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There is no "right to free speech" on message boards

Grand_NagusGrand_Nagus Member UncommonPosts: 335

If you have read message boards for very long, you have probably encountered the following scenario:

 

1) somebody posts something that breaks the forum's rules

2) the comments get edited or deleted by forum moderators

3) the original poster or others start yelling about their "right to free speech" being violated

 

This may seem like common sense to many, but to the fools in #3 it obviously isnt: you have no "right to free speech" on a message board. Any so called "rights" you have regarding speech stop the moment you enter a privately owned area. Here is an example: you invite some people over to your house. One of them brings a friend, and this friend starts saying things you dont like. It could be profanity, vulgarity, politics, sports; it doesnt matter. Since it is YOUR house, then you have the right to decide who gets to be there and under what conditions. That means that you have the right to kick someone out of your house if you do not like how they are acting or talking.

 

The same is is true of message boards. You have no "right to free speech" on the message board. You only get to visit as long as you obey the owner's rules. So why are there so many fools who do not understand this and complain about their rights being violated when moderation occurs?

Comments

  • azmundaiazmundai Member UncommonPosts: 1,419

    not to mention you enter into a contract when you signup for a forum that usually, explicitly states this.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,600
    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

     

    The same is is true of message boards. You have no "right to free speech" on the message board.

    The real problem is that they don't know what "freedom of speech" is.

    It's either not being taught in school anymore or someone isn't paying attention.

     

  • iJustWantiJustWant Member Posts: 81
    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

    So why are there so many fools who do not understand this and complain about their rights being violated when moderation occurs?

     

    Sadly, a lot of people don't know the difference between a Right and a Luxury.

     

     

    image
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus   The same is is true of message boards. You have no "right to free speech" on the message board.
    The real problem is that they don't know what "freedom of speech" is.

    It's either not being taught in school anymore or someone isn't paying attention.

     




    It's not being taught in schools and hasn't been for a very long time. This is probably because it's not a simple thing. The courts in the U.S. are still struggling with this after hundreds of years.

    Here's a page from uscourts.gov going over Freedom of Speech in the U.S.

    http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/get-involved/constitution-activities/first-amendment.aspx

    Which doesn't really get into a lot of detail. A page linked to from there goes into a little more detail.

    http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/get-involved/constitution-activities/first-amendment/free-speech.aspx

    It certainly doesn't mean that people can say anything they want, whether or not it's true. It also doesn't mean people can say what they want in any venue they want to say it in. For instance, students cannot advocate the legalization of drugs in a school newspaper, while they can do so in a local, regional or national newspaper, magazine, blog or television. Certain forms of protest, such as burning a draft card are not allowed, while others such as burning a flag are allowed.

    People probably do have protections under the first amendment for their speech on internet forums, but it isn't universal and it's protected from the government restrictions, not the forum owners. If the forum owners don't want people to use the word "cheese", then the people posting can't use the word "cheese". The government won't stop them from using the word "cheese", or from posting flag burning gifs, but the forum owners can.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,600
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus   The same is is true of message boards. You have no "right to free speech" on the message board.
    The real problem is that they don't know what "freedom of speech" is.

     

    It's either not being taught in school anymore or someone isn't paying attention.

     



    It's not being taught in schools and hasn't been for a very long time. This is probably because it's not a simple thing. The courts in the U.S. are still struggling with this after hundreds of years.

     

    You would think schools would at least touch upon the basics given that it is one of our amendments!

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    A lot of people don't know that the internet isn't part of America.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,101
    Privilege is the word I would use.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,619

    I think freedom of speech is more about being responsible for what you say, and less about being able to say whatever you want. But you must have one if you're going to have the other.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Grand_Nagus   The same is is true of message boards. You have no "right to free speech" on the message board.
    The real problem is that they don't know what "freedom of speech" is.   It's either not being taught in school anymore or someone isn't paying attention.  
    It's not being taught in schools and hasn't been for a very long time. This is probably because it's not a simple thing. The courts in the U.S. are still struggling with this after hundreds of years.  
    You would think schools would at least touch upon the basics given that it is one of our amendments!


    I've been out of high school for a very long time, but if I remember correctly, what's taught is that the first amendment exists, not what it means. Maybe if students take an optional government class, it would be taught in more detail, but I don't recall anything like that from my school days, nor from my kids' school days.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494


    Originally posted by Sovrath
    You would think schools would at least touch upon the basics given that it is one of our amendments!

    *puts on tinfoil hat* Implying that those in charge of our educational system want us to be aware of the details of our rights.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    It is really about what you can get away with.

    For example, you can get away with complaining the lack of "right of free speech" here.

     

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Member Posts: 1,832
    You are absolutely correct OP. On the other hand, a forum that is too heavy handed in it's moderation will find itself quickly devoid of users.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    It is really about what you can get away with.

    For example, you can get away with complaining the lack of "right of free speech" here.

     

    very true :)

    Not aimed at you just an example

    I could respond to someones comment and say people who think like that are ( random insult ) and nothing happens

    If I say "if you think that you're an ( random insult )" I get banned.

    Both are insults aimed at the poster but one gets past the mod bots the other doesn't. So you do have free speech to say whatever you want to who ever you want.... you just have to put a pretty bow on it some times.

  • meadmoonmeadmoon Member UncommonPosts: 1,344
    Problem is that my generation raised our children to express themselves and forgot the teach them that in some circumstances they need to STFU and behave.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    You are absolutely correct OP. On the other hand, a forum that is too heavy handed in it's moderation will find itself quickly devoid of users.

    I doubt that will happen here any time soon, given the daily forum pvp here.

  • Jaychi72Jaychi72 Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Oh you mean the, "Freedom of Speech,'' that will now get you a years sentence when violated in the presence of the Secret Service?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Problem is that my generation raised our children to express themselves and forgot the teach them that in some circumstances they need to STFU and behave.

    This is certainly not such a circumstances. The most that can happen is an account got banned, and one can easily just make another.

     

  • NovusodNovusod Member UncommonPosts: 912
    Rights only exist if you have the threat of force to back them up and other people respect that force. Since it is not possible to use force over the internet we see the rise of the internet tough guys and forum trolls. In real life most trolls would have their faces caved in and their teeth broken for being as rude as they are. Moderators only have power over the forum itself, that is all. Nobody actually has any rights online. Free speech is pretty much an illusion and a social construct of polite society. As soon as people stop being polite to each other free speech dies. There is no free speech in the ghetto, prisons, or war zones. What we think of as rights is a very thin veneer of being civilized. So if you value free speech respect each others' opinions and don't be rude or it will disappear.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,604
    Originally posted by Novusod
    -snip-

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by Novusod
    Rights only exist if you have the threat of force to back them up and other people respect that force. Since it is not possible to use force over the internet we see the rise of the internet tough guys and forum trolls. In real life most trolls would have their faces caved in and their teeth broken for being as rude as they are. Moderators only have power over the forum itself, that is all. Nobody actually has any rights online. Free speech is pretty much an illusion and a social construct of polite society. As soon as people stop being polite to each other free speech dies. There is no free speech in the ghetto, prisons, or war zones. What we think of as rights is a very thin veneer of being civilized. So if you value free speech respect each others' opinions and don't be rude or it will disappear.

    how do you get that?

    People are rude on forums and blogs every day and i don't see forums and blogs disappearing any time soon.

     

  • VercinVercin Member UncommonPosts: 290

    I was just reading the EULA for something looking for sections on speech but this is a gem that i really love.

    Licensing to Use

    By posting any materials which constitute or include creative submissions, ideas, notes, concepts, comments, suggestions, feedback, information or other similar materials (collectively "creative materials") relating to ##### authors, owners or operators, our services or our system, you automatically (a) acknowledge that such creative materials shall be deemed, and shall remain, the property of ###### authors, owners and operators (b) represent and warrant that you are authorized to grant all rights in such creative materials and (c) represent and warrant that all "moral rights" in those materials have been waived with respect to the posted materials. Your disclosure, submission, offer of or posting of any creative materials shall constitute an immediate assignment to ###### authors, owners and operators of all worldwide rights, titles, and interests in all copyrights and other intellectual property rights in such materials. ##### authors, owners or operators may use, copy, reproduce, edit, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and display, create derivative works from and distribute the creative materials or incorporate the creative materials into any form, medium, or technology now known or later developed, including our services or system, and will own exclusively all such rights, titles, and interest and shall not be limited in any way in its use, commercial or otherwise, of such materials.

    With regard to any and all materials posted by you, including creative materials, #####  authors, owners or operators are and shall be under no obligation to: (a) maintain any of your posted materials in confidence; (b) to pay to you or any user any compensation for any posted materials; or (3) to respond to any of your or any other members posted materials.

    Every single one of those ''Hey guys I have a great idea posts I want to share with the world and hope one day to make a profit off of!!!'' posts....ya those belong to the place you post it and they can do with it what they want. Fascinating.

     

    The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.

  • IchmenIchmen Member UncommonPosts: 1,228

    freedom of speech is mostly a USA legal system.. not every nation/country has it. as such its impossible for any web based site to allow it for the simple fact, if the website is from a country that does not have FoS as a right for its population.. and you scream FoS, they have no idea what you are talking about. as well you have to take in to account all websites/forums are "private" domains they are not exactly public even though they are open to the public or allow public users, as such FoS really does not enter in to it as private domains are under the ruling of the host/owner of said location and not fully regulated by country rights/freedoms unless the site is a government website. 

     

    so anyone screaming FoS on a site be it a game site or something like youtube, you effectively have no rights outside of the rights the site provides. which is also why user accounts are property of the site that provides them and not the end user. 

    if a forum moderator wants to alter a post by you, they are fully within their power to do so. and you have no grounds to counter it other then issuing a formal complaint against that moderator/site.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,380

    On the subject of "free speech"

    There are a lot of advocates for "free speech" as long as you say something THEY agree with.

  • AmanaAmana Moderator UncommonPosts: 3,912
    Moved this to off-topic. Locking since this is sort of falling under a type of ethical/legal discussion. And if anyone wants to communicate feedback on moderation on this site, community@mmorpg.com is where to send it.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

This discussion has been closed.