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Why not start with end-game
Iylz
Member Posts: 107
Not really sure if this has been tossed out, new ideas are rare so it probably has. Why not just start the MMORPG with end-game. Instead of pouring money into the development of a game where the majority of the content just gets grinded through in less than a week. The majority of content people end up playing are end game raids, dungeons, and pvp. Why not create a game where you begin with everything a hero would have anyways. Make rewards fantastically crafted cosmetic items or rare wickedly gruesome mounts. There's always the addition of new tiers or level of gear.
The content development would be solely focused on what would be end-game in today's MMORPGs but since there would be more of a focus on this development the actual content would be more in-depth and better developed. You could always add story into these end-game elements.
Just a rough thought but that kind of game would interest me.
Comments
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
I highly doubt that.
The leveling/story part of the game is when people get immersed and attached to their character, making a later "end-game" of gear treadmill somewhat meaningful. How do you suggest to replace this crucial element of the game? Because without one, I do not see much point in playing.
Maybe more extensive pvp other than arenas. Possibly a better version of GW2s WvW. Progressive raiding sounds interesting. I think it's EQ:N that is using a system where the skills of the boss mobs are changed each attempt (I could be mistaken), but possibly put more thought in raid encounters to make more strategic use of the skill sets of classes. Make the raids level of difficulty actually mean something and reward players accordingly for these levels of difficulty.
I just feel if developers had the chance to dedicate less time to what most consider meaningless and unintersting tasks that usually is associated with leveling in most MMORPGs the time and energy focused on the content most played would make that content better.
That is purely subjective, I personally like end-game and don't really care for the kill 20 of this or that or very shallow storylines. You could create story driven content that acts as end-game content though.
As I tried to point you out, you probably do not care for "kill 20 bears" part, yet it plays important role in your overall game experience.
Imo, your post is just not thought out, just like the quote above...
And what would you do in this story driven content? Wouldn't it be the same as the content from level 1 to cap? You want a gear treadmill from the start of the game? Just running raids over and over? I'm not sure what you are looking for in endgame content.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Do you know what end-game mean ?
No troll but it mean the end where no more contents for you to play aside repeat old contents until you tired and quit game or they open new expansion to raise end-game cap.
If anyone said you "game start at end-game" before you search end-game contents , they lie to make you keep playing until you hit a wall called "the end" and see there are nothing here aside those things you had seen in you way to end-game.
There are no start in end-game.
If you want to have more to play, ask "why we not remove end-game"
With the raid content being developed from the beginning that content could mean the raids could be more developed, possibly into stages more more lengthy and complex raids. As I stated maybe have the raids in multiple stages so you aren't required to spend X amount of time online to accomplish anything.
Why be so negative in comments? If you don't like the idea just skip to the next thread, otherwise, constructive thoughts about this would be much more welcome.
I guess what I am proposing eludes you, I don't necessarily mean end-game. I mean the content that people spend the most time on and enjoy in the majority of other MMORPGs.
The endgame is going to be awful, anyway, so your proposal just means skipping the potentially interesting part of the game to go straight to the awful endgame.
Unless, of course, you have a proposal for an endgame that is actually good, in which case, you might want to explain.
I keep asking for you to explain what your ideal endgame would entail, but you seem to be ignoring me.
Otherwise I'm going to assume you mean just having loads of raids and dungeons with an endless gear treadmill. I think people would get burnt out on that real quick. Besides, how is that different from any game with a gear treadmill?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Honestly I have never thought about game development but some of the most memorable moments I have had in MMORPGs were end-game things that I had experienced.
.
SWG - Massive PvP battles - Wicked Space Battles - The aesthetic elements
GW2 - WvW w/ proper gear - roaming
Age of Conan - Sieges (although broken) - Open - World PvP
Daoc - Whaaaaaaaaat - The Wars (This was almost unparalleled fun)
Aurora World - Nation Wars
Silk Road Online - Fights over caravans
I can go on and on.......but these were some of my most fondest memories of gaming and they all really happened after the leveling process.
I have already given a couple examples. I am also looking for other people to include ideas of their own.
Sounds like your idea of endgame is lots of PvP, which many people are not interested in. There are some games like Forge that you may be interested in.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
I would have figured a good solution would have been to stop regarding these games within the context of 'endgame'.
It's a bad mindset and it implies that the game in question has some strong content imbalances, due to the focus inevitably narrowing down to the regular play of a very finite part of the game.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I think I misspoke when I mentioned end-game in my post and I think your are correct in your statement about it being a bad mindset.
Why not start with a good game?
I think for most people the key is they want some sort of real progression. What people typically think of as end game means you only progress while finding new items. While leveling I'm constantly getting new skills, new gear, spending points to customize myself, getting access to new content that I couldn't do before etc. For a standard level based theme park I find the leveling process way more fun than the end game.
Now if you built your game around horizontal progression instead of vertical than starting you in the end game would work just fine. You would need something like an AA system where you kept gaining power slowly but never gained levels and then maybe a tiered content system where each tier was slightly harder and needed better gear/AA levels to progress. You get the same sort of progression from multiple paths but you aren't hindered by the levels.
Even skill based games like UO suffer from levels though. I mean you still need to level up your primary skill to be able to kill the bigger and badder stuff.
Creating a game that didn't require any type of progression doesn't really feel like an MMORPG to me, it would be its own genre of game.
You shouldn't underestimate the rate that some of these people go through content. The idea seems nice, but you would have to make it fairly difficult to move up floors or I doubt people would hang around lower floors for very long at all.
I would think that this would also make the game very linear.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
It is at least not accurate. May be you spend the most time, but you are not all people yet.
May be I am wrong, but the only thing that differ endgame from any other period of game is that nobody is above you.
You can bravely engage in PVP, knowing that your opponent will be of your level or below. And you are powerful enough to easily kill annoying low level creatures.
What you are suggesting will also require player to choose class, all skills and perks right away. This is how we differ one from another. This is where our powers come from. When you do this gradually, you have a chance to learn on your mistakes (wrong choices). When you do this at once, it could be harder to fix. Unless you prefer very lame version (housewife’s version, sorry housewives) with easy respeccing.
Another thing. When you do your usual Endgame, only relatively small part of players does Endgame too. Rest of players are of lower level. So, your chances in PVP are good.
When you will play your game, all players will be of your level. Chances are not that good.
Raiding, dungeons – same thing. Millions of players (I am exaggerating a little) will rush to do exactly the thing you are doing right now, making whole thing very similar to waiting for a train in NY subway during rush hour.
In regular game, those people will have different levels and different things to do.
It will pretty much look not like the Endgame, but like end of the World