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[POLL] Still going to play ESO with sub?

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  • Flaming_MMOFlaming_MMO Member Posts: 137
    After reading a lot of these ridiculous comments I almost wish the entire MMO industry would dry up and die. 
  • kryptzlolkryptzlol Member Posts: 5
    I can't understand how people that wanted to play this game aren't going to play it just because it has a subscription model. 12 euros a month, that's like 40c a day on an average 30 day month.  On a Saturday night I spend anywhere from 60 to 100 euros so if you can't pay 12 euros a month for a game which will give you endless hours of entertainment, I think you must be really poor.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    B2P with optional sub. and when i say optional sub i don't mean "buy optional DLC or sub if you want them for free". give some other type of boost to sub, like extra xp gain from all source, extra currency(gold, pve currency, pvp currency) gain from all source or any sort of advantage that will not put b2p players in total disadvantage for too long. sure subscriber will be leveling up faster, get pve/pvp gear faster but others can catch upto them within a few days(ehhmm..maybe 15 days at least otherwise no value for that monthly fee) if they play a little more, that is about it. subscriber can also have more character slot than b2p and/or free character migration and/or character rename? if someone buys a  box or digital copy of a game and can't play it for more than one month it just stinks and hurts the company in the long run. these days there are way too much choice for players, best try to find a middle ground when it comes to selling game.

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  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,373
    Will play on open beta and make a decision then.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157

    If they make it with everything a 2013/2014 MMO Should have including things like.

    1. Unlimited Customization with flat subscription rate/fee.

    2. Serious 3D Artwork/Models, not cartoony with limited options like SKYRIM.

    3. Possibly add the ability to use custom client-side mods like Skyrim.

    Then I will have no problem but if it is anything like TERA, Final Fantasy XIV, or any of the such it isn't worth playing at all.

  • GrunchGrunch Member Posts: 493
    There are plenty of horrible F2P games you can take your broke ass to. 

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • DarwinianDarwinian Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by kryptzlol
    I can't understand how people that wanted to play this game aren't going to play it just because it has a subscription model. 12 euros a month, that's like 40c a day on an average 30 day month.  On a Saturday night I spend anywhere from 60 to 100 euros so if you can't pay 12 euros a month for a game which will give you endless hours of entertainment, I think you must be really poor.

    I have no idea if ESO will give me endless hours of entertainment or not. If I knew it would, then I would vote yes and buy it with sub. Like others, I'll wait to try out open beta and make a decision then. Its not only because it has a sub that people are voting "NO". Different people have different needs when it comes to entertainment.

    Also, you can't average the 12 euro / Month by day. Everyone can't play everyday. How many hours / week can some people average. They may take that into consideration? It's not like I can't afford it, but more or less where is my money/time better spent?

  • Seeker728Seeker728 Member UncommonPosts: 179
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Well ... I do have to say, I think this is the best argument I have heard against what I have said. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why others like P2P. I also, agree with everything you said after I thought about it. However, the reason I argue this is because, I am simply trying to be open.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my novella response, its nice to see sincere effort at communication appreciated. image

    The last person to respond to me, before you, states that everything I say is theory. Obviously unscientific theory to be exact.

    That is very true, the model I talk about, has yet to be used with an MMO. However, I do have to ask, why does that make my argument any less valid? People simply "know" the answer or the best solution to everything. Just because one likes a certain particular payment model now, doesn't mean a better one will not come up later down the road. To excuse that all together is like saying, you hate change, or you simply don't welcome it. in my opinion, what is today, should never stop you from thinking about what is possible later on down the road.

     I don't think its a invalid argument and I agree with you.  Regardless of the model, if a company displays a genuine regard for the consumer and treats them with genuine good will, any payment model that is convenient and under full consumer control will be embraced.  

    As for my proof. That is simple, you compare the amount made of an MMO. You compare it with the amount made of a single player game, specifically Elder Scrolls. If the MMO is able to sustain itself with a certain amount of income, you can compare that to a B2P game. If that B2P game meets those numbers, then it would work.

    This is a model that realize on Elder Scrolls popularity however. It wouldn't work on any MMO. TES is a popular enough franchise to easily pull off a B2P model even with out advertising. This is of course if we compare to past numbers.

     I don't mean to sound dismissive of your point, I think its a good one, however you can be sure that bean counters earned their pay before the P2P model was announced.  I also believe their analyists weighed in other associated, but not so obvious benefits to their business.  I'd speculate on them but it'd turn into a mountain of text not all that interesting.

    Well besides that, if they changed P2P models down to something like $3 - 5 a month .. it would be a lot more appealing. I feel $15 a month is way to much. I am able to run an entire website for far cheaper. Course, that is comparing apples to oranges since that is the popular saying these days. Point is, worth is very important in my eyes. To me, unless a game sends me into a virtual reality world, I am not paying $15 a month. Though heck, if a virtual reality world existed .. I would gladly spend more then that lol.

    I used to joke that Star Trek: New Gen was a highly flawed premise because not one member of the Enterprise would leave the holodeck after its upgrade, and as that tech spread to other races and populations sentient life in the universe would steadily dwindle to extinction.image

    Going to stray a touch into Economics.  I understand that $15 has a set value in your mind, based upon how you use that sum of money on a daily basis and thus base your spend decisions accordingly.  However that $15 is a snapshot in time, not a absolute.  Fiat currencies are designed to erode with inflation built in (I'll spare you a political rant on how things are going to get worse and why).  A quick example is in the following table 

     

    2000 ($15 )

    2013 ($15)

    Big Mac Price

    $2.19 (6.84 burgers)

    $4.53 (3.31 burgers)

    Minimum Wage

    $5.25

    $7.25

    1 hours wages

    2.13 burgers

    1.60 burgers

     

    That isn't to dismiss what value $15 holds for you right now, you have a budget which such a sub would have a impact on, its merely to illustrate how the value of what we see our $$s having isn't what it seems, and erodes directly in proportion to what the clowns in D.C. drunkenly bumble their way through.  As the negative economic impact of Obamacare kicks people in the 'nads, $15 for unlimited monthly entertainment will seem like a heck of a bargain.

     

    Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Seeker728
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Well ... I do have to say, I think this is the best argument I have heard against what I have said. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why others like P2P. I also, agree with everything you said after I thought about it. However, the reason I argue this is because, I am simply trying to be open.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my novella response, its nice to see sincere effort at communication appreciated. image

    The last person to respond to me, before you, states that everything I say is theory. Obviously unscientific theory to be exact.

    That is very true, the model I talk about, has yet to be used with an MMO. However, I do have to ask, why does that make my argument any less valid? People simply "know" the answer or the best solution to everything. Just because one likes a certain particular payment model now, doesn't mean a better one will not come up later down the road. To excuse that all together is like saying, you hate change, or you simply don't welcome it. in my opinion, what is today, should never stop you from thinking about what is possible later on down the road.

     I don't think its a invalid argument and I agree with you.  Regardless of the model, if a company displays a genuine regard for the consumer and treats them with genuine good will, any payment model that is convenient and under full consumer control will be embraced.  

    As for my proof. That is simple, you compare the amount made of an MMO. You compare it with the amount made of a single player game, specifically Elder Scrolls. If the MMO is able to sustain itself with a certain amount of income, you can compare that to a B2P game. If that B2P game meets those numbers, then it would work.

    This is a model that realize on Elder Scrolls popularity however. It wouldn't work on any MMO. TES is a popular enough franchise to easily pull off a B2P model even with out advertising. This is of course if we compare to past numbers.

     I don't mean to sound dismissive of your point, I think its a good one, however you can be sure that bean counters earned their pay before the P2P model was announced.  I also believe their analyists weighed in other associated, but not so obvious benefits to their business.  I'd speculate on them but it'd turn into a mountain of text not all that interesting.

    Well besides that, if they changed P2P models down to something like $3 - 5 a month .. it would be a lot more appealing. I feel $15 a month is way to much. I am able to run an entire website for far cheaper. Course, that is comparing apples to oranges since that is the popular saying these days. Point is, worth is very important in my eyes. To me, unless a game sends me into a virtual reality world, I am not paying $15 a month. Though heck, if a virtual reality world existed .. I would gladly spend more then that lol.

    I used to joke that Star Trek: New Gen was a highly flawed premise because not one member of the Enterprise would leave the holodeck after its upgrade, and as that tech spread to other races and populations sentient life in the universe would steadily dwindle to extinction.image

    Going to stray a touch into Economics.  I understand that $15 has a set value in your mind, based upon how you use that sum of money on a daily basis and thus base your spend decisions accordingly.  However that $15 is a snapshot in time, not a absolute.  Fiat currencies are designed to erode with inflation built in (I'll spare you a political rant on how things are going to get worse and why).  A quick example is in the following table 

     

    2000 ($15 )

    2013 ($15)

    Big Mac Price

    $2.19 (6.84 burgers)

    $4.53 (3.31 burgers)

    Minimum Wage

    $5.25

    $7.25

    1 hours wages

    2.13 burgers

    1.60 burgers

     

    That isn't to dismiss what value $15 holds for you right now, you have a budget which such a sub would have a impact on, its merely to illustrate how the value of what we see our $$s having isn't what it seems, and erodes directly in proportion to what the clowns in D.C. drunkenly bumble their way through.  As the negative economic impact of Obamacare kicks people in the 'nads, $15 for unlimited monthly entertainment will seem like a heck of a bargain.

     

    I agree with you in everything besides $15 for unlimited entertainment.

    It's not unlimited for one. It's only entertaining as long as it keeps you entertained. Not only that, but $15 a month varys for everyone. What do I mean by that? Well, one person will be spending a different amount per hour, since not everyone plays the same amount but does pay the same amount. Why should someone who plays 20 hours a month pay the same amount as someone who plays 200 hours? They certainly are not getting the same entertainment value out of it.

    This is the big problem I have with P2P. It assumes way to many factors. It assumes, you will like that game. If you don't ... haha .. tough .. money wasted. It assumes you will play the game a lot, if not, again haha ... money wasted. It assumes nothing will get in your way to play the game. Life events could stop you from playing for weeks .. heck maybe even a few. You payed for those weeks, so haha .. money wasted.

    Fact of the matter is, B2P isn't appealing because it's "cheaper", It is appealing to me because it's more flexible and customer friendly. 

    P2P players act as if, anyone who doesn't want to pay is poor or something. That isn't the case at all. It's all about what value we see in the product. The worth is going to greatly differ for every person depending on the amount of time they are able to put in. To me, it's huge barrier for some people, such as myself.

    I played TERA for a bit .. I payed for 6 months. Did I play 6 months? No. Not only did I eventually get bored, but life events caused me to be unable to play it for months. I believe I only played 2 months out of the 6.

    Now one will say .. this is why you should not pay for multiple months at a time. But ... It's cheaper! Why not? If I plan to play a game for a while, I might as well get the better package right? Again, P2P is all about making assumptions. It is just way to unappealing.

    I did mention a while back, if they implemented some form of roll over, it would fix this issue at least half way and make it more appealing.

     

    Edit: Oh .. and the last issue I have with P2P ... is the fact I PAY for the game up front, and can't play the game if I don't pay the monthly fee. So I ask . .where does the upfront cost go to? It certainly doesn't go to me. I am a firm believer if a game is P2P, it shouldn't have a box price unless you are able to play single player.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,643
    Originally posted by kurokayosama
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by kurokayosama
     

    that is so much bullshit I don't see how so many morons pay for a sub ever !

    No company is going to run a game they aren't making any money out of and there are some drawbacks to a game totally designed around selling cash shop crap.

    But apparently I'm a "moron" for understanding that no game outside of pirate sites is ever completely free. Whatever...Are you enjoing all those new zones and other content they've added to GW2 since launch? Oh wait, it's a mostly a bunch of shallow crap designed to get people to buy rare limited time cosmetic items from their cash shop? Shocking....

     

     

    everybody understands that games are business lol

    the moron part is for those that haven't yet caught on to the fact your characters are not really yours at all they are rented.

    and you pay to get the ability to login that is utter bullshit now, in the past when server and connection costs were sky high it was understandable not so much today.

    it's about choice !

    not about, you cannot login if you do not pay me !

    i play gw2 and some months i spent more money than a sub on it for what i choose to buy for my toons 

    but.... my toons are always there for me and i can always login and play.

    Or you could "try" to work it through (and I know you won't) and realize that developing and running a game/business is more than internet connection costs.

    Just speak to your accountant at work and ask what goes into just keeping the business going. I know you think they pay you "x a year" but you probably don't realize that the amount they pay to have you work there is a lot more. And all those other costs.

    I hazzard to guess that not even subs are going to be good enough anymore. Too much money is needed and too many players who want the whales to pay the bill.

    So essentially "everything that Iselin said".

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  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Given I had interest, Yes, I'd be willing to pay a sub. I feel it tends to be more fair and in many cases, games with B2P or F2P tend to give advantages to those paying, being so bold as to claim theres not a single game that doesn't do this. The only time this isn't one is if its cosmetics, and even then it can be considered an advantage in say a shooter having camo making it harder to see you. Games like SWTOR or GW2 are going with the korean 'Random loot box gamble' emphasis as well which I feel is a bad way to do it and try cashing in on gambling addiction to get people to pay for stuff... and yes just because you don't do it doesn't mean others don't. 
  • kkarrabbasskkarrabbass Member Posts: 152

    I think that not willing to play ESO because of subscription is different from not being able to afford it.

    If you can afford and still do not want to pay, you just estimated your love to this game lower than subscription price.

    And it's OK. But sometimes it seems not very smart to make such a decision not even having finished product on a market.

    Of course you can always speculate around word "Maybe", if you have nothing more to do. And all this poll looks like attempt to involve people again and again in worthless, useless debates.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    I plan on giving TESO a pass. There's nothing about it yet that would make me buy the game. If I liked it I'd gladly pay for it and the subscription. I'm just not seeing it yet.

    image

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  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    I put no because elderscrolls games should be singleplayer only. It won't feel like an elderscrolls game with a chat filled with crap from other players. But because it will include the whole world, they should have made a way you could play it as a singleplayer game without the mmo rules and no chat. Just like multiplayer game have singleplayer option. If you decide to go online you would pay a sub for that.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

    I think that not willing to play ESO because of subscription is different from not being able to afford it.

    If you can afford and still do not want to pay, you just estimated your love to this game lower than subscription price.

    And it's OK. But sometimes it seems not very smart to make such a decision not even having finished product on a market.

    Of course you can always speculate around word "Maybe", if you have nothing more to do. And all this poll looks like attempt to involve people again and again in worthless, useless debates.

    I agree with you on this, however,  in my eyes the game has to offer a lot more than what any MMO thus far has offered for me to pay a sub. ESO isn't offering much if anything new to MMOs. Finished product or not, one is still able to know enough to be able to make a fairly decent judgement. I am not saying, the game will not be fun, I am pretty sure it will be. I still don't think it's worth it though. I can easily get just as much fun out of Skyrim over and over again. Never feels the same with all the mods available. 

    Also, it isn't always about estimating love for a game, it also can do with the amount of time able to play.

    Let's say you wanted to play ESO, but you where sure you could only play at max 1 - 2 hours per day, maybe less. Would $15 a month still be worth it? Personally, I don't think so. As for it not being smart making that decision, I disagree.

    Deciding to play or not takes the same amount of judgment. The person who decides not to play, doesn't know if it will be good or bad, so you can say they may miss out. However, the same applies to those who decide to play. The game may end up being bad or not what they expected and they waste their money. Either choice can easily be win or lose depending on the person. Meaning it's equally stupid and equally smart XD.

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by kkarrabbass

    I think that not willing to play ESO because of subscription is different from not being able to afford it.

    If you can afford and still do not want to pay, you just estimated your love to this game lower than subscription price.

    And it's OK. But sometimes it seems not very smart to make such a decision not even having finished product on a market.

    Of course you can always speculate around word "Maybe", if you have nothing more to do. And all this poll looks like attempt to involve people again and again in worthless, useless debates.

    I agree with you on this, however,  in my eyes the game has to offer a lot more than what any MMO thus far has offered for me to pay a sub. ESO isn't offering much if anything new to MMOs. Finished product or not, one is still able to know enough to be able to make a fairly decent judgement. I am not saying, the game will not be fun, I am pretty sure it will be. I still don't think it's worth it though. I can easily get just as much fun out of Skyrim over and over again. Never feels the same with all the mods available. 

    Also, it isn't always about estimating love for a game, it also can do with the amount of time able to play.

    Let's say you wanted to play ESO, but you where sure you could only play at max 1 - 2 hours per day, maybe less. Would $15 a month still be worth it? Personally, I don't think so. As for it not being smart making that decision, I disagree.

    Deciding to play or not takes the same amount of judgment. The person who decides not to play, doesn't know if it will be good or bad, so you can say they may miss out. However, the same applies to those who decide to play. The game may end up being bad or not what they expected and they waste their money. Either choice can easily be win or lose depending on the person. Meaning it's equally stupid and equally smart XD.

    My major problem with subs is i feel i'm still paying for Everquest. The sub back in the day was worth it because it was a new form of gaming. Today all these mmo's just offer up different setting's and better graphics but its still Everquest. And there are so many fantasy mmo's out there.  I just don't want to pay for these game's as they are now. I want something that's going to make me go heck yeah. If your a younger gamer i know you won't get what i'm saying. But i've been paying subs for every game i've played going back to Everquest. Non of these new mmo's have nothing new to me. Kill this bring back that. I think either mmo Dev's are lazy or afraid to come up with something really new. I want someone to come up with something that pushes the genre forward. I and a few others i know have all gone back to old school game's that we loved because the new one are pretty much the same thing. So what's the point of switching. I'm not paying to play any game because of the graphics. To me that's really shallow. Probably why i and a few friends are having a blast playing Neocron 2 again.

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363

    Well it really comes down to this.

    Either A. play ESO for a monthly fee, a DAOC clone with no world pvp and lackluster pve with no sandbox elements at all.

    Or B play  GW2, a DAOC clone with no world pvp , lackluster pve  and no sandbox elements for the cost of the box. 

    I won't bet on people paying a fee for a fre minor differences like nuances in the targeting system, a little more or a little less action combat oriented or simply on fluff alone. When the game in general is a big heaping dose of been there done that. 

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    Well it really comes down to this.

    Either A. play ESO for a monthly fee, a DAOC clone with no world pvp and lackluster pve with no sandbox elements at all.

    Or B play  GW2, a DAOC clone with no world pvp , lackluster pve  and no sandbox elements for the cost of the box. 

    I won't bet on people paying a fee for a fre minor differences like nuances in the targeting system, a little more or a little less action combat oriented or simply on fluff alone. When the game in general is a big heaping dose of been there done that. 

    Man i'm so with you on this. Its like the same game over and over. And now its just boring. And the hype around these new game's confuse the heck out of me. I read about them and can't see what the big deal is with them. It has to be the generation of mmo player's that started out with Wow. Games like EQN, ESO and Wildstar. I read about them and its all been done before  with maybe a little twist is all. And the funny part is after those games have been out 6 months and the next game comes rinse and repeat hype.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Hariken
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    Well it really comes down to this.

    Either A. play ESO for a monthly fee, a DAOC clone with no world pvp and lackluster pve with no sandbox elements at all.

    Or B play  GW2, a DAOC clone with no world pvp , lackluster pve  and no sandbox elements for the cost of the box. 

    I won't bet on people paying a fee for a fre minor differences like nuances in the targeting system, a little more or a little less action combat oriented or simply on fluff alone. When the game in general is a big heaping dose of been there done that. 

    Man i'm so with you on this. Its like the same game over and over. And now its just boring. And the hype around these new game's confuse the heck out of me. I read about them and can't see what the big deal is with them. It has to be the generation of mmo player's that started out with Wow. Games like EQN, ESO and Wildstar. I read about them and its all been done before  with maybe a little twist is all. And the funny part is after those games have been out 6 months and the next game comes rinse and repeat hype.

    I know, eh? It's like sex... you might change things around a bit - like who's on top - but it's all the same thing. How boring!

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  • PreparedPrepared Member UncommonPosts: 103

    Without all of the features of a full subscription based MMO, the game is not worth playing in my opinion.  In other words, if the MMO lacks a tab-targeting system, no /follow command, no macros, it's not worth playing.

    Mouse targeting is SLOW and OUTDATED and using a cross-hair is for first person shooter games, not for MMOs.  Sorry, just my opinion.

     

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Member UncommonPosts: 759
    Having a sub has never been a deterrent for me to play a game, I only care if it is fun or not.
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392

    Six months ago I would have said I definitely would play.Today because they have drifted so far from what I thought the original vision was...I'm a maybe at best.

    I honestly don't know much about its current iteration and frankly I don't care.Since I sense no firm core vision for the game I'll judge it when its about to launch and see exactly what it turned out to be.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Member UncommonPosts: 1,969
    Since you will have to pay online access fees for consoles, I can tell you that I definitely won't be playing unless it goes B2P or F2P.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Hariken
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    Well it really comes down to this.

    Either A. play ESO for a monthly fee, a DAOC clone with no world pvp and lackluster pve with no sandbox elements at all.

    Or B play  GW2, a DAOC clone with no world pvp , lackluster pve  and no sandbox elements for the cost of the box. 

    I won't bet on people paying a fee for a fre minor differences like nuances in the targeting system, a little more or a little less action combat oriented or simply on fluff alone. When the game in general is a big heaping dose of been there done that. 

    Man i'm so with you on this. Its like the same game over and over. And now its just boring. And the hype around these new game's confuse the heck out of me. I read about them and can't see what the big deal is with them. It has to be the generation of mmo player's that started out with Wow. Games like EQN, ESO and Wildstar. I read about them and its all been done before  with maybe a little twist is all. And the funny part is after those games have been out 6 months and the next game comes rinse and repeat hype.

    I know, eh? It's like sex... you might change things around a bit - like who's on top - but it's all the same thing. How boring!

    You are kidding right? You can't even compare the two for so many reasons i'm sure a smart person like you should know. 

    Unless you really don't know, but I rather not have to go into a whole scientific rant on why you are wrong to compare the two. Short version though ... sex works in a completely different manner then something like a video game that one enjoys. A pretty big factor is the chemicals your brain sends out through your body during sex.

    Good try though .... I suppose. Next time you try to compare something, try using similar things, tends to work a whole lot better.

    Sort of like smoking cigs, when your addicted, you never get bored of it due to the chemicals your body craves. You can't compare it to video games, like your sex comparison, because one you can get bored of, and the other you can't due to biological and physical reasons. 

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    It is hard for me to grasp the concept that Elder Scrolls has pvp. It honestly feels weird. Undecided, need to see more gameplay.
    30
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