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Why do gamers think they know "what is best" for a game more than it's creators?
mmoguy43
Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
Is it wrong to think you know how a game should be(differently) if you have no experience in making games? Yes, you are the ones to play them and can point out what you like or don't like. But how can you say you know their product better than they do ,enough to say _ is a flaw?
Comments
because everyone is a game designer
It's similar to sports fans and their respective teams
But it's not yours.
They are the designers, they care the creators it's their creation.
How about if, say, in the original EQ or Original UO if they designers showed their work to players and then then the players said "no, the game should be like 'this'!"
They can design and create whatever they want. Additionally, they are like us in that they might not want to create the same thing all the time so when they finally get a chance to spread their wings they want to explore and create.
However, it is a product and they are selling these games to a demographic so they need to be clear as to who these customers actually are.
I don't envy them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's simple actually... the people that determine a success or failure of a product are the customers, not the creators. It's not important how many people on the development team love the game. It's important how many paying customers do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
We each know what we like. We each want our dream game.
Many of us are armchair developers who are full of ideas but lack the drive/talent/resources to take our theories and make something of them, so we are left speculating about how games could have been made a little differently to make them closer to our visions. We also have the freedom to be selfish in our own dreams - we can ignore tradeoffs if we don't want to make, ignore any obstacles we want to just assume can be overcome with a magic wand.
The tricky part is reigning in the creeping sense of ownership we start to feel over our favourite games (or even the industry as a whole). That said, I've always been fascinated with EvE's approach - creating a formal player-elected body to advise on priorities and help communicate back and forth between the devs and players.
Obviously, an outside observer isn't always going to have valuable input, but at the same time, if a system is flawed, I don't think you need to be a game designer to identify that. Many here have seen numerous concepts and systems either succeed, or crash and burn, and their opinions derive from that.
In my opinion, a lot of criticism is based on having only partial information (I'm certainly guilty of this on occasion). I think the problem is that people are quick for the knee-jerk reaction and quick to assume the creator/developer is clueless rather then considering there is more info that might clarify things. Other things to consider might be personal preferences and pay style as well as the fact that maybe a person isn't a games target audience in the fist place. For many, 'perception is reality' and, until something changes their perception, everyone is going to hear about it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
They don't know what's best for a game per se but they can know what effects them negatively and they are allowed to express their opinion same as you.
It's just that some people can't get past that one thing and look at the rest of the game objectively,everything is colored by the thing they don't like.
The real problem is that a small group will continue to repeat their exact same opinions and start new threads constantly to restate those opinions in slightly different words constantly for the next few years.But that is also their right,even if it's annoying and immature.It's also something we all get caught up doing at some stage to greater and lesser degrees.
And why do some devs think they know what's best for a game and when released that game tanks.
I'm sure you can answer this question, right?
Because in most cases, the games are not developed by the developers, but rather the suits that hold all of the money. Decisions are quite often made based on potential profits, and less based on innovative system features.
So in some cases, the gamers themselves actually do know what's best for a game. I feel bad for most MMO gamers out there. Most of them want a great game and they are given a game that can turn the biggest pofit, safely. Gamers don't care about risk. It's not their money.
Just because someone's vision fails, it does not make their critics' visions successful.
When it comes to things people are passionate about, the less one knows about the subject matter, the easier it looks to them and the more they feel they are qualified to undertake or judge it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
agree entirely
I partially agree here, being that everyone wants what they want, then when they don't get exactly what they want the game is called fail, when we all know there is no way to appease every crowd with one game. However, we are the ones paying the money and depending on what the game is doing...our input is sometimes more important than that of the dev making the game.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Of course we gamers are often not enough grounded in reality. If you actually want to make a game you need an elaborated plan and not some cloudy concepts and it must appeal to a mass audience.
It's also not only about having the right ideas. We would surely see much more great games if the designers could turn their ideas into games just like that. There are many factors that can influence the outcome. Publishers and investors tend to be super conservative when it comes to new ideas that have not jet been proven. And then you have to consider that there are several hundred people working on one game and all of them probably have a differed perception of the project. So the initial concept always get watered down, and is probably often quite differed from what the designers wanted in the beginning.
Generally all players do know what's best...for them.
Developers understand the whole market better, but they aren't targeting each individual gamer's tastes. For example, there are plenty of little ways I criticize WOW even though the game as a whole largely appeals to me and others -- and this happens because WOW wasn't custom-tailored to my specific set of expectations, but to the broader expectations of a very large audience.
The only exception to individuals knowing what's better for individuals is completely new products that haven't even occurred to those players yet. Similar to business execs, people tend to only understand what they've liked before, not what they might like in the future.
Edit: Actually I guess this is a little too player-favoring overall now that I re-read it. Players also make a lot of suggestions for things they would end up hating in games, so it's not like people always understand with perfect clarity what would be best for them.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The suits that hold all of the money aren't making any money if they don't develop games for gamers. I think the biggest reason that new games seem to be one copy after another is being most gamers are easily duped by marketing departments into buying products that they don't really want. How many people on this board bought Guild Wars 2 just because of the hype machine and now can't stand the game? There's something to be said for having patience and waiting to read reviews from actual gamers before buying into a game because it seems to be the next cool thing based upon a bunch of trailers.
Because people are stupid OP. I remember when I was in my 20's..I thought I knew everything too.
It wasn't until I grew up that I understood how little I actually knew and that the decisions I disagreed with were actually the right ones.
Because developers have too limited time and limited education to be able to analyze every aspect of their game. Gamers can on other hand specialize into certain aspects of the game and do a better analysis of that particular aspect.
Quantity vs quality, in other words.
"Good" and "bad" are subjetive terms, so when most people tell about some game being bad usually it means "I don't like it".
Of course there are games that are horrible, bad programed, not cared about by their own creators, but even those games will be liked by someone.
Problem here is that if people don't like your game they will not buy it, simply. So, yes, gamers are entitled to complaint about what they didn't like in a game.
They are the costumer. And the costumer is always right.
Its not even important that the gamers love the game. FTP churns through so many people. In fact its more important that the game wins its psycological warfare on you to get you to spend more money in the cash shop or pay for subs you don't use.
Games are not made for the gamer anymore.
Every single person in this thread who thinks they know what's best for the games, without knowing a thing about game design, let alone MMO game design, are delusional. You are the same people who think they could run the country better than those who spend their entire lives doing so.
If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Every idea that you come up with while taking a dump isn't a good idea that will make the game better. You don't have the facts, you don't know the technology. You don't know anything.
It's fun to speculate, but please don't take yourselves seriously. Your ideas are dumb.
Everyone knows what they like and wouldnt like in a game.
What most people, here, cant do is separate their fantasy MMO from reality and realize that what they want isnt what a vast majority of the MMO community wants.
I personally dont like the cartoonie graphics of EQ:N, although I find it much less offensive that say Wildstars. I hate the god armors and god weapons look too, although from what I seen so far it isnt that bad. Im not even keen on most of the "epic" combat animations Ive seen so far, its a little too anime, but not as bad as Black Deserts either.
But I realize just cause I dont like the aesthetics it doesnt mean the game is going to be bad.
Or, that I have to make it some kind of crusade to let everyone know my opinion over and over, sometimes in a most childish way.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."