Players create the issues, not the game. If players can't work together that is their own fault. Simply group with people who have an idea of what they are doing.
Wrong. Mechanics have a lot to do with grouping. In games that force grouping or give huge increases in xp or loot to groups more people group than games with mechanics where there is no penalty to solo or mobs are too easy-many won't group. If most people are not grouping then it is difficult to get in a group, let alone a good group, as majority does solo content. CO was a good example, combat was fun but could solo all but 6 or so missions and those were so hard group would wipe repeatedly. And without any death penalty, you just ran from respawn at entrance and kept zerging with no plan until done. Mechanics/game design very much influence/direct how people play and effects everyone.
Lol I am not wrong XD. Mechanics help, but it isn't what MAKES peoples group. Sorry to tell you this, but this portion really has very little to do with gaming at all.
Grouping and working together is part of human nature.
Now obviously the game needs to have the mechanics for it to even work. However, if it has the mechanics I don't see how it would be anything BUT the players fault.
Why do people work together in real life? The reward isn't any greater. The experience isn't any greater, actually it's less. There are certain benefits when it comes to working together in real life.
1. It's more enjoyable
2. Things get done faster
3. You are able to do things that would be other wise impossible without such a large group
4. Structure. Humans love structure and order. Being in a group increases motivation and leadership.
So why does this all of a sudden break down in video games? Why do these things all of a sudden need extra reward? It's because the players are spoiled. Make the dungeons harder! That forces people to have to work together.
Make some dungeons impossible to solo.
One can then argue, that no one will do it. The fix for that is to give a nice reward to the players at the end of the dungeon. Change it up every month. So players will keep coming back to get the new reward.
Again if there is still issues, it's the players fault -.-. Players expect way to much sometimes. Rewards for ever little thing they do. Hand holding and kiddie stuff. XD
Edit: Course the issue is, you misunderstand what I meant by that. That statement I made assumed the game had proper mechanics for grouping.
We haven't seen all the skill trees, but it seems players will be able to heal and do damage, just like in GW2.
I remember nobody ever grouped up in GW2, there was no need to even talk. Each person handled his own mob.
Looking at the TESO videos, you can see the same thing, lots of soloing within the group.
Anyone else see a potential problem?
Yes, it will have the same kind of asocial community that GW2 has:
the same thing happened in WoW as soon as communities got large; people would no longer group outside of their social circles and would shy away from grouping with strangers.
It isn't so much behavior stemming from the games design as it is a natural property, so I think that they have high expectations of their game, since they are preparing for the large crowd instead of a smaller hardcore one.
People don't like to interact with strangers, but they do like to use them as a backup to experience content with known friends.
lol - the GW2 community is not anti-social. Why do you think it is? I have no problems with the social aspect of the game. In fact, I have played games where you HAVE to group and people really didn't talk either. Forcing people to group DOES NOT MAKE THEM SOCIAL. Think of being in grade school where you had to learn to dance (if they did that in your school). Did you talk to the girl you were paired with? If you didn't, based on your attitude, MAN YOU ARE ANTI-SOCIAL.
Can I ask you something, didn't your mother tell you not to talk to strangers?
Players create the issues, not the game. If players can't work together that is their own fault. Simply group with people who have an idea of what they are doing.
Wrong. Mechanics have a lot to do with grouping. In games that force grouping or give huge increases in xp or loot to groups more people group than games with mechanics where there is no penalty to solo or mobs are too easy-many won't group. If most people are not grouping then it is difficult to get in a group, let alone a good group, as majority does solo content. CO was a good example, combat was fun but could solo all but 6 or so missions and those were so hard group would wipe repeatedly. And without any death penalty, you just ran from respawn at entrance and kept zerging with no plan until done. Mechanics/game design very much influence/direct how people play and effects everyone.
As others have said, A GAME (mechanics or otherwise) cannot make you social. No one can do that other than yourself. You can force grouping all you want, it doesn't mean people will be social.
As others have said, A GAME (mechanics or otherwise) cannot make you social.
Actually they can. Some people enjoy grouping only for social interactions, while others like to see a purpose in this. I don't consider myself a social person (first case), but in DAoC my major motive to interact with others was to find excellent guild/alliance to do serious PvP. In WoW, again, I wanted to be in a good guild to do serious PvE instancing. Later in WoW that has changed. With Dungeon/Raid Finder the need for a guild have been diminished and my needs for PvE instancing are simply fullfiled/satisfied with casual raiding. And no, I don't think that is a good thing.
Games shape your behavior whether you like it or not. With new games, people are "forced" into casual playing: no trinity! jump into instance whenever you want! no grouping needed! you can kill it with a sneeze!
Today, someone posted YT movie about WoW and "why people stoped caring". Confirms my thoughts on that matter. Worth to see.
Also, you may lookup for "Designing games with Intrinsic and Extrinsic rewards". Most new games are overloaded with Extrinsic rewards, which provide fun for short period of time but don't suffice for longer commitment.
So, forcing grouping or not, it is a part of serious change in game mechanics.
We haven't seen all the skill trees, but it seems players will be able to heal and do damage, just like in GW2.
I remember nobody ever grouped up in GW2, there was no need to even talk. Each person handled his own mob.
Looking at the TESO videos, you can see the same thing, lots of soloing within the group.
Anyone else see a potential problem?
I don't see any issues.
Players create the issues, not the game. If players can't work together that is their own fault. Simply group with people who have an idea of what they are doing.
In my opinion, this can work out well in this area as it forces people to get to know each other if they want a group that works together well. The people who don't bother interacting with players, tend to be the people who do their own thing in the group.
More choice is never a bad thing. If a person needs to be limited by a class just to party well, they will be better off playing a different game. This game requires a little more thinking and interaction with people if you want a good group. It's simple as that.
Course I am used to games like this since I played mabinogi for like 5+ years. You have to really interact with players and pay attention of your surroundings. If 1 person messes up, it can screw everyone in the group and you end up with a party wipe.
In other words it requires MORE working together and communication. I never played GW2, but i assume if it isn't working well, it's because players simply fail at communicating and working together properly. It isn't hard to come up with a plan before the dungeon. Who is in charge of what and such.
Example:
Bob, you have the most health and defense, you take the defensive position and draw the agro.
Bill, you have the best healing among us, you can join in on the fight, just make sure no one falls. Keep an eye on health!
Jane, attack! attack! attack! Don't give them any chance to breath.
I will take out all the long range enemies and help Jane destroy the enemies that are left after.
It really isn't all that hard in my opinion. lol me and my long winded responses -.-
Edit: I should mention that, I suppose an issue could happen if the mobs are to easy.
If the game is so easy that people don't have to communicate, then they won't. They will go along and solo their mobs, collect their loot, and that will be the end of it.
I predict this is the future of ESO. The game seriously seems easy mode.
We haven't seen all the skill trees, but it seems players will be able to heal and do damage, just like in GW2.
I remember nobody ever grouped up in GW2, there was no need to even talk. Each person handled his own mob.
Looking at the TESO videos, you can see the same thing, lots of soloing within the group.
Anyone else see a potential problem?
I don't see any issues.
Players create the issues, not the game. If players can't work together that is their own fault. Simply group with people who have an idea of what they are doing.
In my opinion, this can work out well in this area as it forces people to get to know each other if they want a group that works together well. The people who don't bother interacting with players, tend to be the people who do their own thing in the group.
More choice is never a bad thing. If a person needs to be limited by a class just to party well, they will be better off playing a different game. This game requires a little more thinking and interaction with people if you want a good group. It's simple as that.
Course I am used to games like this since I played mabinogi for like 5+ years. You have to really interact with players and pay attention of your surroundings. If 1 person messes up, it can screw everyone in the group and you end up with a party wipe.
In other words it requires MORE working together and communication. I never played GW2, but i assume if it isn't working well, it's because players simply fail at communicating and working together properly. It isn't hard to come up with a plan before the dungeon. Who is in charge of what and such.
Example:
Bob, you have the most health and defense, you take the defensive position and draw the agro.
Bill, you have the best healing among us, you can join in on the fight, just make sure no one falls. Keep an eye on health!
Jane, attack! attack! attack! Don't give them any chance to breath.
I will take out all the long range enemies and help Jane destroy the enemies that are left after.
It really isn't all that hard in my opinion. lol me and my long winded responses -.-
Edit: I should mention that, I suppose an issue could happen if the mobs are to easy.
If the game is so easy that people don't have to communicate, then they won't. They will go along and solo their mobs, collect their loot, and that will be the end of it.
I predict this is the future of ESO. The game seriously seems easy mode.
Right and I agree. If it's too easy, it could pose a real problem.
Comments
Lol I am not wrong XD. Mechanics help, but it isn't what MAKES peoples group. Sorry to tell you this, but this portion really has very little to do with gaming at all.
Grouping and working together is part of human nature.
Now obviously the game needs to have the mechanics for it to even work. However, if it has the mechanics I don't see how it would be anything BUT the players fault.
Why do people work together in real life? The reward isn't any greater. The experience isn't any greater, actually it's less. There are certain benefits when it comes to working together in real life.
1. It's more enjoyable
2. Things get done faster
3. You are able to do things that would be other wise impossible without such a large group
4. Structure. Humans love structure and order. Being in a group increases motivation and leadership.
So why does this all of a sudden break down in video games? Why do these things all of a sudden need extra reward? It's because the players are spoiled. Make the dungeons harder! That forces people to have to work together.
Make some dungeons impossible to solo.
One can then argue, that no one will do it. The fix for that is to give a nice reward to the players at the end of the dungeon. Change it up every month. So players will keep coming back to get the new reward.
Again if there is still issues, it's the players fault -.-. Players expect way to much sometimes. Rewards for ever little thing they do. Hand holding and kiddie stuff. XD
Edit: Course the issue is, you misunderstand what I meant by that. That statement I made assumed the game had proper mechanics for grouping.
lol - the GW2 community is not anti-social. Why do you think it is? I have no problems with the social aspect of the game. In fact, I have played games where you HAVE to group and people really didn't talk either. Forcing people to group DOES NOT MAKE THEM SOCIAL. Think of being in grade school where you had to learn to dance (if they did that in your school). Did you talk to the girl you were paired with? If you didn't, based on your attitude, MAN YOU ARE ANTI-SOCIAL.
Can I ask you something, didn't your mother tell you not to talk to strangers?
As others have said, A GAME (mechanics or otherwise) cannot make you social. No one can do that other than yourself. You can force grouping all you want, it doesn't mean people will be social.
Actually they can. Some people enjoy grouping only for social interactions, while others like to see a purpose in this. I don't consider myself a social person (first case), but in DAoC my major motive to interact with others was to find excellent guild/alliance to do serious PvP. In WoW, again, I wanted to be in a good guild to do serious PvE instancing. Later in WoW that has changed. With Dungeon/Raid Finder the need for a guild have been diminished and my needs for PvE instancing are simply fullfiled/satisfied with casual raiding. And no, I don't think that is a good thing.
Games shape your behavior whether you like it or not. With new games, people are "forced" into casual playing: no trinity! jump into instance whenever you want! no grouping needed! you can kill it with a sneeze!
Today, someone posted YT movie about WoW and "why people stoped caring". Confirms my thoughts on that matter. Worth to see.
Also, you may lookup for "Designing games with Intrinsic and Extrinsic rewards". Most new games are overloaded with Extrinsic rewards, which provide fun for short period of time but don't suffice for longer commitment.
So, forcing grouping or not, it is a part of serious change in game mechanics.
If the game is so easy that people don't have to communicate, then they won't. They will go along and solo their mobs, collect their loot, and that will be the end of it.
I predict this is the future of ESO. The game seriously seems easy mode.
Right and I agree. If it's too easy, it could pose a real problem.