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[Column] General: Blaming “The Kids” Is So Immature

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126

It's all the rage to blame any community woes on the "kids" that inhabit our gaming worlds. In today's Social Hub, we take a look at that idea and offer our thoughts on the issue. Read on and then leave your (mature) thoughts in the comments.

The knee-jerk scapegoating of “kids” when it comes to discussing trends in MMO development over the years has reared its ugly head yet again. While changes in development and a wider appeal have happened through the years, there are also many more games available to choose from. It's one thing to dislike a game's features or style, or even express disappointment in development direction, and it's another to sling terms like “WoW kiddies” that merely serve as self-aggrandizement. It's this insistence that is nearly always an exaggeration and serves to poison discussion and encourage stagnation when it comes to MMO players. And it's time to stop.

Read more of Christina Gonzalez's The Social Hub: Blaming “The Kids” Is So Immature.

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Comments

  • nolic1nolic1 Member UncommonPosts: 715
    Wow what you say is so true and I agree.

    Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online

    Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw

  • ZydariZydari Member UncommonPosts: 84
    Nice article Christina. Well said.

    Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.

    Thomas Jefferson

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    As I said when the controversy over EQN's graphical style began, the reaction of the side calling it "kids stuff" was no different than the 12 year old who throws tantrums over their mom buying them something "uncool". Too immature to realize the only thing immature is their reaction.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • deathangelldeathangell Member CommonPosts: 85
    Its the TRUTH older games throw the term "kids fault" around because its the TRUTH. They are not referring to the age of the gamer but referring to when the gamer start in the gaming mmo world. The facts are that the WoW era have asked for things to be nerfed so much that they have caused the degradation of gaming. When WoW was first introduced even 5 mans were difficult for some people but its gotten to the point where a tank and a healer could carry 3 naked dps through a 5man. The facts are that the "New Era" of gamers want things handed to them and thus there called kids. They are trolly and get off when they cause pain to both them self's and others.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Originally posted by deathangell
    Its the TRUTH older games throw the term "kids fault" around because its the TRUTH. They are not referring to the age of the gamer but referring to when the gamer start in the gaming mmo world. The facts are that the WoW era have asked for things to be nerfed so much that they have caused the degradation of gaming. When WoW was first introduced even 5 mans were difficult for some people but its gotten to the point where a tank and a healer could carry 3 naked dps through a 5man. The facts are that the "New Era" of gamers want things handed to them and thus there called kids. They are trolly and get off when they cause pain to both them self's and others.

    The ridiculous part here about such an opinion is that WOW and games like it are Dumbed-down to better suite casual adult gamers more so than they are dumbed-down for kids. Kids by nature are more adaptable to learning new things as that's what they spend 90% of their time doing knowingly or not. Yes there are scientific statistics to prove this.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Christina, please rewrite that with some ad hominems and wild exaggerations. I've read through it three times, still haven't found anything to argue with, and it's really pissing me off. ><

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 961

    I agree that calling other names like "Wow kiddies" etc. is just wrong.

    On the other hand you can't blame people when they call EQN character art style for "kiddies", "disney" or "cartoony". Because they really do look like that. Whether EQN will tell an adult story or not is unknow yet to us. We also don't know if there will be any challenging gameplay. People just can judge on that what they know, rigth ?

    The main problem I see with MMOs are not the customers. Be them whatever they are. Kids, grown ups, casuals, hardcore, any combinations. The problem are the developers who in order to make MMOs more accessible for casual players (which is a good thing imo) also killed any challenge. I believe you can make an MMO which is accessible for casuals and still challenging. Unfortunately we moved from casual unfriendly/challenging MMOs at the start of MMO era to casual friendly/no challenge at all MMOs nowadays.

    I like challenges in games which I have to master. Be it single or multiplayer. Most MMOs (possibly all AAA MMOs) are so easy it's not funny anymore. But I might get off topic here. ;)

  • krondinkrondin Member UncommonPosts: 106
    Until there is true accountability for players of these games, fingers will point, names will be called, and many will be referred  to as " Child like mentality ". There is currently no real way in place to hold game players accountable for there actions while playing games. Much less any real way to hold accountable those who make a living off of misuse of games, commonly referred to as "gold farmers". None of this will stop until game programs are advanced enough to add accountability. If i knew how to do this i would be the "next big thing in gaming". 
  • WereLlamaWereLlama Member UncommonPosts: 246

    Good article.

    I think what is more compelling to myself is the Why.  Why are there people who dislike a few aspects of a game or player base and quickly go the the extreme on bashing it.  Desiring its removal if not complete extermination.

    I would argue the same rapid transition from small disagreement to abject hatred is in more areas than just computer games these days.  I see the same extremism in sport fans, politics, foreign relations, and especially in religion, and its getting more amped up.

    Why does this happen?

    I'm not sociologist but I have a hunch it has to do with all our desire to have meaning, to have value, or in most cases, just to be heard, in a world of ever increasing conflict, social media shared ideas, and competition.  If you don't have a twitter following, you might as well not exist, etc. 

    The world is much smaller now, and we are all drowning in a sea of ideas, and our personal identity, our own narrative to share, is but a drop in the ocean.  This makes us want to scream at the top of our lungs.  "Listen to me! I am someone!"

    So, back on subject... Devs that listen more to their players, maybe find ways to create a smaller or at least a more attentive world for their players, might allow us all to be heard and help validate our ever shrinking existence, and go back to what many games are supposed to do, make us feel powerful.

    -WL

     

     

  • donpopukidonpopuki Member Posts: 591
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but video games are for the most part are for kids. Sure you got old farts like myself (36) and my father in law (62) that play but we notice that most of the other players are in the 15-25 range.
  • crack_foxcrack_fox Member UncommonPosts: 399

    I believe that it is generally the case that, when the word 'kid' is used in an accusatory manner, the accuser is themselves a 'kid'. It's what 16 year-olds call 14 year olds, it's what 14 year olds call 12 year olds. Young people calling slightly younger people names. Nothing new there. Calling such behaviour immature is a given. Indeed, expecting anything else seems somewhat naive. 

    The author makes the point that these games appeal to a broader section of society than previously. This is true, and adult gamers need to remember that we share this space (both in-games and on these forums) with an increasing number of younger players. Perhaps we need to be a little more tolerant of their foibles. 

     

  • EruseronEruseron Member CommonPosts: 1
    Education is what matters, not age. I've played with 14 years old that behaved and held their role better than most adults. When it comes to wow though, I still think that pandaren race was a esthetic mistake and that the game has been dumbed down. I particularly miss the necessity of CC's in dungeons.
  • SwankdSwankd Member UncommonPosts: 236
    I like in Eve, how when you check a pilot's info, it will show you how long they're character has been a part of the game and been a part of their corp. I feel like people would like it if in each game, they could check the player info, and it would say how long they have been active or been a part of a certain guild. Would really help you to know who to take advice from and who to not lol

    image

  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987

    And yet:

    -Children have a markedly shorter attention span than adults, resulting in tasks needing to be streamlined in order for them to remain engaged.

    -Children are typically focused on the self where activities are concerned, and are not inclined to be interested in abstract concepts like economics, politics, etc. Moreover, children typically exhibit a poor understanding of consequences (especially if delayed over time), and will externalize the cause of consequences they experience.

    -Children physiologically and psychologically rely on adults to limit their choices. Radical liberty in a child produces anxiety and thus undesirable behaviors.

    Adult thinking is being hedged out of MMORPGs, leaving the games produced to be more and more undigestible to those afflicted with the inability to enjoy simplistic games. MMOs are evolving to exclude a certain audience, and that audience is getting pissed.   

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but video games are for the most part are for kids. Sure you got old farts like myself (36) and my father in law (62) that play but we notice that most of the other players are in the 15-25 range.

    Most of the other players are actually about 18-34, with the average age being 26. Another cool statistic is that about 20-25% of online gamers are over the age of 50.

    Here's a related link that you might find interesting:

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/22/the-wow-factor-how-much-do-you-know-about-the-players-behind-th/#continued

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361

    I was playing Ultima Online, Resident Evil, and other games rated T or higher with realistic graphics when I was 10-11, and so was a lot of my friends.  Kids love realistic graphics just as much as cartoon style graphics.  And theres plenty of adults including me who love cartoon style graphics just as much as realistic graphics too.  Theres so many amazing games with stylized graphics in gaming history. Zelda, Final Fantasy (some more than others), Bioshock, Darksiders 2, Fable, Okami and the list goes on.

    So yea it is immature when peoples excuse for stylized graphics is for the kids.

  • c4viper1c4viper1 Member UncommonPosts: 28

    i dont blame the diddys for the rotten games we keep getting, i blame theyr daddys and mommys who start to play the game to have some time with the said kiddys and become ocasional players and F...k it up for everybody else because they cant tell theyr A$$ from theyr heads ! The damn kiddys play better then they do !!!

     

  • rnor6084rnor6084 Member UncommonPosts: 111

    "It's unhelpful at best and immature at worst since it's nothing more than an ego boost gained by putting others down."

    This will most certainly bruise egos and hurt the feelings of many "adults" that infest these forums and many others. 

     

    Well said and it needs to be hammered home again and again and again.

  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987
    Originally posted by Distopia
    As I said when the controversy over EQN's graphical style began, the reaction of the side calling it "kids stuff" was no different than the 12 year old who throws tantrums over their mom buying them something "uncool". Too immature to realize the only thing immature is their reaction.

    Vehement disagreement is immature? That's an interesting statement.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • logan400klogan400k Member UncommonPosts: 68

    The ironies abound in the article and in the responses. I will put up front that the following is my impression after about 14 years of MMO gaming. Just so you ware warned.

     

    First, the "kids" learn and play from watching the "adults". The growth of the genre can be attributed to that as new people, of all ages, came into playing these games. Without a doubt the maturity levels vary and without a doubt squeaky wheels are often perceived to get the oil. I am not sure though that the cause and effect are entirely or even clearly understood. People coming in want the shiny things too and they want to play on a level field with their friends. Some are even impatient, but maybe they come in and understand that level 1-84 is simply a means to an end. That end being level 85 (or what have you). More and more stuff became the driving force because having a +5 Vorpal Avenger is not enough. It has to +6 or Legendary or made out of the purest Green.

     

    Yes leveling has changed and gotten easier. That was never a nod to the casual gamer though. It was a nod to the Raider and the Dungeon player. She and he did not and do not feel a need to waste too much time at the lower levels, unless they are lower level raids, dungeons, or unlock achievements. 

     

    I played EQ the other day because EQN looks exciting. It was nostalgia for me and I nearly got killed by almost clicking on an NPC instead of hailing them. So little improvements like that and slightly easier leveling were certainly different than WoW, which in its vanilla flavor had lots of Easter eggs and plenty of exploration. It wasn't until later, once the wonder had worn off, that WoW took on its more bullet train to the level cap approach. The explorers had stopped coming.

     

    It has happened all over gaming. No one plays years long pen n paper rpg campaigns anymore. Most play a few months, weeks, or (gasp)one-shots. We have less time to spend on games, though that is mostly self inflicted. We look at games differently as well. MMOs were born of DnD and CRPGs that we wanted to digitize and turn into mulit-player games. If a company puts a single player game out these days, it is considered incomplete.

     

    The long and short of it is, those gamers who are spending their money are who is influencing developers. Being a starving artist is no fun and in many ways is not rewarding. So they make fun games that are going to make money. A jaded community does not want to buy into another person's vision: they have been burned too many times.  All of these factors contribute to the state of the industry, not just "kiddies".

    Just My 2 Lunars

  • DrCokePepsiDrCokePepsi Member UncommonPosts: 177
      WoW has admitted they have aimed they're general direction towards the kids. 'kids/kiddies' in MMO gaming means underage children signing onto these games. The under-age kids have swarmed into the genre mostly through runescape which is an okay game, but i digress, and the sudden booming popularity of the mmo genre. These kids more often then not have a lack of patience in these games and when it comes to arguing P2P or F2P, they cry F2P because they don't have a job, no income, and they're parents won't allow it, see the effect?
     
       So to them $15 bucks a month is some insane stack of cash that they have to drop every couple weeks. To any other adult gamer, $15 is simply an hour's worth of work for an entire month of solid, almost never-ending gameplay complete with a massive world, a civilization of other people, and constant upgrades and events in-game that would never be supplied in some single-purchase game/mmo. Not to say that I'm against kids as a whole playing these games, but the impatient ones who can't get $15 a month shouldnt whine about it everywhere, the other one's who mow lawns or something for income/who's parents can pay and if they understand all the adult concepts of mmo's that's up to the parents to decide, I have nothing against that. But the booming outcry against P2P models and the sandbox games which require you to grind, are more often than not the children who play these games. 
     
       I have NOTHING against themepark mmo players, or supporters of all the AAA titles coming out who's developers just grab at their players for money, I'm just against the swarming number of kids who have come into this genre, underaged, and cry at the developers to create a next to perfect replica of a console game and call it an mmo. I'm also against the people who cry out AGAINST sandbox games, their community, and P2P models because god-forbid to make a more expensive, involved mmo than a B2P, or F2P themepark, should these developers actually get paid for their efforts. 
     
      To me, P2P games means that the game-creator actually cares for their audience of gamers, Blizzard aside, most P2P games actually don't make that much money, they spend it mostly on updates, SERVER MAINTENANCE which is extremely expensive, hosting thousands-millions of people on a plethora of servers is no cheap task, and they spend it on the company itself to maintain. A lot goes into a P2P game mostly for the community. I'm in college right now for game design, the whole writing process, art, the coding, all of these core structures of a game, so I can completely understand how to develop a game, and manage a team of developers in my own company. In that company I will someday develop an mmo. That has been my dream, and the payment method i will use? P2P. I have no interest whatsoever in earning some confounded amount of money. I want to use every bit of it to create, and maintain an amazing mmorpg. When/if I have surplus quantities of cash after paying my team they're share? I either expand the team, advertise more, add larger updates etc. In any other model of gaming the developer is not nearly as ambitious as that and will not create a game nearly as fun and enjoyable as a P2P model game.
     
      Also, think of it this way, you pay $60 bucks for the newest console game, for about 60-100 hours MOST of gameplay. In an mmo within that first one or two months, you've spent about 30 bucks on the base product normally, complete with a 30-day sub, then another $15 for the next, within those two months not only is the experience guaranteed to be far more amazing than some console game, but you've also normally already spent enough hours in that mmo to have used up what you would have gotten out of that console game. At this point you've only spent $45, over a two month period. The next two months from that point on will only be $30 per every two months. 
     
      In reality, if you have a job, the mmo fee is next to nothing. to complain about that fee is childish because statistically, unless you dont enjoy mmo's, you are being given soo much more value with that mmo than any console games. That is a fact. If you continue to continue you're mmo experience, well, it's worth it isn't it?

    Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
    just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
    and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
    Thank you for your patience.
  • tokinitokini Member UncommonPosts: 372
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by deathangell
    Its the TRUTH older games throw the term "kids fault" around because its the TRUTH. They are not referring to the age of the gamer but referring to when the gamer start in the gaming mmo world. The facts are that the WoW era have asked for things to be nerfed so much that they have caused the degradation of gaming. When WoW was first introduced even 5 mans were difficult for some people but its gotten to the point where a tank and a healer could carry 3 naked dps through a 5man. The facts are that the "New Era" of gamers want things handed to them and thus there called kids. They are trolly and get off when they cause pain to both them self's and others.

    The ridiculous part here about such an opinion is that WOW and games like it are Dumbed-down to better suite casual adult gamers more so than they are dumbed-down for kids. Kids by nature are more adaptable to learning new things as that's what they spend 90% of their time doing knowingly or not. Yes there are scientific statistics to prove this.

    yep, never heard 'the kids' complainging about difficulty, they just plugged away - sure they might give you shit for failing, but they want the challenge. its always the people who go on about their "full time job, wife and kids, 3 dogs and lawn that has to be mowed" that cry about not having the time to do things that have low % chance to advance you - kill a boss 20 times, still dont get the drop you want? F that, make the bosses drop tokens, run two dungeons, buy item from a vendor.

    the anti-raid crowd? guarantee its 99% veteran gamers that dont have it in them anymore to work on progrssion - so games give it too em on a silver platter.  thats where the low difficulty is coming from.

    plus kids generally probably have way more time to do the 'hardcore' sutff - rep grinding, dungeon grinding, this grind that grind..

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo Member Posts: 383
    It's funny that games were originaly made for kids, but it turned out that those kids after growing up kept playing games xD It was pretty unexpected and the industry had to adjust to that. I still have the feeling that adults are the guests in ths world, not kids. But they want to take over and take all the fun away from kids, by taking everything that doesn't look serious out of those games. But it is just my opinion.
  • MLecl0001MLecl0001 Member Posts: 153

    I agree with this article, however sadly the people who really need to read and understand the article wont understand, cant understand, or wont be bothered to understand.  

     

    Also what I found the most humorous about the whole "WoW kiddie" label was the fact that they werent talking about kids but were most often times refering to the mid20s to mid30s male that still thought he was in college in a frat house.  I say this even when I am in my early 30s and most of my MMO days were in my 20s.  Instead of "wow kiddies" people should just label them what they are, immature people of all ages.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    The use of "kids" in this context is perfectly reasonable. The fact is that MMORPG has become more and more dumbed down to have "wider appeal" so in effect they are now so easy and dumbed down that they cater to "kids" be it actual kids or people with the mental capability of one.
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