Originally posted by Cephus404 This is just more old school whining. Oh no, it's so horrible that the world doesn't stand still so I can do things I used to enjoy doing! There are tons of things that I've loved doing over the years that I no longer do because either the hobby has changed or I have. That's called reality. Old school gamers need to deal with it. They've stopped and the rest of the planet has moved on. The problem is them, not everyone else.
This argument would be more valid if your 'new school games' werent barren wastelands after 6 months. You're games are selling boxes, but not keeping subs or players. So maybe we're right, and you're wrong
News flash for you, that's how the games industry works. Someone puts out a game, lots of people buy it, lots of people play it and they all move on to the next game. The life cycle of virtually all games is like that. There are virtually no games that people cling to for years on end.
Kudos on your post, O.P. I feel similarly. Cheers.
Regarding the posts directly above this one, I agree the industry has become a quick cash and grab operation; retention and longevity aren't really the goals any more; at least until players get wise to the fleecing.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Spector88 Turning a corner... into a small cellar. ha
Cellars are known for storing goods, especially quality ones, so you may very well find a hidden surprise.
Helps to play single player or non-mmo multiplayer games as well. If you start out playing mmos it may be harder, but I started out playing Nintendo and then single and multiplayer computer games. Not sure why'd you go straight console, when the PC has so many options other than mmos. Other than some alpha/betas, I keep semi-informed on the new mmos coming out. No point in always trying to find a new mmo, like some people do, let some time pass and see what your options are then.
As to quality and direction of mmo gaming, others can discuss that
"New school" games aren't about selling boxes as you put it. Rarely does an MMO make a profit on box sales. The reason for the big drop in subscribers has less to do with the quality of the game and more to do with the number of options gamers have in games. 10-15 years ago your options were pretty limited in terms of MMOs. Nowadays you have 3-4 high profile MMO releases a year and even more if you count indie releases. If you had the kinds of options we have now back then I'm sure you'd have the same decrease in membership a few months after release of a new game.
Originally posted by pb1285n "New school" games aren't about selling boxes as you put it. Rarely does an MMO make a profit on box sales. The reason for the big drop in subscribers has less to do with the quality of the game and more to do with the number of options gamers have in games. 10-15 years ago your options were pretty limited in terms of MMOs. Nowadays you have 3-4 high profile MMO releases a year and even more if you count indie releases. If you had the kinds of options we have now back then I'm sure you'd have the same decrease in membership a few months after release of a new game.
That's exactly true, but it usually isn't 3-4 games a year, it's usually 3-4 games a month. Now, there are so many games on the market that it makes no sense to stick with a game that you don't like. Where once there were very few options and many people kept playing a game because their only option was not playing a game at all, today there's no reason whatsoever to stick with something you're not enjoying because there are tons of other alternatives. That's the same reason television ratings have changed so dramatically over the years, people used to have a choice of 3-4 channels, now they have hundreds. There's no reason to watch something you don't like.
Its not about the "quality" of the games. Its about how the games are consumed and designed that don't take advantage of strengths of the genre. Its about the games being made from one niche of the genre and usually streamlined at that. Its the content and progression that feels the same game to game. Content while polished is often contrived filler task to control progression vs. meaningful or epic quest. As an UO guy I'd like to have seen the next steeps of sandbox games after SWG and diversity similar to WoW clones. That's not asking for the past back its asking for past games to have a chance to grow into the future.
Originally posted by Talemire Dude, if you like old school, play Eldevin - It's amazing so far. It's a good game to sink your hobby roots into.
I tried it and, granted, I only played about a half-hour, but the perspective just sucks. I want to see where I'm going and the top-down, almost isometric view is awful, especially since I had to keep adjusting the view because it kept going back to almost top-down.
Stop dissecting MMO's like you're all armchair developers just play the damn games.
When you dissect something too much, you just kill it.
Try playing the game they make and stop giving a sh*t about what everyone else thinks. All day long people sit around on their arse wondering what so and so says about a game. Screw that garbage - just go into a game that nobody thinks is cool and just play the game they made.
It will revitalize MMO's for you.
There are 620 MMO's listed on this site and none of them are good enough for some of you. Screw that jazz - just chill out and try some man.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Stop dissecting MMO's like you're all armchair developers just play the damn games.
When you dissect something too much, you just kill it.
Try playing the game they make and stop giving a sh*t about what everyone else thinks. All day long people sit around on their arse wondering what so and so says about a game. Screw that garbage - just go into a game that nobody thinks is cool and just play the game they made.
It will revitalize MMO's for you.
There are 620 MMO's listed on this site and none of them are good enough for some of you. Screw that jazz - just chill out and try some man.
Lol, everyone doesn't play MMOs. I generally only play MMORPG and I simply don't like many I haven't played to death like UO. And I doubt anyone is sitting around all day complaining about MMORPG's. I actually have a fulltime/kids like a lot of people.
What you have is more people trying to figure out why they don't like MMORPG's anymore. Even if you've seen it on here a bunch of times.
I have played a slew of mmorpgs for the past 8 years, while some held my interest for a bit, most were a 1-2 months and then myself and the guild I am quit(400+ members). Darkfall online was the closest modern mmorpg that seem to get things right; it had fps combat, big world, cool features like being able to steal of kill a mount, territory control, but as with all Indie games it lacked serverly in areas.
The market is stagnant and until we see fully fledged mmorpgs that cross old school expansive, seemless, thriving worlds, with sandbox features, hosuing, territory control, with modern fps combat, graphics, no insane grind then we'll see a great area of mmorpgs.
We went from Gold era into dark ages where the all mighty dollar conquers all.
MMO's now a days are sucking. DAoC was my favorite game until they decided to go the expansion push with ToA and Catacombs. WoW was good until WotLK. Now I am looking for something to satisfy me. Then I came across this, Pathfinder Online ( https://goblinworks.com/ ). It's a sandbox MMO in developement and you get to put your input into the making. Read the blog, come to your own conclusions.
I've been playing computer games since before the OP was born, and started playing MMORPGs as soon as they came onto the scene. I can honestly say that I am still nowhere near close to being "burned out" or "bored" with the genre. If anything, the games just keep getting better and better.
Either most of the people here are entitlement junkies, suffer from ADHD, or have rose-colored glasses plastered to their faces. Enjoy the present folks, because your "poor me poor me I don't like MMORPGS any more and I have the attention span of a gnat" can put a serious kink in actually, you know, *enjoying* games.
Take some personal responsibility and stop blaming the games for your lack of interest, because you know what, it's you, not them, that might be the problem.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
I'm 25 years old. I've been playing MMORPG's since 1996. I grew up playing online games like EQ, Asheron's Call, DAoC, The Realm, indie games like Well of Souls... ARPG's like Diablo II, and LoD.
I have been trying to pin point the problem for over a year now. I think there is three major problems 1) Myself: MMO's and Online RPG's have become somewhat 'I've done this before feeling. 2) The games are now designed to sell boxes, and pressured by developers and not build to be a long term game (6 months+) 3) Games are no longer being designed uniquely and are instead sticking with already done content and methods AKA 'Cloning' ideas.
I think a vast majority of LONG time MMO players or 'older school' people are not as happy with the games, and I think we get upset time after time because we just haven't gotten used to the fact that MMO's are not being designed to have content and continue to be played for 6+ months on average, or atleast it appears. They want their box sales, play for a couple months til you burn out, and come back for a 40$ expansion a year later.
Our hardware has evolved, 10 years ago we had huge open worlds, non-instanced dungeons, open world active PvP, dynamic crafting, player housing, housing decoration, weapon crafting, exploration, giant 100 of miles wide continents, and yet.. Here we are 2013.. Games have shrunken map wise, they have become linear, there is less exploration than ever. And any game that capures some type of mind blowing level of one category seems to be severely lacking in the others.
I've made some of the best friends of my life and has some of my best memories playing MMO's. People I've kept in touch with for 5-10+ years, text, facebook, etc. all through MMO's. I've been able to escape sports, work, life and relax in a movie that I write my own plot to.
Games aren't being made for gamers by gamers anymore. Like everything in the world it is all about the dollar now. There is only two quality games right now I enjoy.. Path of Exile, and League of Legends, both companies give a completely free good product and make money off non-pay to win stuff. I despised Guild Wars 2, I despised how easy and dumbed now World of Warcraft has become, and these linear worlds I keep seeing. WHY CAN'T I GO OVER THE MOUNTAIN? WHY CAN'T I STUMBLE ACROSS SOME RANDOM DUNGEON NONE OF MY FRIENDS HAVE VENTURED OUT FAR ENOUGH TO SEE. Why can't I find 'my own hidden' hunting spots. Why are we getting smaller? easier? slower? less skills? less housing, creativity modification, than we did in 2005?
I am speaking in generalities, but facts show other than World of Warcraft there isn't really any game that maintains a majority of subs or even remotely close after release. There also hasnt been any games lately that gains even more traction 3-4 months after. They all lose and lose big 3-4 months in.
Some games I'm seeing are absolutely atrocious. I mean yes, the graphics are nice but when you compare the content / game size to an EQ, AC, or something its like, they took 10% of a true MMO and then put a shiny wrapper on it and charged 29.99 for it. I just feel like the market has been flooded with money grabs and the genre is not being pushed to the limit.
I'm not excited for EQNext because its not even remotely 'EQ' its a EQ story line with a completely different game many came to know and wanted. Maybe it will be good? Or maybe it will be the same as everything else. I just don't see anything changing on the horizon and I'm tired of coming home and being disappointed.
Time to go straight console gaming I guess.
Its really an easy answer for you OP. You are burned out. You have been playing mmos and orpg's since 1996 as you said. Maybe, its time for something new? Or at the very least, play some other games till you see an mmo that gives you that excited feeling again. I quit playing WoW about the time Icecrown content released in Wotlk. I tried a few mmos afterwards, but I also starting getting more games on steam (single player etc). I had a blast with gaming again. Then about a year or so ago I started playing mmos again. Having fun, and very much looking forward to Wildstar.
Originally posted by Thenno MMO's now a days are sucking. DAoC was my favorite game until they decided to go the expansion push with ToA and Catacombs. WoW was good until WotLK. Now I am looking for something to satisfy me. Then I came across this, Pathfinder Online ( https://goblinworks.com/ ). It's a sandbox MMO in developement and you get to put your input into the making. Read the blog, come to your own conclusions.
Just because you are jaded and think all mmos "suck", doesn't mean it's a fact. MMOs have evolved into someting different then they were 10 years ago+ This might not be what you wanted, but mmos are more popular today then they ever were before. I'm guessing that's because they have gotten a lot better.
People need to realize game companies are businesses.
They will produce whatever is least risky and has the best chance to make profit.
They will also have conducted quite a bit of market research before they sink 30 mil. into a project.
They will not spend all that cash to make a niche game after your personal taste.
Yes most MMOs are shallow as crap and cater to the lowest common denominator. Because that brings in the cash. Just like most music in the charts nowadays is crappy, just like a lot of big budget movies are more flash&bang than substance. It's how the mass market works.
Sooner or later someone will succeed with a fresh take on MMOs, at which point you will get 100 clones of that until everyone is fed up with it and the cycle starts again.
You may want to explore a vast open world and stumble on to a random dungeon.
But Lil' Timmy is just going to Google the dungeon location. Exploit his way through it till he finds the sword of bad assery than he's going to use it to kill you.
Until we get a PvE game that takes a stand against the PvP crowd. You're just not going to find that enriching experience like you had in Everquest.
Originally posted by Thenno MMO's now a days are sucking. DAoC was my favorite game until they decided to go the expansion push with ToA and Catacombs. WoW was good until WotLK. Now I am looking for something to satisfy me. Then I came across this, Pathfinder Online ( https://goblinworks.com/ ). It's a sandbox MMO in developement and you get to put your input into the making. Read the blog, come to your own conclusions.
Just because you are jaded and think all mmos "suck", doesn't mean it's a fact. MMOs have evolved into someting different then they were 10 years ago+ This might not be what you wanted, but mmos are more popular today then they ever were before. I'm guessing that's because they have gotten a lot better.
You've guessed incorrectly..... no prize for you.
Today's MMO's are clearly different, better is definitely a debatable point, hence threads like this one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Cephus404 This is just more old school whining. Oh no, it's so horrible that the world doesn't stand still so I can do things I used to enjoy doing! There are tons of things that I've loved doing over the years that I no longer do because either the hobby has changed or I have. That's called reality. Old school gamers need to deal with it. They've stopped and the rest of the planet has moved on. The problem is them, not everyone else.
This argument would be more valid if your 'new school games' werent barren wastelands after 6 months. You're games are selling boxes, but not keeping subs or players. So maybe we're right, and you're wrong
I'm 25 years old. I've been playing MMORPG's since 1995.
Meridian 59 released 1996. Ultima Online released 1997. Everquest released 1999. Hate to nitpick, but I don't think you were playing any MMORPG's in 1995, when you were 7 years old, and no MMORPG was out yet. Anyway, to the point, I think most gamers start to feel that way after a while and just need to take a break. Try some other game genres out then come back to MMO's later on.
MUDs have been out since the 80s and are definitely MMOs
there is just no innovation to the genre anymore. I am much older and was an adult playing EQ. Remember WoW on release. Around 2007 for me, it just seemed to be the same thing.
I have played star wars galaxies, swtor, guild wars 2, wow, and so many more over the years. I find myself drifting to console games because they are providing what mmo's are leaning towards. Large open , single player games.
More and more games are moving to console , and mmorpg's are just not doing anything to change with the times.
As you grow old and mature though (you are still young), you start to see how absolutely pointless it is to raid a dungeon, 5 nights a week, for virtual items, that you are going to replace in a few months. No one can so that all these dungeons are fun after the 50 th time being there.
That is the model of mmo's though, and it needs a change. SOme sort of direction into a new format.
I'm 25 years old. I've been playing MMORPG's since 1995.
Meridian 59 released 1996. Ultima Online released 1997. Everquest released 1999. Hate to nitpick, but I don't think you were playing any MMORPG's in 1995, when you were 7 years old, and no MMORPG was out yet. Anyway, to the point, I think most gamers start to feel that way after a while and just need to take a break. Try some other game genres out then come back to MMO's later on.
I apologize it was 1996. AOL's The Realm Online came out in 1996. I was 8 years old, and I played it almost every day until I was 12. You will have a hard time finding a human being on this earth that has atleast tried/played more ORPG/MMOs than me 60 years old or 3 years old.
Edit: btw, Realm is the longest running ORPG of all time, still has subs to this day and I THINK it came out before Meridian did.
Comments
News flash for you, that's how the games industry works. Someone puts out a game, lots of people buy it, lots of people play it and they all move on to the next game. The life cycle of virtually all games is like that. There are virtually no games that people cling to for years on end.
Games. You're playing them wrong.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Kudos on your post, O.P. I feel similarly. Cheers.
Regarding the posts directly above this one, I agree the industry has become a quick cash and grab operation; retention and longevity aren't really the goals any more; at least until players get wise to the fleecing.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Cellars are known for storing goods, especially quality ones, so you may very well find a hidden surprise.
Helps to play single player or non-mmo multiplayer games as well. If you start out playing mmos it may be harder, but I started out playing Nintendo and then single and multiplayer computer games. Not sure why'd you go straight console, when the PC has so many options other than mmos. Other than some alpha/betas, I keep semi-informed on the new mmos coming out. No point in always trying to find a new mmo, like some people do, let some time pass and see what your options are then.
As to quality and direction of mmo gaming, others can discuss that
That's exactly true, but it usually isn't 3-4 games a year, it's usually 3-4 games a month. Now, there are so many games on the market that it makes no sense to stick with a game that you don't like. Where once there were very few options and many people kept playing a game because their only option was not playing a game at all, today there's no reason whatsoever to stick with something you're not enjoying because there are tons of other alternatives. That's the same reason television ratings have changed so dramatically over the years, people used to have a choice of 3-4 channels, now they have hundreds. There's no reason to watch something you don't like.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I agree with the OP with that said.
I tried it and, granted, I only played about a half-hour, but the perspective just sucks. I want to see where I'm going and the top-down, almost isometric view is awful, especially since I had to keep adjusting the view because it kept going back to almost top-down.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Stop dissecting MMO's like you're all armchair developers just play the damn games.
When you dissect something too much, you just kill it.
Try playing the game they make and stop giving a sh*t about what everyone else thinks. All day long people sit around on their arse wondering what so and so says about a game. Screw that garbage - just go into a game that nobody thinks is cool and just play the game they made.
It will revitalize MMO's for you.
There are 620 MMO's listed on this site and none of them are good enough for some of you. Screw that jazz - just chill out and try some man.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Lol, everyone doesn't play MMOs. I generally only play MMORPG and I simply don't like many I haven't played to death like UO. And I doubt anyone is sitting around all day complaining about MMORPG's. I actually have a fulltime/kids like a lot of people.
What you have is more people trying to figure out why they don't like MMORPG's anymore. Even if you've seen it on here a bunch of times.
I have played a slew of mmorpgs for the past 8 years, while some held my interest for a bit, most were a 1-2 months and then myself and the guild I am quit(400+ members). Darkfall online was the closest modern mmorpg that seem to get things right; it had fps combat, big world, cool features like being able to steal of kill a mount, territory control, but as with all Indie games it lacked serverly in areas.
The market is stagnant and until we see fully fledged mmorpgs that cross old school expansive, seemless, thriving worlds, with sandbox features, hosuing, territory control, with modern fps combat, graphics, no insane grind then we'll see a great area of mmorpgs.
We went from Gold era into dark ages where the all mighty dollar conquers all.
MurderHerd
Go back to The Realm... I did and it was tons of fun.
I've been playing computer games since before the OP was born, and started playing MMORPGs as soon as they came onto the scene. I can honestly say that I am still nowhere near close to being "burned out" or "bored" with the genre. If anything, the games just keep getting better and better.
Either most of the people here are entitlement junkies, suffer from ADHD, or have rose-colored glasses plastered to their faces. Enjoy the present folks, because your "poor me poor me I don't like MMORPGS any more and I have the attention span of a gnat" can put a serious kink in actually, you know, *enjoying* games.
Take some personal responsibility and stop blaming the games for your lack of interest, because you know what, it's you, not them, that might be the problem.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
Its really an easy answer for you OP. You are burned out. You have been playing mmos and orpg's since 1996 as you said. Maybe, its time for something new? Or at the very least, play some other games till you see an mmo that gives you that excited feeling again. I quit playing WoW about the time Icecrown content released in Wotlk. I tried a few mmos afterwards, but I also starting getting more games on steam (single player etc). I had a blast with gaming again. Then about a year or so ago I started playing mmos again. Having fun, and very much looking forward to Wildstar.
Just because you are jaded and think all mmos "suck", doesn't mean it's a fact. MMOs have evolved into someting different then they were 10 years ago+ This might not be what you wanted, but mmos are more popular today then they ever were before. I'm guessing that's because they have gotten a lot better.
People need to realize game companies are businesses.
They will produce whatever is least risky and has the best chance to make profit.
They will also have conducted quite a bit of market research before they sink 30 mil. into a project.
They will not spend all that cash to make a niche game after your personal taste.
Yes most MMOs are shallow as crap and cater to the lowest common denominator. Because that brings in the cash. Just like most music in the charts nowadays is crappy, just like a lot of big budget movies are more flash&bang than substance. It's how the mass market works.
Sooner or later someone will succeed with a fresh take on MMOs, at which point you will get 100 clones of that until everyone is fed up with it and the cycle starts again.
But Lil' Timmy is just going to Google the dungeon location. Exploit his way through it till he finds the sword of bad assery than he's going to use it to kill you.
Until we get a PvE game that takes a stand against the PvP crowd. You're just not going to find that enriching experience like you had in Everquest.
I think mmo games are in a dry spell cause devs now that we want something different.
transitioning period for mmos.
MMORPG's have never actually been good. Just reams of unmet potential.
Eventually the monkeys will fluke it. Patience.
You've guessed incorrectly..... no prize for you.
Today's MMO's are clearly different, better is definitely a debatable point, hence threads like this one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MUDs have been out since the 80s and are definitely MMOs
there is just no innovation to the genre anymore. I am much older and was an adult playing EQ. Remember WoW on release. Around 2007 for me, it just seemed to be the same thing.
I have played star wars galaxies, swtor, guild wars 2, wow, and so many more over the years. I find myself drifting to console games because they are providing what mmo's are leaning towards. Large open , single player games.
More and more games are moving to console , and mmorpg's are just not doing anything to change with the times.
As you grow old and mature though (you are still young), you start to see how absolutely pointless it is to raid a dungeon, 5 nights a week, for virtual items, that you are going to replace in a few months. No one can so that all these dungeons are fun after the 50 th time being there.
That is the model of mmo's though, and it needs a change. SOme sort of direction into a new format.
And Neverwinter was avaiable in pre 95