I'm stoked to try this game, but as an SWG vet....
You can't have SWG crafting, or better, without SWG's complex stat-based resource system. And by "system", I mean the whole thing, including the dynamic resource spawns with varying quality stats.
SWG's crafting wasn't just about the act of putting things together in a crafting interface. It was an entire line of gameplay that many people did FULL TIME. I was one of those people who had a dedicated crafter toon in addition to my dedicated combat toon. One of the things you had to manage as a crafter, included not only your own mining gear, but also relationships with other resource gathers and resellers.
I'll be glad to see that the EQN crafting system may be much more interesting than the crappy tacked-on crafting in today's mainstream themeparks, but to claim it will be "better than SWG" has all the makings of pure hyperbole. If you never played SWG, I'll just put it this way: SWG's crafting and resource system touched all aspects of gameplay, and it was much bigger and more complex than most entire MMOs that exist today.
The best crafters on SWG servers were known by name and sought after for having the best stuff in their category of crafting. They did this by having the best resources and crafting machines, and maintaining the right relationships.
You see, kids, this is why people like me have a hard time with today's theme park games. Games like SWG and some others were deep and rich and full of systems that encouraged cooperation and relationships with other players. I could write about this one aspect of SWG for a week.
Side Note: my combat toon, for about a year, spent half his time tracking, hunting and gathering high-quality (if available) crafting resources. I made a fortune selling things like good quality hides, meats, bones, milk, eggs, and enhancement drops to other crafters, and I had a blast hunting down the creatures while doing other things. I loved going out and using my Ranger skills to track and hunt rare elite mobs for their drops. I would get on the forums for my server, and take contracts from various crafters. I had a blast making relationships with other players, as well as keeping detailed notes about where the good resources were at any given time. Even jusy *gathering* resources was a gameplay path.
Not to mention that you had to run around to multiple different PLANETS to do all the gathering. Just like the PS4 setup and the all in one classes, this is just another easy mode 'everyone wins' game.
Heavy focus on player crafting in a game that sells currency? They'd better overcome the same issue GW2 has with crafting. It's just easier, cheaper and quicker to get gold and buy what you want than to craft it. I don't care how well done or extensive the crafting is, if it's undermined by the cash shop driven economy, it's all pointless.
This. If you can buy your way to the best crafted gear then there is zero reason to play a crafter. Might as well craft stuff IRL, make money, and buy stuff in game.
Good crafting can not happen with a cash shop.
This includes buying cosmetic stuff as long as anything from the cash shop can be traded, it will invalidate crafting.
This. If you can buy your way to the best crafted gear then there is zero reason to play a crafter. Might as well craft stuff IRL, make money, and buy stuff in game.
Crafting is pointless in EVE? This is news to me.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
This sounds awesome, can't wait to learn more about it.
Do you want us all to start laughing now, or give you a few moments to prepare?
Forced to agree with Loopback1199^ on this one, don't believe a word of it until you are actually using it and then expect it to change when the forum whiners start crying that it is too hard for them. True story.
If it comes to fruition then great! I hope it does, but I am in no way expecting anything said today about this game to hold water in 2 YEARS when it releases.
I'm sorry who created SWG again? That being said it's not far off to think they cannot recreate what they already have. I'd see your points if we were talking about some indie dev team that wouldn't have the wealth of first hand knowledge that came with actually making the crafting system themselves, but we are talking about the original creators here, are we not?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
This sounds awesome, can't wait to learn more about it.
Do you want us all to start laughing now, or give you a few moments to prepare?
Forced to agree with Loopback1199^ on this one, don't believe a word of it until you are actually using it and then expect it to change when the forum whiners start crying that it is too hard for them. True story.
If it comes to fruition then great! I hope it does, but I am in no way expecting anything said today about this game to hold water in 2 YEARS when it releases.
I'm sorry who created SWG again? That being said it's not far off to think they cannot recreate what they already have. I'd see your points if we were talking about some indie dev team that wouldn't have the wealth of first hand knowledge that came with actually making the crafting system themselves, but we are talking about the original creators here, are we not?
We're also talking about SOE and their past reputation with games INCLUDING swg.
Well I specifically remember Chris Cao saying how how he was going to bring the great guild functionality seen in EQ2 to DCUO... and clearly that never happened. So really, you have to wait and see,
One thing that I doubt we will see is the ability to have player run shops as opposed to a AH. This is something that gets overlooked, but I think it was a HUGE part of what made SWG's crafting work so well. Not only was there a very diverse and deep crafting system, but the ability to have shops made things more personalized. It allowed players to band together and make some "destination" malls, and allowed crafters to showcase their wears. I know there were several times that I would pop into a shop to get the item I was after and would end up looking at some of the other vendors and making additional purchases.
Unfortunately I think that this is something we will be lucky to see ever again, because the economy has been watered down to the AH model.
Not sure if it is still available but there is a game called Planet Explorers. It uses a procedurally generated voxel world and voxel crafting. I highly recommend taking a look at it to understand the possibilities of it. Combine what you can do in that game with the tech shown for EQN I am very confident that the crafting system will be something spectacular.
Resource gathering I expect to work in the same way. If you dig you can find components like dirt, various rocks, metals and using these components to can then make items in the world. For example, did a hole, gather some granite from the hole, use the granite to make a granite wall around the hole.
Crafting is done using voxels too. So you can go into the editor, select granite wall and modify it to make a copy. Now you can choose to put that new wall down with the right materials. Better yet, you can design a structure from materials and save it as a blueprint and as long as you have the materials you can then place that item made from the blueprint as a complete item. So you could make a blueprint of a house foundation, or even include the house to go on top of the foundation...it really is quite spectacular.
But it is better if you take a look for yourself. Planet Explorers...
Not sure if it is still available but there is a game called Planet Explorers. It uses a procedurally generated voxel world and voxel crafting. I highly recommend taking a look at it to understand the possibilities of it. Combine what you can do in that game with the tech shown for EQN I am very confident that the crafting system will be something spectacular.
Resource gathering I expect to work in the same way. If you dig you can find components like dirt, various rocks, metals and using these components to can then make items in the world. For example, did a hole, gather some granite from the hole, use the granite to make a granite wall around the hole.
Crafting is done using voxels too. So you can go into the editor, select granite wall and modify it to make a copy. Now you can choose to put that new wall down with the right materials. Better yet, you can design a structure from materials and save it as a blueprint and as long as you have the materials you can then place that item made from the blueprint as a complete item. So you could make a blueprint of a house foundation, or even include the house to go on top of the foundation...it really is quite spectacular.
But it is better if you take a look for yourself. Planet Explorers...
If I dig a hole I should hope I at least find some rocks and dirt... lol!
This. If you can buy your way to the best crafted gear then there is zero reason to play a crafter. Might as well craft stuff IRL, make money, and buy stuff in game.
Crafting is pointless in EVE? This is news to me.
Yes it works in EVE, but there are several reasons why it does and why it won't work anywhere else.
EVE had 5 years to establish an in-game economy before any kind of RMT was introduced. When it was, the value of real currency was incredibly weak compared to ISK. Theoretically, EVE is P2W. The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because it would take the monthly budget of a small country to make that happen. And since there is nothing in EVE that you can trade that is tied to EVE's economy, currency ratios are pretty static. In game's Like Anarchy where there also was an established economy before a Cash Shop was introduced, The economy went bullshit out of control. Because were trade-able items. This means the value of real money could be tied to something in the game and thus increase the value of real money against Anarchy's economy. Real money's value would fluctuate based on the inherent value of tradeable items in the game.
Eve's system was also not set up to be an item store. It was set up to re-monetize the mediocre playerbase to support the entire game. EVE's PLEX system is littel more than a pyramid scheme. (Except this one actually works) In a time where most games struggle to keep players with a single active subscription, EVE has figure out how to get multiples from each. It's brilliant for EVE. But for anyone else, it simply won't work. Eve has several hundred thousand active subscriptions. But factor out multiple acccounts and you have a fraction of that number for unique players using them. So, unless your new game trying to emulate EVE can command multiple accounts from a smaller number of players, you are going to end up with a nice game with barely a 6 figure player base. In today's market no publisher is going to go after that.
Are weapons and armor made out of voxels too? So could a crafter create a custom looking sword out of virtual rubble?
If they can, then I can already see how much worse this game will get when the cartoons start carrying around 10 foot swords in 1 hand, while the huge shoulder pads now dominate half the screen.
I hope its something like this: Chunk of copper (27 quality, 44 magic, 87 something else) that will keep giving you the same stats in say a given area which you will use to craft something to a certain maximum level it could reach with the given stats available. Move to another area, or even after a certain about of time, the stats change.
This is how I think it will be: Chunk of copper (+5 all damage, attunes weapon to lighting damage). The +5 damage will vary in number and possibly more/different + stats for 'raid' drops.
If I dig a hole I should hope I at least find some rocks and dirt... lol!
Depending on what you are interacting with determines what materials you can gather. So you might find a rich seam of a precious metal and the only way you would be able to get to it would be to find it through digging. Then you would follow the seam and it might only be a few items or a huge find. Think the American Gold rush...someone finds a rich seam of gold and everyone and their dog flocks to the location if the information gets out. It is the same for every single item in the world. Break down a wall and you get some of the materials that were used to make the wall. Chop down a tree and get the wood, and depending on what type of tree it is differing qualities.
I really think if you think the system sucks that you haven't quite grasped the potential. That or you are just negative because you can't bare to see others happy with it. Either way, your problem.
I hope its something like this: Chunk of copper (27 quality, 44 magic, 87 something else) that will keep giving you the same stats in say a given area which you will use to craft something to a certain maximum level it could reach with the given stats available. Move to another area, or even after a certain about of time, the stats change.
This is how I think it will be: Chunk of copper (+5 all damage, attunes weapon to lighting damage). The +5 damage will vary in number and possibly more/different + stats for 'raid' drops.
Well they compared it to SWG so yes I think it will be something like that. As I mentioned in a previous post, for things like metals I expect there will be the opportunity to find rare seams of high quality materials. Finding these rare materials will encourage exploration. Head to the mountains, start digging a tunnel and then drop a mine shaft. Oops the mine shaft just opened up into a cavern filled with old ruins, time to explore. Double oops it is filled with undead.
With a totally destructible environment it not only means that combat will allow some truly amazing tactics to be used, like taking out bridges or dropping a cliff on someone but also means that we can interact with the environment in amazing detail. Add the fact that I am hoping the crafting system also uses the same construct and so you can gather materials and build them into amazing items that stay in the world...till they get destroyed or wear out.
Also, when they mentioned the mechanics of landmark they talked about going out and flagging a piece of land and then setting rules for access. I expect this to play a big part in how we can interact with the environment. So you plant a flag and make an area of land your own and can build upon it. So in theory you could wander down a road, plant a flag next to it and then build an Inn...I just love the potential the game has.
This. If you can buy your way to the best crafted gear then there is zero reason to play a crafter. Might as well craft stuff IRL, make money, and buy stuff in game.
Crafting is pointless in EVE? This is news to me.
If the only thing they sold was game time it would work.
But I predict EQ next will sell more then a plex equivalent in a cash shop.
This sounds awesome, can't wait to learn more about it.
Do you want us all to start laughing now, or give you a few moments to prepare?
Forced to agree with Loopback1199^ on this one, don't believe a word of it until you are actually using it and then expect it to change when the forum whiners start crying that it is too hard for them. True story.
If it comes to fruition then great! I hope it does, but I am in no way expecting anything said today about this game to hold water in 2 YEARS when it releases.
I'm sorry who created SWG again? That being said it's not far off to think they cannot recreate what they already have. I'd see your points if we were talking about some indie dev team that wouldn't have the wealth of first hand knowledge that came with actually making the crafting system themselves, but we are talking about the original creators here, are we not?
To answer your question: Raph Koster was the designer of the systems in SWG, including the crafting, and he is LONG gone from SOE.
A company is its people, and while the name on the wall might be the same, almost none of the same people that made SWG's crafting any good, are even with SOE anymore.
This sounds awesome, can't wait to learn more about it.
Do you want us all to start laughing now, or give you a few moments to prepare?
Forced to agree with Loopback1199^ on this one, don't believe a word of it until you are actually using it and then expect it to change when the forum whiners start crying that it is too hard for them. True story.
If it comes to fruition then great! I hope it does, but I am in no way expecting anything said today about this game to hold water in 2 YEARS when it releases.
I'm sorry who created SWG again? That being said it's not far off to think they cannot recreate what they already have. I'd see your points if we were talking about some indie dev team that wouldn't have the wealth of first hand knowledge that came with actually making the crafting system themselves, but we are talking about the original creators here, are we not?
To answer your question: Raph Koster was the designer of the systems in SWG, including the crafting, and he is LONG gone from SOE.
A company is its people, and while the name on the wall might be the same, almost none of the same people that made SWG's crafting any good, are even with SOE anymore.
Most people who were involved in SWG and EQ were left or sacked by SOE long time ago, many went to other MMO studios in Austin like Bioware or Trion or move on to other field like Mr. Koster.
I wish SOE let brad mcquaid handle Everquest Next, the man might screwed up badly with Vanguard but he has a vision undoubtedly,
Comments
Not to mention that you had to run around to multiple different PLANETS to do all the gathering. Just like the PS4 setup and the all in one classes, this is just another easy mode 'everyone wins' game.
This. If you can buy your way to the best crafted gear then there is zero reason to play a crafter. Might as well craft stuff IRL, make money, and buy stuff in game.
Good crafting can not happen with a cash shop.
This includes buying cosmetic stuff as long as anything from the cash shop can be traded, it will invalidate crafting.
Basically, as long as you purchase one of the following from the cash shop it will completely undermine the crafting system:
1 Items or currency that can be exchanged to and from crafters.
2 Crafting Mats.
3 Items of comparable power.
4 Cosmetic items with same model (other models....might be ok).
Since I have not seen a cash shop that would not offer one of those.....I highly doubt the crafting is going to be at all good.....
Crafting is pointless in EVE? This is news to me.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I'm sorry who created SWG again? That being said it's not far off to think they cannot recreate what they already have. I'd see your points if we were talking about some indie dev team that wouldn't have the wealth of first hand knowledge that came with actually making the crafting system themselves, but we are talking about the original creators here, are we not?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
We're also talking about SOE and their past reputation with games INCLUDING swg.
Well I specifically remember Chris Cao saying how how he was going to bring the great guild functionality seen in EQ2 to DCUO... and clearly that never happened. So really, you have to wait and see,
One thing that I doubt we will see is the ability to have player run shops as opposed to a AH. This is something that gets overlooked, but I think it was a HUGE part of what made SWG's crafting work so well. Not only was there a very diverse and deep crafting system, but the ability to have shops made things more personalized. It allowed players to band together and make some "destination" malls, and allowed crafters to showcase their wears. I know there were several times that I would pop into a shop to get the item I was after and would end up looking at some of the other vendors and making additional purchases.
Unfortunately I think that this is something we will be lucky to see ever again, because the economy has been watered down to the AH model.
Not sure if it is still available but there is a game called Planet Explorers. It uses a procedurally generated voxel world and voxel crafting. I highly recommend taking a look at it to understand the possibilities of it. Combine what you can do in that game with the tech shown for EQN I am very confident that the crafting system will be something spectacular.
Resource gathering I expect to work in the same way. If you dig you can find components like dirt, various rocks, metals and using these components to can then make items in the world. For example, did a hole, gather some granite from the hole, use the granite to make a granite wall around the hole.
Crafting is done using voxels too. So you can go into the editor, select granite wall and modify it to make a copy. Now you can choose to put that new wall down with the right materials. Better yet, you can design a structure from materials and save it as a blueprint and as long as you have the materials you can then place that item made from the blueprint as a complete item. So you could make a blueprint of a house foundation, or even include the house to go on top of the foundation...it really is quite spectacular.
But it is better if you take a look for yourself. Planet Explorers...
If I dig a hole I should hope I at least find some rocks and dirt... lol!
Yes it works in EVE, but there are several reasons why it does and why it won't work anywhere else.
EVE had 5 years to establish an in-game economy before any kind of RMT was introduced. When it was, the value of real currency was incredibly weak compared to ISK. Theoretically, EVE is P2W. The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because it would take the monthly budget of a small country to make that happen. And since there is nothing in EVE that you can trade that is tied to EVE's economy, currency ratios are pretty static. In game's Like Anarchy where there also was an established economy before a Cash Shop was introduced, The economy went bullshit out of control. Because were trade-able items. This means the value of real money could be tied to something in the game and thus increase the value of real money against Anarchy's economy. Real money's value would fluctuate based on the inherent value of tradeable items in the game.
Eve's system was also not set up to be an item store. It was set up to re-monetize the mediocre playerbase to support the entire game. EVE's PLEX system is littel more than a pyramid scheme. (Except this one actually works) In a time where most games struggle to keep players with a single active subscription, EVE has figure out how to get multiples from each. It's brilliant for EVE. But for anyone else, it simply won't work. Eve has several hundred thousand active subscriptions. But factor out multiple acccounts and you have a fraction of that number for unique players using them. So, unless your new game trying to emulate EVE can command multiple accounts from a smaller number of players, you are going to end up with a nice game with barely a 6 figure player base. In today's market no publisher is going to go after that.
Are weapons and armor made out of voxels too? So could a crafter create a custom looking sword out of virtual rubble?
If they can, then I can already see how much worse this game will get when the cartoons start carrying around 10 foot swords in 1 hand, while the huge shoulder pads now dominate half the screen.
I hope its something like this: Chunk of copper (27 quality, 44 magic, 87 something else) that will keep giving you the same stats in say a given area which you will use to craft something to a certain maximum level it could reach with the given stats available. Move to another area, or even after a certain about of time, the stats change.
This is how I think it will be: Chunk of copper (+5 all damage, attunes weapon to lighting damage). The +5 damage will vary in number and possibly more/different + stats for 'raid' drops.
Depending on what you are interacting with determines what materials you can gather. So you might find a rich seam of a precious metal and the only way you would be able to get to it would be to find it through digging. Then you would follow the seam and it might only be a few items or a huge find. Think the American Gold rush...someone finds a rich seam of gold and everyone and their dog flocks to the location if the information gets out. It is the same for every single item in the world. Break down a wall and you get some of the materials that were used to make the wall. Chop down a tree and get the wood, and depending on what type of tree it is differing qualities.
I really think if you think the system sucks that you haven't quite grasped the potential. That or you are just negative because you can't bare to see others happy with it. Either way, your problem.
Well they compared it to SWG so yes I think it will be something like that. As I mentioned in a previous post, for things like metals I expect there will be the opportunity to find rare seams of high quality materials. Finding these rare materials will encourage exploration. Head to the mountains, start digging a tunnel and then drop a mine shaft. Oops the mine shaft just opened up into a cavern filled with old ruins, time to explore. Double oops it is filled with undead.
With a totally destructible environment it not only means that combat will allow some truly amazing tactics to be used, like taking out bridges or dropping a cliff on someone but also means that we can interact with the environment in amazing detail. Add the fact that I am hoping the crafting system also uses the same construct and so you can gather materials and build them into amazing items that stay in the world...till they get destroyed or wear out.
Also, when they mentioned the mechanics of landmark they talked about going out and flagging a piece of land and then setting rules for access. I expect this to play a big part in how we can interact with the environment. So you plant a flag and make an area of land your own and can build upon it. So in theory you could wander down a road, plant a flag next to it and then build an Inn...I just love the potential the game has.
If the only thing they sold was game time it would work.
But I predict EQ next will sell more then a plex equivalent in a cash shop.
To answer your question: Raph Koster was the designer of the systems in SWG, including the crafting, and he is LONG gone from SOE.
A company is its people, and while the name on the wall might be the same, almost none of the same people that made SWG's crafting any good, are even with SOE anymore.
Most people who were involved in SWG and EQ were left or sacked by SOE long time ago, many went to other MMO studios in Austin like Bioware or Trion or move on to other field like Mr. Koster.
I wish SOE let brad mcquaid handle Everquest Next, the man might screwed up badly with Vanguard but he has a vision undoubtedly,