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So lets talk about this LIMITED ACTON BAR OF 8 SKILLS!!!!!! Just freakin 8 skills!!!!
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
Okay.
So in EQNext the action bar system will be using a limited design to force builds between combat.
4,,, yes I said 4,,, will be weapon skills
And 4,,, yes again I said 4,,,, will be class utilities.
So that's a total of 8 skills at a time.
Sort of like GW1 really. But I remember GW1 getting a lot of heated talk because of that.
Which is why GW2 entered with larger number of advalible skills at a time, while trying to keep its limited action bar design for its previous fans.
Well they also screwed up, by the way they design it with half being weapon skills, and other half being class utilities. That took away basically 25-50% of the freedom of choice when you think about it.
but like I said, GW2 still increased the number of skills you have access to in combat, even if it was done in a way that went over the head of the supporters of GW1's limited action bar.
GW2 featured class mechanics skills. These were skills that were unique to the class you were, and wasnt part of the action bar itself.
like guardians has virtues and engineer has tool belt, etc.
should EQNext also have class mechanics to make things feel more unique and interesting?
otherwise it seems like the game play will just consist of mindless button mashing even worst than GW2, since there will be less things to manage in combat other than cooldowns.
how can such a system be improved? That's what we should be considering. How to improve the limited action bar system.
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I'll have to adapt assuming other elements of the game interest me.
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So in other words, it's like EQ1. I clearly remember haivng only 8 slots to work with back then. It forced me to make choices and decide which skills and spells were the most valuable for whatever I was doing at the time.
What's the problem again?
SOE has stated they want you looking at the in-game combat - not the GUI and icon bars. They do not plan to change their idea on how combat is controlled. There have been at least 77 threads on this same topic....
Perhaps EQN is not being made for you?
SOE May not be making EQN for you!
What about item skills? Do you think boots of the zephyr in their video was clickable? or just always-float?
I feel that items will add additional abilities.
Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.
8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?
I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...
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Returning to original EQ type of set up is a wonderful idea.
You don't have only 8 skills. You actually can have hundreds according to the developers (doing the math that each class has 4 skills and there are 40 or so classes as they mentioned).
But, you can only have 8 active at one time. Wonderful!
I have gotten incredibly annoyed with games these days where 90% of the screen is covered by skill buttons and then I get to see a whole wopping 100x100 pixil box of the actual game because my UI has ate the screen.
As well, the developers showed the ease of actually swapping around your skills, which means we can have ourselves actually have several different builds we enjoy for solo, group, and larger actions. And even then, multiples of those if we wish.
It functions as a framework that supports two major goals.
1st major goal. It limits the ability for players to create a build that both prepares for everything and facerolls all types of encounters... and yet gives them the freedom mix n' match tools.
With the system, if designed right, you get three choices in how to build.
Either spread yourself thin, and tackle safer content.
Min/max in preparation of some specific content you're already familiar with.
Or focus on a build that fits a specific role within a group strategy.
2nd goal. It is a compromise that manages to accommodate two types of players often seen in mmorpgs. The proactive mouse clicker play-style and the reactive key binder play-style.
Because there are only 8 skills, a key binder can activate any of their specific skills with the quickest reaction time possible, and do it all while moving. This facilitates reactive players.
If each skill is designed to perform multiple functions, making it suited to entirely different context sensitive situations (like the mage teleport/blackhole used in demo), then a proactive player who hardly moves, but instead focuses on setups and combos can still do all that while focusing more often on the playing field than on hotbars.
You probably meant Guild Wars 1, since EQN proposed system more closely resembles that found in GW1. And it worked exceedingly well. There are hundreds of builds in GW1 that have been deemed very effective after going through the community vetting system.
It's boring and too simple, too easy to master most likely.
And we know that because people who've actually played the game are telling us that, right?
indeed, no need to have 52 skills on screen and mash buttons in X order for xp, Y order for PvP and Z order for raids... that nonsense needs to die, EQN and even ESO have the right idea here; but i hold my judgement until i put my hands on it.
You know the difference between a rotation and situational skills right?
You see that UI? Yeah his rotation is 6 to 8 skils, but he also has about 20 other utility skills there that can be used when the situation requires it.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
It's MMO exposed, it's like listening to a biased news station, twisting words 24/7.
Im torn on this.
I hate that some mmorpgs I spend the whole game looking at hotbars and cant even recall what a character fighting looks like. Its sad really.
However, I hated the generic GW2 skill system that was over simplified and boring, and ends up just too predictable and spammy.
I really think there is room to make these games combat better, and perhaps games like TES (not the mmo) have it right, you focus on your weapon, blocking, and timing hits without fancy shit to spam relegating a standard weapon attack as useless as a well...weapon...and not some skill conjuring sword that cant hurt a fly on its own.
Darkfall kind of does this with limited skills and the fact they are "expensive" to cast, so you spend most if not all the game looking at the character fighting, which is how it should be.
As for hotbar games, they can be fun when complex, but part of me wishes you could just craft a few "attack moves" using individual skills as pieces in the puzzle and you just execute the whole move as one rather than click, wait for GCD, click, rinse repeat.
No im not talking macroing either, needs to be a way to just makes three moves using pieces of a puzzle that are individual skills and then the rest...well use your sword its a weapon and use to kill thinks without fancy magic forcing you to hop into the sky, spin around like a ballerina and conjure sparkly effects as you..swing the weapon at something.
That is the soul of the problem in my opinion. In vanilla wow you had maybe 40 skills for mage, for you only really used a handful of them This class system emphasizes you are only going to put into your hot bars the few skill you are really going to use in a given situation. A good player will swap classes frequently before going into combat, after assessing what the situation is. Could be fun.
One thing I like about EQN's take on it vs GW2s is...
There's going to be a boatload more skills available for you vs GW2. Maybe not any more at any one time, but overall there's going to be more choice.
In GW2 you had several different weapons but since there were talent trees/traits (another thing that needs to go), you had to pick things that generally set you up towards using a particular weapon or two. So the other weapons weren't even options, or they were condition damage instead of direct damage which you weren't built for etc.
I think there should be a lot more play here especially once you've built up quite a few different classes.
Well as a warrior in GW2 most of the time I use my great sword for killing multiple mobs at the same time but when the situation changes like facing a champion boss on my own I switch to rifle and attack him at a range so he hardly gets to touch me otherwise I would die fast. If I used Greatsword I would not stand a chance even tho it does do more damage to the boss but rifle has more survivability. And the rifle has totally different types of skills from the sword like crippling the enemy.
You are locked in by your class and weapon to 4 attacks based on the class you choose to enter an encounter with and the choose of two weapons allowed by that class.... that is all you have. your four survival abilities are also dictated by your class.
Here is the problem, and it all boils down to how you like to play an MMO...
If you enter an encounter, solo or in a group, and that encounter is set up for a specific type of combat and your class does not match the encounter... you will either have to run or die... change classes and come back until your get a good configuration to beat the encounter. 4 or less survival abilities depending on the class you chose... not much to think about there, react or die, and if your unlucky, your build wont have the tools you need and its WIPE TIME! try again.
In minimal UI games like this, abilities are replaced by roll left... roll right... to avoid damage. This style combat reduces the amount of thinking and increases the need for twitch reflexes.
In games like EQ, EQ2, WoW ect.. You were given a large amount of abilities, enough to survive any encounter, it was up to the player to use the correct abilities at the right times to survive.... You died it was your fault, or you were just to low for the encounter you had no reason for being there.
EQNext chose twitch DPS, smash smash roll left smash smash.
I think a smart developer would increase the hot bar to 12 abilities and allow true multi-classing. (skill based if they really had balls)
Elder Scrolls Online will have a better skill based class system, but is also going with the twitch style UI combat. Though it looks more visceral.
If I could dream.. I would love a game that gave me 20 abilities and a smart AI, plus the roll right and roll left avoidance twitches. That would be like PVP in DAOC or EQ2
I have no problem with the limited number of slots as long as there are a good variety of skills to choose from to put in those slots. I like the idea of experimenting with different skill combinations.
A problem that I have with GW2 is that you quickly unlock the few skills for a particular weapon and that's it for skills for that weapon.
It sounded like in EQNext, the weapon skills change based on which classes you are using. So if you discover and unlock new classes as you explore the world, it sounds like you discover and unlock new weapon skills.
Sounds goods to me so far, although we still don't know all of the details for sure.