Yep. Final proof for me that Smed can't be trusted. Btw looks like the only "sandbox" building part is the separate app EQ Landmark. Double deception FTW
That Smedley. The way he one-shot whirlwinded hundreds of twitter followers at once made the trolling look face-roll.
did you guys really think a game this massive in the making would actually go for a more niche audience? SOE is going for broke and putting a lot of money into this game.
that should have told you right then and there that PVP will not be FFA and open world, they might have servers that have FFA open world PVP but it will not be the core ruleset.
should be 2 diff type of servers one where you fight the computer one where we fight real people for them castle quest things
If their PvP server was guild vs guild where we could fight other people over castles, then I would love that. I just don't see them going in two very different directions when it comes to server types. Creating a way for players to control castles on one server (PvP), but denying that on another (pve) wouldn't sit well with the PvE servers.
They could do it though, just give the PvP servers a way to control castles/cities so that resources won went to guilds etc. They are after all expecting no 2 servers to look exactly alike in terms of how the cities and npcs look.
What is the point in having all the assets destructible if your not going to have large scale PVP to take advantage of it. If there is not going to be at least one full on PVP server with proper PVP mechanics then a lot of people will be very disappointed.
The fact that it has cartoon graphics is bad enough.. still we have to wait and see.
Originally posted by mos0811 Originally posted by DocBrodyOriginally posted by mos0811Originally posted by techninezOriginally posted by bubbabillthe guy talking did mention 'Servers" as he was talking. so wondering if they are just like the rest of the mmo's and have pve and pvp servers
it would be silly of them not to have even one server that was full pvp just so they can see what happens i know id role that realm.A PvP server would still be PvP with no rewards. We need an asset destruction/territory control server where PvP actually means something. But that has to be built from the ground up and I just don't see that in EQN. I'm disheartened about the PvP, but oh well I come to expect that from devs because they have become greedy instead of building a niche game.forget it. It's another mass market title with some fancy tech, but definitely no sandbox MMO.Well good luck sharing the same type of audience again and again with the other three dozens of similiar titles.Look mobs even telegraph their attacks! Boy how exciting!No territory control no player driven world, bore fest, no money from me.Minecraft is not sandbox when it comes to mmoRPGs. The historical definition of a sandbox mmoRPG was always about PvP, which is why so many PvP player thought this could be the holy grail of PvP games. I agree with you Doc, that this is nothing like a traditional mmoRPG sandbox.
Yes EQN has some great tools that players can destroy or build with, but those tools don't make a sandbox alone. Without the ability to kill other players there is no sandbox.
Please show us this historical definition. I mean, it's a definition, so it should be written down somewhere, right? No? Then you're just making up your own personal definition of "Sandbox".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Anyway, there are going to be multiple servers. It's not going to be one big world, so I think it's safe to assume that there are going to be a variety of PvP styles available, depending on what people want. I would say assuming there are enough people to support each of the PvP styles they can think up, but they're going to have 200 EQ:L servers, so I don't think spinning up another, separate server for the different populations of PvP aficionados is going to be a problem.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm still holding out hope for it being open world PVP... But admit it doesn't look too promising at the moment.
On the other hand, the fact that they didn't really talk about it could have been to avoid distracting fans with something like that when what they really wanted to do was generate some excitement around stuff like the voxels, horizontal progression etc... The things that really make the game different.
One detail that was mentioned multiple times in the presentation was the fact that the server tracks every single choice you make wether it be good or evil.
This detail would allow any type of pvp to be allowed as part of the core ruleset and still have a fully functional game..
Greifers would dig a hole so deep for themselves factionally they would probably consider rerolling after the damage has been done to their character.
The fact that it wasn't covered at all means to me that anything is still possible and would definately be another emergent feature and that could be reasonably controlled thru the server tracking of your toon.
Originally posted by Bidwood Thanks lizardbones.I'm still holding out hope for it being open world PVP... But admit it doesn't look too promising at the moment.On the other hand, the fact that they didn't really talk about it could have been to avoid distracting fans with something like that when what they really wanted to do was generate some excitement around stuff like the voxels, horizontal progression etc... The things that really make the game different.
There is no reason they can't have OW PvP severs. There's no reason for them to not have OW PvP servers. There have always been plenty enough people interested in OW PvP for developers to have OW PvP servers, and EQN will have multiple servers, each tracking its own path and changes depending on what the players do.
Plus, as Saxx0n said, the game tracks all the stuff the players do. If it can keep track of all the interactions between players and the NPCs, then there's no reason to think it can't keep track of smaller scale stuff between players. Interactions between players may affect interactions with NPCs through Story Bricks. There is a lot of really interesting things they could do on top of the OW PvP.
Smedley said, "Yes" to everything anyone has brought up about the game. While the way they are doing it might not be what people wanted or expected, one of the things he said, "Yes" to was OW PvP.
I think it'll be in there somewhere. I also think it will be a better implementation than say, WoW. Which isn't saying a whole lot, but still, better is better.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
ROFL svann. I also thought about the "dig a hole" under someone but was picturing their house.
Saxxon and lizardbones... If they do have ow PvP and it is only on certain servers I really hope they go the extra mile to do things like that, e.g. have player interactions factor into karma that affects what you can do in the game. They said the paladin class would be off limits to people who did a lot of evil for example.
So here is Terry Michaels acknowledging that they haven't really said anything about the PvP system but they will soon.
When asked to at least confirm if it is open world, he pauses and evades the question.
My guess is... Yes it is open world PVP. But they didn't want to talk about that in the beginning because it would turn off fans of the franchise. The way they did it, they got to generate a lot of excitement around some of the more special new features like voxels, horizontal progression etc.
But with confirmation that most of the world can be destroyed I don't see any way around it.
One encouraging thing to limit griefing is something I read elsewhere that the server records every interaction k between players and NPCs and your "karma" affects what you can do in game. They could use this to make unprovoked PKing unattractive.
I'm still holding out hope for it being open world PVP... But admit it doesn't look too promising at the moment.
On the other hand, the fact that they didn't really talk about it could have been to avoid distracting fans with something like that when what they really wanted to do was generate some excitement around stuff like the voxels, horizontal progression etc... The things that really make the game different.
First of all. They did not mention anything about pvp or no pvp at all. Even in another interview he said, they won't comment on pvp now. Which means they do have some plans.
But.. i never expected that EQN will be a big pvp game anyway.
But we should not lose hope. Because really, now they have the tools. And all those tools fit perfectly for a grand scale pvp game. Maybe either SoE by himself will pick that up later on, or someone else will do it.
PS: And another point. The used the scenario with orks attacking a human village. And the player can choose to either help the orks or the humans.
Thats all good and nice. But in such a scenario you will never have just one player. And with that said, you will have players fighting for orks and for humans. And how can you really solve this situation without any pvp?
Well.. we have to wait and see what is coming in the next few days/weeks.
But at this point i am really impressed from the different toolsets they have available.. never expected a full destructable voxelengine with that level of detail.
I hope there is pvp in game, specifically by server rulesets.
-Hardcore FFA PVP severs
-PVP/PVE zone servers (With flagging)
-PVE only servers
and of course an RP server for each type or at least for the PVP/PVE zone servers (With flagging)
I dunno why people feel so threatened when someone else likes a specific style of play that is different from theirs....especially when server rulesets are possible and have been used in all kinds of MMOs.
Edit: Oh and it be nice if we can "guest" on at least one other server type or have free transfers (Unlikely) so people can get a little bit of everything when the bug bites em.
I've no problem with PvP in any game, and I'm sure there will be some PvP in this game; how many MMOs have no PvP to speak of in them? I think it is really rare.
Would I plya on a faction vs faction PvP server? Possibly. FFA PvP server? Unlikely. FFA full loot "hardcore" PvP server? Hell NO, why would I want to lose all of my hard work just because I lagged our some group zerged me? I know I'm not alone with this. These hardcore, full loot PvP concepts are just not popular, regardless of what you may think, and are only appealing to a niche market. SoE probably wants to appeal to as many people as possible, so sure, go ahead and make such servers, just don't expect many people to play on them.
Like I said, though, no problem with OW PvP. Just don't want it to be forced on me, or I won't play.
That would be great if they had a PVP server for factional pvp, I like pvp but I would prefer that over FFA as well. To date I haven't seen a healthy balance of gameplay in FFA pvp games (particularly with full loot lol).
We will see though, but I am going to take a guess that they will be primarily for PVE style gameplay with some limited and controlled PVP. Its just a more safe setup for developers to take in order to grow.
So worst case scenario, the minimum I would personally be happy with. BGs, dueling, Open world pvp zones, and Arenas much like WoW. I feel obliged to say I am not a fan of WoW anymore, but thats like the minimum I can hope for compared to zero pvp options.
I can definitely agree that the more gameplay options the better.
Comments
That Smedley. The way he one-shot whirlwinded hundreds of twitter followers at once made the trolling look face-roll.
If their PvP server was guild vs guild where we could fight other people over castles, then I would love that. I just don't see them going in two very different directions when it comes to server types. Creating a way for players to control castles on one server (PvP), but denying that on another (pve) wouldn't sit well with the PvE servers.
They could do it though, just give the PvP servers a way to control castles/cities so that resources won went to guilds etc. They are after all expecting no 2 servers to look exactly alike in terms of how the cities and npcs look.
What is the point in having all the assets destructible if your not going to have large scale PVP to take advantage of it. If there is not going to be at least one full on PVP server with proper PVP mechanics then a lot of people will be very disappointed.
The fact that it has cartoon graphics is bad enough.. still we have to wait and see.
The world regenerates over time, and things that are important or necessary will be protected from such things.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
A PvP server would still be PvP with no rewards. We need an asset destruction/territory control server where PvP actually means something. But that has to be built from the ground up and I just don't see that in EQN. I'm disheartened about the PvP, but oh well I come to expect that from devs because they have become greedy instead of building a niche game.
forget it. It's another mass market title with some fancy tech, but definitely no sandbox MMO. Well good luck sharing the same type of audience again and again with the other three dozens of similiar titles. Look mobs even telegraph their attacks! Boy how exciting! No territory control no player driven world, bore fest, no money from me.
Minecraft is not sandbox when it comes to mmoRPGs. The historical definition of a sandbox mmoRPG was always about PvP, which is why so many PvP player thought this could be the holy grail of PvP games. I agree with you Doc, that this is nothing like a traditional mmoRPG sandbox.
Yes EQN has some great tools that players can destroy or build with, but those tools don't make a sandbox alone. Without the ability to kill other players there is no sandbox.
Please show us this historical definition. I mean, it's a definition, so it should be written down somewhere, right? No? Then you're just making up your own personal definition of "Sandbox".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Anyway, there are going to be multiple servers. It's not going to be one big world, so I think it's safe to assume that there are going to be a variety of PvP styles available, depending on what people want. I would say assuming there are enough people to support each of the PvP styles they can think up, but they're going to have 200 EQ:L servers, so I don't think spinning up another, separate server for the different populations of PvP aficionados is going to be a problem.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm still holding out hope for it being open world PVP... But admit it doesn't look too promising at the moment.
On the other hand, the fact that they didn't really talk about it could have been to avoid distracting fans with something like that when what they really wanted to do was generate some excitement around stuff like the voxels, horizontal progression etc... The things that really make the game different.
One detail that was mentioned multiple times in the presentation was the fact that the server tracks every single choice you make wether it be good or evil.
This detail would allow any type of pvp to be allowed as part of the core ruleset and still have a fully functional game..
Greifers would dig a hole so deep for themselves factionally they would probably consider rerolling after the damage has been done to their character.
The fact that it wasn't covered at all means to me that anything is still possible and would definately be another emergent feature and that could be reasonably controlled thru the server tracking of your toon.
Life IS Feudal
I think if someone can open a hole under you and make you fall into the underworld then that implies open world pvp.
Unless they have something stupid like "jump down hole Y/N"?
There is no reason they can't have OW PvP severs. There's no reason for them to not have OW PvP servers. There have always been plenty enough people interested in OW PvP for developers to have OW PvP servers, and EQN will have multiple servers, each tracking its own path and changes depending on what the players do.
Plus, as Saxx0n said, the game tracks all the stuff the players do. If it can keep track of all the interactions between players and the NPCs, then there's no reason to think it can't keep track of smaller scale stuff between players. Interactions between players may affect interactions with NPCs through Story Bricks. There is a lot of really interesting things they could do on top of the OW PvP.
Smedley said, "Yes" to everything anyone has brought up about the game. While the way they are doing it might not be what people wanted or expected, one of the things he said, "Yes" to was OW PvP.
I think it'll be in there somewhere. I also think it will be a better implementation than say, WoW. Which isn't saying a whole lot, but still, better is better.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Saxxon and lizardbones... If they do have ow PvP and it is only on certain servers I really hope they go the extra mile to do things like that, e.g. have player interactions factor into karma that affects what you can do in the game. They said the paladin class would be off limits to people who did a lot of evil for example.
When asked to at least confirm if it is open world, he pauses and evades the question.
My guess is... Yes it is open world PVP. But they didn't want to talk about that in the beginning because it would turn off fans of the franchise. The way they did it, they got to generate a lot of excitement around some of the more special new features like voxels, horizontal progression etc.
But with confirmation that most of the world can be destroyed I don't see any way around it.
One encouraging thing to limit griefing is something I read elsewhere that the server records every interaction k between players and NPCs and your "karma" affects what you can do in game. They could use this to make unprovoked PKing unattractive.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/everquest-nexts-terry-michaels-you-wont-get-snake-skins-coming-from-gnolls-
First of all. They did not mention anything about pvp or no pvp at all. Even in another interview he said, they won't comment on pvp now. Which means they do have some plans.
But.. i never expected that EQN will be a big pvp game anyway.
But we should not lose hope. Because really, now they have the tools. And all those tools fit perfectly for a grand scale pvp game. Maybe either SoE by himself will pick that up later on, or someone else will do it.
PS: And another point. The used the scenario with orks attacking a human village. And the player can choose to either help the orks or the humans.
Thats all good and nice. But in such a scenario you will never have just one player. And with that said, you will have players fighting for orks and for humans. And how can you really solve this situation without any pvp?
Well.. we have to wait and see what is coming in the next few days/weeks.
But at this point i am really impressed from the different toolsets they have available.. never expected a full destructable voxelengine with that level of detail.
I hope there is pvp in game, specifically by server rulesets.
-Hardcore FFA PVP severs
-PVP/PVE zone servers (With flagging)
-PVE only servers
and of course an RP server for each type or at least for the PVP/PVE zone servers (With flagging)
I dunno why people feel so threatened when someone else likes a specific style of play that is different from theirs....especially when server rulesets are possible and have been used in all kinds of MMOs.
Edit: Oh and it be nice if we can "guest" on at least one other server type or have free transfers (Unlikely) so people can get a little bit of everything when the bug bites em.
I've no problem with PvP in any game, and I'm sure there will be some PvP in this game; how many MMOs have no PvP to speak of in them? I think it is really rare.
Would I plya on a faction vs faction PvP server? Possibly. FFA PvP server? Unlikely. FFA full loot "hardcore" PvP server? Hell NO, why would I want to lose all of my hard work just because I lagged our some group zerged me? I know I'm not alone with this. These hardcore, full loot PvP concepts are just not popular, regardless of what you may think, and are only appealing to a niche market. SoE probably wants to appeal to as many people as possible, so sure, go ahead and make such servers, just don't expect many people to play on them.
Like I said, though, no problem with OW PvP. Just don't want it to be forced on me, or I won't play.
That would be great if they had a PVP server for factional pvp, I like pvp but I would prefer that over FFA as well. To date I haven't seen a healthy balance of gameplay in FFA pvp games (particularly with full loot lol).
We will see though, but I am going to take a guess that they will be primarily for PVE style gameplay with some limited and controlled PVP. Its just a more safe setup for developers to take in order to grow.
So worst case scenario, the minimum I would personally be happy with. BGs, dueling, Open world pvp zones, and Arenas much like WoW. I feel obliged to say I am not a fan of WoW anymore, but thats like the minimum I can hope for compared to zero pvp options.
I can definitely agree that the more gameplay options the better.