Was hoping for way better graphics, will be giving this one a miss, would find it very hard to get immersed in this game( Cartoon Art style) no matter how good the mechanics.
Someone needs to plaster Apoc's house with the Uncanny Valley graph before he looks more like an ass picking fights for no reason.
As is : OP you need to step back and decide which matters more: Aesthetics or graphics, I kinda like EQN's aesthetics and I would never call something like Archeage realistic or any of the other realistic MMOs because they are so far up the ass end of the Uncanny Valley that you cannot really enjoy them if you have any analytical capabilities.
You have a very smart way of calling other people stupid.
Do you think i give a damn about some hypothesized emotional response study that was from the 70s? AA,Bless,Repop,SS and any other well made realistic game, would like to have a word with Masahiro Mori. Your study sites robotics and most recently, CGI form movies like tintin and the the polar express.
Show me a study with the above games and well talk.
it isn't about games but about the human reaction to things which look almost life-like but aren't which applies to robotics and CGI quite well. Game graphics are in themselves also CGI so fall within the area of coverage for this human characteristic, Hell immersion within "realistic" games is based on it and it is the main reason why no, and I do mean no, realistic MMO's have ever hit the profitability of non-realistic ones (EVE-Online is realistic to a degree yes but it has also had, by what I recall, three major revisions to its graphics during its 10 year lifespan so far with many tweaks to graphics post Revelations).
Realistic graphics dont look realistic? I dont even know what top say to this. As realistic as a MMO could get i guess. Not photo realism but realism for a mmo? they are starting to get very real.
As for your personal preference for immersion? That cant be deputed. your tastes are yours and thats fine. But as for me its not. Its like saying you cant get immersed in say Star Wars because there is no way there could be a fat slug creature talking to a guy that is the captain of a ship that can travel through space with a first mate who is 9 ft tall. Thats just silly. So you cant immerse yourself in the atmosphere and the story. I feel sorry for you if thats the case.
Realistic (for me) will always top stylized. And those games are being made right now.
You said it yourself. As realistic as an MMO could get. And that's not very real. Go check the Witcher 3 CGI trailer and you'll see we're still ways off of presenting even that level of realism in gameplay, much less actually realistic graphics.
Your example about Star Wars has nothing to do with my problem with EVE spaceships lacking mass and substance, I don't know where you pulled that one out. Suspense of disbelief doesn't mean I can't "believe" in the fictional creatures in a fictional universe, as long as they seem and act like real creatures/objects. Try to understand the difference.
Immersion also has nothing to do with realistic graphics. Or are you seriously telling me you find the current "realistic" graphics so real that you mistake them for real life? Seriously? Immersion can happen just aswell in a cartoon world. If you can't immerse yourself in a cartoon world, it's just your lack of imagination. Of course if you just choose not to immerse yourself in a cartoon world, it's a whole different story. Which is it?
Are any of those that think Bless/Black Desert are years ahead of EQN or current games actually looking at game play?
Screen shots, flybys, up close renderings, and cinematic cut scenes are not the game (at least not to me). What you see the majority of time while playing are.
I can't argue that some games coming out look "better" depending on your criteria, but not amazingly better than what is already out.
No idea why OP used Forged by Chaos or Monster Hunter Online for comparison. Both are nothing special compared to upcoming titles. Guess because those specific ss were pretty, but the games are pretty blah.
These videos really don't wow me at all. Both games look very similar and while they do look "better" than FFXIV AAR, GW2, Tera, Archeage, it only makes sense as they are newer. Newer is usually better (not always).
(Might not be the most current, but feel free to show me some that are "better")
They do look more realistic then current games, but again as others have said, this is the style they are going for. I'm fairly certain, SOE could of gone in this direction if they wanted to. Forgelight is a very capable engine. They didn't want to, simple.
They are going for a stylized, "cartoony", heroic look. It is intentional. It seems that some people can't grasp this idea.
Not every game has to look the same or have the same things in it (could Bless and BD get any more similar?).
You either like the style or you don't. To me it is Apples to Oranges. WoW, Wildstar, EQ, EQ2 and EQN are all similar to me. They all do their own thing, but they are are one end of the spectrum with the Asian/Realistic market is on the other.
Different styles for different markets.
Bless and Black Desert can't grab my interest what so ever. Much like TESO. They just don't do it for me and I think a lot of that is due to the similarities to other games and the attempt to be realistic but falling short.
EQN has Forgelight, Voxels, assuming a lot of character detail with Forgelight effects and the use of Soemote, and a colorful world to make things come alive.
Comparing one game to another, especially graphic is pointless overall. I think it is less to do with EQN taking advantage of newer tech and more about people just disliking the art style in general. Get over it already. Or go get hired by SOE and convince them to scrap the entire game once again, use another companies engine, and make the game just like every other one out and coming out. Then we can all complain how it copied such and such game and how SOE isn't original or doing their own thing.
Sometimes the simpler path is the better one for more people. Take WoW and Minecraft for example. I don't remember anyone complaining WoW didn't look realistic, even though there were realistic games done at the same time (EQ2 somewhat). Or that Minecraft looks like a 7 year old designed it. Both have had millions of players with no problem feeling immersed in the cartoony worlds.
If you value poly count, realism, and a pretty game over another games content or style, play what you prefer. Do people go onto a Mario forum and complain that it doesn't look like Metal Gear Solid?
Some of the same people have been complaining since SOE announced EQN back in Aug, I'm assuming they will continue to do so until release and beyond. Pointless, but that is their right. Sucks they have nothing better to do or that these other "better" games aren't distracting enough for them that they have to come here and moan.
I should go to the BD/Bless forums and complain that they don't have Voxels, SOEmote, Forgelight specific features, don't look like EQN, and most of all don't have huge shoulderpads!!! I smell fail right there.
I've looked at Archeage and Black Gold/Desert etc etc.
To me, subjectively there's something a bit off with the shiny graphics. It looks plastic and static sheet covering everything?
Whereas that's sort of the point I'm not really being clear about with SOE's engine LightForge (or whatever it's called) it looks like the world fits together even without the voxel stuff. Great terrain in PS2 and EQN.
So I don't believe tech is the only determinant of "good graphics". I'd say how jarring somethings are. For eg the characters in AA and BG they seem very floaty.
Anyway I hope that opinion adds moat of dust to the ongoing graphics discussions. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.
Actually, tech IS the only determining factor when it comes to graphics.
Problem is that most people (and nearly everyone in this thread) seem to confuse 'graphics' with 'art style'.
Graphics are the technology that goes into making the art style look good. It's the resolution of the textures, the lightning / shading, the aliasing, reflections / refractions, shadow resolution, draw limitations, etc. It's highly objective.
Art style, on the other hand, is whether you think the overall look / feel of the game works. Or whether or not you feel it works better than in another game. And this is where the majority of the disputes really exist. EQN's art style is both current and outdated at the same time.
It is a throwback to some older games that used less taxing graphics to allow for more robust gameplay and server tech. However, they managed to do it in such a way that mirrors what was done in games like Bioshock, Dishonored, and Team Fortress 2. All of which have great art styles.
As for graphics, they are current enough that they aren't obscelete. Which is about all you can hope for from an MMO. Complaining about less than current graphics in an MMO is kind of ridiculous, tbh, because MMOs are ALWAYS behind the curve in that regard. They simply have to be. Games like Monster Hunter can get away with better graphics because they are much more segregated games. The world is much more heavily sliced into smaller chunks, whereas most MMOs try to make themselves as large as possible.
I concede that is true.
I was just looking at No Man's Sky and Bungie's Destiny. From the small samples, I'd say those worlds look like they fit together and therefore good graphics and good style.
The CryEngine and Unreal used in those MMOs AA and Black Desert/Gold they've failed to make the world fit together. It's plastic somehow. Same with Tera.
The objective measures are all high standard but the end result fails. I'd say that might be where the final test is: How people feel/react to the graphics and what reaction you are going for.
EQN I am not really interested in, but they have got that feeling of the world fitting together right. Maybe there is an art word terminology for that result that would be useful to slap on?!
EQN I am not really interested in, but they have got that feeling of the world fitting together right. Maybe there is an art word terminology for that result that would be useful to slap on?!
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
EQN I am not really interested in, but they have got that feeling of the world fitting together right. Maybe there is an art word terminology for that result that would be useful to slap on?!
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
Hmm, those algorithms seem to create a fractal irregularity-regularity that you get in nature however which seems to work better in total effect?
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
Pretty much this (especially the red). I'm a big graphics buff and I love to push my rig into the limit but with the concerns of EQN/EQL I am glad they took the stylized route.
Tons of "realistic" games coming out and now a couple of voxel games coming out as well. Don't see the problem.
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
Pretty much this (especially the red). I'm a big graphics buff and I love to push my rig into the limit but with the concerns of EQN/EQL I am glad they took the stylized route.
Tons of "realistic" games coming out and now a couple of voxel games coming out as well. Don't see the problem.
The thing is, these graphics are a direct result of using technology that allows us to change the world and build things in this game. While I think they could have made better choices on what I have seen of the color pallet, the rest of the look is what it is. Given the choice, I would prefer a more "realistic" look myself, but I know that's not going to be possible with the state of voxel technology these days.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
Pretty much this (especially the red). I'm a big graphics buff and I love to push my rig into the limit but with the concerns of EQN/EQL I am glad they took the stylized route.
Tons of "realistic" games coming out and now a couple of voxel games coming out as well. Don't see the problem.
The problem is some people want EQNext's features with Black Desert's graphics and fail to realize it's not possible with current tech. That's when they come to this thread (and the dozen others like it) to cry about cartoony graphics, because their realistic graphics games suck balls when it comes to gameplay depth.
Thos guys won't be happy for another 5-10 years, at least. If ever.
Artistic style gives games their flavor. wanting all games to conform to the realistic style is the same as wanting all games to be anime styled. I wouldn't want a world where every game looks the same.
Someone said that EQNext graphics are on par with recent MMO.
I disagree.
EQNext is somewhere between the era of WoW and 2013, but it's not even in the ballpark of recent MMO.
VS
At first I was afraid, I was pretrafied. But now you got the graphics snobs all up in my pride. I thought you would treat this with a little respect, but no you're back to bother us, oh no not I....I won't just take this with a little grain of salt!
So basically you are trying to compare tech demo's, games that have 1/4 the features, or completely different engines? Go back to school. You are done here. There are guards posted at the main entry/exits and you can't commit your dirty deeds. Walk away....just move on. FInd a repository or something instead.
I think the real comparison should be: how does the Cryengine MMO compare performance wise to EQNext? How does the Cryengine MMO compare to EQNext with large scale battles (PvP/raiding) in mind? Realistic graphics usually equals horrible performance, just saying. We won't know the answer to this question for quite a while, but I think it's safe to say that, EQNext will do MUCH better compared. Especially given what SoE will have learned from Planetside 2, which uses the same engine.
I think the real comparison should be: how does the Cryengine MMO compare performance wise to EQNext? How does the Cryengine MMO compare to EQNext with large scale battles (PvP/raiding) in mind? Realistic graphics usually equals horrible performance, just saying. We won't know the answer to this question for quite a while, but I think it's safe to say that, EQNext will do MUCH better compared. Especially given what SoE will have learned from Planetside 2, which uses the same engine.
I watched a few videos of Balck Desert Online and Bless Online last night... the game play look about average I say, and while in game - the graphics looked average. The still screenshots look awesome, but only average while actually playing at a decent framerate... at least from the videos I watched.
In short, I don't mind the stylized graphics/art of EQN, Wildstar etc... I suppose I'm in the game play over graphics group.
I'll admit that I am really looking forward to this. So I have a skewed prescpective. And I'll admit that the graphic detail in EQ next is not equal to that of cry3..
BUT having said that... the OP is WAY off base when he/she says that these graphics are 5+ years old.. That is just not the case. what MMO's where coming out 5 years ago? Warhammer online? AoC? these graphics are on par for the last year or so. (IMO)
Yes the poster did a nice job of getting the 2 most graphicly impressive MMO's out there to compare to.. But its hardly fair IMO. Its apples and oranges. Yes they are both MMO's...and thats about where the simularity stops.
Does any of the cry3 games have voxel based terrain? thats fully destructible? where you can build castles and mountains?
...didn't think so.
As for me, I do get impressed by the newest shiniest graphics.. but at the end of the day, I'm still playing Age of Empires2, Minecraft and League of legends... none of which are known for the graphics.
Yeah if they had the latest and greatest graphics they might get a large crowd at first, but it would drop off probably 70% after the first month, better that SoE focus on gameplay.
The engine is a modified version of the one used in Planetside 2 and it's pretty good tbh. Considering battles in PS2 can contain upto 2000 players, on massive seamless indoor/outdoor terrain with high detail dynamic lighting and a proper physics engine (where debris can actually hurt you) etc. With a decent spec you can still hit 60-80fps on high detail with bullets and explosions going off all over the place. The EQ:Next usage of the engine is different though, the terrain is different and the maps look a lot more enclosed and scaled down. Where as in PS2 the maps are more lifelike in scale with large expanses, to allow for fast vehicles and massive battles.
The cry engine has been used in a few MMOs and it's nothing special. The map sizes are not as big as a proper MMO focused engine and it's just not optimized for the kind of chaos you find in open world MMOs.
The cry engine has been used in a few MMOs and it's nothing special. The map sizes are not as big as a proper MMO focused engine and it's just not optimized for the kind of chaos you find in MMOs.
A "proper MMO focused engine?" The only MMO focused engine I know about, that supports your argument, is maybe Blizzards internal engine they've developed for WoW, which was still based on WC3. Funcom built their engine for MMO's so I guess that counts as well. Aside from that, every other game just licenses a generic engine like Unreal and creates the middleware to handle the networking and databases. A few stragglers use HERO or Unity, with HERO at least being built from the ground up for MMO's (unfortunately it was built for an older style of zoned mmo's).
Anyway, compared to alternative engines, map sizes are pretty much unrelated to the engine that's used, because they all handle things roughly the same way (LoD, steaming zones, etc). There's a reason you rarely ever see huge open space terrain, except for maybe in some indie games that don't perform very well.
Everyone talking about this engine.. that engine.. this is better that is better..
Most of the time the dev picks the engine based on whatever criteria they have and then they develop or buy middleware to actually run the MMO aspects of it. Very few engines are built from the ground up to accommodate MMO games and even if they are it will still need modification by the developer to get it running with how their own infrastructure is set up.
It's not impossible to have excellent graphical fidelity along with good gameplay and features. It just takes development time. The reason EQN is voxel based is because it's easier to work with when changing terrain and the environment. That's not to say it's impossible to do on a different engine, it just takes time and money to make it work as well. By the same reasoning it's also not impossible to have awesome graphics in a voxel based game, it just takes time and money.
Some engines are better at some things than others, that's why EQN uses the voxel engine. It means they get spend more time working on the features and content because they spend less time wrestling with getting the engine working with the building aspects. It does mean however that graphically they start from a position that is further behind and needs more investment to bring it up to par with what they could have had the other way around. Sure they could have pimped out the graphics in Unreal or CryEngine but they would have had a hell of a time getting what they consider to be core features working properly. It's all about the trade off at the end of the day since they have neither unlimited time or money and they decided to let the graphics slide in favour of the features and content.
And while I'm here.. all this talk of CryEngine and nobody even mentioned Star Citizen.. It's a perfect example of how an engine can be modified completely beyond it's original scope and made to work with games not even remotely in the same genre as was originally intended.
Star Citizen will support Rift and TrackIR along with multimonitor support. They are using tech from Infinite Realities and 3lateral for facial animation/rigging. It will also have an accurate Newtonian physics engine so things like thrusters etc are all modeled accurately and can be damaged without it being scripted. The spacecraft themselves fly using assisted flight systems as current jet fighters employ and they are looking to see if they want to add the option of having the assisted flight disabled also.
Here's a demo from 3lateral on their facial animations and we have reason to believe this is what we can expect from the single player, Squadron 42, campaign at least. The developers have commented saying that their tech will at least surpass Ryse: Son of Rome - http://3lateral.com/projects/tyrone-2/
They are also taking stuff around to cons that can scan faces and can put it in the game, there's even talk of being able to use a camera to lip sync your character with yourself and it could possibly extend into imitating facial expressions also.
For the graphics themselves you need look no further than these videos;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVaR1wHRWX0 - Demonstration of the PBR (Physically Based Rendering) system they are working on (Basically you do away with different 'maps' for the textures and assign them physical properties)
They are also taking stuff around to cons that can scan faces and can put it in the game, there's even talk of being able to use a camera to lip sync your character with yourself and it could possibly extend into imitating facial expressions also.
Look up SoEmote. SoE beat them too it on that one. And I'm not 100% certain but fairly positive they are putting that into EQN and EQN:Landmark as well.
Question: I read that Black Desert’s game engine is self-developed. Why not use CryEngine or Unreal Engine?
Answer : Early in the development of Pearl Abyss, we aspired to create an entirely different game from typical MMORPGs available today, including the rendering of art and graphics. At the same time, we needed an engine that would be able to meet the technical requirements of a large scale castle siege.
So with an abundance of in-house experience in developing game engines, gained through previous projects, we made our own. We felt that utilizing our own engine would help us with debugging and customization.
Comments
Was hoping for way better graphics, will be giving this one a miss, would find it very hard to get immersed in this game( Cartoon Art style) no matter how good the mechanics.
So yes +1 to the poster .
You said it yourself. As realistic as an MMO could get. And that's not very real. Go check the Witcher 3 CGI trailer and you'll see we're still ways off of presenting even that level of realism in gameplay, much less actually realistic graphics.
Your example about Star Wars has nothing to do with my problem with EVE spaceships lacking mass and substance, I don't know where you pulled that one out. Suspense of disbelief doesn't mean I can't "believe" in the fictional creatures in a fictional universe, as long as they seem and act like real creatures/objects. Try to understand the difference.
Immersion also has nothing to do with realistic graphics. Or are you seriously telling me you find the current "realistic" graphics so real that you mistake them for real life? Seriously? Immersion can happen just aswell in a cartoon world. If you can't immerse yourself in a cartoon world, it's just your lack of imagination. Of course if you just choose not to immerse yourself in a cartoon world, it's a whole different story. Which is it?
Are any of those that think Bless/Black Desert are years ahead of EQN or current games actually looking at game play?
Screen shots, flybys, up close renderings, and cinematic cut scenes are not the game (at least not to me). What you see the majority of time while playing are.
I can't argue that some games coming out look "better" depending on your criteria, but not amazingly better than what is already out.
No idea why OP used Forged by Chaos or Monster Hunter Online for comparison. Both are nothing special compared to upcoming titles. Guess because those specific ss were pretty, but the games are pretty blah.
These videos really don't wow me at all. Both games look very similar and while they do look "better" than FFXIV AAR, GW2, Tera, Archeage, it only makes sense as they are newer. Newer is usually better (not always).
(Might not be the most current, but feel free to show me some that are "better")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrV3I_J-mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pKJkMWyioo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hxcX70V8RU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzfDt-ZjesA
They do look more realistic then current games, but again as others have said, this is the style they are going for. I'm fairly certain, SOE could of gone in this direction if they wanted to. Forgelight is a very capable engine. They didn't want to, simple.
They are going for a stylized, "cartoony", heroic look. It is intentional. It seems that some people can't grasp this idea.
Not every game has to look the same or have the same things in it (could Bless and BD get any more similar?).
You either like the style or you don't. To me it is Apples to Oranges. WoW, Wildstar, EQ, EQ2 and EQN are all similar to me. They all do their own thing, but they are are one end of the spectrum with the Asian/Realistic market is on the other.
Different styles for different markets.
Bless and Black Desert can't grab my interest what so ever. Much like TESO. They just don't do it for me and I think a lot of that is due to the similarities to other games and the attempt to be realistic but falling short.
EQN has Forgelight, Voxels, assuming a lot of character detail with Forgelight effects and the use of Soemote, and a colorful world to make things come alive.
Comparing one game to another, especially graphic is pointless overall. I think it is less to do with EQN taking advantage of newer tech and more about people just disliking the art style in general. Get over it already. Or go get hired by SOE and convince them to scrap the entire game once again, use another companies engine, and make the game just like every other one out and coming out. Then we can all complain how it copied such and such game and how SOE isn't original or doing their own thing.
Sometimes the simpler path is the better one for more people. Take WoW and Minecraft for example. I don't remember anyone complaining WoW didn't look realistic, even though there were realistic games done at the same time (EQ2 somewhat). Or that Minecraft looks like a 7 year old designed it. Both have had millions of players with no problem feeling immersed in the cartoony worlds.
If you value poly count, realism, and a pretty game over another games content or style, play what you prefer. Do people go onto a Mario forum and complain that it doesn't look like Metal Gear Solid?
Some of the same people have been complaining since SOE announced EQN back in Aug, I'm assuming they will continue to do so until release and beyond. Pointless, but that is their right. Sucks they have nothing better to do or that these other "better" games aren't distracting enough for them that they have to come here and moan.
I should go to the BD/Bless forums and complain that they don't have Voxels, SOEmote, Forgelight specific features, don't look like EQN, and most of all don't have huge shoulderpads!!! I smell fail right there.
I concede that is true.
I was just looking at No Man's Sky and Bungie's Destiny. From the small samples, I'd say those worlds look like they fit together and therefore good graphics and good style.
The CryEngine and Unreal used in those MMOs AA and Black Desert/Gold they've failed to make the world fit together. It's plastic somehow. Same with Tera.
The objective measures are all high standard but the end result fails. I'd say that might be where the final test is: How people feel/react to the graphics and what reaction you are going for.
EQN I am not really interested in, but they have got that feeling of the world fitting together right. Maybe there is an art word terminology for that result that would be useful to slap on?!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
You might be looking for the Gestalt principles.
Voxels and Procedural Graphics...
When I see these threads, I just cringe. The graphics in this game look like they do because THEY HAVE TO. This is the state of the art of voxel/procedural graphics.
I'm not going to go into an exhaustive explanation here, but the bottom line is that the EQ Next world is largely built and painted by algorithms, not people, like a standard MMO is. Because of this, the graphics look more cartoony. They clearly made a design choice to match the characters to the world, rather than put more "realistic" looking characters on top of the procedural art.
Go look at any voxel game out there, and tell me if any of them look like Cryengine games in the least.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Dang, that's good. Thank you. Those poor McCain's however...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Hmm, those algorithms seem to create a fractal irregularity-regularity that you get in nature however which seems to work better in total effect?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Pretty much this (especially the red). I'm a big graphics buff and I love to push my rig into the limit but with the concerns of EQN/EQL I am glad they took the stylized route.
Tons of "realistic" games coming out and now a couple of voxel games coming out as well. Don't see the problem.
The thing is, these graphics are a direct result of using technology that allows us to change the world and build things in this game. While I think they could have made better choices on what I have seen of the color pallet, the rest of the look is what it is. Given the choice, I would prefer a more "realistic" look myself, but I know that's not going to be possible with the state of voxel technology these days.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
The problem is some people want EQNext's features with Black Desert's graphics and fail to realize it's not possible with current tech. That's when they come to this thread (and the dozen others like it) to cry about cartoony graphics, because their realistic graphics games suck balls when it comes to gameplay depth.
Thos guys won't be happy for another 5-10 years, at least. If ever.
At first I was afraid, I was pretrafied. But now you got the graphics snobs all up in my pride. I thought you would treat this with a little respect, but no you're back to bother us, oh no not I....I won't just take this with a little grain of salt!
So basically you are trying to compare tech demo's, games that have 1/4 the features, or completely different engines? Go back to school. You are done here. There are guards posted at the main entry/exits and you can't commit your dirty deeds. Walk away....just move on. FInd a repository or something instead.
I sense topic deja vu, so here's the Uncanny Valley.
I think the real comparison should be: how does the Cryengine MMO compare performance wise to EQNext? How does the Cryengine MMO compare to EQNext with large scale battles (PvP/raiding) in mind? Realistic graphics usually equals horrible performance, just saying. We won't know the answer to this question for quite a while, but I think it's safe to say that, EQNext will do MUCH better compared. Especially given what SoE will have learned from Planetside 2, which uses the same engine.
^
ForgeLight Engine - Scale, with ultra graphics and physx on top of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDZ7ZgZnIrM
Numbers game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvmKEgSrgXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWAHbiZLLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADiLfCwdA0
Air Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaaD4_ENU9I
Yes im beating a dead horse...i need glue.
I watched a few videos of Balck Desert Online and Bless Online last night... the game play look about average I say, and while in game - the graphics looked average. The still screenshots look awesome, but only average while actually playing at a decent framerate... at least from the videos I watched.
In short, I don't mind the stylized graphics/art of EQN, Wildstar etc... I suppose I'm in the game play over graphics group.
"Youre in our world now!"
I'll admit that I am really looking forward to this. So I have a skewed prescpective. And I'll admit that the graphic detail in EQ next is not equal to that of cry3..
BUT having said that... the OP is WAY off base when he/she says that these graphics are 5+ years old.. That is just not the case. what MMO's where coming out 5 years ago? Warhammer online? AoC? these graphics are on par for the last year or so. (IMO)
Yes the poster did a nice job of getting the 2 most graphicly impressive MMO's out there to compare to.. But its hardly fair IMO. Its apples and oranges. Yes they are both MMO's...and thats about where the simularity stops.
Does any of the cry3 games have voxel based terrain? thats fully destructible? where you can build castles and mountains?
...didn't think so.
As for me, I do get impressed by the newest shiniest graphics.. but at the end of the day, I'm still playing Age of Empires2, Minecraft and League of legends... none of which are known for the graphics.
Yeah if they had the latest and greatest graphics they might get a large crowd at first, but it would drop off probably 70% after the first month, better that SoE focus on gameplay.
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The engine is a modified version of the one used in Planetside 2 and it's pretty good tbh. Considering battles in PS2 can contain upto 2000 players, on massive seamless indoor/outdoor terrain with high detail dynamic lighting and a proper physics engine (where debris can actually hurt you) etc. With a decent spec you can still hit 60-80fps on high detail with bullets and explosions going off all over the place. The EQ:Next usage of the engine is different though, the terrain is different and the maps look a lot more enclosed and scaled down. Where as in PS2 the maps are more lifelike in scale with large expanses, to allow for fast vehicles and massive battles.
The cry engine has been used in a few MMOs and it's nothing special. The map sizes are not as big as a proper MMO focused engine and it's just not optimized for the kind of chaos you find in open world MMOs.
A "proper MMO focused engine?" The only MMO focused engine I know about, that supports your argument, is maybe Blizzards internal engine they've developed for WoW, which was still based on WC3. Funcom built their engine for MMO's so I guess that counts as well. Aside from that, every other game just licenses a generic engine like Unreal and creates the middleware to handle the networking and databases. A few stragglers use HERO or Unity, with HERO at least being built from the ground up for MMO's (unfortunately it was built for an older style of zoned mmo's).
Anyway, compared to alternative engines, map sizes are pretty much unrelated to the engine that's used, because they all handle things roughly the same way (LoD, steaming zones, etc). There's a reason you rarely ever see huge open space terrain, except for maybe in some indie games that don't perform very well.
You make me like charity
Everyone talking about this engine.. that engine.. this is better that is better..
Most of the time the dev picks the engine based on whatever criteria they have and then they develop or buy middleware to actually run the MMO aspects of it. Very few engines are built from the ground up to accommodate MMO games and even if they are it will still need modification by the developer to get it running with how their own infrastructure is set up.
It's not impossible to have excellent graphical fidelity along with good gameplay and features. It just takes development time. The reason EQN is voxel based is because it's easier to work with when changing terrain and the environment. That's not to say it's impossible to do on a different engine, it just takes time and money to make it work as well. By the same reasoning it's also not impossible to have awesome graphics in a voxel based game, it just takes time and money.
Some engines are better at some things than others, that's why EQN uses the voxel engine. It means they get spend more time working on the features and content because they spend less time wrestling with getting the engine working with the building aspects. It does mean however that graphically they start from a position that is further behind and needs more investment to bring it up to par with what they could have had the other way around. Sure they could have pimped out the graphics in Unreal or CryEngine but they would have had a hell of a time getting what they consider to be core features working properly. It's all about the trade off at the end of the day since they have neither unlimited time or money and they decided to let the graphics slide in favour of the features and content.
And while I'm here.. all this talk of CryEngine and nobody even mentioned Star Citizen.. It's a perfect example of how an engine can be modified completely beyond it's original scope and made to work with games not even remotely in the same genre as was originally intended.
Star Citizen will support Rift and TrackIR along with multimonitor support. They are using tech from Infinite Realities and 3lateral for facial animation/rigging. It will also have an accurate Newtonian physics engine so things like thrusters etc are all modeled accurately and can be damaged without it being scripted. The spacecraft themselves fly using assisted flight systems as current jet fighters employ and they are looking to see if they want to add the option of having the assisted flight disabled also.
Here's a demo from 3lateral on their facial animations and we have reason to believe this is what we can expect from the single player, Squadron 42, campaign at least. The developers have commented saying that their tech will at least surpass Ryse: Son of Rome - http://3lateral.com/projects/tyrone-2/
They are also taking stuff around to cons that can scan faces and can put it in the game, there's even talk of being able to use a camera to lip sync your character with yourself and it could possibly extend into imitating facial expressions also.
For the graphics themselves you need look no further than these videos;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk - Recorded at 4k res realtime in game, to view select 'Original' from the youtube settings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVaR1wHRWX0 - Demonstration of the PBR (Physically Based Rendering) system they are working on (Basically you do away with different 'maps' for the textures and assign them physical properties)
It's not even a valid comparison. To me they both look damn amazing, but they have completely different art styles.
It's like saying Call of Duty looks better than Mario. Why would Mario look like Call of Duty?
Look up SoEmote. SoE beat them too it on that one. And I'm not 100% certain but fairly positive they are putting that into EQN and EQN:Landmark as well.
Pretty much.
http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/03/black-desert-interview-with-developer-pearl-abyss/
Question: I read that Black Desert’s game engine is self-developed. Why not use CryEngine or Unreal Engine?
Answer : Early in the development of Pearl Abyss, we aspired to create an entirely different game from typical MMORPGs available today, including the rendering of art and graphics. At the same time, we needed an engine that would be able to meet the technical requirements of a large scale castle siege.
So with an abundance of in-house experience in developing game engines, gained through previous projects, we made our own. We felt that utilizing our own engine would help us with debugging and customization.