So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?
I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
I guess the next question would be, what is so great about it? Because Wizardry online was literally one of the, if not the worst MMO I've ever played. It doesn't feel like Wizardry at all. It both looks and feels like it was made 10 years ago.
Gameplay and mechanics aren't even close to Wizardry. Seems like it was coded by interns with how unsmooth and buggy the game is. Obviously rushed out the door despite how terrible testers feedback must've been.
So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?
I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
Because every company that tries this also throws quality control and logic out the window. Don't even see anyone complaining about the difficulty anyways so guessing it's trolling.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Oh look another fanboi that thinks the publisher can remain blameless for marketing terrible development.
You said 'Sony made a crappy game'. They didn't make it. Stop being ignorant.
They are the publisher and they are making money from marketing games for other companies (currently Dragon's Prophet and Wizardry Online). How dare they make money by running a company that markets other developers games! Shame on them! If SoE didn't publish them, then someone else would have - like Infernum for Dragon's Prophet in Europe.
Sony have zero creative control over these games, they are entirely created and updated by the developers. If you have a problem with billing, marketing or customer service, then that becomes SoEs problem, for everything else - its the developer.
Furthermore, these games are still up and running because some people actually like playing them. The world doesn't revolve around you, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in the market.
Originally posted by udon So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
I've noticed that too. It's almost like there isn't a single, unified audience of people who want difficult content, open worlds, long leveling/learning times, etc., etc. but several groups of people, each with a different view of how that stuff should work, all coincidentally saying the same thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your fanboism just becomes more and more obvious with each post. Sony had a their hand in developing WO as well and they have intimate details about every game they publish so they can make a intelligent decision(or lack there of). Otherwise I could have Sony publish anything because apparently they know nothing about what they publish according to you.
If you were in Vanguard beta you would know how "hands off" Sony really is when they publish a game. I mean the game was almost WoWified over night but hey they don't care about the actual game, all they do is publish, at least in lets pretend land.
Though not caring about what they published was ironically true with Wizardry for some reason.
Originally posted by udon So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?
I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
I've noticed that too. It's almost like there isn't a single, unified audience of people who want difficult content, open worlds, long leveling/learning times, etc., etc. but several groups of people, each with a different view of how that stuff should work, all coincidentally saying the same thing.
Well another big issue is, no experienced dev companies release games like that, only underfunded indie studios who have no budget for polish.
The same could be said for Dragon's Prophet - makes you wonder what they are doing.
and SOE didnt produce either of the 2 games, they are just acting as publishers for them - that said I actually enjoyed Wizardry for a weekend. So not awesome but wouldnt think of it as the worst ever either.
only thing you could be angry at SOE for here is that they would put their name on 2 low quality games, they didnt produce.
Originally posted by udon So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?
I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
I've noticed that too. It's almost like there isn't a single, unified audience of people who want difficult content, open worlds, long leveling/learning times, etc., etc. but several groups of people, each with a different view of how that stuff should work, all coincidentally saying the same thing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Your fanboism just becomes more and more obvious with each post. Sony had a their hand in developing WO as well and they have intimate details about every game they publish so they can make a intelligent decision(or lack there of). Otherwise I could have Sony publish anything because apparently they know nothing about what they publish according to you.
If you were in Vanguard beta you would know how "hands off" Sony really is when they publish a game. I mean the game was almost WoWified over night but hey they don't care about the actual game, all they do is publish, at least in lets pretend land.
Though not caring about what they published was ironically true with Wizardry for some reason.
Those are two different scenarios. If you can't tell the difference between a company not only publishing a game but also funding (Vanguard) one compared to straightforward publishing, I fell sorry for you. If I was giving someone millions of dollars to fund their turd of a game, that was already dropped and ran out of money after receiving 30 million from Microsoft; you're damn right I would want my hands in it. Think like an adult not a child. You know with your mind not your emotions.
You are blinded by the past. Sorry you didn't like what happened to you in a game almost 7 years ago but I think it's time to let it go. You know like an rational adult would.
It's actually a great game in a somewhat horrible packing..:)
I like Everything about this game part from the "fugly" anime Graphics that has very Little to do with Wixardry..
It's a Great game
I agree, the presentation is really lacking, and the style is VERY asian/JRPG.
But does anyone have any actual gameplay critiques? Or is it all just the art and unstable servers?
Because the way dungeons, healing, death, looting, and such are all handled is some of the most brilliant design I've ever seen.
Was wondering that myself. The only thing I've got from the responses in the thread are that it's not exactly like the single player game, and it's JRPG themed. JRPG styled games tend to be enough for people around here to want to lynch someone.
One person in the entire thread made any comment about the actual game, and he just wanted faster leveling and a more severe permadeath.
I tried the game the other night and the only thing I found that annoyed me about it was sitting around for 20 minutes waiting on quest text. Other than that it didn't seem any worse than any other F2P MMO out there.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Oh look another fanboi that thinks the publisher can remain blameless for marketing terrible development.
You said 'Sony made a crappy game'. They didn't make it. Stop being ignorant.
They are the publisher and they are making money from marketing games for other companies (currently Dragon's Prophet and Wizardry Online). How dare they make money by running a company that markets other developers games! Shame on them! If SoE didn't publish them, then someone else would have - like Infernum for Dragon's Prophet in Europe.
Sony have zero creative control over these games, they are entirely created and updated by the developers. If you have a problem with billing, marketing or customer service, then that becomes SoEs problem, for everything else - its the developer.
Furthermore, these games are still up and running because some people actually like playing them. The world doesn't revolve around you, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in the market.
a very good reply !
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
Your fanboism just becomes more and more obvious with each post. Sony had a their hand in developing WO as well and they have intimate details about every game they publish so they can make a intelligent decision(or lack there of). Otherwise I could have Sony publish anything because apparently they know nothing about what they publish according to you.
If you were in Vanguard beta you would know how "hands off" Sony really is when they publish a game. I mean the game was almost WoWified over night but hey they don't care about the actual game, all they do is publish, at least in lets pretend land.
Though not caring about what they published was ironically true with Wizardry for some reason.
I find it hard to take anyone seriously who uses the term "fanboi" without being ironic. Also Vanguard, despite having some great ideas, was always busted at the core. That's why it won all those awards for disappointment and worst MMOs of 2007, and why Microsoft ditched it. Sony's mistake was thinking it could be turned around.
Comments
It's actually a great game in a somewhat horrible packing..:)
I like Everything about this game part from the "fugly" anime Graphics that has very Little to do with Wixardry..
It's a Great game
So many people say give us "hard core" MMO elements like difficult content, open world PVP, full loot, and perma death and people will come flocking to the game but whenever a developer tries to there is nothing but hate and vile for it. At what point do you stop saying it's the games and start to say it's the audience?
I'm not saying Wizardry Online isn't a bad game because it has some big issues but I'm seeing a pattern here.
I guess the next question would be, what is so great about it? Because Wizardry online was literally one of the, if not the worst MMO I've ever played. It doesn't feel like Wizardry at all. It both looks and feels like it was made 10 years ago.
Gameplay and mechanics aren't even close to Wizardry. Seems like it was coded by interns with how unsmooth and buggy the game is. Obviously rushed out the door despite how terrible testers feedback must've been.
Because every company that tries this also throws quality control and logic out the window. Don't even see anyone complaining about the difficulty anyways so guessing it's trolling.
You said 'Sony made a crappy game'. They didn't make it. Stop being ignorant.
They are the publisher and they are making money from marketing games for other companies (currently Dragon's Prophet and Wizardry Online). How dare they make money by running a company that markets other developers games! Shame on them! If SoE didn't publish them, then someone else would have - like Infernum for Dragon's Prophet in Europe.
Sony have zero creative control over these games, they are entirely created and updated by the developers. If you have a problem with billing, marketing or customer service, then that becomes SoEs problem, for everything else - its the developer.
Furthermore, these games are still up and running because some people actually like playing them. The world doesn't revolve around you, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in the market.
I agree, the presentation is really lacking, and the style is VERY asian/JRPG.
But does anyone have any actual gameplay critiques? Or is it all just the art and unstable servers?
Because the way dungeons, healing, death, looting, and such are all handled is some of the most brilliant design I've ever seen.
I've noticed that too. It's almost like there isn't a single, unified audience of people who want difficult content, open worlds, long leveling/learning times, etc., etc. but several groups of people, each with a different view of how that stuff should work, all coincidentally saying the same thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your fanboism just becomes more and more obvious with each post. Sony had a their hand in developing WO as well and they have intimate details about every game they publish so they can make a intelligent decision(or lack there of). Otherwise I could have Sony publish anything because apparently they know nothing about what they publish according to you.
If you were in Vanguard beta you would know how "hands off" Sony really is when they publish a game. I mean the game was almost WoWified over night but hey they don't care about the actual game, all they do is publish, at least in lets pretend land.
Though not caring about what they published was ironically true with Wizardry for some reason.
Well another big issue is, no experienced dev companies release games like that, only underfunded indie studios who have no budget for polish.
and SOE didnt produce either of the 2 games, they are just acting as publishers for them - that said I actually enjoyed Wizardry for a weekend. So not awesome but wouldnt think of it as the worst ever either.
only thing you could be angry at SOE for here is that they would put their name on 2 low quality games, they didnt produce.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Those are two different scenarios. If you can't tell the difference between a company not only publishing a game but also funding (Vanguard) one compared to straightforward publishing, I fell sorry for you. If I was giving someone millions of dollars to fund their turd of a game, that was already dropped and ran out of money after receiving 30 million from Microsoft; you're damn right I would want my hands in it. Think like an adult not a child. You know with your mind not your emotions.
You are blinded by the past. Sorry you didn't like what happened to you in a game almost 7 years ago but I think it's time to let it go. You know like an rational adult would.
Was wondering that myself. The only thing I've got from the responses in the thread are that it's not exactly like the single player game, and it's JRPG themed. JRPG styled games tend to be enough for people around here to want to lynch someone.
One person in the entire thread made any comment about the actual game, and he just wanted faster leveling and a more severe permadeath.
I tried the game the other night and the only thing I found that annoyed me about it was sitting around for 20 minutes waiting on quest text. Other than that it didn't seem any worse than any other F2P MMO out there.
a very good reply !
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I find it hard to take anyone seriously who uses the term "fanboi" without being ironic. Also Vanguard, despite having some great ideas, was always busted at the core. That's why it won all those awards for disappointment and worst MMOs of 2007, and why Microsoft ditched it. Sony's mistake was thinking it could be turned around.
Sadly most my gamer friends (about 4-5 so no, not a lot of opinion here) avoid EA and Sony religiously.