Honestly, if GW2 is considered a failure, I would like to know how many mmos make the metric mark for success.
I dont think many are saying its not a success....just that they need to start announcing active player numbers and stop with the "box sales" pitch.
With that logic, SWTOR was also a huge success, seeing as it sold just under 3 million copies...but we all know it wasnt a huge success, because Bioware announces active sub/player numbers. See what I mean?
SWTOR.
-> merged servers
-> people fired
-> change in monetizing model.
GW2
-> Server increase during launch, capacity increase afterwards
-> no people fired
-> cash shop delivering $25M+ per quarter
See, SWTOR was not a success because EA/Bioware aimed and invested for a certain plateau that was clearly not reached, in fact SWTOR probably has less active players than GW2 and probably makes less money than GW2 despite having a team several times bigger and invested much more money.
Why are you turing this inter a GW2 vs SWTOR thing, saying GW2 wasnt a faileur? Why are you defending GW2s active player numbers? Did anything in my post imply GW2 wasnt doing well? Why are listing reason why SWTOR failed? None of that has antyhing to do with what i said.
I seem to recall saying this whole boxes sold sctick is getting stale, when they can simply announce active players, like all other major MMOs out there. Oh, but they cant because there is no sub you say? D3 doesnt have a sub either, and bliz still released active player numbers a year in.
Nothing in your post refutes what I said, so not sure why you quoted me...
You are basically confirming my point....SWTOR held the title of fastest selling MMO in history before GW2 came along, yet we know its a faileur not by getting all insector gadget on their "staff layoffs and server merges", but because they announce active subs/pplayer....Any company announcing "fastest selling" with regards to an MMO, when player retention is all that matters, is a farce.
Didn't you brought SWTOR?
Why is SWTOR a failure?
Because of the things I enumerate.
GW2 had none of those things, did it?
Did I ever say or imply that it did? Why are you turing this into a debate of GW2 vs SWTOR????
Now back to the coment you quoted and then went off topic on....
Are you actually saying box sales means just as much as active player numbers when it comes to MMOs?
Honestly, if GW2 is considered a failure, I would like to know how many mmos make the metric mark for success.
I dont think many are saying its not a success....just that they need to start announcing active player numbers and stop with the "box sales" pitch.
With that logic, SWTOR was also a huge success, seeing as it sold just under 3 million copies...but we all know it wasnt a huge success, because Bioware announces active sub/player numbers. See what I mean?
I agree and many are just seeing through the spin while others are sucking it down like mana from heaven. I do think GW2 is a success its just how much of one we would like to know but with the recent financials from Ncsoft showing a 20% revenue drop for GW2 this announcement was probably timed to overshadow that negative news.
It obviously isn't pulling in the revenue that they thought it would. There is a reason for their "change in direction" of development. They have obviously figured out which type of added content brings players in steadily and results in higher profits. I applaud them for not giving up or just trying to sustain.
Couple that with all the nerfing of gold grind spots all over the game you have company pushing players towards the gem shop I'd have to agree about the nature of the "course correction".
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Honestly, if GW2 is considered a failure, I would like to know how many mmos make the metric mark for success.
I dont think many are saying its not a success....just that they need to start announcing active player numbers and stop with the "box sales" pitch.
With that logic, SWTOR was also a huge success, seeing as it sold just under 3 million copies...but we all know it wasnt a huge success, because Bioware announces active sub/player numbers. See what I mean?
I agree and many are just seeing through the spin while others are sucking it down like mana from heaven. I do think GW2 is a success its just how much of one we would like to know but with the recent financials from Ncsoft showing a 20% revenue drop for GW2 this announcement was probably timed to overshadow that negative news.
It obviously isn't pulling in the revenue that they thought it would. There is a reason for their "change in direction" of development. They have obviously figured out which type of added content brings players in steadily and results in higher profits. I applaud them for not giving up or just trying to sustain.
Couple that with all the nerfing of gold grind spots all over the game you have company pushing players towards the gem shop I'd have to agree about the nature of the "course correction".
Yeah... Games don't just have a "change of direction" for no reason..... There is obviously a motive behind it. As much as one would like to think that it is because it is what they thought would be best for players, that would be pretty naive. Like I said though, at least they are trying different things to see if they can bring up the revenue and keep players engaged at the same time.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Honestly, if GW2 is considered a failure, I would like to know how many mmos make the metric mark for success.
I dont think many are saying its not a success....just that they need to start announcing active player numbers and stop with the "box sales" pitch.
With that logic, SWTOR was also a huge success, seeing as it sold just under 3 million copies...but we all know it wasnt a huge success, because Bioware announces active sub/player numbers. See what I mean?
I agree and many are just seeing through the spin while others are sucking it down like mana from heaven. I do think GW2 is a success its just how much of one we would like to know but with the recent financials from Ncsoft showing a 20% revenue drop for GW2 this announcement was probably timed to overshadow that negative news.
It obviously isn't pulling in the revenue that they thought it would. There is a reason for their "change in direction" of development. They have obviously figured out which type of added content brings players in steadily and results in higher profits. I applaud them for not giving up or just trying to sustain.
Couple that with all the nerfing of gold grind spots all over the game you have company pushing players towards the gem shop I'd have to agree about the nature of the "course correction".
This is what has always bugged me about cash shops versus subs. In order for them to make revenue, they have to make visiting the shop an attractive option over playing the game, and the most effective way to do that is by making major systems within the game overly difficult and/or inconvenient for the average player. The game developers for these types of games build systems more around getting you to pay them than around fun for the player.
Honestly, if GW2 is considered a failure, I would like to know how many mmos make the metric mark for success.
I dont think many are saying its not a success....just that they need to start announcing active player numbers and stop with the "box sales" pitch.
With that logic, SWTOR was also a huge success, seeing as it sold just under 3 million copies...but we all know it wasnt a huge success, because Bioware announces active sub/player numbers. See what I mean?
I agree and many are just seeing through the spin while others are sucking it down like mana from heaven. I do think GW2 is a success its just how much of one we would like to know but with the recent financials from Ncsoft showing a 20% revenue drop for GW2 this announcement was probably timed to overshadow that negative news.
It obviously isn't pulling in the revenue that they thought it would. There is a reason for their "change in direction" of development. They have obviously figured out which type of added content brings players in steadily and results in higher profits. I applaud them for not giving up or just trying to sustain.
Couple that with all the nerfing of gold grind spots all over the game you have company pushing players towards the gem shop I'd have to agree about the nature of the "course correction".
This is what has always bugged me about cash shops versus subs. In order for them to make revenue, they have to make visiting the shop an attractive option over playing the game, and the most effective way to do that is by making major systems within the game overly difficult and/or inconvenient for the average player. The game developers for these types of games build systems more around getting you to pay them than around fun for the player.
That is true in f2p games but they also have the benefit of low barrier to entry and constant churn of players. The whole argument p2p, b2p and f2p will have benefits and downside to each business plan. I personally prefer f2p play as I know I'll be paying eventually it all just depends on how much if I stay and I get to try a big slice of the game for free. From the outset knowing how f2p cashshops work I felt Arenanet were being naive to believe they could run the game on the b2p model and a non intrusive cashshop. If the downward trend in revenue continues expect to see the cash shop be more intrusive as time goes on, the gold grind nerfs are one such thing, the event tie ins are another if somewhat non forced but they are time limited things, sort of get it before its gone forever incentives. What you are saying is exactly what the "course correction" is trying achieve without going the full f2p cash shop route.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Most overhyped mmo of all time perhaps. It is pretty much a dead zone from levels 1-50 on almost any server and it is barely a year old.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Of the many odd things about the Church of GW2, the oddest has to be the reflexive "You've never played GW2 or you too would love it!!111!!one!!!" mantra.
9months is a strange period to pick. Is that because if you go 1 year you can't make the same claim?
Also why are people comparing WoW to GW2. WoW dwarfed GW2 numbers in a year or so... WoW blew open a much smaller market. WoW was a subscription based game.
MMOs are about longevity, until we get some hard evidence that the game is growing instead of just the typical PR maneuvering we have no proof it is growing.
From what i've seen sales are down 20% from last quarter... and they are offering free trials a year in. Those are not good signs. You can say the server cap increases are a sign of growth, but we have no real figures on those caps, and we know they wouldn't announce if they ever lowered the caps. They can basically change those caps as will (as they have stated) and we wouldn't know what any of their thresholds are.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Most overhyped mmo of all time perhaps. It is pretty much a dead zone from levels 1-50 on almost any server and it is barely a year old.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Try like 3 weeks ago I played Einstein. As I said just about dead from 1-50 now on ANY server you want to play on. How do i know ? It is because I saw with my own eyes and I don't spew non factual information just to get a rise out of some fanboy.
Of the many odd things about the Church of GW2, the oddest has to be the reflexive "You've never played GW2 or you too would love it!!111!!one!!!" mantra.
Are you saying the level 1-50 zones are empty?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Most overhyped mmo of all time perhaps. It is pretty much a dead zone from levels 1-50 on almost any server and it is barely a year old.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Try like 3 weeks ago I played Einstein. As I said just about dead from 1-50 now on ANY server you want to play on. How do i know ? It is because I saw with my own eyes and I don't spew non factual information just to get a rise out of some fanboy.
Let me load into the game and soon I'll get you a screen shot.
Friday night, 23:00 UK. 24:00 Central Europe.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Most overhyped mmo of all time perhaps. It is pretty much a dead zone from levels 1-50 on almost any server and it is barely a year old.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Try like 3 weeks ago I played Einstein. As I said just about dead from 1-50 now on ANY server you want to play on. How do i know ? It is because I saw with my own eyes and I don't spew non factual information just to get a rise out of some fanboy.
Let me load into the game and soon I'll get you a screen shot.
Of what a small handful of people doing an event ? LOL ok...
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Most overhyped mmo of all time perhaps. It is pretty much a dead zone from levels 1-50 on almost any server and it is barely a year old.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Try like 3 weeks ago I played Einstein. As I said just about dead from 1-50 now on ANY server you want to play on. How do i know ? It is because I saw with my own eyes and I don't spew non factual information just to get a rise out of some fanboy.
Let me load into the game and soon I'll get you a screen shot.
Of what a small handful of people doing an event ? LOL ok...
How many people do you need to level up?
Please post a picture of you leveling up in the Open World in other games with a handful of people.
Do you want big mobs of people?
I can post Orr, Frost Gorge Sound, The Queen Pavillion, WvW.
I can post LA.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
GW2 will easily take the claim of Fastest selling mmo in history
This is all out of context really. Blizzard didn't release WoW to the EU until three months after the US release. It didn't have digital sales. It also stopped shipping boxes in the US for several months starting in December 2004 because it wasn't prepared for the success that it was and didn't have the server support in place. The MMO market was much smaller at the time and 500,000 subscribers was pretty much the maximum any company had experienced.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different
i agree its not a fair comparison - comparing numbers from WOWs launch 10 years ago
But you can also state that there is much more competition in the MMO market today than there was in 2004. So while we can give WoW a lot of credit for making the genre more popular, we have to also look at the fact that there are a lot more titles because of this and for GW2 to sell the way they have is a feat. But feel free to discount.
When a genre grows it means more people are playing, which in turn means more people are buying.... Competition means nothing to most gamers, it's not about a specific game it's about a specific type of game. I didn't stop buying other RPG's because Skyrim released. Most folks don't approach games like many on this forum do, in gaming people tend to like both the Redskins and the Cowboys. It's not really a team based mindset.
RPG's are not mmo's.
Most people do not play more than one mmo at a time. If you can play more than one mmo at the same time then you should get a job, if you still can, then get an education, if you still can, then get a life, if you still can, then get married and have kids...
If you can play more than one mmo while working, studying, having a life outside of the computer, being married and with kids then you are f*cking amazing and you need to tell me how you do it!
Most MMO's are played on a consumption basis today, IE do the content, leave, come back when there's more. GW2 actually fits this tendency fairly well. As do F@P titles, which make up a majority of the industry right now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Did I ever say or imply that it did? Why are you turing this into a debate of GW2 vs SWTOR????
Now back to the coment you quoted and then went off topic on....
Are you actually saying box sales means just as much as active player numbers when it comes to MMOs?
I thought server numbers/merges had something to do with players, but if you say otherwise.
A game can have 5000 players in one server and be a success.
A game can have 1 million players and not be a success.
Clearly, selling 3 million copies of a MMORPG is a clear financial success for Arenanet and NCSoft.
Clearly the game is selling the equivalent to 600K+ $15 subs a month and 800K+ boxes a quarter.
I don't know what percentage of players do you think spend $15 or any money at all a month in GW2.
I agree with everything you just said...now back on topic to the post you quoted and then went completely defensive and off topic....are you actually saying boxes sold means just as much as active player numbers in the MMO world?
I swear to god...only on the MMORPG.com forums does this happen to this extent lol.
Originally posted by evilprey don't know about sellings but GW2 is without question best MMO on the market and he was redefinned the genre . Wow was only a better looking Everquest clone
Can you please elaborate on how GW2 "..redefinned the genre.." ?
Did I ever say or imply that it did? Why are you turing this into a debate of GW2 vs SWTOR????
Now back to the coment you quoted and then went off topic on....
Are you actually saying box sales means just as much as active player numbers when it comes to MMOs?
I thought server numbers/merges had something to do with players, but if you say otherwise.
A game can have 5000 players in one server and be a success.
A game can have 1 million players and not be a success.
Clearly, selling 3 million copies of a MMORPG is a clear financial success for Arenanet and NCSoft.
Clearly the game is selling the equivalent to 600K+ $15 subs a month and 800K+ boxes a quarter.
I don't know what percentage of players do you think spend $15 or any money at all a month in GW2.
I agree with everything you just said...now back on topic to the post you quoted and then went completely defensive and off topic....are you actually saying boxes sold means just as much as active player numbers in the MMO world?
I swear to god...only on the MMORPG.com forums does this happen to this extent lol.
For buy to play it's the only metric that means anything. You sell it until sales drop then sell an expansion. Cash shop items are gravy. How many are playing is usually a function of sales but not the ultimate objective.
You see, that is completely inaccurate....Diablo 3 is an online RPG that is buy to play...Blizzard announced active players (1 million unique per day, 3 million unique per month). Don;t hind behind the point that its B2P....its still an online game....they still have active player stactistics....how on earth you can say boxes sold is all that matters for a buy to play MMO and not active community....esp when other buy to play RPGs have done it...is beyond me....
How many are playing may not be the objectve for the company who made the game....but it sure as hell means something for the players who play it or are perhaps thinking of trying it out....
Originally posted by evilprey don't know about sellings but GW2 is without question best MMO on the market and he was redefinned the genre . Wow was only a better looking Everquest clone
Can you please elaborate on how GW2 "..redefinned the genre.." ?
Yeah... they redefined it so much that the EQ Next devs are begging fans not to compare the two on anything else than a surface level.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I never understood why people give Blizzard fans such a hard time, until now. So many sour people in this thread, as if this article is a personal attack on World of Warcraft. Like it or not, Guild Wars 2 was a success. It could crash and burn tomorrow and it will still have been a success, get over it. This doesn't take anything away from Blizzard or World of Warcraft. The Guild Wars 2 fans currently playing the game may have never played a MMO before, let alone left WoW for it. This doesn't affect you, move on.
As for the rest of the argument, you now have people saying "Well I don't judge success by how many boxes bought but by player retention". The truth is nothing is EVER going to satisfy you. As soon as an article is released saying "2.5mil unique account logins every week and growing!" (PURE SPECULATION/EXAGGERATION) it will turn into "Logins don't mean shit! It's all about how many are actually using the cash shop!!! You need money for servers... and stuff!" This is pointless and will just continue to circle. Sometimes you win an argument by walking away, this is one of those times.
Originally posted by evilprey don't know about sellings but GW2 is without question best MMO on the market and he was redefinned the genre . Wow was only a better looking Everquest clone
Can you please elaborate on how GW2 "..redefinned the genre.." ?
Yeah... they redefined it so much that the EQ Next devs are begging fans not to compare the two on anything else than a surface level.....
Because devs love to have their products compared to other games.. who wouldn't love their game to be called a (insert game) clone......
Originally posted by expresso Think Blizzard might disgree. just saying
Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW didn't sell 3 millions within a year..
And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?
Because expansions are additions to an already released game.
Which makes it even more difficult to sell it in huge numbers because it is an expansion. And yet Blizzard does it every time.
It is just very convenient to not count expansion numbers because they make GW2 numbers look bad. I consider every expansion as a game in itself considering the amount of content it adds to already existing game.
That's not the reason for not wanting to count expansion numbers at all. The reason is simply that we're trying to identify the number of individuals who have purchased the game, and the majority of players who buy an expansion also purchased the previous game at an earlier time. There is a huge margin of overlap between the two. If you count the vanilla sales and those of every expansion, you're counting many of the same players several times, which just isn't accurate for what we're trying to figure out.
Players often tout GW1's sales too, which always seem to include every expansion. The same case can and should be made against them as well.
Comments
Did I ever say or imply that it did? Why are you turing this into a debate of GW2 vs SWTOR????
Now back to the coment you quoted and then went off topic on....
Are you actually saying box sales means just as much as active player numbers when it comes to MMOs?
Couple that with all the nerfing of gold grind spots all over the game you have company pushing players towards the gem shop I'd have to agree about the nature of the "course correction".
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yeah... Games don't just have a "change of direction" for no reason..... There is obviously a motive behind it. As much as one would like to think that it is because it is what they thought would be best for players, that would be pretty naive. Like I said though, at least they are trying different things to see if they can bring up the revenue and keep players engaged at the same time.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
This is what has always bugged me about cash shops versus subs. In order for them to make revenue, they have to make visiting the shop an attractive option over playing the game, and the most effective way to do that is by making major systems within the game overly difficult and/or inconvenient for the average player. The game developers for these types of games build systems more around getting you to pay them than around fun for the player.
That is true in f2p games but they also have the benefit of low barrier to entry and constant churn of players. The whole argument p2p, b2p and f2p will have benefits and downside to each business plan. I personally prefer f2p play as I know I'll be paying eventually it all just depends on how much if I stay and I get to try a big slice of the game for free. From the outset knowing how f2p cashshops work I felt Arenanet were being naive to believe they could run the game on the b2p model and a non intrusive cashshop. If the downward trend in revenue continues expect to see the cash shop be more intrusive as time goes on, the gold grind nerfs are one such thing, the event tie ins are another if somewhat non forced but they are time limited things, sort of get it before its gone forever incentives. What you are saying is exactly what the "course correction" is trying achieve without going the full f2p cash shop route.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
And the last time you played was never.
Dude, in 4 days everyone can go into the free trial and exit into queensdale and see zergs roving around - look a level 1-15 area.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Of the many odd things about the Church of GW2, the oddest has to be the reflexive "You've never played GW2 or you too would love it!!111!!one!!!" mantra.
PR machine in full effect for china release.
9months is a strange period to pick. Is that because if you go 1 year you can't make the same claim?
Also why are people comparing WoW to GW2. WoW dwarfed GW2 numbers in a year or so... WoW blew open a much smaller market. WoW was a subscription based game.
MMOs are about longevity, until we get some hard evidence that the game is growing instead of just the typical PR maneuvering we have no proof it is growing.
From what i've seen sales are down 20% from last quarter... and they are offering free trials a year in. Those are not good signs. You can say the server cap increases are a sign of growth, but we have no real figures on those caps, and we know they wouldn't announce if they ever lowered the caps. They can basically change those caps as will (as they have stated) and we wouldn't know what any of their thresholds are.
I thought server numbers/merges had something to do with players, but if you say otherwise.
A game can have 5000 players in one server and be a success.
A game can have 1 million players and not be a success.
Clearly, selling 3 million copies of a MMORPG is a clear financial success for Arenanet and NCSoft.
Clearly the game is selling the equivalent to 600K+ $15 subs a month and 800K+ boxes a quarter.
I don't know what percentage of players do you think spend $15 or any money at all a month in GW2.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Try like 3 weeks ago I played Einstein. As I said just about dead from 1-50 now on ANY server you want to play on. How do i know ? It is because I saw with my own eyes and I don't spew non factual information just to get a rise out of some fanboy.
Are you saying the level 1-50 zones are empty?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Let me load into the game and soon I'll get you a screen shot.
Friday night, 23:00 UK. 24:00 Central Europe.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Of what a small handful of people doing an event ? LOL ok...
How many people do you need to level up?
Please post a picture of you leveling up in the Open World in other games with a handful of people.
Do you want big mobs of people?
I can post Orr, Frost Gorge Sound, The Queen Pavillion, WvW.
I can post LA.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
This is all out of context really. Blizzard didn't release WoW to the EU until three months after the US release. It didn't have digital sales. It also stopped shipping boxes in the US for several months starting in December 2004 because it wasn't prepared for the success that it was and didn't have the server support in place. The MMO market was much smaller at the time and 500,000 subscribers was pretty much the maximum any company had experienced.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Most MMO's are played on a consumption basis today, IE do the content, leave, come back when there's more. GW2 actually fits this tendency fairly well. As do F@P titles, which make up a majority of the industry right now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree with everything you just said...now back on topic to the post you quoted and then went completely defensive and off topic....are you actually saying boxes sold means just as much as active player numbers in the MMO world?
I swear to god...only on the MMORPG.com forums does this happen to this extent lol.
____________________________________________________________
My involvement in this thread history as literally gone as follows:
ME: Claiming to be the fastest selling is all well and good, but they should announce active player
Responder: Ya, but SWTOR failed for XYZ
ME: Thats cool...now back on topic...they need to announce active players and not boxes sold
Responder: ZOMG GW2 is not dead!!, there are all the reason why GW2 is better than SWTOR xxxxxxx
ME: Thats also cool and I agree with you, now back on topic...box sales doesnt matter in the MMO world, only active players
Responder: So you are saying SWTOR server merges doesnt mean they were losing players?????
ME: ....grabs gun and shoots self.....
Can you please elaborate on how GW2 "..redefinned the genre.." ?
You see, that is completely inaccurate....Diablo 3 is an online RPG that is buy to play...Blizzard announced active players (1 million unique per day, 3 million unique per month). Don;t hind behind the point that its B2P....its still an online game....they still have active player stactistics....how on earth you can say boxes sold is all that matters for a buy to play MMO and not active community....esp when other buy to play RPGs have done it...is beyond me....
How many are playing may not be the objectve for the company who made the game....but it sure as hell means something for the players who play it or are perhaps thinking of trying it out....
Yeah... they redefined it so much that the EQ Next devs are begging fans not to compare the two on anything else than a surface level.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I never understood why people give Blizzard fans such a hard time, until now. So many sour people in this thread, as if this article is a personal attack on World of Warcraft. Like it or not, Guild Wars 2 was a success. It could crash and burn tomorrow and it will still have been a success, get over it. This doesn't take anything away from Blizzard or World of Warcraft. The Guild Wars 2 fans currently playing the game may have never played a MMO before, let alone left WoW for it. This doesn't affect you, move on.
As for the rest of the argument, you now have people saying "Well I don't judge success by how many boxes bought but by player retention". The truth is nothing is EVER going to satisfy you. As soon as an article is released saying "2.5mil unique account logins every week and growing!" (PURE SPECULATION/EXAGGERATION) it will turn into "Logins don't mean shit! It's all about how many are actually using the cash shop!!! You need money for servers... and stuff!" This is pointless and will just continue to circle. Sometimes you win an argument by walking away, this is one of those times.
Well done ArenaNet.
Because devs love to have their products compared to other games.. who wouldn't love their game to be called a (insert game) clone......
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
That's not the reason for not wanting to count expansion numbers at all. The reason is simply that we're trying to identify the number of individuals who have purchased the game, and the majority of players who buy an expansion also purchased the previous game at an earlier time. There is a huge margin of overlap between the two. If you count the vanilla sales and those of every expansion, you're counting many of the same players several times, which just isn't accurate for what we're trying to figure out.
Players often tout GW1's sales too, which always seem to include every expansion. The same case can and should be made against them as well.