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Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in History

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  • SereliskSerelisk Member Posts: 836
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by wgc01

    Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..

    Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ?   The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ? 

    Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs.  However GW2 is none of those things.  The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.

    This is actually a very naive way to look at it. It ignores the culture of media & hype that builds around these new games. They do not exist in a vacuum.

    Furthermore, Guild Wars 2 may not have the exact same systems in place, but they're designed to cater to a very similar audience. As ArenaNet has shown us, time gating content isn't an exclusive feature to subscription games or raiding content.

    So to clarify, he wasn't making an analogy. He was citing an example from a similar circumstance. And he's right in his conclusion, which was that the sales figures for a buy to play MMO mean nothing. He didn't say it was necessarily negative, but that you're probably foolish for thinking that 3 million sales translates into concurrent or returning users. The actual number is likely far lower.
     

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Originally posted by Serelisk
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by wgc01

    Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..

    Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ?   The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ? 

    Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs.  However GW2 is none of those things.  The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.

    This is actually a very naive way to look at it. It ignores the culture of media & hype that builds around these new games. They do not exist in a vacuum.

    Furthermore, Guild Wars 2 may not have the exact same systems in place, but they're designed to cater to a very similar audience. As ArenaNet has shown us, time gating content isn't an exclusive feature to subscription games or raiding content.

    So to clarify, he wasn't making an analogy. He was citing an example from a similar circumstance. And he's right in his conclusion, which was that the sales figures for a buy to play MMO mean nothing. He didn't say it was necessarily negative, but that you're probably foolish for thinking that 3 million sales translates into concurrent or returning users. The actual number is likely far lower.
     

    The title of the thread is, "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in history" and not "Speculation on active users".  Concurrent or returning users has nothing to do with their sales number.   Theorizing on active players is futile and pure speculation for those who are pro or against GW2 until Anet puts out an official message.  The only thing official we have now is what this thread OP is about.  Seems cut and dry to me.  Call me crazy.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • ArthasmArthasm Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Originally posted by Tsar_Bomba

    Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?

     

    9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80

     

    Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.

     

    (Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)

    If I have 2 choices:

    1) Get payed $1400/month by Anet to play GW2

    2) Pay 10x more (monthly) to Blizzard to play Wow

    I'll gladly choose option 2.

  • jtcgsjtcgs Member Posts: 1,777
    Originally posted by Arthasm

    If I have 2 choices:

    1) Get payed $1400/month by Anet to play GW2

    2) Pay 10x more (monthly) to Blizzard to play Wow

    I'll gladly choose option 2.

     Fools/money...you know the saying. Not saying it applies to you, just that it applies.

    Anyway, this thread is full of derp. 2+ pages of someone talking about WoW expansions proving this article wrong as if WoW even had an expansion 9 months after release...just goes to show how great GW2 is, got them WoW kiddies all up in a bunch.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • SpeakzzzSpeakzzz Member UncommonPosts: 29

    I too foolishly bought this game because of the hype and boredom.  That and I bought it for the pvp side of the game I had not intended to play the MMO side.  That said, the pvp side of the game was horrible so I rolled a character to max level and I did that just to try to squeeze my money's worth out of it.  After that I dropped it.  I will NEVER EVER buy another Arena Net game.  I have never spent so much money for a pile of trash.  

     

    What is sad is I actually got more enjoyment from SWTOR than GW2.  So yeah I am sure they sold a ton of copies because GW1 was a great game but GW2 I wouldn't give away to my enemy.

  • Tsar_BombaTsar_Bomba Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by Arthasm
    Originally posted by Tsar_Bomba

    Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?

     

    9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80

     

    Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.

     

    (Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)

    If I have 2 choices:

    1) Get payed $1400/month by Anet to play GW2

    2) Pay 10x more (monthly) to Blizzard to play Wow

    I'll gladly choose option 2.

     

    Of course you would choose option 2.

    Your parents are made of money and you don't respect them anyway.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Tsar_Bomba

    Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?

    9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80

    Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.

    (Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)

    Then again, if you enjoyed Wow 9 years 1400 bucks might be worth it. I surely spent more money on beer those 9 years.

    I never played Wow but you can't just measure stuff in money unless you are a stockholder or CEO. MMOs is about how much fun you get out of them, no matter if you play Wow, GW2 or Eve.

    Playing GW2 do opens for wasting my money on other stuff (like beer) but it will be as gone anyways. Money is just a mean to have a place to live, eat and have some fun with. :)

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Arthasm

    If I have 2 choices:

    1) Get payed $1400/month by Anet to play GW2

    2) Pay 10x more (monthly) to Blizzard to play Wow

    I'll gladly choose option 2.

    So you are saying that you would turn down a fine paying job that only made you play a MMO?

    You have way too much money, I would gladly play Hello kitty online for 1400 bucks. Wow I would play for $800 (40 hours a week). I really wouldn't waste my time on a game I didn't love unless I could live somewhat on it.

    GW2 I play for free, but I enjoy that one, I even payed 60 bucks to start and bought 4K gems (about 60 more bucks) to unlock some character and bank slots.

    Prefering either of the games do not make anyone a moron, but it do make me wonder what wonderful job you have that is better than playing a MMO, any MMO.

    Working usually suck, if anyone wants to hire a professional MMO player I play anything for $1400. And I mean anything.

  • Tsar_BombaTsar_Bomba Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Tsar_Bomba

    Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?

    9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80

    Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.

    (Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)

    Then again, if you enjoyed Wow 9 years 1400 bucks might be worth it. I surely spent more money on beer those 9 years.

    I never played Wow but you can't just measure stuff in money unless you are a stockholder or CEO. MMOs is about how much fun you get out of them, no matter if you play Wow, GW2 or Eve.

    Playing GW2 do opens for wasting my money on other stuff (like beer) but it will be as gone anyways. Money is just a mean to have a place to live, eat and have some fun with. :)

    Ok if you want to look at it from that point of view...

    If more game companies owned up to the fact that they no longer need $10-15 for 'bandwidth', 'development', or any other excuse that would be 70 more games at a $50 buy-in you could be enjoying for 9 years.

    So, 1 game at $1400 for a total of 9 years of fun -or-

    70 games for 9 years making a total of 630 years of fun. <- That's pretty close to a fungasm...

    (But more seriously and to the point, it is a more accurate fee for supporting an online game in 2013, as opposed to 1997)

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

     

    Snip

     

    20-30 million in adds?

    Who is insane here?

    How much do you thing programmers make?

    Arenanet not to long ago had 163 employees ( http://www.giantbomb.com/arenanet-inc/3010-306/) and only recently surpassed 300.

    They have around 30 programmers - lets say they earn an average of 70K a year. So that is $10M, give or take.

    They also have around 30 artists. Lets say an average of 40K a year. that is another $6M.

    If the other 100 employees earned $25K, that is another $12.5M.

    So $30M to $50M tops.

    They have no crazy expensive cinematics, they reused part of the engine and they already had a decent network infrastructure.

    They also move some people to NCSoft West and whatnot. 

    Do you think NCSoft would invest $100M in a game?

     

    So now you've actually thought about expenditure of a company your estimates have gone up to 30 to 50 million? the problem is you've only covered known wages what about all the other expenses? Customers service, PR, contracters, rent, amenities, advertising in the EU and US, travelling and paying for gaming shows like E3, Gamescon etc.. you've also left out the biggest wages of the team leaders and bosses. There are others but that'll do for now. Also by my calculations the game has made 229 billion Won since release, that translates to $205 million but also from your own admission Arenanet are now way bigger an entity so costs of running the company have escalated, their yearly costs have gone up considerably while revenue is falling.

     

    Could this be the reason for the "course correction" and the PR spin in this article as their initial buoyancy from the initial income is not there anymore and they have to find ways to stablise the fall before it becomes serious? Oh! and Aion reportedly costs $100m and my fellings of the cost of advertising the game is about all costs including all PR. The film Green Lantern cost $150 million but worldwide advertising pushed that number to $300 million, don't underestimate the costs of getting your product out there. Remember I'm not criticising the GW2 or whether it has made its money back its more about the PR spin to overshadow the changes and falling revenue, its about the future of the game and next quarter reports will tell us if the "course correction" has worked.

    If they hand't made enough money they would be pushing expansions out with their 300+ their company became opposed to the 150+ they had in 2009.

    If they hand't made enough money they wouldn't be growing.

    And when the company grew from 100 to 150 and then to 200 their revenue was next to zero.

    You know why?

    Because in the real world first you invest (by having the capital or by burrowing - Anet "burrowed" from NCSoft). You don't collect sub fees first to then make an expansion.

    Microtransactions pay for the live team.

    The rest of the people are receiving money invested by NCSoft to make other stuff, like getting the game ready to launch in China and most likely an expansion.

    The course correction was about making more permanent content instead of temporary content, as players asked for.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Not sure why people would try to compare WoW at release to GW2 at release.  Back when WoW released how many people were really playing online games as compared to today.  Half a Million back then was hugh...now that is crap numbers.  WoW pretty much created the environment for people to get 3 million box sales today. 

    Even though the market was small back then, WoW had 3.5 million subscribers within 7 months of launch and 3 million subscribers in the West alone within a year.  Subscribers mean much more than "box sales" as it only counts active users.  Box sales could have been much higher.

    By the way the source for the "fastest selling MMO" is DFC Intelligence.  They have got reports wrong in the past, they also use things like Xfire as a source:

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-10-dota-2-passes-league-of-legends-as-most-played-pc-game

    Explains the fact that they don't count "expansions" as MMOs when every other metric in the industry counts it as such.

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo
    Originally posted by expresso
    Think Blizzard might disgree.  just saying

    Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW  didn't sell 3 millions within a year..

    And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?

    Because expansions are additions to an already released game.

    Which makes it even more difficult to sell it in huge numbers because it is an expansion. And yet Blizzard does it every time.

    It is just very convenient to not count expansion numbers because they make GW2 numbers look bad. I consider every expansion as a game in itself considering the amount of content it adds to already existing game.

    Go buy MoP without everything prior and try to play. Expansions are not games.

    If you want to argue semantics we can do it all day long. You said expansions are not 'games'. That is the only point i was arguing about in first reply. Yeah expansions are not stand alone games but they are still very much 'games'.

    Okay, then let's go by your logic.

    Would you consider DLC a game for itself and count it's release as a fresh release date for the game?

    Expansion is nothing but a huge DLC. Only thing I could consider as seperate games would be GW1 stand alone expansions. You can pick up any expansion you like and start playing without buying the original game.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by korent1991
     

    Okay, then let's go by your logic.

    Would you consider DLC a game for itself and count it's release as a fresh release date for the game?

    Expansion is nothing but a huge DLC. Only thing I could consider as seperate games would be GW1 stand alone expansions. You can pick up any expansion you like and start playing without buying the original game.

    Calling an expansion a huge DLC is like calling a game a huge DLC.  There is as much content in one expansion in WoW as there are with most other MMOs.  In fact, there is significantly more content in MoP than there was in Vanilla WoW.

  • DekahnDekahn Member UncommonPosts: 38
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by korent1991
     

    Okay, then let's go by your logic.

    Would you consider DLC a game for itself and count it's release as a fresh release date for the game?

    Expansion is nothing but a huge DLC. Only thing I could consider as seperate games would be GW1 stand alone expansions. You can pick up any expansion you like and start playing without buying the original game.

    Calling an expansion a huge DLC is like calling a game a huge DLC.  There is as much content in one expansion in WoW as there are with most other MMOs.  In fact, there is significantly more content in MoP than there was in Vanilla WoW.

     

    Regardless an expansion is not the game, its not stand alone. It's an addition to the actual game itself. That in no way is the same thing as calling a game a DLC, that makes no sense at all.

  • NixeskaNixeska Member UncommonPosts: 37
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Xarko
    Unfortunatly I am one of those 3m. Lesson learnt tho, no more pre-orders.

    I learned mine with AION.

     

    i learned mine with tera, swtor, and rift. The only thing ive preordered in the last few years that to me was worth every peny was GW2.

    Are you really learning your lesson if you kept doing it?

  • verenovverenov Member UncommonPosts: 72
    I can tell you the reason that you don't see people playing GW2: You're not playing GW2.  If you're not there, you don't know. GW2 is nowhere near dead.  Like many here, I stopped playing after a couple months to go play some other games, and came back only on holidays.  I then tried Flame and Frost but wasn't really in the mmo mood. so didn't remain.  Now, I'm back and probably will be for good while.  UI changes, achievement points became currency, laurel purchases, Living Story events every 2 weeks or so, better gem shop items...Yeah, it's a better game now than it was at launch.  If it's not for you, that's fine.  However, it's not a dead game.  Remember, because YOU'RE not there doesn't mean that others aren't. :)

    "I am handicapped...I'm psychotic."

  • WarfromaboveWarfromabove Member Posts: 2

    GW2 is a sequel. Essentially the same as an expansion.  There was just a greater time gap in this than most WoW expansions.

     

    LOGIC BOMB THAT!

     

    PS

     

    This doesn't really mean anything.

  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 1,020
    Toyota Corolla is the best selling car of all time. Must mean its awesome.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,782

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest-selling_albums_worldwide#United_States

    Boy bands ftw... I do honestly believe that GW2 had the best marketing campaign in the brief history of mmorpgs.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:

    1) GW2

    2) SWTOR

    3) Warhammer Online

    Seems like great company to be in.

    What I find so ironic about this thread is all those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW."

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:

    1) GW2

    2) SWTOR

    3) Warhammer Online

    Seems like great company to be in.

    What I find so ironic about this thread is all those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW."

    You played the game for a stint, right?  Were you looking for the next "Wow" when you played and assumed everyone else was too or is it that everyone else who played was looking for the next "WoW" except you?

    Me personally, I played GW2 because I was tired of the "WoW' type games of quest hub, trinity, gear grind, and raids.  So not all of those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW".

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:

    1) GW2

    2) SWTOR

    3) Warhammer Online

    Seems like great company to be in.

    What I find so ironic about this thread is all those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW."

    You played the game for a stint, right?  Were you looking for the next "Wow" when you played and assumed everyone else was too or is it that everyone else who played was looking for the next "WoW" except you?

    Me personally, I played GW2 because I was tired of the "WoW' type games of quest hub, trinity, gear grind, and raids.  So not all of those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW".

    It doesnt change the fact that you were looking for a replacement. I didn't say "wow clone" I said the next "WoW". Not everyone who buys a new car goes for the updated version of the model they drove for years.

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:

    1) GW2

    2) SWTOR

    3) Warhammer Online

    Seems like great company to be in.

    What I find so ironic about this thread is all those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW."

    You played the game for a stint, right?  Were you looking for the next "Wow" when you played and assumed everyone else was too or is it that everyone else who played was looking for the next "WoW" except you?

    Me personally, I played GW2 because I was tired of the "WoW' type games of quest hub, trinity, gear grind, and raids.  So not all of those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW".

    It doesnt change the fact that you were looking for a replacement. I didn't say "wow clone" I said the next "WoW". Not everyone who buys a new car goes for the updated version of the model they drove for years.

    Awww, you completely skipped the first half of my post.  Oh well. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:

    1) GW2

    2) SWTOR

    3) Warhammer Online

    Seems like great company to be in.

    What I find so ironic about this thread is all those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW."

    You played the game for a stint, right?  Were you looking for the next "Wow" when you played and assumed everyone else was too or is it that everyone else who played was looking for the next "WoW" except you?

    Me personally, I played GW2 because I was tired of the "WoW' type games of quest hub, trinity, gear grind, and raids.  So not all of those sales were by people looking for the next "WoW".

    It doesnt change the fact that you were looking for a replacement. I didn't say "wow clone" I said the next "WoW". Not everyone who buys a new car goes for the updated version of the model they drove for years.

    Awww, you completely skipped the first half of my post.  Oh well. 

    I didn't skip it. It just didn't know how to respond. Of course I was looking for the next "WoW". Everyone has thier own reasons, but I still think many were trying to recapture something that was lost in WoW and that GW2 would be able to re kindle that. And if that's not you, Fine, and it's not many others. I know many were former GW1 players who were looking for the next GW. But many others were still looking to replace WoW. That's how GW2 was marketed. To fix what was wrong with the genre. And by that, we all know they were talking about fixing what was wrong with WoW. You know, the whole "We won't be satisfied until we're number one" and all that.

     

    Edit:

    I was also responding to the list. Not just GW2 but to all 3. And I will still believe that for most of all 3 of those games combined sales, were from WoW/ former WoW players,

  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by Utinni
    Toyota Corolla is the best selling car of all time. Must mean its awesome.

    +6

    Top 3 most viewed music videos on YouTube : Psy - Gangnam Style , Justin Bieber - Baby Ft.Ludacris , Jennifer Lopez -On the floor Ft.Pitbull . Must mean they are awesome.

     

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
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