensure there is competition in prices of the items in the shop.

    You don't think that would be better for consumers?

     

     

    May be better for the whales, but certainly not better for the free players.

    And what monopoly? Video game is a fiercely competitive business. Look at all the choices. Heck, i wouldn't even play a game for free if it rubs me wrong even in the slightly way. And since most players don't play, i would say freedom of choice works.

     

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    then you will be really pleased with F2P MMOs .. there are so many that you can finish them all in a year even if you just play each one a week.

     

    I like the one im playing. All I want is that item in the shop:( It's 500 dollars. It cost 3 cents to make 100000 of them.

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Free players are doing a lot more than that, they are providing content for the whales.  The whales want to play in a big populated world where they can show off all of the crap they buy.  That's why free players are there, to provide the eyes to look at the whale's high credit limits.  Without the free players, the whales would go elsewhere.

    Setting aside whether your point is correct, what does it have to do with whether some free players act excessively entitled?

    I think far too many people, free and sub, act absurdly entitled.  I think the majority of old-school gamers around here are ridiculously entitlement-happy.  You're looking at a problem that exists in society and pretending it's a function of a particular game style preference.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by UNATCOII
     

    Dead serious.

    You apparently don't understand the premise of that video, nor the *reaction*. The very *reaction* you're showing by asking me the question. ;)

    It's not about "more you pay, the more you get". It's about if A gets something B doesn't have, there's a cry of unfairness. And it's so universal most if not all mammals apparently display that tendency (as the video said the experiment was replicated with dogs and even birds).

    The *reaction* you're showing is the issue. You're the monkey on the left of the video, upset that the monkey on the right is fine with his reward. Despite the monkey on the right is doing the same task...he just gets a different reward.

    Get it yet?

    I see where my confusion came from.  I thought you were trying to make a point relevant to the topic, not just post a video of some monkeys.  We aren't talking about a situation where two different people do the same task and get different rewards.  The only "doing" relevant to the topic of this thread is paying, so we are talking about one individual (the completely free player) who is "doing" absolutely nothing, and then (in the case of the "entitled" free player) complaining that he is being insufficiently rewarded for his failure to do anything.

    Which brings me back to "Fairness, seriously?"  - Because the actual topic of this thread has nothing to do with fairness.  It would only be a fairness issue if some totally free players were being treated differently than other totally free players.  How those who pay are treated isn't really relevant to the question at hand.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • LittleBootLittleBoot Member Posts: 326
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    I believe Firefox makes its money by assigning Google as main browser, and Google makes its money through advertising.  This is in no way comparable to F2P games where one player effectively pays for another players free experience.  

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Free players are doing a lot more than that, they are providing content for the whales.  The whales want to play in a big populated world where they can show off all of the crap they buy.  That's why free players are there, to provide the eyes to look at the whale's high credit limits.  Without the free players, the whales would go elsewhere.

    Setting aside whether your point is correct, what does it have to do with whether some free players act excessively entitled?

    I think far too many people, free and sub, act absurdly entitled.  I think the majority of old-school gamers around here are ridiculously entitlement-happy.  You're looking at a problem that exists in society and pretending it's a function of a particular game style preference.

    Actually, I'm not.  I never claimed that the sense of entitlement is the result of the model, though I think it would be fair to say the totally free option attracts substantially greater numbers of the type of people in society who already have an entitlement mentality than would be attracted to a game without a totally free option.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    Anyone who thinks Free 2 Play games are designed and developed to be played free really doesn't understand how this market really works.  F2P games make on average more than sub games per player.  Every time one of these companies publishes financials this is supported.  Just because a handful of people buck the trend and torture themselves by playing the game for free doesn't mean it was designed that way.  Of course I don't understand someone spending all night in sub 0 weather for 50% off a TV on black Friday either but maybe that's just me.

    Personally I wouldn't call it so much entitlement as mastadistic. 

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    No. There is competition. They are free...totally free, because of competition. Im not talking about the Game, Im talking of the prices in the shop.

    Controlling the supply and demand is bad for customers amirite? Am I?

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by LittleBoot
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    I believe Firefox makes its money by assigning Google as main browser, and Google makes its money through advertising.  This is in no way comparable to F2P games where one player effectively pays for another players free experience.  

    It's very much comparable, F2P games set up free players as content for the whales.  Try again.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    No. There is competition. They are free...totally free, because of competition. Im not talking about the Game, Im talking of the prices in the shop.

    Controlling the supply and demand is bad for customers amirite? Am I?

     

    I don't think so.  They don't force anyone to buy anything out of the shop at all.  Maybe we can look at this from a little different perspective.  Wordpress is a popular blogging software that is totally free.  You can download it and  blog with absolutely no cost right now.  There are all kinds of plugins though that do cost money and you have a choice whether to use them or not. Most people do not, they blog completely free of charge.  Some people buy a few plugins.  Some people buy a lot.  It's all up to personal preference and personality.  I don't think controlling supply and demand is a bad thing at all, after all, EVERY MMO does it.  Want to use this super-sword?  You can't touch it until you reach level X.  That's controlling supply and demand.

    Cash shops exist to appeal to people with severe self-control issues.  I've never even been tempted to buy a single thing for real cash in a game cash-shop.  I have never, in my entire life, in a P2P or F2P game, bought anything in a cash shop and I never will.  I don't lack self-control.  Far too many people do.  That's their problem, not mine.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    Anyone who thinks Free 2 Play games are designed and developed to be played free really doesn't understand how this market really works.  F2P games make on average more than sub games per player.  Every time one of these companies publishes financials this is supported.  Just because a handful of people buck the trend and torture themselves by playing the game for free doesn't mean it was designed that way.  Of course I don't understand someone spending all night in sub 0 weather for 50% off a TV on black Friday either but maybe that's just me.

    Personally I wouldn't call it so much entitlement as mastadistic. 

    The studies have already been presented, the overwhelming majority of F2P players never buy anything in the cash shop. It's a very tiny minority that spend a lot of money.  It's not a handful of people, it's almost everyone.  If you average out what the whales spend, yes, these games make more than $15 per player, but the majority of players aren't paying more than $15, most are paying absolutely nothing at all.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • LittleBootLittleBoot Member Posts: 326
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by LittleBoot
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    I believe Firefox makes its money by assigning Google as main browser, and Google makes its money through advertising.  This is in no way comparable to F2P games where one player effectively pays for another players free experience.  

    It's very much comparable, F2P games set up free players as content for the whales.  Try again.

    What?  Did you just randomly string some words together and call it an argument? 

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    I like using firefox as my browser. If we were stuck with Microsoft only tools..yikes.

    And Firefox and Chrome are two free browsers.  Is it somehow wrong to use them for free because that's how they're offered? That's the assertion made by people in this thread, that people who play free games are somehow leeches on society because they're playing a game the way it was designed and developed to be played.

    So are Firefox users leeches on society too?  Or are they just using a free product?

    No. There is competition. They are free...totally free, because of competition. Im not talking about the Game, Im talking of the prices in the shop.

    Controlling the supply and demand is bad for customers amirite? Am I?

     

    I don't think so.  They don't force anyone to buy anything out of the shop at all.  Maybe we can look at this from a little different perspective.  Wordpress is a popular blogging software that is totally free.  You can download it and  blog with absolutely no cost right now.  There are all kinds of plugins though that do cost money and you have a choice whether to use them or not. Most people do not, they blog completely free of charge.  Some people buy a few plugins.  Some people buy a lot.  It's all up to personal preference and personality.  I don't think controlling supply and demand is a bad thing at all, after all, EVERY MMO does it.  Want to use this super-sword?  You can't touch it until you reach level X.  That's controlling supply and demand.

    Cash shops exist to appeal to people with severe self-control issues.  I've never even been tempted to buy a single thing for real cash in a game cash-shop.  I have never, in my entire life, in a P2P or F2P game, bought anything in a cash shop and I never will.  I don't lack self-control.  Far too many people do.  That's their problem, not mine.

    As long as their is there is another entity offering the item in the mall, it's ok at least in perception.

    Obviously, they need some if not most controls, but not all. If you are coming from the angle of what's good for the consumer.

    So offering player sold items as well in the shop helps...perception anyway.

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

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