Originally posted by DarkGulrak Oh crap, I've got myself caught in the web of hype for EQ Next.
Welcome to the dark side
I myself am hoping for something akin to EQ1's class systems, though I hope they make the classes a little more interesting. Frankly, after 13 - 14 years the classes that exist now would be a little bland to have them regurgitated in another game. I am really hoping for a very large selection of races, though. In my honest opinion, more races = more content and starting area's to explore. As an altoholic, I could see much of my replayability coming from all of the different starting area's.
Originally posted by Maquiame Where the hell are the damn Erudites
Yeah the Erudite of Odus and not the alien freaks of EQ2.
Precisely.
This is getting abit frustrating because I am noticing that not only were the Erudites NOT in the new poster but then one of the designers says in reference to them "We are doing our own thing". Which I guess means "they aren't here"......
Go human Diversity! *rolls eyes*
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Why does everyone assume that the name of a certain panel confirms classes in EQN?
Seeing as how SOE wants to make a huge surprise, it seems much more logical to announce a classless skill-based system during the panel.
That there will be classes has already been clearly announced. There won't be nearly as many as EQ2, rather "closer in numbers to the original EQ".
I never liked the idea of two kinds of druids, it made the Fury I played feel like half a druid compared to EQ 1's version. I certainly hope they model them much more like EQ 1 and I certainly hope they don't go with EQ 2's combo based combat system. I hate being told which buttons to push and in what order or suffer the consequences for not complying.
I think a lot of the splitting of classes was superfluous. I'm glad they are getting back to their roots somewhat. The ones I will be keeping an eye on are: Necro, Wiz, Enchanter and maybe the Druid. Druids in EQ kicked ass.
I think I heard mention in one of the interviews that they will be including a group combat dynamic similar to Heroic Opportunities where, say, spellcasters can combine their talents to make one big BOOM or effect. I think Dave was talking about that.
"EverQuest Next Column: A Different Kind of Norrath"
An article to speculate about what the panels will talk about. Erm...kay.
I expect that there will be large flow of "Disappointed" threads when said panels come and go. People's expectation are far to high. Mind you I think this is in part due to hype/smed talking crap.
Time and time again some MMO has said it will re-invent the wheel or bring the fans exactly what they want and it fails. Maybe I am jaded, maybe I am realist.
Either way you look at it, there is a large resurgence in the want for sandboxes but I keep asking myself. If sandboxes we're the answer to MMO's problems....why did they dwindle in the first place?
As to the panels....I suspect we will hear "We can't/don't have an answer to that right now." a gazillion times!! Hope I am wrong.
Should be interesting and looking forward to what EQNext realistically brings to the table.
Originally posted by Telondariel Ohh..and I also really would like to know how invasive the Cash Shop is going to be. Are there going to be UI prompts to make your life easier for just 50SC peppered everywhere? They've been gradually doing that with the EQ2 interface, which as the players know, has been a test-bed for EQN. I'm not concerned about the CS contents in itself, as they've all been non-game impacting so far, houses, mounts, potions, etc. I just don't want the interface to be filled with buttons like "30SC for a full armor repair!" "25SC for a fast travel!" "Get that spell upgraded for 200SC!" only on a more increased level than EQ2.
Yep, same here. Those cash shop reminders everywhere totally break immersion in an MMO. At least for me. But I don't have high hopes we won't see them in EQN. Even if you have a subscrption. Unfortunately....
I don't think EQN will have a subscription option. I very much doubt it. Only reason their old ones do Is because they originally did.
"EverQuest Next Column: A Different Kind of Norrath"
An article to speculate about what the panels will talk about. Erm...kay.
I expect that there will be large flow of "Disappointed" threads when said panels come and go. People's expectation are far to high. Mind you I think this is in part due to hype/smed talking crap.
Time and time again some MMO has said it will re-invent the wheel or bring the fans exactly what they want and it fails. Maybe I am jaded, maybe I am realist.
Either way you look at it, there is a large resurgence in the want for sandboxes but I keep asking myself. If sandboxes we're the answer to MMO's problems....why did they dwindle in the first place?
As to the panels....I suspect we will hear "We can't/don't have an answer to that right now." a gazillion times!! Hope I am wrong.
Should be interesting and looking forward to what EQNext realistically brings to the table.
Can you quote some of the things Smed has said to over hype this game?
Originally posted by Maquiame Where the hell are the damn Erudites
Yeah the Erudite of Odus and not the alien freaks of EQ2.
Precisely.
This is getting abit frustrating because I am noticing that not only were the Erudites NOT in the new poster but then one of the designers says in reference to them "We are doing our own thing". Which I guess means "they aren't here"......
Go human Diversity! *rolls eyes*
Read EQ Lore. EQN is a new universe but it has to start somewhere from the original and in the original the Erudite's fled Qeynos so if they're not in Erudite the kerra are and that is exactly what the poster looks like not a val shir.
"Kerra trace their ancestry back to their first great leader, Kejaan. He travelled the continent of Odus, uniting the various tribes into one kingdom and ushering in an era of peace and prosperity. One day, Erud and his High Men arrived to settle the continent. This splinter group of humans took over much kerra land; even worse, a great plague infected many and caused massive deaths. The Kerra blamed the Heretics and their study of necromancy. Kejaan succumbed to the plague, leaving his son Vah Kerrath as leader. He vowed to make the Heretics pay.
During the civil war between the [Erudites] and the Heretics, a huge explosion of mystical forces teleported an entire kerra village to the dark side of the moon of Luclin. Vah Kerrath survived this journey and renamed his lost tribe the Vah Shir. The Kerra on Norrath scattered; some went west to settle Kerra Isle, others east to a tiny island in Erud's Crossing, and others fled deep into the Stonebrunt Mountains. Much later, a path to Luclin was breached and some of the Vah Shir returned to Kerra Isle, breeding a new, stronger people."
So if Erudites are not on Odus there is a reason for that. EQN lore predates that event and could never happen in EQN period. Which is why we see a kerran in the art posted.
I would suspect they're in qeynos still and not considered another race. Which likely means you can make humans of any race/color.
Not sure how you fit classes into a sandbox, but I guess we will have to wait and see. If they do have a rigid class structure, then it cannot be a sandbox in a shape or form.
How they approach the cash shop will greatly influence how this game ends up. It doesn't matter what else they do if the UI is studded with advertisements and buttons prompting you to buy this, buy that.
The other thing is how much pressure there will be to push the cash shop and whether this shortchanges in-game achievement. For example, you work really hard to defeat a boss to get a rare drop - only to see it offered for sale a month later for 50 SmedleyBucks.
I know SOE has to make money. But please, please, please - don't subsume all other human values to that one end.
The absence of discussion of the revenue model and cash shop at this reveal is - revealing. It is like the car salesmen techniques who reel you in, reel you in - then hit you at the very end with the "sticker" price which turns out not to include 90 percent of the things they showed you ("options").
How they approach the cash shop will greatly influence how this game ends up. It doesn't matter what else they do if the UI is studded with advertisements and buttons prompting you to buy this, buy that.
The other thing is how much pressure there will be to push the cash shop and whether this shortchanges in-game achievement. For example, you work really hard to defeat a boss to get a rare drop - only to see it offered for sale a month later for 50 SmedleyBucks.
I know SOE has to make money. But please, please, please - don't subsume all other human values to that one end.
The absence of discussion of the revenue model and cash shop at this reveal is - revealing. It is like the car salesmen techniques who reel you in, reel you in - then hit you at the very end with the "sticker" price which turns out not to include 90 percent of the things they showed you ("options").
I hope I am just being paranoid.
I think its a valid point. There are going to be a lot of opportunities for Q&A, so hopefully that comes up. It should. I'll make a point of bringing it up over on EQ2Wire as Feldon and others who frequent his site will be going. He's pretty good about digging up information. If its a FreeRealms/EQN hybrid where you are bludgeoned with constant nickle and diming I will not be interested at all. If the game is good and there is a subscription option, then that would be preferable (for me).
What is EQN trying to be? A sandbox right? But that word is so broad and means different things to people. Will it be a content-created virtual-world like Second Life? I'm guessing no, since there might be classes, so this leaves EQN as a typical MMO with restrictions. I'm not sure calling it a sandbox is a correct description. A pure sandbox is giving players tools to create whatever they can within the engine.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Not sure how you fit classes into a sandbox, but I guess we will have to wait and see. If they do have a rigid class structure, then it cannot be a sandbox in a shape or form.
You apparently are one of those people who think what you think is a sandbox is what a sandbox is. Sandbox design is merely defined as the ability to go anywhere in the world from the first time you log in. Period. There are no mentions of class structure, building or destroying parts of the world, skill based systems, or any other number of things people on this site insist has to be in a sandbox for it to be called a sandbox.
MMO players have turned into toddlers. They think "I can make things in a sandbox, so I should be able to in a sandbox game". That's like saying "I can stay underwater for long periods of time in a sub, so I should be able to do the same with a sub sandwich".
Sandbox=build/destroy. Has nothing to do with classes or the ability to go anywhere in the world the first time you log in. It means you have the ability to shape the world, literally and figuratively.
You will have that ability in EQ Next. A little birdy told me. It will also have some sort of class structure, like every other EQ product.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Not sure how you fit classes into a sandbox, but I guess we will have to wait and see. If they do have a rigid class structure, then it cannot be a sandbox in a shape or form.
You apparently are one of those people who think what you think is a sandbox is what a sandbox is. Sandbox design is merely defined as the ability to go anywhere in the world from the first time you log in. Period. There are no mentions of class structure, building or destroying parts of the world, skill based systems, or any other number of things people on this site insist has to be in a sandbox for it to be called a sandbox.
MMO players have turned into toddlers. They think "I can make things in a sandbox, so I should be able to in a sandbox game". That's like saying "I can stay underwater for long periods of time in a sub, so I should be able to do the same with a sub sandwich".
Beg to differ, a sandbox almost requires a skill based system. Rigid class structures immediately remove any chance of the product being a sandbox because you cannot develop your avatar freely, you have to follow their predesigned class. Who cares about how the world is designed when you cannot choose how your avatar is developed.
If they have rigid class structures in EQNext then it most certainly is NOT a sandbox despite whatever other design features they include. Everyone knows that Smedley loves rigid class structures, that is why he destroyed SWG with his NGE design. So there is a good chance that Smedley is blowing smoke in everyone's eyes when he describes his game as a sandbox. Most developers really avoid a sandbox design because it is difficult to balance a skill based system, especially in pvp.
Anyone trying to say that rigid class structures do not negate a sandbox design, do not understand what a sandbox is.
Your whole gaming life must be screwed then. If you want a real sandbox, then by your own definition, you'll need a console and the ability to write your own scripts on the fly to make whatever you want to happen... happen. Basically, you're a wannabe game designer with no ability to design. Go play with cryoengine and enjoy your 'sandbox' environment.
Originally posted by Tibbz "Creating the World" Exploration (with risk) is my favorite part of MMO's. I want to gawk at the EQN World and see it, explore it, and OCD-ly look at every nook and cranny.
I could not agree with this more. I want exploration to be an adventure, filled with danger and hidden treasures.
I most definatly want to see the story, but most importantly, how huge is this new world and is it an open world where we can run for 10 mins straight and explore in some remote place like they had in eqoa?
Originally posted by Ozmodan Not sure how you fit classes into a sandbox, but I guess we will have to wait and see. If they do have a rigid class structure, then it cannot be a sandbox in a shape or form.
You apparently are one of those people who think what you think is a sandbox is what a sandbox is. Sandbox design is merely defined as the ability to go anywhere in the world from the first time you log in. Period. There are no mentions of class structure, building or destroying parts of the world, skill based systems, or any other number of things people on this site insist has to be in a sandbox for it to be called a sandbox.
MMO players have turned into toddlers. They think "I can make things in a sandbox, so I should be able to in a sandbox game". That's like saying "I can stay underwater for long periods of time in a sub, so I should be able to do the same with a sub sandwich".
Beg to differ, a sandbox almost requires a skill based system. Rigid class structures immediately remove any chance of the product being a sandbox because you cannot develop your avatar freely, you have to follow their predesigned class. Who cares about how the world is designed when you cannot choose how your avatar is developed.
If they have rigid class structures in EQNext then it most certainly is NOT a sandbox despite whatever other design features they include. Everyone knows that Smedley loves rigid class structures, that is why he destroyed SWG with his NGE design. So there is a good chance that Smedley is blowing smoke in everyone's eyes when he describes his game as a sandbox. Most developers really avoid a sandbox design because it is difficult to balance a skill based system, especially in pvp.
Anyone trying to say that rigid class structures do not negate a sandbox design, do not understand what a sandbox is.
I think your rigidity will cause you disappointment, if you are even interested in EQN. In every single discussion I've seen here, all the participants seem to have their own ideals of what a sandbox is. While that in itself is fine (because, really, I don't care what is floating around in your head) postulating about what is and what is not reeks of hubris.
Comments
Welcome to the dark side
Precisely.
This is getting abit frustrating because I am noticing that not only were the Erudites NOT in the new poster but then one of the designers says in reference to them "We are doing our own thing". Which I guess means "they aren't here"......
Go human Diversity! *rolls eyes*
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I think a lot of the splitting of classes was superfluous. I'm glad they are getting back to their roots somewhat. The ones I will be keeping an eye on are: Necro, Wiz, Enchanter and maybe the Druid. Druids in EQ kicked ass.
I think I heard mention in one of the interviews that they will be including a group combat dynamic similar to Heroic Opportunities where, say, spellcasters can combine their talents to make one big BOOM or effect. I think Dave was talking about that.
"EverQuest Next Column: A Different Kind of Norrath"
An article to speculate about what the panels will talk about. Erm...kay.
I expect that there will be large flow of "Disappointed" threads when said panels come and go. People's expectation are far to high. Mind you I think this is in part due to hype/smed talking crap.
Time and time again some MMO has said it will re-invent the wheel or bring the fans exactly what they want and it fails. Maybe I am jaded, maybe I am realist.
Either way you look at it, there is a large resurgence in the want for sandboxes but I keep asking myself. If sandboxes we're the answer to MMO's problems....why did they dwindle in the first place?
As to the panels....I suspect we will hear "We can't/don't have an answer to that right now." a gazillion times!! Hope I am wrong.
Should be interesting and looking forward to what EQNext realistically brings to the table.
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
I don't think EQN will have a subscription option. I very much doubt it. Only reason their old ones do Is because they originally did.
Can you quote some of the things Smed has said to over hype this game?
Read EQ Lore. EQN is a new universe but it has to start somewhere from the original and in the original the Erudite's fled Qeynos so if they're not in Erudite the kerra are and that is exactly what the poster looks like not a val shir.
"Kerra trace their ancestry back to their first great leader, Kejaan. He travelled the continent of Odus, uniting the various tribes into one kingdom and ushering in an era of peace and prosperity. One day, Erud and his High Men arrived to settle the continent. This splinter group of humans took over much kerra land; even worse, a great plague infected many and caused massive deaths. The Kerra blamed the Heretics and their study of necromancy. Kejaan succumbed to the plague, leaving his son Vah Kerrath as leader. He vowed to make the Heretics pay.
During the civil war between the [Erudites] and the Heretics, a huge explosion of mystical forces teleported an entire kerra village to the dark side of the moon of Luclin. Vah Kerrath survived this journey and renamed his lost tribe the Vah Shir. The Kerra on Norrath scattered; some went west to settle Kerra Isle, others east to a tiny island in Erud's Crossing, and others fled deep into the Stonebrunt Mountains. Much later, a path to Luclin was breached and some of the Vah Shir returned to Kerra Isle, breeding a new, stronger people."
Smile
How they approach the cash shop will greatly influence how this game ends up. It doesn't matter what else they do if the UI is studded with advertisements and buttons prompting you to buy this, buy that.
The other thing is how much pressure there will be to push the cash shop and whether this shortchanges in-game achievement. For example, you work really hard to defeat a boss to get a rare drop - only to see it offered for sale a month later for 50 SmedleyBucks.
I know SOE has to make money. But please, please, please - don't subsume all other human values to that one end.
The absence of discussion of the revenue model and cash shop at this reveal is - revealing. It is like the car salesmen techniques who reel you in, reel you in - then hit you at the very end with the "sticker" price which turns out not to include 90 percent of the things they showed you ("options").
I hope I am just being paranoid.
I think its a valid point. There are going to be a lot of opportunities for Q&A, so hopefully that comes up. It should. I'll make a point of bringing it up over on EQ2Wire as Feldon and others who frequent his site will be going. He's pretty good about digging up information. If its a FreeRealms/EQN hybrid where you are bludgeoned with constant nickle and diming I will not be interested at all. If the game is good and there is a subscription option, then that would be preferable (for me).
You apparently are one of those people who think what you think is a sandbox is what a sandbox is. Sandbox design is merely defined as the ability to go anywhere in the world from the first time you log in. Period. There are no mentions of class structure, building or destroying parts of the world, skill based systems, or any other number of things people on this site insist has to be in a sandbox for it to be called a sandbox.
Sandbox=build/destroy. Has nothing to do with classes or the ability to go anywhere in the world the first time you log in. It means you have the ability to shape the world, literally and figuratively.
You will have that ability in EQ Next. A little birdy told me. It will also have some sort of class structure, like every other EQ product.
Beg to differ, a sandbox almost requires a skill based system. Rigid class structures immediately remove any chance of the product being a sandbox because you cannot develop your avatar freely, you have to follow their predesigned class. Who cares about how the world is designed when you cannot choose how your avatar is developed.
If they have rigid class structures in EQNext then it most certainly is NOT a sandbox despite whatever other design features they include. Everyone knows that Smedley loves rigid class structures, that is why he destroyed SWG with his NGE design. So there is a good chance that Smedley is blowing smoke in everyone's eyes when he describes his game as a sandbox. Most developers really avoid a sandbox design because it is difficult to balance a skill based system, especially in pvp.
Anyone trying to say that rigid class structures do not negate a sandbox design, do not understand what a sandbox is.
I could not agree with this more. I want exploration to be an adventure, filled with danger and hidden treasures.
I will keep an eye out for this game, BUT it is SOE and they have not had a great track record over the past few years.
When talk actually has PROOF then I will get more excited or disappointed depending.
I think your rigidity will cause you disappointment, if you are even interested in EQN. In every single discussion I've seen here, all the participants seem to have their own ideals of what a sandbox is. While that in itself is fine (because, really, I don't care what is floating around in your head) postulating about what is and what is not reeks of hubris.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011