I don't think he is that off actually, in terms of Eve in 2012 they made 66 million dollars in revenue. Let us divide that by 4 and you get 16.5 million a quarter. In the latest NCSoft quarterly report GW2 made 28 million dollars.
In terms of SWTOR, they said they had 500,000 subscribers in May '13 and I am sure that number has declined. Let us say 400,000. Let us assume a subscription fee of 10 dollars. That would mean 40,000,000 dollars.
So we can assume GW2 is not blowing Eve out of the water, impressive as it is a 9 year old game. And SWTOR can easily be beating GW2. And it is safe to say the next quarter for GW2 will be lower than the previous one.
Math. It's hard. Try again.
Well, if the numbers don't what you like change them.
By the way Somuchmass 400,000 players x $10 = $4,000,000 per month or $4,000,000x3 = $12,000,000 per quarter.
Well that was a fail on my part. But let use the numbers BioWare provided. 500k * 15 *3 = 22.5 million. That doesn't account for revenue from the cash shop.
So GW2 and SWTOR are probably on par in terms of revenue.
"Revenue has been growing too, at a compound annual growth rate of 53 percent, bringing in total revenue of $300 million over the game’s lifetime. As for profits, CCP would only say that it has “very healthy margins” — a claim backed up by the fact that it has grown to more than 450 employees despite only raising $3 million in seed funding."
Wait what? As I said, in the last quarter Guild Wars 2 made 28 million. In 2012, Eve was making 16.5 million dollars a quarter. Not sure where you are getting your numbers from.
And there is no way to know which game has more players.
3Q12 GW2 made around $42M, 4Q12 GW2 made around $110M. 1Q13 GW2 made around $33M and 2Q13 GW2 made around $26M. So that is around $210M in less than 1 year.
By the end 2011, 8 years after launch, EVE all time revenue was $300M, so saying GW2 in 1 year made the same as EVE in 6 or 7 years seem a solid statement.
No it really isn't. Eve made 66 million in 2011 and 66 million in 2012. Let us assume it makes 66 million in 2013.
To catch up to Eve right now it would need 2 more years of revenue like its previous quarter. That is if Eve made no money at all. Basically unless GW2 releases an expansion it will not catch up to Eve.
Off course, GW2 made a lot of money in its first year. That is how box sales work. But if you notice it keeps going down after that, making it harder to catch up.
I don't think he is that off actually, in terms of Eve in 2012 they made 66 million dollars in revenue. Let us divide that by 4 and you get 16.5 million a quarter. In the latest NCSoft quarterly report GW2 made 28 million dollars.
In terms of SWTOR, they said they had 500,000 subscribers in May '13 and I am sure that number has declined. Let us say 400,000. Let us assume a subscription fee of 10 dollars. That would mean 40,000,000 dollars.
So we can assume GW2 is not blowing Eve out of the water, impressive as it is a 9 year old game. And SWTOR can easily be beating GW2. And it is safe to say the next quarter for GW2 will be lower than the previous one.
Math. It's hard. Try again.
Well, if the numbers don't what you like change them.
By the way Somuchmass 400,000 players x $10 = $4,000,000 per month or $4,000,000x3 = $12,000,000 per quarter.
Well that was a fail on my part. But let use the numbers BioWare provided. 500k * 15 *3 = 22.5 million. That doesn't account for revenue from the cash shop.
So GW2 and SWTOR are probably on par in terms of revenue.
Sure.
The question is are they on par in terms of profitability?
Because that was the reason they had to reduce size in the first place.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It means it was the new release at the end of '12 beginning of '13. Look at ff its been out a month and almost has 1/2 hits already. You back to '11 or '12 Swtor was probably on top. To proclaim this means gw2 is the best game is ridiculous.
I have played GW2 a few times this year and I cant understand what makes it so popular.. It had 5,519,402 hit this year, the 2 other games behind it were FFXIV ARR with 2.822,729 hits, and swtor with 2132,26. So statistically speaking this is the best MMO out at the moment, why? It isn't that good, what am I missing?
I thought swtor was the best mmo of the year.
That's because GW2 is the first casual game which is not a WoW clone.
Granted I find it shallow (I maxed my character in a month with all Epic gear), I can safely say that's not WoW.
Just to point out how making a semi-original game can give a boost to the sales (EA-Bioware take notice)
Players want diversity, WoW is good but there is no place for the other 1.000 copycats.
I really hope that the industry is finally waking up and start being original again.
GW2 still has a huge player base and it has passed it's first year online, in a year from now they will still have a huge player base and I don't think FFXIV will even be close to them. I hope the boys from squarenix delivers to there players soon for the games sake and mainly for there fanbase. A game like FFXIV should be Epic and in my opinion it's just another wow clone with better graphics but nothing to do in it more then lvl another char after you hit 50 in two weeks.
My intention was not to compare games, my point was in MMORPG.com the most hits are based on the next big MMO. Next year it will be WildStar or ESO. RIght now it is FFXIV, last year it was GW2.
I think GW2 has a similiar player base as SWTOR to some that is huge, to others probably not. Regardless, no MMO is going to grow in he current market. There is way too much competition. Not WoW, not SWTOR, not FFXIV, not GW2. And in the future not WildStar and ESO either. But all MMOs in the market including GW2 will take a big hit when WildStar and ESO launches.
All these MMOs will peak during launch and decline. Just a fact of the market. This isn't 2004 anymore where there was no competition and MMOs had room to grow.
I agree with what you say, but I don't think Wildstar will take many players from games like GW2 it will probably take most players from games like WOW and clones from it who love there raiding but sure you are right when a new game comes out other games will suffer and there are many games down the road now.
Like you said Wildstar, ESO are just two then Everquest next who I personally think will get a huge player base. There are many others also on there way.
2014 is probably a good year for mmo players but many games will suffer.
I do think that GW2 will release an expansion next year and still remain on top as one of the biggest western mmos out there.
Next year I think WOW will take the biggest blow of all the games if they don't quickly copy everything from everybody else as they always do and remain on top.
We can all just hope that the mmo playerbase grows and that no game will suffer at all
I expect ESO and Wildstar to both flop because they went with the subscription model. People just aren't interested in that anymore unless they are getting something leaps and bounds better than what is out there and neither of these games look like they will be.
I don't think he is that off actually, in terms of Eve in 2012 they made 66 million dollars in revenue. Let us divide that by 4 and you get 16.5 million a quarter. In the latest NCSoft quarterly report GW2 made 28 million dollars.
In terms of SWTOR, they said they had 500,000 subscribers in May '13 and I am sure that number has declined. Let us say 400,000. Let us assume a subscription fee of 10 dollars. That would mean 40,000,000 dollars.
So we can assume GW2 is not blowing Eve out of the water, impressive as it is a 9 year old game. And SWTOR can easily be beating GW2. And it is safe to say the next quarter for GW2 will be lower than the previous one.
Math. It's hard. Try again.
Well, if the numbers don't what you like change them.
By the way Somuchmass 400,000 players x $10 = $4,000,000 per month or $4,000,000x3 = $12,000,000 per quarter.
Well that was a fail on my part. But let use the numbers BioWare provided. 500k * 15 *3 = 22.5 million. That doesn't account for revenue from the cash shop.
So GW2 and SWTOR are probably on par in terms of revenue.
SWTOR doesnt have 500k subs. The best they came so far is "under 500k" lol
SWTOR has SW license to pay for.
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No, its nowhere near the same. When you move to what matters - profit. Revenue is pretty meaningless. EvE just recently announced "very healthy profit margins". SWTOR yet has to release "it made profit at all"!
I expect ESO and Wildstar to both flop because they went with the subscription model. People just aren't interested in that anymore unless they are getting something leaps and bounds better than what is out there and neither of these games look like they will be.
Yup. Judging by the leaks floating around ESO would probably struggle even as an f2p game in its current state.
GW2 still has a huge player base and it has passed it's first year online, in a year from now they will still have a huge player base and I don't think FFXIV will even be close to them. I hope the boys from squarenix delivers to there players soon for the games sake and mainly for there fanbase. A game like FFXIV should be Epic and in my opinion it's just another wow clone with better graphics but nothing to do in it more then lvl another char after you hit 50 in two weeks.
My intention was not to compare games, my point was in MMORPG.com the most hits are based on the next big MMO. Next year it will be WildStar or ESO. RIght now it is FFXIV, last year it was GW2.
I think GW2 has a similiar player base as SWTOR to some that is huge, to others probably not. Regardless, no MMO is going to grow in he current market. There is way too much competition. Not WoW, not SWTOR, not FFXIV, not GW2. And in the future not WildStar and ESO either. But all MMOs in the market including GW2 will take a big hit when WildStar and ESO launches.
All these MMOs will peak during launch and decline. Just a fact of the market. This isn't 2004 anymore where there was no competition and MMOs had room to grow.
I would agree with you that the hits aren't really an accurate reflection of the number of players. I'd say it relates more to hype/marketing.
That said, I play both GW2 and SWTOR (both since launch) and there are far, far more people actively playing GW2 in my experience. SWTOR sharply declined a few months before they went F2P, then it definitely spiked up when they made the conversion, but now it seems to be heavily declining again.
I think it's a shame, but then again, I've come to terms with SWTOR just being almost a lobby style game, in the sense that it never really did feel like an open world (or worlds) game. There are enough players active to make it feel alive, and I suppose that's all it really needs.
GW2 on the other hand, has never seemed more healthy and more populated. In my (obviously anecdotal) experience it seems more active than it did a few months after launch, and that's pretty cool. It's far from a perfect game though, but enjoyable in its way.
Comments
Well that was a fail on my part. But let use the numbers BioWare provided. 500k * 15 *3 = 22.5 million. That doesn't account for revenue from the cash shop.
So GW2 and SWTOR are probably on par in terms of revenue.
No it really isn't. Eve made 66 million in 2011 and 66 million in 2012. Let us assume it makes 66 million in 2013.
To catch up to Eve right now it would need 2 more years of revenue like its previous quarter. That is if Eve made no money at all. Basically unless GW2 releases an expansion it will not catch up to Eve.
Off course, GW2 made a lot of money in its first year. That is how box sales work. But if you notice it keeps going down after that, making it harder to catch up.
Sure.
The question is are they on par in terms of profitability?
Because that was the reason they had to reduce size in the first place.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
We don't know who is making more profits. The numbers we are comparing is what SWTOR is making after their layoffs.
That's because GW2 is the first casual game which is not a WoW clone.
Granted I find it shallow (I maxed my character in a month with all Epic gear), I can safely say that's not WoW.
Just to point out how making a semi-original game can give a boost to the sales (EA-Bioware take notice)
Players want diversity, WoW is good but there is no place for the other 1.000 copycats.
I really hope that the industry is finally waking up and start being original again.
I agree with what you say, but I don't think Wildstar will take many players from games like GW2 it will probably take most players from games like WOW and clones from it who love there raiding but sure you are right when a new game comes out other games will suffer and there are many games down the road now.
Like you said Wildstar, ESO are just two then Everquest next who I personally think will get a huge player base. There are many others also on there way.
2014 is probably a good year for mmo players but many games will suffer.
I do think that GW2 will release an expansion next year and still remain on top as one of the biggest western mmos out there.
Next year I think WOW will take the biggest blow of all the games if they don't quickly copy everything from everybody else as they always do and remain on top.
We can all just hope that the mmo playerbase grows and that no game will suffer at all
I expect ESO and Wildstar to both flop because they went with the subscription model. People just aren't interested in that anymore unless they are getting something leaps and bounds better than what is out there and neither of these games look like they will be.
SWTOR doesnt have 500k subs. The best they came so far is "under 500k" lol
SWTOR has SW license to pay for.
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...
...
No, its nowhere near the same. When you move to what matters - profit. Revenue is pretty meaningless. EvE just recently announced "very healthy profit margins". SWTOR yet has to release "it made profit at all"!
Yup. Judging by the leaks floating around ESO would probably struggle even as an f2p game in its current state.
I would agree with you that the hits aren't really an accurate reflection of the number of players. I'd say it relates more to hype/marketing.
That said, I play both GW2 and SWTOR (both since launch) and there are far, far more people actively playing GW2 in my experience. SWTOR sharply declined a few months before they went F2P, then it definitely spiked up when they made the conversion, but now it seems to be heavily declining again.
I think it's a shame, but then again, I've come to terms with SWTOR just being almost a lobby style game, in the sense that it never really did feel like an open world (or worlds) game. There are enough players active to make it feel alive, and I suppose that's all it really needs.
GW2 on the other hand, has never seemed more healthy and more populated. In my (obviously anecdotal) experience it seems more active than it did a few months after launch, and that's pretty cool. It's far from a perfect game though, but enjoyable in its way.
GW2 = good game + many players getting good content
SWTOR = bad game + light/almost empty servers (yes I check in and see what's there), went F2p in a bad way to prevent death.
That kinda sums it up why GW2 has more hits then SWTOR.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"