I doubt we'll ever see major improvements to combat or animations. read some of Joels responses in the forum q&a TSW is down to a bare skeleton crew, everyone who could do the work is working on their Lego game.
Originally posted by TribeofOne I doubt we'll ever see major improvements to combat or animations. read some of Joels responses in the forum q&a TSW is down to a bare skeleton crew, everyone who could do the work is working on their Lego game.
And that is the tragedy really. One of the best MMO games out there and only the minimum of support....
I can partly agree with some of the counter arguments. There is definitely room for creating fun decks/builds or boring, but effective (or boring and completely ineffective) decks in the system. Dodge is a more active ability that breaks your dps rotation and you have to use at the right moments, but I feel like it is better implemented in other games. Can you really dodge out of anything in PvP? It's really only used to give a small speed boost when you need it. The cooldown also feels like it's far too long to be a important part of the combat. I would like to see improvements to dodge, and more active abilities like it.
When it comes to the ability to move and cast at the same time, that only takes away a important decision you have to make in some other games. Should you attack, or move to keep alive? Taking away this choice/dilemma might have given the combat a action feel to it, but has it really made the combat any better. I feel like they should have added other important decisions to make during combat to compensate for this. Decisions that breaks up your dps rotations more and makes timing more important then the perfect dps rotation. A simple example from fps games would be when to reload your weapons. A simple concept that adds a important decision you have to make and time. I feel like TSW is like a fps where you don't have to reload your weapons sometimes, or at least can't chose yourself when to reload.
I found circle straffing got me through most things though I did not get to 'end game'. What I'd like to know is whether the combat is much 'crisper'? Leaving the mechanics aside I found the implementation felt a bit unresponsive. (Though nowhere near as bad as the recent FF for example). I'm considering another try, I'd like to get to 'the end' at some point.
Originally posted by Gorilla I found circle straffing got me through most things though I did not get to 'end game'. What I'd like to know is whether the combat is much 'crisper'? Leaving the mechanics aside I found the implementation felt a bit unresponsive. (Though nowhere near as bad as the recent FF for example). I'm considering another try, I'd like to get to 'the end' at some point.
Don't think there has been any changes, but that unresponsive feel might not be a problem for all weapons, so might be worth checking out other weapons. Also the ability queue system can make it feel a bit unresponsive, but that is something you can get used to, or simply turn off in settings. There is a lot of cool content in the game so I would recommend giving it another try
I am surprise people cannot see both side of the problem... maybe they don't play it much
I can easily see why they say is unresponsive and chuncky
as easily as i can see why many conside it very good.
let's start with why people see it unresponsice/chuncky
part because of the animation but moslty because of the waiting time after you press the button before u need to press it again even in istant skill... make it feel like ur character is not doing what u are telling him to do
add to it the fact that there is a queue by default "on" and if u double/triple smash the button too fast the queue tend to overlap the command and ignore some of them player feel clueless of what happened!
have u ever tried to push "slight of hand" (SOH anti CC) because u see the enemy animation of his impair but your toon is still doing the consumer and it won't let you "SOH" in time this is why lot of people hate this system. They feel they have no control they feel they need to wait = chuncky
there is a time a rythm that go with the battle that is not "smashing" type u dont need to 1-1-1-1-1 in .3 second and if you do 1-1-1-1-4-5-1-1-7 in .7 second u have a high chance that 4 never happen or 7 will happen in the next 2 second ehehe even if u wanted it NOW
Add to the fact that some skill has a fairly slow target check (like Pull the string for example) and you push it and nothing happen because due to lag or ping ur enemy is not exactly in the right position... I hear your frustration! I do totally understand why people (smashing button crowd) really really hate this combat BUT...
So many time i dance my way to pull the string (5 resource) and nothing happens and start smashing it like if that could make it magically happen but it deosn't since my target moved out of the los and let's not count the time i push immutable that has a quite insane long time to activate... (plus sometimes the cooldown bug show button not more grey even if still in cooldown!)
BUT...
on the ohter hand as much as it does piss me off here and there i love the rythm it require i love the slow/fast peace it require and i love the fact u cannot just base the fight on ur reflex but you need to anticipate and calculate when to use what
knowing that both in pve and in pvp if u start a consumer it has a certain time required as it should be (you cannot deal the most damage thinking is as istant as the lower damage) and u need to keep in consideration that in that half second u will be vulnerable and focused in doing that big damage and u cannot expect it to be able to dodge and SOH at same time
There is some sort of skill that is not only Monkey-Reflex skill needed some rythm of the battle some premonition of what's going to happen next... strategy that go behond the action/reaction of a fps.
So i totally know WHY some people feel the combat "slow/chuncky" but i hoentsly like it because of it.
You need to understand the combat to like it some people don't or perhaps is not what they are looking for! I personally hate FPS and i am so sad to see all MMORPG going away from strategy gameplay to please that Monkey-Crowd, also known as "i win because my ping is 20 and i can push a keyboard botton in 0.03sec vs urs 0.05.."
Graz! u should write that in ur curriculum vitae
I am happy that TSW is one of the last strategic combat system around in a world of fps-style mmo and i understand why some people hate it ^_^ too bad for you as i love it this way
Love the combat. The lore in this game is super interesting. I'm so tired of grinding constantly in other mmo's. This is just an outstanding game with great visuals, fascinating stories and challenging tasks. One of the few F2P games out there that I decided was worth subscribing to anyways. Yes, I'm happily paying $15 / month even though I don't have to but I'd rather do so and have the game continue than have them run out of cash.
So much love for this game and the combat that it's ridiculous.
I find the combat to be among the best in the genre, and it's the main reason why I still play the game.
The combat is extremely fast and/or slow and everything in between depending on your build and choice of gear.
Can you give an example of some skills I should go for if I want slower paced combat? The combat in games like GW2 annoys me with its speed. Often I feel like I'm just hopping around like a retard in that game rather than thinking and reacting. Would like to play a newer game with slower paced tactical combat.
the fastest role is probably Melee-DPS you are down there in the center u have to move a lot and you die quick
the slowest role are tank as you don't die fast at all but you depend a lot from the healer and the assist range dps (not the glass cannon type)
you have range u stay out observe the fight and pick the right target... it's very important you pick the right target to kill that is not always the healer (like you may think if u play other MMO where healer goes always first)
Here healer can be heal-tank or glance-heal full-heal etcetc... and if u don't have the right set of skill you end up healing them more then damaging them with ur dps
Is not a chess game u still have to move around to a certain degree of speed but is very much strategic in the sense that u cannot shoot randomly the enemy and it always work if u have the highest dps... a lot depend from the composition of your group and their group and tactic must change accordingly
problem is to really appreciate it you have to have a build flexibility that is not possible for beginners i have like 7 builts 4 tank built 2 dps 1 healer all of them with purple gear that allow me to change role if needed by my team
This is obviously impossible to do for new player so the curve to start pvp right now is quite steep as you are very dependent to the single role you decide to invest first and you may be very ineffective vs one specific enemy, and if you meet him there is nothing u can do (other then change built but u cant as you don't have gear nor open skill yet)
I am surprise people cannot see both side of the problem... maybe they don't play it much
I can easily see why they say is unresponsive and chuncky
as easily as i can see why many conside it very good.
let's start with why people see it unresponsice/chuncky
part because of the animation but moslty because of the waiting time after you press the button before u need to press it again even in istant skill... make it feel like ur character is not doing what u are telling him to do
add to it the fact that there is a queue by default "on" and if u double/triple smash the button too fast the queue tend to overlap the command and ignore some of them player feel clueless of what happened!
have u ever tried to push "slight of hand" (SOH anti CC) because u see the enemy animation of his impair but your toon is still doing the consumer and it won't let you "SOH" in time this is why lot of people hate this system. They feel they have no control they feel they need to wait = chuncky
there is a time a rythm that go with the battle that is not "smashing" type u dont need to 1-1-1-1-1 in .3 second and if you do 1-1-1-1-4-5-1-1-7 in .7 second u have a high chance that 4 never happen or 7 will happen in the next 2 second ehehe even if u wanted it NOW
Add to the fact that some skill has a fairly slow target check (like Pull the string for example) and you push it and nothing happen because due to lag or ping ur enemy is not exactly in the right position... I hear your frustration! I do totally understand why people (smashing button crowd) really really hate this combat BUT...
So many time i dance my way to pull the string (5 resource) and nothing happens and start smashing it like if that could make it magically happen but it deosn't since my target moved out of the los and let's not count the time i push immutable that has a quite insane long time to activate... (plus sometimes the cooldown bug show button not more grey even if still in cooldown!)
BUT...
on the ohter hand as much as it does piss me off here and there i love the rythm it require i love the slow/fast peace it require and i love the fact u cannot just base the fight on ur reflex but you need to anticipate and calculate when to use what
knowing that both in pve and in pvp if u start a consumer it has a certain time required as it should be (you cannot deal the most damage thinking is as istant as the lower damage) and u need to keep in consideration that in that half second u will be vulnerable and focused in doing that big damage and u cannot expect it to be able to dodge and SOH at same time
There is some sort of skill that is not only Monkey-Reflex skill needed some rythm of the battle some premonition of what's going to happen next... strategy that go behond the action/reaction of a fps.
So i totally know WHY some people feel the combat "slow/chuncky" but i hoentsly like it because of it.
You need to understand the combat to like it some people don't or perhaps is not what they are looking for! I personally hate FPS and i am so sad to see all MMORPG going away from strategy gameplay to please that Monkey-Crowd, also known as "i win because my ping is 20 and i can push a keyboard botton in 0.03sec vs urs 0.05.."
Graz! u should write that in ur curriculum vitae
I am happy that TSW is one of the last strategic combat system around in a world of fps-style mmo and i understand why some people hate it ^_^ too bad for you as i love it this way
I recently bought a decent enough laptop (MSI GX60), and I finally got the whole "TSW combat suck" thing.
Combat really does suck, playing TSW on my laptop
I am 90% sure that explains 90% of the critisism against TSW combat. I`ve been scratching my head since launch, trying to understand how so many people could find the fluent, elegant TSW combat "cluncky". Now I understand.
I recently bought a decent enough laptop (MSI GX60), and I finally got the whole "TSW combat suck" thing.
Combat really does suck, playing TSW on my laptop
I am 90% sure that explains 90% of the critisism against TSW combat. I`ve been scratching my head since launch, trying to understand how so many people could find the fluent, elegant TSW combat "cluncky". Now I understand.
I wonder what percentage of the combat criticisms are due to:
- Dislike of animations (even with a high-powered PC)
- Underpowered video card/CPU
- Default settings too high (DX11/high settings vs DX9 or lower)
- Misunderstanding the ability wheel and deck system
I find the combat to be among the best in the genre, and it's the main reason why I still play the game.
The combat is extremely fast and/or slow and everything in between depending on your build and choice of gear.
Can you give an example of some skills I should go for if I want slower paced combat? The combat in games like GW2 annoys me with its speed. Often I feel like I'm just hopping around like a retard in that game rather than thinking and reacting. Would like to play a newer game with slower paced tactical combat.
Choose more +health gear instead of +atk gear to increase survivability and decrease DPS; active skills are fairly balanced (except of a few for end-game but we can disregard that), so just choose passives that increase your utility/survival instead of pure DPS passives.
Agreed i would never play TSW on a laptop... not even in pve.
But not only TSW i really cannot stand game under 30FPS no matter the game i know is a "spoiled kid" statment but i rather not play than play at 15-20fps
Comments
If you play PVP you'll understand how awesome messing with builds is. I'm never satisfied. I'm always tweaking and messing around.
I hope other developers borrow and refine Funcoms concept. It's great.
I could only imagine how great TSW would have been with better animations and more attention to detail.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And that is the tragedy really. One of the best MMO games out there and only the minimum of support....
I can partly agree with some of the counter arguments. There is definitely room for creating fun decks/builds or boring, but effective (or boring and completely ineffective) decks in the system. Dodge is a more active ability that breaks your dps rotation and you have to use at the right moments, but I feel like it is better implemented in other games. Can you really dodge out of anything in PvP? It's really only used to give a small speed boost when you need it. The cooldown also feels like it's far too long to be a important part of the combat. I would like to see improvements to dodge, and more active abilities like it.
When it comes to the ability to move and cast at the same time, that only takes away a important decision you have to make in some other games. Should you attack, or move to keep alive? Taking away this choice/dilemma might have given the combat a action feel to it, but has it really made the combat any better. I feel like they should have added other important decisions to make during combat to compensate for this. Decisions that breaks up your dps rotations more and makes timing more important then the perfect dps rotation. A simple example from fps games would be when to reload your weapons. A simple concept that adds a important decision you have to make and time. I feel like TSW is like a fps where you don't have to reload your weapons sometimes, or at least can't chose yourself when to reload.
Don't think there has been any changes, but that unresponsive feel might not be a problem for all weapons, so might be worth checking out other weapons. Also the ability queue system can make it feel a bit unresponsive, but that is something you can get used to, or simply turn off in settings. There is a lot of cool content in the game so I would recommend giving it another try
I am surprise people cannot see both side of the problem... maybe they don't play it much
I can easily see why they say is unresponsive and chuncky
as easily as i can see why many conside it very good.
let's start with why people see it unresponsice/chuncky
part because of the animation but moslty because of the waiting time after you press the button before u need to press it again even in istant skill... make it feel like ur character is not doing what u are telling him to do
add to it the fact that there is a queue by default "on" and if u double/triple smash the button too fast the queue tend to overlap the command and ignore some of them player feel clueless of what happened!
have u ever tried to push "slight of hand" (SOH anti CC) because u see the enemy animation of his impair but your toon is still doing the consumer and it won't let you "SOH" in time this is why lot of people hate this system. They feel they have no control they feel they need to wait = chuncky
there is a time a rythm that go with the battle that is not "smashing" type u dont need to 1-1-1-1-1 in .3 second and if you do 1-1-1-1-4-5-1-1-7 in .7 second u have a high chance that 4 never happen or 7 will happen in the next 2 second ehehe even if u wanted it NOW
Add to the fact that some skill has a fairly slow target check (like Pull the string for example) and you push it and nothing happen because due to lag or ping ur enemy is not exactly in the right position... I hear your frustration! I do totally understand why people (smashing button crowd) really really hate this combat BUT...
So many time i dance my way to pull the string (5 resource) and nothing happens and start smashing it like if that could make it magically happen but it deosn't since my target moved out of the los and let's not count the time i push immutable that has a quite insane long time to activate... (plus sometimes the cooldown bug show button not more grey even if still in cooldown!)
BUT...
on the ohter hand as much as it does piss me off here and there i love the rythm it require i love the slow/fast peace it require and i love the fact u cannot just base the fight on ur reflex but you need to anticipate and calculate when to use what
knowing that both in pve and in pvp if u start a consumer it has a certain time required as it should be (you cannot deal the most damage thinking is as istant as the lower damage) and u need to keep in consideration that in that half second u will be vulnerable and focused in doing that big damage and u cannot expect it to be able to dodge and SOH at same time
There is some sort of skill that is not only Monkey-Reflex skill needed some rythm of the battle some premonition of what's going to happen next... strategy that go behond the action/reaction of a fps.
So i totally know WHY some people feel the combat "slow/chuncky" but i hoentsly like it because of it.
You need to understand the combat to like it some people don't or perhaps is not what they are looking for! I personally hate FPS and i am so sad to see all MMORPG going away from strategy gameplay to please that Monkey-Crowd, also known as "i win because my ping is 20 and i can push a keyboard botton in 0.03sec vs urs 0.05.."
Graz! u should write that in ur curriculum vitae
I am happy that TSW is one of the last strategic combat system around in a world of fps-style mmo and i understand why some people hate it ^_^ too bad for you as i love it this way
Love the combat. The lore in this game is super interesting. I'm so tired of grinding constantly in other mmo's. This is just an outstanding game with great visuals, fascinating stories and challenging tasks. One of the few F2P games out there that I decided was worth subscribing to anyways. Yes, I'm happily paying $15 / month even though I don't have to but I'd rather do so and have the game continue than have them run out of cash.
So much love for this game and the combat that it's ridiculous.
Can you give an example of some skills I should go for if I want slower paced combat? The combat in games like GW2 annoys me with its speed. Often I feel like I'm just hopping around like a retard in that game rather than thinking and reacting. Would like to play a newer game with slower paced tactical combat.
is not about skill is more about role
the fastest role is probably Melee-DPS you are down there in the center u have to move a lot and you die quick
the slowest role are tank as you don't die fast at all but you depend a lot from the healer and the assist range dps (not the glass cannon type)
you have range u stay out observe the fight and pick the right target... it's very important you pick the right target to kill that is not always the healer (like you may think if u play other MMO where healer goes always first)
Here healer can be heal-tank or glance-heal full-heal etcetc... and if u don't have the right set of skill you end up healing them more then damaging them with ur dps
Is not a chess game u still have to move around to a certain degree of speed but is very much strategic in the sense that u cannot shoot randomly the enemy and it always work if u have the highest dps... a lot depend from the composition of your group and their group and tactic must change accordingly
problem is to really appreciate it you have to have a build flexibility that is not possible for beginners i have like 7 builts 4 tank built 2 dps 1 healer all of them with purple gear that allow me to change role if needed by my team
This is obviously impossible to do for new player so the curve to start pvp right now is quite steep as you are very dependent to the single role you decide to invest first and you may be very ineffective vs one specific enemy, and if you meet him there is nothing u can do (other then change built but u cant as you don't have gear nor open skill yet)
I recently bought a decent enough laptop (MSI GX60), and I finally got the whole "TSW combat suck" thing.
Combat really does suck, playing TSW on my laptop
I am 90% sure that explains 90% of the critisism against TSW combat. I`ve been scratching my head since launch, trying to understand how so many people could find the fluent, elegant TSW combat "cluncky". Now I understand.
I wonder what percentage of the combat criticisms are due to:
- Dislike of animations (even with a high-powered PC)
- Underpowered video card/CPU
- Default settings too high (DX11/high settings vs DX9 or lower)
- Misunderstanding the ability wheel and deck system
- Server lag
- Builder/consumer mechanic
Choose more +health gear instead of +atk gear to increase survivability and decrease DPS; active skills are fairly balanced (except of a few for end-game but we can disregard that), so just choose passives that increase your utility/survival instead of pure DPS passives.
REALITY CHECK
Agreed i would never play TSW on a laptop... not even in pve.
But not only TSW i really cannot stand game under 30FPS no matter the game i know is a "spoiled kid" statment but i rather not play than play at 15-20fps