Originally posted by azmundaiyou still have to move, change direction (rotate turning is bad), swing your camera on 2 axis, cast 8 different abilities, jump, dodge, sprint, and so on. add to that the fact that 8 abilities .. sucks. sure, a mage only uses 8 abilities, many classes use more and they are fun because they use more. how is a shaman healer supposed to summon individual totems, and have a heal setup like you describe, and be able to do all of the other things they need to be able to do. simple, he is simplified so that he has 4 totems that all get summoned with 1 button press .. might as well just be a priest in mail with lighting instead of holy.no question, these days mmos only need 8 abilities .. because they have been dumbed down so that anyone can faceroll anything. its severly limited when compared to the kind of gameplay that was possible as a druid or a warrior, once upon a time. or a palading or a shaman. when you mastered all of that before macros and nerfs mastered it for you, it was challenging and fun. now you load up the game, mash some buttons and collect your loot. contollers are just going to emphasize this boring, simplified gameplay trend.
WTH are you going on about? Since when do Shamans in EQ have totems? Did I miss an update about EQN?
Newsflash: MMOS were being dumbed down LOOOOONG BEFORE they came to consoles. Don't blame the consoles, blame the target demographic that devs felt they needed to cater to, you know those "post-WOW" players.
im truly sorry you arent able to read an entire post, or talk about an entire genre instead of just 1 ip.
I am able to talk about an entire genre and can definitely read your entire post, except THIS topic is about EQN on a console, that's it. You continuously derail the topic for your own personal agenda.
This topic is about EQN on a console, NOT AN ENTIRE GENRE. Can you not read a topic? Do you need any assistance?
I'm playing LoTRO, and I have a bunch of things I can do:
- 3 debuff spells
- 2 melee attack skills
- 3 "magic" attack skills -- 2 are aoe
- 2 stun skills
- a heal
- a rez
- a transfer power
- a health potion quickbar
- a power potion quickbar
- an aoe slow
- an aoe aura effect
- a pet, with it's own attack, and follow buttons
There is just no way a 4 button controller can handle this. So the game has to be dumbed down, a lot. The PS4 and Xbone are about the same in hardware, like a medium PC at best. But limiting MMO's to 4, or 8 skills, just because of the lack of buttons, is ridiculous. Not to mention that all the console players won't be chatting in the chat channels.
how do you move, pan your camera, and activate spells all at the same time?
with ridiculous 3rd party contraptions which the game most likely wont be designed around.
which essentially means that you will have 5 seconds to do what you need to do in between attacks that could kill you ... or it will be a zergfest like all of those shooter knife fight games that are provide nothing but hilarious videos
The contraption you have shown was developed for a handicapped boy to be able to play because he couldn't properly use his fingers. It was then adapted for other uses, however, nothing like this would be needed.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
The macro'ing that happens in most MMOs proves to me that the traditional hotbar system is pretty bloated and has been due for a change. GW2 has been able to effectively add activated effects to other abilities via the build system and retain a limited skill set. You can add complexity with a smaller hotbar set.
Each time I see "dumbed down" and "lowest common denominator" in reference to the fewer hotbar skills in console play I have to chuckle. It's a personal preference to be sure but clicking skills in a certain order while staying out of the fire doesn't scream pro to me in contrast. I think we begin to show just how dangerously important games become when mud slinging happens over how many icons you have to click at any one time.
The PS4 is a capable gaming machine. It's not like they're going to have to cram everything into 256 MB of system memory like they would need to in order to make it run on a PS3. Furthermore, the hardware is similar enough to a PC that porting it will probably be far easier than it would have been with previous consoles. Having the console owned by the same company as makes the game means that roadblocks to updating will probably be greatly eased as compared to what consoles have traditionally done. Putting it on a console with 8 weak CPU cores means that they'll have to put in the work to scale it to more cores, and we won't get a single-threaded mess of a code base like EverQuest II.
So I don't see what the problem is. Or are you worried that the game might end up being gamepad-friendly?
I am not worried, the keyboard and mouse are a better forum of control any way you look at it. The best example is go play that eve shooter for ps3. Watch the people with the game pad, vs people with a good mouse and keyboard. It makes it look like they are using cheat codes. I went into those servers with my mouse and keyboard, and my first game I was scoring high.
M&K works best on some genre just as a gamepad is better suited to some. I agree that FPS is better with M&K, as well as point & click strategic RPGs. For fighting games however, a gamepad is superior (actually it's going to be a joystick), also for Devil May Cry and Darksiders action games
[mod edit]
Not to point it out, but if you think a PS4 is a capable gaming machine, I dont know what kind of computer you have, but you should of spent that 400 dollars on a PC upgrade. PS4 is about as capable as my computer i threw in the garbage 4 years ago. My friends computer which was built over 3 years ago is a more capable gaming machine. And its just a amd 6 core, with a 5870x2. Just look at BF4 since that game was targeting consoles, we got a game with shitty graphics compared to what they could of been. But since the ps4 is garbage in that department, we get a game with bf3 graphics, so console players can do 64 maps.
In terms of raw hardware, consoles are still behind, but good luck finding an efficient OS that doesn't require any overhead and PC games that don't make use of obscure APIs. Console OS and games are optimized for the hardware architecture.
What I'm waiting for from action MMOs is to make the combat combo-based. The common complaint is that because there's fewer buttons on a gamepad, mapped skills become limited. It shouldn't be impossible to have access to a player's entire spellbook through a combo, just as how tekken and Street Fighter do it.
Originally posted by azmundai Originally posted by ego13 Originally posted by killahhOriginally posted by azmundaihave fun healing in raids .. which is why it has no raids, same reason teso has no raids. built for controllers == single player game with some token group content sprinkled around to trick the ppl that dont research into thinking its an mmo.
funny, cause a controller , especially the ps4 one has literally dozens of key combos.in eq i was a high end raid cleric, and used less than 10 healing in raidsthe controller thing is just another excuse from the ego-centric pc crowd.hmm, i even used a alienware ps controller to play my maxed mage raiding in wow, before i retired.It's funny because you could EASILY use the d-pad to setup a couple focus targets and then just use the d-pad specifically to move through raid targets, etc.. Having one hotkey to jump to focus targets instantly. There....a solution that would probably work BETTER than mouse and keyboard in about 2 minutes...I would hope that a development team with many people, minds, and more time could top that.
lol .. cycling through heal targets /facepalm .. in any 1/2 decent encounter, the target you are trying to cycle to would be dead before you hit the button a third time. a perfect example of having to braindead content to fit the controller.
Yeah cause mousing over healthbars is so complex. I thought we wanted to get away from watching green bars anyway.
Originally posted by Nitth Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Nitth Wait, hold on. If you need to plug a keyboard and mouse into a console, what is the point of getting a console again?
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Nitth Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Nitth Wait, hold on. If you need to plug a keyboard and mouse into a console, what is the point of getting a console again?
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
That's a reasonable response, and i can understand that.
But in regards to mmo and specifically eqn, if you need to do that to your console wouldn't you get a higher quality of experience on a pc?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Nitth Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Nitth Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Nitth Wait, hold on. If you need to plug a keyboard and mouse into a console, what is the point of getting a console again?
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
That's a reasonable response, and i can understand that.
But in regards to mmo and specifically eqn, if you need to do that to your console wouldn't you get a higher quality of experience on a pc?
Depends on the UI and Controls, which I have not been able to try out yet. Besides, doesnt that game come out on both? So since I have both platforms, I get to choose which one works best for me. Im not sure what we are arguing about exactly haha.
Originally posted by Nitth Wait, hold on. If you need to plug a keyboard and mouse into a console, what is the point of getting a console again?
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
That's a reasonable response, and i can understand that.
But in regards to mmo and specifically eqn, if you need to do that to your console wouldn't you get a higher quality of experience on a pc?
I am willing to bet that the quality of experience between the two would be so marginal as to be practically non-existent. Do I really care if you are getting a slightly higher frame rate with your graphics tweaks maxed out on your 28 inch monitor? Not really.
Not in the friggin least when I am chilin' on the couch playing the game on my 100 inch projection screen with full surround, and a nice cold beer!
They are two different experiences and if you prefer yours on PC, then knock yourself out. But don't knock the rest of us that also enjoy a good console game now and then. We are having just as much fun as you. In the meantime, ask yourself why desktop PC sales keep dropping year after year. You might find your answer there.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by azmundaihave fun healing in raids .. which is why it has no raids, same reason teso has no raids. built for controllers == single player game with some token group content sprinkled around to trick the ppl that dont research into thinking its an mmo.
funny, cause a controller , especially the ps4 one has literally dozens of key combos.in eq i was a high end raid cleric, and used less than 10 healing in raidsthe controller thing is just another excuse from the ego-centric pc crowd.hmm, i even used a alienware ps controller to play my maxed mage raiding in wow, before i retired.
It's funny because you could EASILY use the d-pad to setup a couple focus targets and then just use the d-pad specifically to move through raid targets, etc.. Having one hotkey to jump to focus targets instantly. There....a solution that would probably work BETTER than mouse and keyboard in about 2 minutes...I would hope that a development team with many people, minds, and more time could top that.
lol .. cycling through heal targets /facepalm .. in any 1/2 decent encounter, the target you are trying to cycle to would be dead before you hit the button a third time. a perfect example of having to braindead content to fit the controller.
Yeah cause mousing over healthbars is so complex. I thought we wanted to get away from watching green bars anyway.
Who is this "we"? I can't stand people that speak for this "majority" that they claim to be a part of when it's really not the case. Wildstar will already have the non-standard healing and it's HIGHLY unlikely that EQN will even come close to this so I'm not worried about satisfying that need multiple times.
Even so, if this was the case and they moved away from that model then it supports the controller even more since it's very easy to AIM on a controller. Yes it's marginally slower but it's still just an MMORPG not an FPS so it won't have any noticeable negative effect. ESPECIALLY when you consider how bad most MMO players are you can still easily shine.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Originally posted by ego13 Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by azmundaiOriginally posted by ego13Originally posted by killahhOriginally posted by azmundaihave fun healing in raids .. which is why it has no raids, same reason teso has no raids. built for controllers == single player game with some token group content sprinkled around to trick the ppl that dont research into thinking its an mmo.
funny, cause a controller , especially the ps4 one has literally dozens of key combos.in eq i was a high end raid cleric, and used less than 10 healing in raidsthe controller thing is just another excuse from the ego-centric pc crowd.hmm, i even used a alienware ps controller to play my maxed mage raiding in wow, before i retired.It's funny because you could EASILY use the d-pad to setup a couple focus targets and then just use the d-pad specifically to move through raid targets, etc.. Having one hotkey to jump to focus targets instantly. There....a solution that would probably work BETTER than mouse and keyboard in about 2 minutes...I would hope that a development team with many people, minds, and more time could top that.lol .. cycling through heal targets /facepalm .. in any 1/2 decent encounter, the target you are trying to cycle to would be dead before you hit the button a third time. a perfect example of having to braindead content to fit the controller.Yeah cause mousing over healthbars is so complex. I thought we wanted to get away from watching green bars anyway.Who is this "we"? I can't stand people that speak for this "majority" that they claim to be a part of when it's really not the case. Wildstar will already have the non-standard healing and it's HIGHLY unlikely that EQN will even come close to this so I'm not worried about satisfying that need multiple times.
Even so, if this was the case and they moved away from that model then it supports the controller even more since it's very easy to AIM on a controller. Yes it's marginally slower but it's still just an MMORPG not an FPS so it won't have any noticeable negative effect. ESPECIALLY when you consider how bad most MMO players are you can still easily shine.
Listening to what Smedly has to say about a game he seems to have no interest in...
If Smedly says something about PS2, I'll listen, until he actually shows any interest in EQN, I'll hold off. I'm assuming due to his title he can do and say what he pleases, but he should have the same PR filter the actual EQN dev team has. Still a few days left in the year to be able to get our hands on something that isn't a beta...
What he "can't wait to see" and what is reality might not be the same thing. He can't magically make a EQN PS4 version. I took that quote to be just another line of hype for EQN, SOE, Sony, PS4, etc. Obviously worked.
I'll hold off on making any judgement until we have even a small amount of detail into how EQN will actually work beyond the larger concepts. UI, combat, class templates/gear, interacting with the world etc.
Come on hating on consoles for no reason is just silly. Actually I think most people's PCs have much worse specs than a ps4. Besides it's not like pc exclusive mmos are amazing. They are crap without ever being ported to a console. Go figure.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
I am able to talk about an entire genre and can definitely read your entire post, except THIS topic is about EQN on a console, that's it. You continuously derail the topic for your own personal agenda.
This topic is about EQN on a console, NOT AN ENTIRE GENRE. Can you not read a topic? Do you need any assistance?
I'm playing LoTRO, and I have a bunch of things I can do:
- 3 debuff spells
- 2 melee attack skills
- 3 "magic" attack skills -- 2 are aoe
- 2 stun skills
- a heal
- a rez
- a transfer power
- a health potion quickbar
- a power potion quickbar
- an aoe slow
- an aoe aura effect
- a pet, with it's own attack, and follow buttons
There is just no way a 4 button controller can handle this. So the game has to be dumbed down, a lot. The PS4 and Xbone are about the same in hardware, like a medium PC at best. But limiting MMO's to 4, or 8 skills, just because of the lack of buttons, is ridiculous. Not to mention that all the console players won't be chatting in the chat channels.
The "good old days" of MMO's are over.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
The contraption you have shown was developed for a handicapped boy to be able to play because he couldn't properly use his fingers. It was then adapted for other uses, however, nothing like this would be needed.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
The macro'ing that happens in most MMOs proves to me that the traditional hotbar system is pretty bloated and has been due for a change. GW2 has been able to effectively add activated effects to other abilities via the build system and retain a limited skill set. You can add complexity with a smaller hotbar set.
Each time I see "dumbed down" and "lowest common denominator" in reference to the fewer hotbar skills in console play I have to chuckle. It's a personal preference to be sure but clicking skills in a certain order while staying out of the fire doesn't scream pro to me in contrast. I think we begin to show just how dangerously important games become when mud slinging happens over how many icons you have to click at any one time.
What I'm waiting for from action MMOs is to make the combat combo-based. The common complaint is that because there's fewer buttons on a gamepad, mapped skills become limited. It shouldn't be impossible to have access to a player's entire spellbook through a combo, just as how tekken and Street Fighter do it.
It's funny because you could EASILY use the d-pad to setup a couple focus targets and then just use the d-pad specifically to move through raid targets, etc.. Having one hotkey to jump to focus targets instantly. There....a solution that would probably work BETTER than mouse and keyboard in about 2 minutes...I would hope that a development team with many people, minds, and more time could top that.
lol .. cycling through heal targets /facepalm .. in any 1/2 decent encounter, the target you are trying to cycle to would be dead before you hit the button a third time. a perfect example of having to braindead content to fit the controller.
Yeah cause mousing over healthbars is so complex. I thought we wanted to get away from watching green bars anyway.
Wait, hold on. If you need to plug a keyboard and mouse into a console, what is the point of getting a console again?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
That's a reasonable response, and i can understand that.
But in regards to mmo and specifically eqn, if you need to do that to your console wouldn't you get a higher quality of experience on a pc?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
games.
...but if you plug in a kb and mouse you have a defacto PC?
Most of the games I play on a console simply are not available on a PC. I have PC games that I cannot get on a console. I have games that play better on pc than console and vice versa. I guess the trick is not worrying about it and just play the games you want. I personally have almost every console and handheld as well as a couple PCs. My only real concern as a gamer is time lol
That's a reasonable response, and i can understand that.
But in regards to mmo and specifically eqn, if you need to do that to your console wouldn't you get a higher quality of experience on a pc?
Depends on the UI and Controls, which I have not been able to try out yet. Besides, doesnt that game come out on both? So since I have both platforms, I get to choose which one works best for me. Im not sure what we are arguing about exactly haha.
I am willing to bet that the quality of experience between the two would be so marginal as to be practically non-existent. Do I really care if you are getting a slightly higher frame rate with your graphics tweaks maxed out on your 28 inch monitor? Not really.
Not in the friggin least when I am chilin' on the couch playing the game on my 100 inch projection screen with full surround, and a nice cold beer!
They are two different experiences and if you prefer yours on PC, then knock yourself out. But don't knock the rest of us that also enjoy a good console game now and then. We are having just as much fun as you. In the meantime, ask yourself why desktop PC sales keep dropping year after year. You might find your answer there.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Who is this "we"? I can't stand people that speak for this "majority" that they claim to be a part of when it's really not the case. Wildstar will already have the non-standard healing and it's HIGHLY unlikely that EQN will even come close to this so I'm not worried about satisfying that need multiple times.
Even so, if this was the case and they moved away from that model then it supports the controller even more since it's very easy to AIM on a controller. Yes it's marginally slower but it's still just an MMORPG not an FPS so it won't have any noticeable negative effect. ESPECIALLY when you consider how bad most MMO players are you can still easily shine.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
It's funny because you could EASILY use the d-pad to setup a couple focus targets and then just use the d-pad specifically to move through raid targets, etc.. Having one hotkey to jump to focus targets instantly. There....a solution that would probably work BETTER than mouse and keyboard in about 2 minutes...I would hope that a development team with many people, minds, and more time could top that.
lol .. cycling through heal targets /facepalm .. in any 1/2 decent encounter, the target you are trying to cycle to would be dead before you hit the button a third time. a perfect example of having to braindead content to fit the controller.
Yeah cause mousing over healthbars is so complex. I thought we wanted to get away from watching green bars anyway.
Who is this "we"? I can't stand people that speak for this "majority" that they claim to be a part of when it's really not the case. Wildstar will already have the non-standard healing and it's HIGHLY unlikely that EQN will even come close to this so I'm not worried about satisfying that need multiple times.
Even so, if this was the case and they moved away from that model then it supports the controller even more since it's very easy to AIM on a controller. Yes it's marginally slower but it's still just an MMORPG not an FPS so it won't have any noticeable negative effect. ESPECIALLY when you consider how bad most MMO players are you can still easily shine.
There is no "we". That was kinda the point :P
Listening to what Smedly has to say about a game he seems to have no interest in...
If Smedly says something about PS2, I'll listen, until he actually shows any interest in EQN, I'll hold off. I'm assuming due to his title he can do and say what he pleases, but he should have the same PR filter the actual EQN dev team has. Still a few days left in the year to be able to get our hands on something that isn't a beta...
What he "can't wait to see" and what is reality might not be the same thing. He can't magically make a EQN PS4 version. I took that quote to be just another line of hype for EQN, SOE, Sony, PS4, etc. Obviously worked.
I'll hold off on making any judgement until we have even a small amount of detail into how EQN will actually work beyond the larger concepts. UI, combat, class templates/gear, interacting with the world etc.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'll be getting EQN/L for my PC but i'm getting ESO for my PS4 because i want to sit on my sofa and play ESO on my 55in Samsung smart tv.
I do have a 27in Samsung QHD monitor running at 2560 x 1440 but i want to sit on my sofa lol.
MMORPGs are a genre, not a platform.
Discussing MMORPGs does not preclude you from being a fan of something other than PCs.... which seem to be the point of Foomerang's post.
There's a lot of irrational hatred of consoles by people around here.