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Subscription and SC

aspekxaspekx Member UncommonPosts: 2,167

i know the game has been announced as f2p. however, SOE has several games that while f2p a game pass provides certain benefits beyond simply 500SC a month.

 

i am wondering will this be Dragon'sProphet f2p? (ie., nickled and dimed.) or will it be EQ2 f2p? (where your sub gives you full access plus other benefits.)

 

it seems that if it isn't the second option above, then their own flagship IP will be taking a swipe at their own primary subscription model.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

Comments

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,174
    I assume it'll be closer to Everquest and Everquest 2 than Dragon's Prophet. Don't forget that Dragon's Prophet is also the product of a third party developer, who I imagine have some say in their cash shop.

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  • aspekxaspekx Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
    true enough. and i do hope they stick more closely to their current format for pay/f2p.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402

    I will go and say that it's going to be like their own F2P games, they all use the same model with a few things different here and there because some were converted and others made from the ground-up to be F2P.  There are things in commons though. This mean a FREE level with restrictions and a SUB level with bonuses. There might be a middle tier too for 5$, but not all their games has one.

    Restrictions that are commons through all of the their games are chat/guild/emails/AH and gold cap, free usually only get 2 character slots. Bank slots something get limited as well (not always). XP is sometimes reduced for Freepers or boosted for subs.

    After that they tried different things and even reduced some of their restriction overtime. DCUO is more à-la-carte where you have to buy DLCs (Sub get full access), although most of their sales are probably cosmetics. EQ1 and EQ2 restrictions only matters at endgame and most can be unlocked. Planetside 2 cash shop is mostly cosmetic (the guns aren't more powerful than what is in the game, if they are SOE nerf them).

    So I guess we can expect, going by what we know of the game:

    • chat/guild/email/AH and gold cap limitations (this is mostly to reduce gold salers)
    • 2 character slots for Freepers (can buy more)
    • gain reduction of something (faction, gold, something...)

    Now in the cash shop you will find:

    • cosmetic items for both characters and housing
    • boosters/consumables for something
    • bank expansion, character slot expansion, bags (EQ2 allow you to craft them or buy them from the cash shop)

     

    It's also possible that the system they are going to put in Landmark for the Auction House/Broker is going to be in EQNext. Going by what they hinted at, they seem to be going toward a dual currency system were you can buy stuff with in-game money or with station cash. Basically, convert station cash into in-game currency...

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Originally posted by aspekx

    i know the game has been announced as f2p. however, SOE has several games that while f2p a game pass provides certain benefits beyond simply 500SC a month.

     

    i am wondering will this be Dragon'sProphet f2p? (ie., nickled and dimed.) or will it be EQ2 f2p? (where your sub gives you full access plus other benefits.)

     

    it seems that if it isn't the second option above, then their own flagship IP will be taking a swipe at their own primary subscription model.

    Your sub fee NEVER gives you full access ,not even in EQ2,example housing,also player made items and dungeon maker cash shop.

    SOE is plain and simple greedy ,they ignore the normal player and try to feed mainly off those willing to spend more than a sub fee,hence why they have gone full out cash shop for every game.

    You might say it is good business to always aim for more,but this is a business that NEEDS to cater to the player,NOT the business,otherwise you have no business.Sure there is ALWAYS going to be people who will throw their money away needlessly,but i think it has become very obvious that SOE is no longer a recognized name that people consider FAIR,they have garnered themselves a black mark.

    Your question has already been answered really,they have begun SELLING packages to Landmark that is not even 1/3 of a game.A generated world with Voxels is all you get,with of course cash shop and will be new packages over the course to entice more spending.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    they have begun SELLING packages to Landmark

    you can see the same marketing w many ftp games

     

    Planetside 2 and nonSOE games like Neverwinter, Marvel Heroes, Path of Exile

    were all selling packaged bundle tiers,  pre-release

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Originally posted by aspekx

    i know the game has been announced as f2p. however, SOE has several games that while f2p a game pass provides certain benefits beyond simply 500SC a month.

     

    i am wondering will this be Dragon'sProphet f2p? (ie., nickled and dimed.) or will it be EQ2 f2p? (where your sub gives you full access plus other benefits.)

     

    it seems that if it isn't the second option above, then their own flagship IP will be taking a swipe at their own primary subscription model.

     

    So far nothing concrete has been said.  There is this:

    "EQN is a very, very different kind of game... it probably won't have the same kind of matrix restrictions. We may not even have a matrix at all if we don't decide to go down the subscription path, but that's just a possibility. We haven't decided whether we are or aren't doing that."

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/07/everquest-everquest-ii-repeal-f2p-restrictions-on-class-race/

     

    In the last livestream they did mention the possibility of buying additional plot flags with SC but that was referring to Landmark.

  • KyllienKyllien Member UncommonPosts: 315
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by aspekx

    i know the game has been announced as f2p. however, SOE has several games that while f2p a game pass provides certain benefits beyond simply 500SC a month.

     

    i am wondering will this be Dragon'sProphet f2p? (ie., nickled and dimed.) or will it be EQ2 f2p? (where your sub gives you full access plus other benefits.)

     

    it seems that if it isn't the second option above, then their own flagship IP will be taking a swipe at their own primary subscription model.

    Your sub fee NEVER gives you full access ,not even in EQ2,example housing,also player made items and dungeon maker cash shop.

    SOE is plain and simple greedy ,they ignore the normal player and try to feed mainly off those willing to spend more than a sub fee,hence why they have gone full out cash shop for every game.

    You might say it is good business to always aim for more,but this is a business that NEEDS to cater to the player,NOT the business,otherwise you have no business.Sure there is ALWAYS going to be people who will throw their money away needlessly,but i think it has become very obvious that SOE is no longer a recognized name that people consider FAIR,they have garnered themselves a black mark.

    Your question has already been answered really,they have begun SELLING packages to Landmark that is not even 1/3 of a game.A generated world with Voxels is all you get,with of course cash shop and will be new packages over the course to entice more spending.

     

    Correction on the housing in EQ2.  Basic and even up to 4 bedroom houses are available in-game using in-game currency and guild status.  The houses that you can buy in the cash shop are cosmetic in nature.  You even get some nice houses free with longevity.  In fact the cash shop in EQ2 for Subscribers is almost entirely cosmetic.  Just like it should be.  In fact the player studio stuff, you know the cosmetic stuff you buy that other players designed is also in the cash shop.

    They have revealed exactly zero details about how the game expansion will work or how microtransactions will work (other then to expect lots of downtime and frequent large updates during alpha).  But  that will become clear soon after the beta starts (for players that are playing in the beta) or shortly after the NDA is lifted.

  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    Judging by PS2 you will have a horrible time if you try to play it completely free (which I feel is just as it should be). However, if you invest 10-15 bucks/EUR a month, you'll probably have a pretty smooth sailing experience, with the difference being you'll only pay when you feel like paying and are not tied to a montly sub.

    I already bought the trailblazer pack and am prepared to chuck another 100 bucks a year or more to play it. After all, if I started playing any new box+sub game, it would probably cost me ~200 bucks in the first year, if not more.

     

  • DewmDewm Member UncommonPosts: 1,337
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Judging by PS2 you will have a horrible time if you try to play it completely free (which I feel is just as it should be). However, if you invest 10-15 bucks/EUR a month, you'll probably have a pretty smooth sailing experience, with the difference being you'll only pay when you feel like paying and are not tied to a montly sub.

    I already bought the trailblazer pack and am prepared to chuck another 100 bucks a year or more to play it. After all, if I started playing any new box+sub game, it would probably cost me ~200 bucks in the first year, if not more.

     

     

    This is where I am at.

     

    But you guys also fail to use games like League of legends as an example. that game is 100% free, UNLESS you want cosmetic items (skins)

     

    I played the first 4 months with no problem... no money, then I got addicted to the skins. and now spend probably 20 bucks a month.

     

    And somehow they are making millions and million and millions of dollars. 

     

    So who knows what SOE will do. we'll have to see.

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
    https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    I hope their decision to go full out cash shop back fires.
  • Thessik_IrontailThessik_Irontail Member UncommonPosts: 76

    I think SoE's new all access 14.99 plan for all their games is a fantastic idea. I also think they should do away with F2P and go this route instead. 

    $14.99 and you get all the games they have, including everquest next, it requires a subscription but at that rate the value is through the roof. Its like netflix, you have to pay a subscription fee, but then you get to watch all their shows and movies, thats definately the way to do it.

    F2P needs to die, sub fees ensure the company makes money and allows good companies produce quality content for the games. F2P stagnates a game and allows companies to produce subpar content that does not hold players.

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    The subscription model is on its way out and it isn't coming back, just learn to live with it. The reason for a sub fee was to maintain the servers and pay for the bandwidth, this no longer costs enough to require a sub fee.

    F2P and B2P are the future of gaming and even those games that do have a sub fee will have a cash shop so don't sit here and complain about those like they are a F2P only thing.

    This isn't a SOE thing, this is just how the entire market is moving. Just like when it moved from pay per hour to pay per month. It isn't greed, the only greedy system is charging people per month to play a game they already bought.

  • VutarVutar Member UncommonPosts: 932
    Originally posted by Ender4

    The subscription model is on its way out and it isn't coming back, just learn to live with it. The reason for a sub fee was to maintain the servers and pay for the bandwidth, this no longer costs enough to require a sub fee.

    F2P and B2P are the future of gaming and even those games that do have a sub fee will have a cash shop so don't sit here and complain about those like they are a F2P only thing.

    This isn't a SOE thing, this is just how the entire market is moving. Just like when it moved from pay per hour to pay per month. It isn't greed, the only greedy system is charging people per month to play a game they already bought.

     

    Hey look another F2P fan making baseless claims. Have never seen that before.

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247


    Originally posted by Vutar

    Originally posted by Ender4 The subscription model is on its way out and it isn't coming back, just learn to live with it. The reason for a sub fee was to maintain the servers and pay for the bandwidth, this no longer costs enough to require a sub fee. F2P and B2P are the future of gaming and even those games that do have a sub fee will have a cash shop so don't sit here and complain about those like they are a F2P only thing. This isn't a SOE thing, this is just how the entire market is moving. Just like when it moved from pay per hour to pay per month. It isn't greed, the only greedy system is charging people per month to play a game they already bought.
     

    Hey look another F2P fan making baseless claims. Have never seen that before.



    Have you looked at the gaming market? How anyone can think that F2P and B2P isn't the direction games is going is beyond me. Like 1% of the online games released in the past year had a sub fee. B2P is probably going to be the largest market with a liberal amount of F2P mixed and a few games releasing with a sub each year but most of them failing to keep it up long term. Even the new consoles have started to push more and more F2P out there.

  • VutarVutar Member UncommonPosts: 932
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by Vutar

    Originally posted by Ender4 The subscription model is on its way out and it isn't coming back, just learn to live with it. The reason for a sub fee was to maintain the servers and pay for the bandwidth, this no longer costs enough to require a sub fee. F2P and B2P are the future of gaming and even those games that do have a sub fee will have a cash shop so don't sit here and complain about those like they are a F2P only thing. This isn't a SOE thing, this is just how the entire market is moving. Just like when it moved from pay per hour to pay per month. It isn't greed, the only greedy system is charging people per month to play a game they already bought.
     

     

    Hey look another F2P fan making baseless claims. Have never seen that before.


     


    Have you looked at the gaming market? How anyone can think that F2P and B2P isn't the direction games is going is beyond me. Like 1% of the online games released in the past year had a sub fee. B2P is probably going to be the largest market with a liberal amount of F2P mixed and a few games releasing with a sub each year but most of them failing to keep it up long term.

     

    Have you? The two next supposedly "big games" are sub based. ESO and Wildstar. Camelot Unchained has already said it will be sub based whenever that comes out. EQnext will have both but because it is SOE you can be sure that supposed F2P will be costly.  FFXIV AAR? Sub based. WoW? Sub based. Eve online? Sub based. SWTOR? Sub based with a really pathetic free to try model similar to EQ and EQ2.

    In fact, Mark Jacobs, the guy behind Camelot Unchained, and someone who has been in the industry for a long time has said he believes the industry is in for a shift away from F2P. 

    The only two F2P games that are popular at all right now are Neverwinter and GW2, both of which have lost a ton of players over this past year with numerous complaints about how all companies focus on is the cash shop.

     

     

     

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    So you cherry picked a couple games that are coming out sometime in the future? Most of the current MMORPG are really old games that have held on to their sub fee and games that used to have sub fees that went free. I was also talking big picture where more and more of the market is shifting to F2P. There has been all of 1 successful sub fee game released in the past 5 years now and that was a re-release of a failed game.

  • Thessik_IrontailThessik_Irontail Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Originally posted by Ender4

    So you cherry picked a couple games that are coming out sometime in the future? Most of the current MMORPG are really old games that have held on to their sub fee and games that used to have sub fees that went free. I was also talking big picture where more and more of the market is shifting to F2P. There has been all of 1 successful sub fee game released in the past 5 years now and that was a re-release of a failed game.

     

    If by cherry picked you mean that he covered all relevant big name MMOs, then yes.

    And your counter examples that are bigger name are.... ? That's what I thought. Sit down.

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141


    SOE is not interested in giving you the whole game for one low price, that's why they are going F2P, you can have some of the game for free but if you want every last thing the game has to offer it will cost you a small fortune like every F2P game with no sub option.

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