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NIII
Member UncommonPosts: 113
I have recently uninstalled EverQuest II, upon visiting their site and reading about instant access to level 85, as well as free 'goodies'.
I haven't kept up with WoW in a long while, but apparently they are doing it too, with the release of their new expansion, they will be giving everyone free (of work) level 90.
I have a very strong feeling that this topic has already been run into the ground by a lot of people, but it bothers me so much that I HAVE to post about it. Keep in mind that it is my opinion, but for large companies such as SOE and Blizzard to be doing this, I have to imagine a lot of people think the same way I do, and I want those people to know they are not alone, and I also want to know your opinions on the matter.
To me, it completely obliterates the purpose of leveling, or doing any content prior to the level that is given away free to others. Not only that, but I'm sure it pisses others off as much as me that there was at one point, a time where you were required to do something, and thus did (see; only option), and now anyone else will not have to.
As far as I'm concerned, instead of giving everyone instant access to a high level, they should have overhauled all of the content, reset everyone's level to 1, and made the maximum level 10, instead of 100 (in WoW's case).
This way the content would be adjusted, not overlooked, and there wouldn't be a number that represents nothing. A level is supposed to signify experience (notice how you gain experience to level?), and yet when you are instantly given a level, you have none of that experience.
Also; apparently the reasoning behind this is that players are feeling the game is "too hard" or "too long".
The obvious solution to this 'problem' is to play a game that isn't "too hard" or "too long". If you don't want to level up 90 times, don't play a game with 90 levels in it. It's simple. Don't go to a salad bar and demand a steak, the game wasn't designed the way you want it to be, and it's a shame that developers are willing to do this, in order to 'maintain'.
To me, this is a lot more than just the instant gratification thing, but also extends to; people looking to the wrong game, and expecting it to be something it isn't, and then the game changing for those people. Yes, it is up to the company at hand, however, when a game changes something to appeal to one audience, it loses another.
Now that I'm done ranting, tell me your thoughts while I make some coffee.
Comments
EQ2 has long had a mentoring, and almost as long "chronoing" for those who want to revisit old content. There are alot of well made, fun dungeons and interesting stories, and I agree the company itself is depreciating the value of the early game, but honestly the game is antiquated.
I don't think companies are making this move (Lotro, too, to a lesser extent) because "customers don't like the content". I think it's because, from the result of many expacs, the disparity between experienced and newer players has grown to such a point, if a person is new the devs realize it's necessary for them to have a boost if they want to truly be "participating in the content".
If a person wants to get with a group of 8 or 10 friends and "start at the bottom", it's not like that part of the game has been removed, but it will be even less populated than it is now. People form guilds around repeating old world content, including self-imposed level caps anyway. There would be opportunities, I'm sure, if one asks around.
What if I don't want to level up 6x90? The first one was good, the second as well. The third was rather tiring, and the fourth was a slog. Don't get me started on the fifth.
I think you're looking at this only from the point of new players bypassing content. Which, I agree, isn't the best case. But what about those of us that put in years and years to the leveling process?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
What about them? I'd imagine they've been getting their money's worth or they wouldn't have been playing for years.
I'm not sure what your point is. My point is: who cares if they give a fresh 90 to someone who has 4 or 5 or 6 already.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
People do. I am an example.
The reason this is a problem to me (and it doesn't really hurt me in anyway, it's just a turn off), is because obviously the game that you have played so many times has grown stale. This is a quick way for you to bypass that, sure, but it is also an excuse for the developers to do nothing about it. Instead of providing a way to make the content more enjoyable for you, or changing it up, they just give you a way to bypass it, and add on to the pile.
For example; they could be adding more leveling paths, new leveling content, different ways to level. They could make an expansion for everyone, instead of an expansion for the endgame. They could also add things to do that aren't leveling, but are equally as interesting.
And that's if you even HAD to level another character. Why should you? If you don't want to level another character, wouldn't it be nice if there was content that allowed you to change your main character in the way that you desire?
There are endless possibilities, but the easy route was taken. This is the reason I (and people like me) care.
You're missing the bigger picture.
There are MMO gamers who have never tried one of these older level-based MMOs, but would probably find them really fun to play. However, as you know as a veteran player of your game, the newbie area is probably light on players and the mid-level zones are probably barren of players. Whatever the population, it is most certainly undesirably devoid of people in one or more places. This is because most of the playerbase is the veteran players sitting at cap.
New players, much like the seasoned veterans that pine across the forums here, don't want to play an MMO by themselves. They want to play with others. Getting them as quickly as possible to the core playerbase is key to retaining them as players.
For some veteran MMO gamers, leveling was a rite of passage, but for most MMOs since 2004, the game was designed to work players up to the cap, not prevent them from getting there. Those veteran players made a choice to make that aspect of the game some type of competition or badge of honor, but it is irrelevant to the game and its community. It's also counter-productive.
It has nothing to do with a dev's faith in their game/content/ability/etc and has everything to do with identifying how to get YOU new people to play with that will stick around playing for more than a month. Forcing them to solo grind through empty zones for a month or two isn't appealling to them, when their goal is to either be playing with you or at least in the same area as you so they don't feel they're alone in a wasteland.
The devs didn't take the easiest route, they took the most logical route.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So like Nlll said they are doing it to resolve a design flaw, that being the only useful content is at level cap, rather than solve the problem of making the older areas more relevant to veterans so that they come back and play in them again.
That's fine if you want to have vast wastelands in your game, might even make sense to remove them complete from the world and just stick with the new content you provide, would probably cut down on server resources or what not.
I actually applauded what they tried to do with Cata, but the mistake was they left in the accelerated leveling curve which meant when I leveled my warrior through there I missed half of the new stuff (entire zones in fact) because it was going gray well before I could complete it all.
But I guess since the game is barely scraping along financially there's no reason to try and spend these sort of resources, easier to take the cheaper route and get people to the end game. Oh wait.... it's not.... right, have to keep up the profitability, silly me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People do. I am an example.
The reason this is a problem to me (and it doesn't really hurt me in anyway, it's just a turn off), is because obviously the game that you have played so many times has grown stale. This is a quick way for you to bypass that, sure, but it is also an excuse for the developers to do nothing about it. Instead of providing a way to make the content more enjoyable for you, or changing it up, they just give you a way to bypass it, and add on to the pile.
For example; they could be adding more leveling paths, new leveling content, different ways to level. They could make an expansion for everyone, instead of an expansion for the endgame. They could also add things to do that aren't leveling, but are equally as interesting.
And that's if you even HAD to level another character. Why should you? If you don't want to level another character, wouldn't it be nice if there was content that allowed you to change your main character in the way that you desire?
There are endless possibilities, but the easy route was taken. This is the reason I (and people like me) care.
You're missing the bigger picture.
There are MMO gamers who have never tried one of these older level-based MMOs, but would probably find them really fun to play. However, as you know as a veteran player of your game, the newbie area is probably light on players and the mid-level zones are probably barren of players. Whatever the population, it is most certainly undesirably devoid of people in one or more places. This is because most of the playerbase is the veteran players sitting at cap.
New players, much like the seasoned veterans that pine across the forums here, don't want to play an MMO by themselves. They want to play with others. Getting them as quickly as possible to the core playerbase is key to retaining them as players.
For some veteran MMO gamers, leveling was a rite of passage, but for most MMOs since 2004, the game was designed to work players up to the cap, not prevent them from getting there. Those veteran players made a choice to make that aspect of the game some type of competition or badge of honor, but it is irrelevant to the game and its community. It's also counter-productive.
It has nothing to do with a dev's faith in their game/content/ability/etc and has everything to do with identifying how to get YOU new people to play with that will stick around playing for more than a month. Forcing them to solo grind through empty zones for a month or two isn't appealling to them, when their goal is to either be playing with you or at least in the same area as you so they don't feel they're alone in a wasteland.
The devs didn't take the easiest route, they took the most logical route.
How is that the most logical route? Spend millions creating graphics and zones, balance characters and classes while they level and then throw it all away because your game is mature?
Seems to me its the flaw in games based on levels and massive progression to the point your world is your progression. Essentially once your game matures your world and content becomes an obsolete road block to play the real game. As your game grows the more obsolete the content and world becomes.
One route you could take is you could toughen the world to the old max level and higher make everyone the old max level when expansions come out. This would make old content relevant again.
I think people would just complain about "recycled content".
Old stuff gets old because it's old. I don't think it's flawed; it's just the way it is. It's in the process of "having run its course" and marketing is trying to find ways to squeeze last nickels from the initial investment.
Soon there will be new flagship games from these companies, and no matter how insightful the "systems" are, they will grow old, too. I think if you have an idea to do it better, you should capitalize on it.
It cheaper and more effect way for new expansion pack , player instant level to newest contents cause rise of high level population.
I do think it bad way , but old contents finished they duty so even if you force player to play them , it wasn't as much effect as when they are new.
Also , with games that raise level cap in every new expansion pack , this is only way to renew and keep balance of player population
At lest , it good that they only give instant access and don't delete old contents.