I've been a subscriber since early access. I enjoy the game for what its, with my very limited amount of available gaming time. I would however like some sandbox elements to the game. As a former SWG player, I would like at least player housing, if not player cities. Instanced would be fine. The ships work, but don't have the same feel as having house on a planet. I kind of miss just going off into the wilderness and exploring.
It would be nice if they added some more player ships as well.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk As far as MMOs go, I have played a LOT and I'm really sorry, but SWTOR is easily within the top 10% of MMOs. I don't know if people hate everything EA so they inherently have a problem with SWTOR, but the game has some of the best, most individual story lines of any MMO. I found that they at least made it a game that is worth playing each class. There are definitely improvements that can be made, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find 10 "better" MMOs with some of the crap that's getting churned out right now.
Saying SWTOR is within the top 10% of MMOs is misleading, especially when 95% of the MMOs released are pure crap. Sure its better when you compare it to junk. Like, is that really the kind of thing that you want to use as a defense? "Well, the game isn't as bad as MapleStory, I don't know why so many people dislike it" Cmon now.
EA hate commonly cited as a reason why SWTOR gets dumped on, but that is just false. Pretty sure FIFA, Madden, The Sims and BF still sell millions of copies every year like clockwork. People hate EA, sure - because in many, many cases its justified (Sim City anyone?). In reality, it has close to/near zero tangible impact. Good games sell and get good reviews. Bad games don't and get bad ones.
People have an inherent problems with SWTOR because the game has inherent design flaws. EA being in front of it/not in front of it wouldn't change that. You need to understand that spending 6+ years and some astronomical amount of money on this game, only for it to release without features that have been a staple in the genre since its inception on a poor engine with little to no endgame is what did this game in.
The storylines are over-hyped as some amazing feature. Don't get me wrong, some are really well done and most are above average, but the fact is that so little of the actual leveling process are the class stories - Maybe 15%. You have to trudge through 85% of the same content you've already completed. This goes back to one of the major complaints people have about the game - the liner nature and the lack of replay value.
Its fine if you like it, but I really dislike when people try and shift the blame off the development team and place it elsewhere.
I think it is a valid measure. On top of that, though, I did say that I would find it difficult to find 10 MMOs (in release) that are better than it. If you want to go Sci-Fi your options are even more limited.
I agree with your EA argument with an asterisk on Madden, since nobody else can make a football game. However, SWTOR did get good reviews, it sold millions of units at launch and maintains millions of users right now, years after launch. Granted, the vast majority are F2P players, but I would venture to say that they are still maintaining hundreds of thousands of active subscribers. As far as subbed MMOs go, I think they are probably top 5.
I can't disagree with you on the design issues, but something like engine is one of those building-block-type decisions that you have to live with once you make. I'm probably not going to want to be the guy who says "Hey... what about HeroEngine?" in the initial design discussions, but someone did and someone obviously thought it was a great idea. Both people may need to be fired. It's kinda like building a house and then, afterwards, being like "ooooooo, yeah, I probably should have used concrete as a foundation, logs just don't keep the water out the same." Actually, that's probably a less expensive mistake than this.
As far a stories go, yes, they are the smaller percentage of the game. Actually, I think that there is probably more content here than what I care for. I subscribed specifically for the XP buffs so I could power through additional story lines. The pacing is actually one of my major complaints with the game.
I would never blame a developer for an end product. They aren't responsible, in any way, for the creative vision. Do I feel like there was a lack of vision? Yeah. Was there a lack of industry knowledge? Probably. However, I am glad they were willing to take the risks they did. I can't say there wasn't an attempt to create something new or innovative. I actually hope that someone is able to go to school on their dollar and learn something. I also hope they continue to be successful because it will hopefully indicate that spending money to build a good game (regardless of how it turns out) can yield some returns. Otherwise, we'll continue to get the $50,000 Korean MMOs churned out on a monthly basis. "Oh, wow, I am a hero who is destined to destroy this villain in a medieval setting..... and I can have spiky hair." We can all do without that.
Either way, I'll go further and say I no longer play SWTOR for many of the reasons you stated. However, I also can't lie, and I will go on there from time to time if I'm really looking for a Star Wars fix. I will probably play the expansion though.
Hmm I have to agree with Frostvien, and oh by the way...no one else is allowed to make a Star wars game now either, sound familiar?
And yes you CAN BLAME the games horrible performance on the game engine. The developers took the alpha build of the Hero Engine, chopped it up so badly that it hardly resembled the original engine, so much so that the people who made the Hero Engine had a article on their web site distancing themselves from what Bioware has done.
But like you said , I left for many other reason plus the one mentioned.
What would make me come back?? Stop the damn emphasis on the cartel market so much and employ some game mechanics to get some of these fluff items in game other than using real money(subs should be able to cover that...I think, of course if they still had the subs) and Oh yeah....Continue with the actual class stories that they so adamantly promoted when they were making this game. Because if anyone hasn't figured it out yet...Makeb is nothing more than a V.O generic questline, that they said they needed to sell to subs at first , but now it's freaking free......And before it's asked, No I did not enjoy it, in fact I have yet to finish the story of Makeb. Because when I was playing , it finally sunk in that this was how some thing original(class stories ) turned into something generic (all encompassing story).
I would only go back permanently if they would revamp the traveling and zoning. It's way too excessive. Click here, click there, zone here, zone there, click & zoning everywhere. It's so ridiculous. All they need to do is add waypoints like GW2, or add portals on fleets, just like WoW has in their major capital cities. It would go a long way to improving the game.
After that, they would need to revamp the zones themselves. They feel too artificial. It would never happen though. The game will shut down like Warhammer did.
I liked playing SWTOR, a lot. It was by far the most fun to play mmo I've played, and I'm often tempted to come back. But SWTOR was also one of the most watered down theme parks I've played, and that's why I don't come back.
SWG didn't have enough themepark, and SWTOR doesn't have enough sandbox. Guess in the end that's what it seems to always boil down to for me with modern mmos.
first, some of the classes have to be unsided and the players pick what side they choose(bounty hunter, smuggler, spy, trooper) and realy need a neutral side, where those gather who don't want to be part of the dark or jedi side, instead, want a large guild and with that own planets(like some criminal groups, or kingdoms).
Second, there are lot of neutral worlds where the sides can meet, isnt it more fun to be able capture those locations?(space and ground)
I don't know maybe I just have yet to run into all the problems you guys see or maybe you are just jaded. But I myself love this game and currently im in the 20's with 4 days played. 4 Days played of that crapfest that is Final Fantasy and I am level 50+.
The game has great cut scenes some of the best combat in a MMO that I have ever played. And just all around seems to be pretty polished. Sure there are bugs, but nothing game breaking that I have seen.
If they need to do anything I think it would be to add some real Faction PVP.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I can't answer the Poll with the options provided....
I was in beta for SWTOR. Like so many others I reported many areas of the game that needed to be re-evaluated and possibly reworked if BioWare was going to make it work well. We beta testers were ignored for the most part. A few ideas BioWare took notice of, but precious few. Some of the issues weren't major design problems, just major bugs that needed to be fixed.... the kind of stuff Devs SHOULD fix before Launch. I bought and played until day 20 or so...
This past Spring a friend of mine had tried SWTOR as a F2P and asked me to join with them, so I did. I gave me a good "Star Wars" ish like "fix" and so I subbed a few months. I enjoyed it but it wasn't great enough to hold my interest long. I have just about stopped playing it.
You see... SWTOR's design itself is what's flawed in my opinion, it's a single player console game ported to PC, with some Coop for very small groups, but that is not what I think a MMO should be. I know, 50 million People will tell me I am wrong, and I will in turn tell them they are warped, we will never agree, nor will I agree with how BioWare made SWTOR. I will not get into an argument on this website over this as what we say here is meaningless to the MMO Publishers... they don't give a rat's petunia what we think.
Add to this the Cash Shop Focus which is at least 50% of everything that happens in SWTOR, a "feature" I don't agree with in any MMO, and then it's understandable why I have the opinion I do.
Also I will add this, and I don't care WHO gets mad for it... I find it not fun, and completely BS about how most of Republic characters dress and act as if they were in fact Dark Side disciples even if they are not Force Sensitives. This is one MMO where I feel the Devs would be moderating how People play their characters and Players would at least try to role play generally the way an actor would for the Faction they chose. This is one MMO where how others play their characters does affect other Players due to the armor and appearance system ingame. Nothing makes me more angry than a Jedi Sage running around on Tython dressing and looking, and acting/behaving as if they were Darth Sidious's apprentice. Player like that I want to dropkick flat out of game, but if I say anything at all to the GMs about this I am told to be tolerant or else get banned. For me that ruins any chance of recreating a Star Wars experience in SWTOR.
Hate me for that if you want, but never in SWG was this problem so apparent, so felt, or so pervasive as it is SWTOR. Some Players aren't bothered by this kind of thing but after discussing this with other SWTOR Players I know I am not the only one that is bothered by this. Sometimes in a MMO too much choice is a bad thing.
I love Star Wars, loved it since it first released in theaters (yes I am that old), and SWTOR has somewhat of a Star Wars feel to it, but it ain't SWG and it ain't a good MMO. Sure SWTOR was enjoyable to a certain extent, but as a Consumer, as a Customer, I was not satisfied with the Product.
My option would be this: Scrap SWTOR to the Data Recycler, lease the Rights to another MMO Publisher and try again.
Comments
I've been a subscriber since early access. I enjoy the game for what its, with my very limited amount of available gaming time. I would however like some sandbox elements to the game. As a former SWG player, I would like at least player housing, if not player cities. Instanced would be fine. The ships work, but don't have the same feel as having house on a planet. I kind of miss just going off into the wilderness and exploring.
It would be nice if they added some more player ships as well.
Hmm I have to agree with Frostvien, and oh by the way...no one else is allowed to make a Star wars game now either, sound familiar?
And yes you CAN BLAME the games horrible performance on the game engine. The developers took the alpha build of the Hero Engine, chopped it up so badly that it hardly resembled the original engine, so much so that the people who made the Hero Engine had a article on their web site distancing themselves from what Bioware has done.
But like you said , I left for many other reason plus the one mentioned.
What would make me come back?? Stop the damn emphasis on the cartel market so much and employ some game mechanics to get some of these fluff items in game other than using real money(subs should be able to cover that...I think, of course if they still had the subs) and Oh yeah....Continue with the actual class stories that they so adamantly promoted when they were making this game. Because if anyone hasn't figured it out yet...Makeb is nothing more than a V.O generic questline, that they said they needed to sell to subs at first , but now it's freaking free......And before it's asked, No I did not enjoy it, in fact I have yet to finish the story of Makeb. Because when I was playing , it finally sunk in that this was how some thing original(class stories ) turned into something generic (all encompassing story).
I would only go back permanently if they would revamp the traveling and zoning. It's way too excessive. Click here, click there, zone here, zone there, click & zoning everywhere. It's so ridiculous. All they need to do is add waypoints like GW2, or add portals on fleets, just like WoW has in their major capital cities. It would go a long way to improving the game.
After that, they would need to revamp the zones themselves. They feel too artificial. It would never happen though. The game will shut down like Warhammer did.
I liked playing SWTOR, a lot. It was by far the most fun to play mmo I've played, and I'm often tempted to come back. But SWTOR was also one of the most watered down theme parks I've played, and that's why I don't come back.
SWG didn't have enough themepark, and SWTOR doesn't have enough sandbox. Guess in the end that's what it seems to always boil down to for me with modern mmos.
first, some of the classes have to be unsided and the players pick what side they choose(bounty hunter, smuggler, spy, trooper) and realy need a neutral side, where those gather who don't want to be part of the dark or jedi side, instead, want a large guild and with that own planets(like some criminal groups, or kingdoms).
Second, there are lot of neutral worlds where the sides can meet, isnt it more fun to be able capture those locations?(space and ground)
They shouldn't have used an alpha engine and they should have stuck closer to the gameplay their company was/is known for.
Lots of other random things, but I'm not particularly invested one way or another anymore. Excusing my collector's edition. >_>
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I don't know maybe I just have yet to run into all the problems you guys see or maybe you are just jaded. But I myself love this game and currently im in the 20's with 4 days played. 4 Days played of that crapfest that is Final Fantasy and I am level 50+.
The game has great cut scenes some of the best combat in a MMO that I have ever played. And just all around seems to be pretty polished. Sure there are bugs, but nothing game breaking that I have seen.
If they need to do anything I think it would be to add some real Faction PVP.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I can't answer the Poll with the options provided....
I was in beta for SWTOR. Like so many others I reported many areas of the game that needed to be re-evaluated and possibly reworked if BioWare was going to make it work well. We beta testers were ignored for the most part. A few ideas BioWare took notice of, but precious few. Some of the issues weren't major design problems, just major bugs that needed to be fixed.... the kind of stuff Devs SHOULD fix before Launch. I bought and played until day 20 or so...
This past Spring a friend of mine had tried SWTOR as a F2P and asked me to join with them, so I did. I gave me a good "Star Wars" ish like "fix" and so I subbed a few months. I enjoyed it but it wasn't great enough to hold my interest long. I have just about stopped playing it.
You see... SWTOR's design itself is what's flawed in my opinion, it's a single player console game ported to PC, with some Coop for very small groups, but that is not what I think a MMO should be. I know, 50 million People will tell me I am wrong, and I will in turn tell them they are warped, we will never agree, nor will I agree with how BioWare made SWTOR. I will not get into an argument on this website over this as what we say here is meaningless to the MMO Publishers... they don't give a rat's petunia what we think.
Add to this the Cash Shop Focus which is at least 50% of everything that happens in SWTOR, a "feature" I don't agree with in any MMO, and then it's understandable why I have the opinion I do.
Also I will add this, and I don't care WHO gets mad for it... I find it not fun, and completely BS about how most of Republic characters dress and act as if they were in fact Dark Side disciples even if they are not Force Sensitives. This is one MMO where I feel the Devs would be moderating how People play their characters and Players would at least try to role play generally the way an actor would for the Faction they chose. This is one MMO where how others play their characters does affect other Players due to the armor and appearance system ingame. Nothing makes me more angry than a Jedi Sage running around on Tython dressing and looking, and acting/behaving as if they were Darth Sidious's apprentice. Player like that I want to dropkick flat out of game, but if I say anything at all to the GMs about this I am told to be tolerant or else get banned. For me that ruins any chance of recreating a Star Wars experience in SWTOR.
Hate me for that if you want, but never in SWG was this problem so apparent, so felt, or so pervasive as it is SWTOR. Some Players aren't bothered by this kind of thing but after discussing this with other SWTOR Players I know I am not the only one that is bothered by this. Sometimes in a MMO too much choice is a bad thing.
I love Star Wars, loved it since it first released in theaters (yes I am that old), and SWTOR has somewhat of a Star Wars feel to it, but it ain't SWG and it ain't a good MMO. Sure SWTOR was enjoyable to a certain extent, but as a Consumer, as a Customer, I was not satisfied with the Product.
My option would be this: Scrap SWTOR to the Data Recycler, lease the Rights to another MMO Publisher and try again.