No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story).
You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy.
So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.
Haven't we learned yet that Star Wars is just not an IP for MMORPGs?
It's impossible to make accurately given the nature of Jedi. Either everyone would have to be a minor Jedi or have minor force skills or no one would be able to be a Jedi. Either way, there is no way for players to be badass Jedi and still remain true to the original IP.
In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader owned Solo. None of this Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior PVP nonsense.
Isn't this where suspending disbelief comes in? like in most games. One man takes down an army of trained Korean soldiers and then an invading bunch of aliens with a shotgun, Crysis. Play God to overpower your enemies develop brilliant technologies and fly to moon, CIV. Single handedly take down the Germans on Omaha beach, Medal Of honor. All about as real and possible as me marrying Madonna. So why does Star Wars have to that way when nearly all other games don't?
Though in the end it doesn't matter what this or any future Star Wars MMO does they'll be Star Wars fans bitching from the highest tower multiple times a day, like a Islamic cleric calling for prayer, that they have had their childhood raped by [insert company] with this new abomination of a game/movie/book. The only thing you can do is make fun of those sad creatures as life must be very very tough for them. Maybe we should send them to Syria for a reality check?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by ktanner3 You must be joking. KOTOR 2 was horrible. No thanks.
Diss other games all you want, but SWTOR was my first game that I experienced soI never many bugs in such a short period of time.
Then you've been either real lucky or don't have a whole lot of MMO experience. You certainly never played the previous MMO that was based on this IP. Now THAT game was a buggy mess that more fits in line with the issues you brought up. I've never been stuck, my missions always work and I've never had to call for help in TOR. In that other game? All the time.
Also, what makes you think my only issue with KOTOR 2 was bugs? I just didn't care for the game. Deal with it.
There is some humor in this. One of the most staunt supporters of SWTOR never played at launch?
Never stuck .. never had quest log issues .. lulz.
oO
In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oO
lulz, alrighty. Now I know the source of such propaganda :P
Many people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters. I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent. At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree. Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons. .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for. Getting stuck isn't fun.
I also believe you never played at launch if you claim there was never a quest log issue. My quest log was jammed up for half a year before it got fixed. Some quests were automatically picked upon planet arrival (and talking to someone). They could NOT be abandoned, and the quest limit was 25.
Yeah.
Unfortunately bugs are still around, some get cleaned up at the expense of new bugs forming. PVP, while not technically bugged is currently a mess with gear / no gear shenannigans, for instance. PVP is already useless in this game, but to make instanced PVP useless is a lol-able moment.
LOL
There we go.
I don't mind defenders supporting this game, and hell, I'll support it too .. but when misinformation gets tossed around, I don't really want to be apart of the fan base. So many lies get thrown around on the official forums as it is.
So lets get back on topic with Obsidian! They want Star Wars! Let em have it, can't hurt.
After 12 tears of MMO Game Play I can name 5 MMO's that make SWTOR launch seem 100% bug free.
Lineage 2: If it wasnt the NPC Database crashing every 45 minutes, it was the Chinese farmers intentionally crashing the servers so they wouldnt lose their items
Saga of Ryzom: The game was so buggy during Open Beta that they pulled the game back into Alpha testing to fix it. These problems literally killed the game.
Biosfear/Savage Eden: Had to refund everyones Pre-order of the game when the servers would not start when the game was supposed to go live which pushed the release date back and then killed the mmo
Everquest 2: Several months after the launch the servers went down for a routine rolling restart on friday(with majority of the developer staff calling in sick so they could play) because of an error the servers did not come back up till the following wednesday.
Now we come to the buggiest peice of software since the release of WinME:
Vanguard Saga of Heroes: This game was so buggy it made WinME seem stable it also drove players away by the thousands. Vanguard started out with over 30 servers and is now down to 1, with close to 60% of its bugs still in the game.
You see compared to these games SWTOR is relatively bug free.
Lets look at games that had a different rough start.
Matrix Online: Created by WB Interactive then sold to SOE. WB Interactive during its build up to the game promised us alot of stuff. DUring the early stages of Beta they actually put them into the game then during beta slowly removed them. By the time SOE got its hands on the game it was on life support begging for someone to pull the plug.
Warhammer Online: Some people say EA killed the game but in truth Mythic ruined the game long before EA ever bought Mythic. This is another instance of a developer promising too much and delivering to little.
Asheron's Call 2: Released way too soon and forced people to do a costly hardware upgrade,
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by iFruit No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story). You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy. So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.
O but i want lasers , grenades , guns and more guns. No hope for me ? I am now sad. i might try EQnext but nothing beats shooting people in the face with a virtual gun or laser. Maybe a Fallout MMO would be cool. What about a hybrid game where players can have bows and battleaxes and I get a grenande launcher ? Sign me up!
Cheers ,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Haven't we learned yet that Star Wars is just not an IP for MMORPGs?
It's impossible to make accurately given the nature of Jedi. Either everyone would have to be a minor Jedi or have minor force skills or no one would be able to be a Jedi. Either way, there is no way for players to be badass Jedi and still remain true to the original IP.
In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader owned Solo. None of this Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior PVP nonsense.
Isn't this where suspending disbelief comes in? like in most games. One man takes down an army of trained Korean soldiers and then an invading bunch of aliens with a shotgun, Crysis. Play God to overpower your enemies develop brilliant technologies and fly to moon, CIV. Single handedly take down the Germans on Omaha beach, Medal Of honor. All about as real and possible as me marrying Madonna. So why does Star Wars have to that way when nearly all other games don't?
Though in the end it doesn't matter what this or any future Star Wars MMO does they'll be Star Wars fans bitching from the highest tower multiple times a day, like a Islamic cleric calling for prayer, that they have had their childhood raped by [insert company] with this new abomination of a game/movie/book. The only thing you can do is make fun of those sad creatures as life must be very very tough for them. Maybe we should send them to Syria for a reality check?
Suspending our realities is one thing. That is what Star Wars is about in the 1st place. but the problem here is that in this particular IP, the Heroes and Villains have differing power levels and skill sets. The whole concept revolves around over powered people who need overpowered people to take them on. It just doesn't lend to MMOs where everyone has to have equal opportunity and relative power levels. You either have a system in SWG where Jedi were OP (Which IMO was contributing to he demise of that game long before NGE since the game's design couldn't support the overwhelming number of players becoming Jedi) Or you have a system like SWTOR where the Jedi and powered down and powers are divided into class sets and where Jedi get strength from gear. This may look a bit like Star Wars, but it is not Star Wars.
However, you may or may not remember, the Star Wars (Tabletop) RPG. It had an interesting concept. Most players had force skills. But they were weak and players were never supposed to become full fledged Jedi. But that won't sell MMORPGs.
Originally posted by iFruit No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story). You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy. So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.
Yes Battlefront is a different story. It is a FPS not an MMO, which means DICE will make it. Which in general means it is comming home. Battlefront actualy got its start as a mod for battlefield 1942.
In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oO
lulz, alrighty. Now I know the source of such propaganda :P
Many people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters. I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent. At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree. Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons. .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for. Getting stuck isn't fun.
well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.
I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".
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First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oOlulz, alrighty. Now I know the source of such propaganda :PMany people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters. I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent. At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree. Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons. .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for. Getting stuck isn't fun.
well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.
I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".
Out of all the characters I maxed out I only had one mission that got stuck on me and it was fixed ASAP.I had a couple times where my character fell into a crack in a hill aand couldn't move but using the stick command got me unstuck right away. Compared to what I've experienced in other games(SWG,Warhammer Online,STO) TOR was smooth sailing.
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running. The only time a MMO fails is when the servers are shut down. Last I checked the servers for SWTOR are still up and running. So while you assume the game is a failure it is not.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.
Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.
Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
Warhammer servers are still on and it is still P2P because the game has already paid off for itself. Now it is just matter of keeping servers on as long as there are enough players. I am sorry if everyone else criteria of judging the games success isn't same as yours.
Servers are on isn't the weakest argument but a very strong one. No company likes to dump money out of their own pockets especially not EA. They would shut the game down or make it F2P in blink of an eyes if they were not making profit on it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
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Kotor II was a buggy nightmare to play. Most of that was because of LA's deadline to launch before christmas but when a fan has to finish your game for you so others can actually play it.... I don't really see this company as the great hope for a new and better star wars game.
Maybe working with better people will mean all the difference for obsidian but I wouldn't get too excited about anything they're working on till it's done.
Agreed.
Also it's not just KOTOR II.Obsidian don't have a great track record when it comes to releasing bug free single player games. At some point the but has to stop at the developer. Their a great ideas company and their plot lines are usually well thought out, but after NWN2, Alpha Protocol, New Vegas, Dungeon Siege III...you really can't trust them to release anything on schedule that isn't borked somewhere.
I think that was half the reason the went on kickstarter, most investment firms can't trust them to stick to keydates. Considering how controversial the last two SW MMOs have been, I think the OP is using nostalgia to back up he's argument.
By the way you may not like SWTOR or EA but it isn't, 'failing', unless your the barometer for MMO success these days. Apparently it's doing rather well, not amazingly well, but it's profitable. You may have to just live with that as it's not likely anyone will through more money at this IP in the MMO scene for a while...
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.
Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
Warhammer servers are still on and it is still P2P because the game has already paid off for itself. Now it is just matter of keeping servers on as long as there are enough players. I am sorry if everyone else criteria of judging the games success isn't same as yours.
Servers are on isn't the weakest argument but a very strong one. No company likes to dump money out of their own pockets especially not EA. They would shut the game down or make it F2P in blink of an eyes if they were not making profit on it.
This right here sums it up. Frostvein keep thinking the game failed because as long as there are players that log in on a daily bases they keep proving your assumptions wrong.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.
Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
Warhammer servers are still on and it is still P2P because the game has already paid off for itself. Now it is just matter of keeping servers on as long as there are enough players. I am sorry if everyone else criteria of judging the games success isn't same as yours.
Servers are on isn't the weakest argument but a very strong one. No company likes to dump money out of their own pockets especially not EA. They would shut the game down or make it F2P in blink of an eyes if they were not making profit on it.
This right here sums it up. Frostvein keep thinking the game failed because as long as there are players that log in on a daily bases they keep proving your assumptions wrong.
Warhammer online is a failure judging by Mythics own statements and their expectations of how well it would do. Much like SWTOR is a failure because it's not pulling 2million+ subbers. You can still be profitable but if you go around making big statements about how you judge success and you don't meet them, then you've failed.
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.
Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
Warhammer servers are still on and it is still P2P because the game has already paid off for itself. Now it is just matter of keeping servers on as long as there are enough players. I am sorry if everyone else criteria of judging the games success isn't same as yours.
Servers are on isn't the weakest argument but a very strong one. No company likes to dump money out of their own pockets especially not EA. They would shut the game down or make it F2P in blink of an eyes if they were not making profit on it.
This right here sums it up. Frostvein keep thinking the game failed because as long as there are players that log in on a daily bases they keep proving your assumptions wrong.
Warhammer online is a failure judging by Mythics own statements and their expectations of how well it would do. Much like SWTOR is a failure because it's not pulling 2million+ subbers. You can still be profitable but if you go around making big statements about how you judge success and you don't meet them, then you've failed.
I love how people mix assumptions and opinions with facts. The fact of the matter is as long as a game is still up and running and recieivng updates on a regular bases then it is not a failure. WHen the game stops receiving any official updates then and only then is it considered a failure. In your opinion you can claim it is a failure all you want no one is allowed to make your opinion for you. But that is your opinion of the game. Prime example of this is Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, the game it self was such a dismal failure that the devloping game company was shut down and all updates are done by the players. Another example is Star Wars Galaxies with the release of the NGE the game lost 80% of its player base. These are examples of a what a failed game looks like. If all it takes is an opinion of what a failed game is then based on your statements because I say Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are failed games then that must mean they are.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
SWG went from 600k - 30k from every server being an active server to every server being dead.
swtor went from 2 Mill - 500k - 1.25 Mill from 16 servers - 8 servers and still every server that is active has people playing it.
SWG never recovered from the release of the NGE. When SWTOR went F2P it did recover. So it is not dead. I have to give you props for trying and failing. Could SWG recovered if it went F2P? No. The NGE completely ruined the game. The reason SWTOR lost players at the beginning is the same reason most MMO's loses players content did not come out fast enough.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Obsidian is one of the worst developers that somehow is still making games. I'm still stumped why people keep letting them make a joke of the gaming genre. After what they did to the Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Nights franchise I was at a loss for words.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Obsidian is one of the worst developers that somehow is still making games. I'm still stumped why people keep letting them make a joke of the gaming genre. After what they did to the Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Nights franchise I was at a loss for words.
Apparently you didnt play KOTOR2.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Comments
You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy.
So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.
>>SMITE<<
>>Strife: best ever MOBA<<
>>Rift: FREE Ally of the Ascended Pack<<
Isn't this where suspending disbelief comes in? like in most games. One man takes down an army of trained Korean soldiers and then an invading bunch of aliens with a shotgun, Crysis. Play God to overpower your enemies develop brilliant technologies and fly to moon, CIV. Single handedly take down the Germans on Omaha beach, Medal Of honor. All about as real and possible as me marrying Madonna. So why does Star Wars have to that way when nearly all other games don't?
Though in the end it doesn't matter what this or any future Star Wars MMO does they'll be Star Wars fans bitching from the highest tower multiple times a day, like a Islamic cleric calling for prayer, that they have had their childhood raped by [insert company] with this new abomination of a game/movie/book. The only thing you can do is make fun of those sad creatures as life must be very very tough for them. Maybe we should send them to Syria for a reality check?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
After 12 tears of MMO Game Play I can name 5 MMO's that make SWTOR launch seem 100% bug free.
Lineage 2: If it wasnt the NPC Database crashing every 45 minutes, it was the Chinese farmers intentionally crashing the servers so they wouldnt lose their items
Saga of Ryzom: The game was so buggy during Open Beta that they pulled the game back into Alpha testing to fix it. These problems literally killed the game.
Biosfear/Savage Eden: Had to refund everyones Pre-order of the game when the servers would not start when the game was supposed to go live which pushed the release date back and then killed the mmo
Everquest 2: Several months after the launch the servers went down for a routine rolling restart on friday(with majority of the developer staff calling in sick so they could play) because of an error the servers did not come back up till the following wednesday.
Now we come to the buggiest peice of software since the release of WinME:
Vanguard Saga of Heroes: This game was so buggy it made WinME seem stable it also drove players away by the thousands. Vanguard started out with over 30 servers and is now down to 1, with close to 60% of its bugs still in the game.
You see compared to these games SWTOR is relatively bug free.
Lets look at games that had a different rough start.
Matrix Online: Created by WB Interactive then sold to SOE. WB Interactive during its build up to the game promised us alot of stuff. DUring the early stages of Beta they actually put them into the game then during beta slowly removed them. By the time SOE got its hands on the game it was on life support begging for someone to pull the plug.
Warhammer Online: Some people say EA killed the game but in truth Mythic ruined the game long before EA ever bought Mythic. This is another instance of a developer promising too much and delivering to little.
Asheron's Call 2: Released way too soon and forced people to do a costly hardware upgrade,
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
O but i want lasers , grenades , guns and more guns. No hope for me ? I am now sad. i might try EQnext but nothing beats shooting people in the face with a virtual gun or laser. Maybe a Fallout MMO would be cool. What about a hybrid game where players can have bows and battleaxes and I get a grenande launcher ? Sign me up!
Cheers ,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Suspending our realities is one thing. That is what Star Wars is about in the 1st place. but the problem here is that in this particular IP, the Heroes and Villains have differing power levels and skill sets. The whole concept revolves around over powered people who need overpowered people to take them on. It just doesn't lend to MMOs where everyone has to have equal opportunity and relative power levels. You either have a system in SWG where Jedi were OP (Which IMO was contributing to he demise of that game long before NGE since the game's design couldn't support the overwhelming number of players becoming Jedi) Or you have a system like SWTOR where the Jedi and powered down and powers are divided into class sets and where Jedi get strength from gear. This may look a bit like Star Wars, but it is not Star Wars.
However, you may or may not remember, the Star Wars (Tabletop) RPG. It had an interesting concept. Most players had force skills. But they were weak and players were never supposed to become full fledged Jedi. But that won't sell MMORPGs.
Yes Battlefront is a different story. It is a FPS not an MMO, which means DICE will make it. Which in general means it is comming home. Battlefront actualy got its start as a mod for battlefield 1942.
well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.
I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.
Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!
I don't know why so many people disliked KOTOR2.
Other than it was rushed and had the stupid random drops, it was a pretty good game.
Really hope Obsidian would have gotten the green light for KOTOR3, but prob wont happen now.
well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.
I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".
Out of all the characters I maxed out I only had one mission that got stuck on me and it was fixed ASAP.I had a couple times where my character fell into a crack in a hill aand couldn't move but using the stick command got me unstuck right away. Compared to what I've experienced in other games(SWG,Warhammer Online,STO) TOR was smooth sailing.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running. The only time a MMO fails is when the servers are shut down. Last I checked the servers for SWTOR are still up and running. So while you assume the game is a failure it is not.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?
So I guess because you claim a game is a failure that means everyone else must claim its a failure too, right?
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
"ARE TEH SERVAHS STILL ON?!!?" is probably the weakest argument ever. Just because the servers are still on doesn't mean that the game didn't fail.
By what criteria would you consider it a success?
Surely it cant be that over 80 percent of the people that bought the game who left within the first 6 months, or the servers going from 230 to 30ish, or when the EA earnings report called SWTOR was a "miss", or when they laid off a huge part of the development team, or of course when they went free to play.Are people really still trying to act like this game didn't fail? Like its cool you like it and all, I'm glad that someone is getting enjoyment out of it but acting like it was or is a success is ridiculous.
Warhammer servers are still on and it is still P2P because the game has already paid off for itself. Now it is just matter of keeping servers on as long as there are enough players. I am sorry if everyone else criteria of judging the games success isn't same as yours.
Servers are on isn't the weakest argument but a very strong one. No company likes to dump money out of their own pockets especially not EA. They would shut the game down or make it F2P in blink of an eyes if they were not making profit on it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Agreed.
Also it's not just KOTOR II.Obsidian don't have a great track record when it comes to releasing bug free single player games. At some point the but has to stop at the developer. Their a great ideas company and their plot lines are usually well thought out, but after NWN2, Alpha Protocol, New Vegas, Dungeon Siege III...you really can't trust them to release anything on schedule that isn't borked somewhere.
I think that was half the reason the went on kickstarter, most investment firms can't trust them to stick to keydates. Considering how controversial the last two SW MMOs have been, I think the OP is using nostalgia to back up he's argument.
By the way you may not like SWTOR or EA but it isn't, 'failing', unless your the barometer for MMO success these days. Apparently it's doing rather well, not amazingly well, but it's profitable. You may have to just live with that as it's not likely anyone will through more money at this IP in the MMO scene for a while...
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
This right here sums it up. Frostvein keep thinking the game failed because as long as there are players that log in on a daily bases they keep proving your assumptions wrong.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Warhammer online is a failure judging by Mythics own statements and their expectations of how well it would do. Much like SWTOR is a failure because it's not pulling 2million+ subbers. You can still be profitable but if you go around making big statements about how you judge success and you don't meet them, then you've failed.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
I love how people mix assumptions and opinions with facts. The fact of the matter is as long as a game is still up and running and recieivng updates on a regular bases then it is not a failure. WHen the game stops receiving any official updates then and only then is it considered a failure. In your opinion you can claim it is a failure all you want no one is allowed to make your opinion for you. But that is your opinion of the game. Prime example of this is Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, the game it self was such a dismal failure that the devloping game company was shut down and all updates are done by the players. Another example is Star Wars Galaxies with the release of the NGE the game lost 80% of its player base. These are examples of a what a failed game looks like. If all it takes is an opinion of what a failed game is then based on your statements because I say Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are failed games then that must mean they are.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
so..swg loses 300-400k players= failure
swtor loses 1.5 mio players= no failure
i hope one of your teachers see this
SWG went from 600k - 30k from every server being an active server to every server being dead.
swtor went from 2 Mill - 500k - 1.25 Mill from 16 servers - 8 servers and still every server that is active has people playing it.
SWG never recovered from the release of the NGE. When SWTOR went F2P it did recover. So it is not dead. I have to give you props for trying and failing. Could SWG recovered if it went F2P? No. The NGE completely ruined the game. The reason SWTOR lost players at the beginning is the same reason most MMO's loses players content did not come out fast enough.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Apparently you didnt play KOTOR2.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"