Originally posted by Zeke-M We are interested to know who is really excited about the idea of spending hours in a game making a keep or cabin just for the sake of building it.
i orginally didnt care about landmark
but now i have more interest in landmark than EQN
i like that any theme will be supported and (eventually) combat, AI systems, pvp
EQN is restricted to the Norrath theme
I like Norrath but i'd rather have a "anything goes" theme
EQNL has the potential to be like EQ2 Frostfell or EQ2 Halloween haunted houses
except it's all year round and the content themes will be player created
Originally posted by Zeke-M This whole idea of creation seems to be a waste of time to both my wife and I. What a brilliant scheme to get gamers to fork over even more of their money, however, from the gamers perspective what a waste and rip off. We are interested to know who is really excited about the idea of spending hours in a game making a keep or cabin just for the sake of building it. We have seen the movies they have released and still see no reason to sign up for landmark. Thoughts, arguments, agreement?
you're right, everyone hated minecraft i see no reason they would enjoy minecraft with much better graphics.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by Thupli I like Legos, so I think I have a good chance of liking Landmark.
...but you can play Minecraft for free, but hey if you like throwing away your money, well its your money so dont let me or anyone else stop you.
First off.. do a little research, like 15 seconds worth of research
Minecraft is not free, alpha was 11.00, beta was 20.00 and I think its $30.00 right now (not sure on that)
Second, EQ:L is going to be 100% free, UNLESSS you want to get in on it a month or two early, but if you do...thats your choice.
And yes MC and EQ:L are both builder games...but IMO you can't compair them, just from a graphical point of view.
This isn't entirely true.
EQN:L is totally free if all you want to do is wander around the world and see the sights. I see that getting boring quite quickly.
Terry Michaels has stated on at least two occasions that the plots of land are going to cost you $$$, and that price will be variable depending on player demand for that particular chunk of real estate. So, you can wander around and say hi to friends, but if you want to actually build something you need to open your wallet.
It's not as "free" as people are making it out to be.
Terry Michaels has stated on at least two occasions that the plots of land are going to cost you $$$, and that price will be variable depending on player demand for that particular chunk of real estate.
will have to wait to see how this plays out
it seems implied that everyone gets a free starting claim (whatever that is)
Claims will be sold via micro-transactions, but players will also have ways to earn more than the starting claim (everybody gets one) in-game. As with materials and building costs, the actual details here remain unclear.
Terry Michaels has stated on at least two occasions that the plots of land are going to cost you $$$, and that price will be variable depending on player demand for that particular chunk of real estate.
will have to wait to see how this plays out
it seems implied that everyone gets a free starting claim (whatever that is)
Claims will be sold via micro-transactions, but players will also have ways to earn more than the starting claim (everybody gets one) in-game. As with materials and building costs, the actual details here remain unclear.
I was looking for that article! Thanks for the link.
As you say, we'll have to see how it pans out in game, not only for the size of this starter claim but for other limitations.
I don't think it would be very fun for me. But I know tons of people that love spending all day in minecraft just building random things because they enjoy it.
I also think player housing and decorating said house in MMOs is pointless. But I've played with tons of people who spend a lot of time doing it and enjoying it.
If you look at the big picture isn't everything in a game basically just a waste of time unless you enjoy doing said action? You ran a dungeon, to get better gear, to be able to run a stronger dungeon, to get better gear, to raid a mob, to get better gear, to what? What is your end result? Just for the sake of saying I have X or Y item? Is there really any point to any of it?
I really just don't see the point you are making OP. Is the time you waste in your style of gaming superior to people who waste their gaming time doing things that they enjoy?
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
I'm very excited by the prospect of user generated content from EQL in EQN. There are lots of talented folks out there. With PvP and AI tools implemented, the prospects are even bigger, if not mindblowing.
My only worry is how SOE will handle the business model for the game, wish they would talk more about that.
Go and check it............. there is clearly a market for this kind of games.
The same logic applies to WoW-clones, no ?
That aside, while it's clear that there are those who play Mincraft obsessively and have made hugely complex creations, I'm not convinced that's very common. For most of those I've known who were "into" Minecraft it was a very brief thing, if indeed they ever really played it at all past the wandering around a little stage.
Obviously the plural of anecdote is not data, but sales numbers for what was an extremely cheap (and heavily pirated) and heavily promoted game don't necessarily translate to hours played or even real, in the play sense, popularity. Hell, even Skyrim, not a cheap but also a heavily promoted game, apparently had an average time played that was appallingly low.
In any event, on the poll... No "Not really interested in either" option? Personally I've yet to hear anything about EQN or EQL that was particularly interesting to me. That might change for EQN once it stops being a matter of Smed blowing smoke and we can actually get our hands on it, we'll see.
Personally I don't understand the whole way people get worked up for games that really aren't even off the drawing board yet. Dev talks, screen shots, even video, it's all meaningless. Until you can get into the game yourself it's pretty much impossible to evaluate things on any meaningful basis, so what is there to get excited about? Follow with some mild interest, perhaps, though honestly not even that is worth the bother until the home stretch, but the amount of endless babble around something like EQN (or any other game at that stage of development), a game that is basically just words at this point, confuses me.
Wow Finally someone who has an idea on how things works.
Has any WoW clone, Angry Bird clone, Beatles clone or fruit ninja clone ever met or exceed the originals numbers? No cause things just don't work like that.
Oh and someone mentioned numbers of facebook likes on here... Funny thing is there are buinesses that will give you thousands of fake likes if you pay them money.... And there clients aren't desperate anti-social members; there Politicians, Companies and Hollywood stars..........
YA Facebook statistics are BS. You know how many fake accounts people make for FB games and how many like scams are ran on there.
Wow Finally someone who has an idea on how things works.
Has any WoW clone, Angry Bird clone, Beatles clone or fruit ninja clone ever met or exceed the originals numbers? No cause things just don't work like that.
This isn't a Minecraft clone though, it is just built on the same concept. League of Legends is a DOTA clone and it possibly the most popular game in the world. Starcraft was as much a clone of Age of Empires and Warcraft as this is a clone of Minecraft and see where that took them. WoW was as much a clone of EQ as this is and look at that etc.
Nobody wants another WoW clone but EQN clearly isn't that. Nobody really wants a Minecraft clone but EQL clearly isn't that either. These are both pretty unique titles.
Has any WoW clone, Angry Bird clone, Beatles clone or fruit ninja clone ever met or exceed the originals numbers? No cause things just don't work like that.
Of course it's happened. It just hasn't happened with WoW and Minecraft is still too new.
But League of Legends is more popular than the original DOTA.
I'm not in much of a position where I have a lot of variety on how to allocate my time with my irregular schedules with work. As sometimes I need to stay on a night shift schedule during my days off. Which has me awake all night, and sleeping through the day. Having a game where I can doodle and create things plus go exploring and all that wonderful stuff is fantastic because it will keep my mind engaged, if only for a few hours and I like the art style better than the silly 8 bit graphics of minecraft.
Plus if I can get a head start now on designing things I can take into EQN for me. Then all the better.
I think it really depends what you want out of your entertainment. I completely agree that I have days where I want to zombie out and just run through content. Then I have other days when I want to build some stuff.
I'm looking forward to giving it a shot and seeing what comes of it.
Go and check it............. there is clearly a market for this kind of games.
The same logic applies to WoW-clones, no ?
That aside, while it's clear that there are those who play Mincraft obsessively and have made hugely complex creations, I'm not convinced that's very common. For most of those I've known who were "into" Minecraft it was a very brief thing, if indeed they ever really played it at all past the wandering around a little stage.
Obviously the plural of anecdote is not data, but sales numbers for what was an extremely cheap (and heavily pirated) and heavily promoted game don't necessarily translate to hours played or even real, in the play sense, popularity. Hell, even Skyrim, not a cheap but also a heavily promoted game, apparently had an average time played that was appallingly low.
In any event, on the poll... No "Not really interested in either" option? Personally I've yet to hear anything about EQN or EQL that was particularly interesting to me. That might change for EQN once it stops being a matter of Smed blowing smoke and we can actually get our hands on it, we'll see.
Personally I don't understand the whole way people get worked up for games that really aren't even off the drawing board yet. Dev talks, screen shots, even video, it's all meaningless. Until you can get into the game yourself it's pretty much impossible to evaluate things on any meaningful basis, so what is there to get excited about? Follow with some mild interest, perhaps, though honestly not even that is worth the bother until the home stretch, but the amount of endless babble around something like EQN (or any other game at that stage of development), a game that is basically just words at this point, confuses me.
Wow Finally someone who has an idea on how things works.
Has any WoW clone, Angry Bird clone, Beatles clone or fruit ninja clone ever met or exceed the originals numbers? No cause things just don't work like that.
Oh and someone mentioned numbers of facebook likes on here... Funny thing is there are buinesses that will give you thousands of fake likes if you pay them money.... And there clients aren't desperate anti-social members; there Politicians, Companies and Hollywood stars..........
YA Facebook statistics are BS. You know how many fake accounts people make for FB games and how many like scams are ran on there.
That was me and I agree that they can be faked, by each company in question so who knows. Another left field idea was Youtube videos, kinda hard to fake that. Yes I know not to take it at face value but similar to Facebook likes the results were interesting:
Originally posted by Zeke-M This whole idea of creation seems to be a waste of time to both my wife and I. What a brilliant scheme to get gamers to fork over even more of their money, however, from the gamers perspective what a waste and rip off. We are interested to know who is really excited about the idea of spending hours in a game making a keep or cabin just for the sake of building it. We have seen the movies they have released and still see no reason to sign up for landmark. Thoughts, arguments, agreement?
Lego ring a bell? It sure as hell isn't for everybody, but are you really surprised that such a target audience does in fact exist?
People have been building things for the enjoyment of doing it since forever. Minecraft is just a more recent and more similar example to compare Landmark to.
Well if it seems like a waste of time just don't do it then. Problem solved. However, there are people who have a lot of creativity and will enjoy creating stuff on Landmark. I'm sure these people will be happy.
Personally I believe that landmark could become bigger then EQN if it will eventually allow you to create not just buildings and areas but fully functional "mini mmo's", areas with stories, mobs and challenges for the explorer to enjoy, the ability to create your own dangerous areas filled with dungeons, bosses, etc.
A combination between Minecraft, Neverwinter Nights 2 and Everquest as you will. Now everyone who enjoyed Neverwinter Nights and NWN2 will tell you that while the original storylines where great, the real enjoyement was in the player created worlds. The MMO Neverwinter lacked the real persistant world creation tools that NwN had but perhaps EQL could be the title to introduce is to the next generation of MMO player content creation. If it does then it could become huge and EQN could become like the original questlines in NWN and NWN2, great fun but not "what it's about".
In the last year they have introduced a lot of "building stuff".
Player "prestige" Homes - one of them is just a green island for players to build a home themselves.
Building Blocks etc - Crafters can create the basics for building stuff.
Dungeon Maker - Players are able to build their own dungeons and decorate them how they want.
Housing contest or at least a rating system.
Everything is also connected to microtransaction where you can buy those things.
So the only conclusion I can make of this:
They make a lot of money of those builders and their buying habits or else they wouldn't spend so many ressources on these things, would they?
---------------------------------------- Evil UO has doomed my poor soul and now I'm wandering restlessly through all MMORPG's, desperately searching for a place to rest in peace.....
Looking forward to both. I just want to say don't box yourself into just a MMO. There are a number of games in Early Access that are crazy fun now, they are builders and survivalists. I'm more a fan of user controlled servers, you get real variation that way. But adding in building/creating along with all the other mmo trimmings is a step this genre needed a long time ago. We need more to do that just kill or a good many of us and I like to kill.
I am looking towards EQNL as a Minecraft fan - however creating in Landmark will be a lot more difficult because it goes beyond block voxels into smooth voxels.
Legos are easy to use for all.....
If that's all you want to do you can just build with blocks in Landmark too.
It's not like they force you to use spheres, smoothing, the "beam" tool, etc.
Landmark is only harder if you want to take advantage of its full power.
I am really looking forward to landmark, i think it could become bigger than eqn. I love things like mine craft and to have it mixed with an mmo would be a true game changer.
Landmark is in some ways essentially the testbed for EQN, and I imagine that they will approach it like the way they are constantly updating Planetside, so Landmark will look very different at 6 months versus the beta. I think that will be an interesting experience even though I'm not much for building games.
Originally posted by ignore_me Landmark is in some ways essentially the testbed for EQN, and I imagine that they will approach it like the way they are constantly updating Planetside, so Landmark will look very different at 6 months versus the beta. I think that will be an interesting experience even though I'm not much for building games.
A testbed and more besides. The answer to the problem: how to keep on creating new content cheaply. Get the players to do it for you. For EQN and EQN:L think Unreal and Unreal Engine.
Then Minecraft "happened".
A "simple" "building game". And at some moment in time someone at SOE had a light bulb moment. If people will pay for a simple building game what will they pay for a "sophisticated" building ...errr.... game. Yes game!
And so EQN:L has taken a fork in the road. It has been tweaked and is now becoming .... something. Whether the original vision will remain - not sure. I hope that in their endeavours to turn it into Minecraft however they remember that Minecraft was a success because - essentially - it was
It may still be a means of creating "free" content for EQN but now it is also "a game". And there will be a cash shop and ......
What indeed lies ahead. And I am not sure SOE are on the right path. Minecraft is B2P not F2P.
Originally posted by Seever "Those who can, build. Those who can't, criticize." - Robert Moses
Robert Moses killed thousands of people for expressways. It's on record in many cases where he evicted people by the hundreds and in some cases the thousands from their homes (not just apartments owned by others though he did that as well but duly owned and purchased homes/domains.) leaving them nowhere to go and dying homeless in the streets through the help of the government's imminent domain laws to steal from homeowners because of his kickbacks and other forms of graft and corruption.
He destroyed whole families and communities so that people of means could drive through the wreckage without slowing down in their shiny new automobile. He is the worst case example of government by the rich for the rich.
Just because you find a quote after googling the word 'building' doesn't mean it comes from a person whose ideology and statements are worthy of quoting.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Comments
i orginally didnt care about landmark
but now i have more interest in landmark than EQN
i like that any theme will be supported and (eventually) combat, AI systems, pvp
EQN is restricted to the Norrath theme
I like Norrath but i'd rather have a "anything goes" theme
EQNL has the potential to be like EQ2 Frostfell or EQ2 Halloween haunted houses
except it's all year round and the content themes will be player created
EQ2 fan sites
you're right, everyone hated minecraft i see no reason they would enjoy minecraft with much better graphics.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
This isn't entirely true.
EQN:L is totally free if all you want to do is wander around the world and see the sights. I see that getting boring quite quickly.
Terry Michaels has stated on at least two occasions that the plots of land are going to cost you $$$, and that price will be variable depending on player demand for that particular chunk of real estate. So, you can wander around and say hi to friends, but if you want to actually build something you need to open your wallet.
It's not as "free" as people are making it out to be.
will have to wait to see how this plays out
it seems implied that everyone gets a free starting claim (whatever that is)
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/everquest-next-landmark-brings-user-created-content-mmo-world/
Claims will be sold via micro-transactions, but players will also have ways to earn more than the starting claim (everybody gets one) in-game. As with materials and building costs, the actual details here remain unclear.
EQ2 fan sites
I was looking for that article! Thanks for the link.
As you say, we'll have to see how it pans out in game, not only for the size of this starter claim but for other limitations.
I don't think it would be very fun for me. But I know tons of people that love spending all day in minecraft just building random things because they enjoy it.
I also think player housing and decorating said house in MMOs is pointless. But I've played with tons of people who spend a lot of time doing it and enjoying it.
If you look at the big picture isn't everything in a game basically just a waste of time unless you enjoy doing said action? You ran a dungeon, to get better gear, to be able to run a stronger dungeon, to get better gear, to raid a mob, to get better gear, to what? What is your end result? Just for the sake of saying I have X or Y item? Is there really any point to any of it?
I really just don't see the point you are making OP. Is the time you waste in your style of gaming superior to people who waste their gaming time doing things that they enjoy?
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
I'm very excited by the prospect of user generated content from EQL in EQN. There are lots of talented folks out there. With PvP and AI tools implemented, the prospects are even bigger, if not mindblowing.
My only worry is how SOE will handle the business model for the game, wish they would talk more about that.
Wow Finally someone who has an idea on how things works.
Has any WoW clone, Angry Bird clone, Beatles clone or fruit ninja clone ever met or exceed the originals numbers? No cause things just don't work like that.
Oh and someone mentioned numbers of facebook likes on here... Funny thing is there are buinesses that will give you thousands of fake likes if you pay them money.... And there clients aren't desperate anti-social members; there Politicians, Companies and Hollywood stars..........
YA Facebook statistics are BS. You know how many fake accounts people make for FB games and how many like scams are ran on there.
This isn't a Minecraft clone though, it is just built on the same concept. League of Legends is a DOTA clone and it possibly the most popular game in the world. Starcraft was as much a clone of Age of Empires and Warcraft as this is a clone of Minecraft and see where that took them. WoW was as much a clone of EQ as this is and look at that etc.
Nobody wants another WoW clone but EQN clearly isn't that. Nobody really wants a Minecraft clone but EQL clearly isn't that either. These are both pretty unique titles.
Of course it's happened. It just hasn't happened with WoW and Minecraft is still too new.
But League of Legends is more popular than the original DOTA.
I'm not in much of a position where I have a lot of variety on how to allocate my time with my irregular schedules with work. As sometimes I need to stay on a night shift schedule during my days off. Which has me awake all night, and sleeping through the day. Having a game where I can doodle and create things plus go exploring and all that wonderful stuff is fantastic because it will keep my mind engaged, if only for a few hours and I like the art style better than the silly 8 bit graphics of minecraft.
Plus if I can get a head start now on designing things I can take into EQN for me. Then all the better.
I think it really depends what you want out of your entertainment. I completely agree that I have days where I want to zombie out and just run through content. Then I have other days when I want to build some stuff.
I'm looking forward to giving it a shot and seeing what comes of it.
That was me and I agree that they can be faked, by each company in question so who knows. Another left field idea was Youtube videos, kinda hard to fake that. Yes I know not to take it at face value but similar to Facebook likes the results were interesting:
Youtube search results
World of Warcraft: About 1,490,000
League of Legends: About 5,290,000
Minecraft: About 40,800,000
Lego ring a bell? It sure as hell isn't for everybody, but are you really surprised that such a target audience does in fact exist?
People have been building things for the enjoyment of doing it since forever. Minecraft is just a more recent and more similar example to compare Landmark to.
Personally I believe that landmark could become bigger then EQN if it will eventually allow you to create not just buildings and areas but fully functional "mini mmo's", areas with stories, mobs and challenges for the explorer to enjoy, the ability to create your own dangerous areas filled with dungeons, bosses, etc.
A combination between Minecraft, Neverwinter Nights 2 and Everquest as you will. Now everyone who enjoyed Neverwinter Nights and NWN2 will tell you that while the original storylines where great, the real enjoyement was in the player created worlds. The MMO Neverwinter lacked the real persistant world creation tools that NwN had but perhaps EQL could be the title to introduce is to the next generation of MMO player content creation. If it does then it could become huge and EQN could become like the original questlines in NWN and NWN2, great fun but not "what it's about".
Here's hoping.
Have you thought about EQ2?
In the last year they have introduced a lot of "building stuff".
Player "prestige" Homes - one of them is just a green island for players to build a home themselves.
Building Blocks etc - Crafters can create the basics for building stuff.
Dungeon Maker - Players are able to build their own dungeons and decorate them how they want.
Housing contest or at least a rating system.
Everything is also connected to microtransaction where you can buy those things.
So the only conclusion I can make of this:
They make a lot of money of those builders and their buying habits or else they wouldn't spend so many ressources on these things, would they?
----------------------------------------
Evil UO has doomed my poor soul and now I'm wandering restlessly through all MMORPG's, desperately searching for a place to rest in peace.....
If that's all you want to do you can just build with blocks in Landmark too.
It's not like they force you to use spheres, smoothing, the "beam" tool, etc.
Landmark is only harder if you want to take advantage of its full power.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
A testbed and more besides. The answer to the problem: how to keep on creating new content cheaply. Get the players to do it for you. For EQN and EQN:L think Unreal and Unreal Engine.
Then Minecraft "happened".
A "simple" "building game". And at some moment in time someone at SOE had a light bulb moment. If people will pay for a simple building game what will they pay for a "sophisticated" building ...errr.... game. Yes game!
And so EQN:L has taken a fork in the road. It has been tweaked and is now becoming .... something. Whether the original vision will remain - not sure. I hope that in their endeavours to turn it into Minecraft however they remember that Minecraft was a success because - essentially - it was
It may still be a means of creating "free" content for EQN but now it is also "a game". And there will be a cash shop and ......
What indeed lies ahead. And I am not sure SOE are on the right path. Minecraft is B2P not F2P.
Robert Moses killed thousands of people for expressways. It's on record in many cases where he evicted people by the hundreds and in some cases the thousands from their homes (not just apartments owned by others though he did that as well but duly owned and purchased homes/domains.) leaving them nowhere to go and dying homeless in the streets through the help of the government's imminent domain laws to steal from homeowners because of his kickbacks and other forms of graft and corruption.
He destroyed whole families and communities so that people of means could drive through the wreckage without slowing down in their shiny new automobile. He is the worst case example of government by the rich for the rich.
Just because you find a quote after googling the word 'building' doesn't mean it comes from a person whose ideology and statements are worthy of quoting.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.