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MMOs so simple even Americans can play them

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,381
    Originally posted by Graey
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by aesperus

    I will say, though, that everyone's stuck in an instant-gratification mindset that just isn't sustainable. A lot of things are close to a breaking point I'm not sure if people really see coming.

    Have to agree there. I often feel like that is one of the problems with the economy people go on about. I always hear "the middle class is shrinking" but I think the middle class is demanding more and more. People don't save up to buy a car, a tv, a new couch etc. They put it all on credit struggle to pay the bills then talk about how Wall Street is robbing them.

    Even the poorer low income households have cell phones, Playstations, and big screen TVs. These are almost considered necessities now. I think if people lived with only the basics that our parents and grandparents generations lived with we would find ourselves in a far better financial situation.

    But that's not the world we live in anymore.

    Very well thought out post. I definitely agree. I am not a parent...yet. However my kids won't have a cell phone until at least 18...if that. And it will be restricted none of this text everyone type conversations...what the hell is that about. Facebook, instagram, etc. It seems like everyone has to be jacked in now a days. Always instant gratification. We have all this new technology but we have not adapted to the changes in how to use it.

    Instantly you talk to a woman you see on the street, she looks up your facebook account, google you some place on the internet. No one is private any more stuff is getting out of hand. Case in point....you ever just been in a crowded place and watched people...90% of the people are on a phone txting, games etc. Not paying attention to their surroundings. Secondly you ever been in a group of people and watch them having a conversation via text messaging...when they are in the same damn room....

    I'll take that bet now, no way will you make it till 18...my 3rd child got his phone at 12.  Why? Not because he wanted one, but rather because they are far too useful to track down and contact your children when you want/need to.

    Excellent discipline tool as well, nothing can quell social disobedience as promising "electronic death", (no phones, video games, etc) during the rough early teen years...until they learn to drive... and you can hold that over them.

    Not saying you don't need to monitor everything and excercise some controls, but trying take your children back into the stone age to "protect" them is never the answer. (and my children are all in their late 20's now)

    Anyway back to the OP, Americans are just fine, and I'd like someone to point to a game that we cannot play and master that is "too complex" for us.

    Hey, we work harder, fight harder, and struggle more than most of the industrialized world, any wonder we like to take it a bit easy in our downtime?

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AstropuyoAstropuyo Member UncommonPosts: 1,945
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Graey
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by aesperus

    I will say, though, that everyone's stuck in an instant-gratification mindset that just isn't sustainable. A lot of things are close to a breaking point I'm not sure if people really see coming.

    Have to agree there. I often feel like that is one of the problems with the economy people go on about. I always hear "the middle class is shrinking" but I think the middle class is demanding more and more. People don't save up to buy a car, a tv, a new couch etc. They put it all on credit struggle to pay the bills then talk about how Wall Street is robbing them.

    Even the poorer low income households have cell phones, Playstations, and big screen TVs. These are almost considered necessities now. I think if people lived with only the basics that our parents and grandparents generations lived with we would find ourselves in a far better financial situation.

    But that's not the world we live in anymore.

    Very well thought out post. I definitely agree. I am not a parent...yet. However my kids won't have a cell phone until at least 18...if that. And it will be restricted none of this text everyone type conversations...what the hell is that about. Facebook, instagram, etc. It seems like everyone has to be jacked in now a days. Always instant gratification. We have all this new technology but we have not adapted to the changes in how to use it.

    Instantly you talk to a woman you see on the street, she looks up your facebook account, google you some place on the internet. No one is private any more stuff is getting out of hand. Case in point....you ever just been in a crowded place and watched people...90% of the people are on a phone txting, games etc. Not paying attention to their surroundings. Secondly you ever been in a group of people and watch them having a conversation via text messaging...when they are in the same damn room....

    I'll take that bet now, no way will you make it till 18...my 3rd child got his phone at 12.  Why? Not because he wanted one, but rather because they are far too useful to track down and contact your children when you want/need to.

    Excellent discipline tool as well, nothing can quell social disobedience as promising "electronic death", (no phones, video games, etc) during the rough early teen years...until they learn to drive... and you can hold that over them.

    Not saying you don't need to monitor everything and excercise some controls, but trying take your children back into the stone age to "protect" them is never the answer. (and my children are all in their late 20's now)

    Anyway back to the OP, Americans are just fine, and I'd like someone to point to a game that we cannot play and master that is "too complex" for us.

    Hey, we work harder, fight harder, and struggle more than most of the industrialized world, any wonder we like to take it a bit easy in our downtime?

     

     

    Not going to tell you how to raise your kids but you are making a mistake letting the electronic device be a punishment (removing) you create a covetous situation and thus fuels this flagrant craze in consumerism.

     

    Teach your children tech is a tool, not something to fear the removal of. As I said this just makes em covet shinies more and you are creating materialistic traits.

     

    Nothing more aside from that. Hell beat your kids for all I care. I just don't want to have a chance of being trampled at best buy when your crumb catchers come in 50 deep and crush my little ass trying to pre-order FFRR

  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    Why is it I feel I do little but defend Americans these days.

     

    Pull yourself together Americans, so I don't have to :p

     

    I think most of the reason computer games are so easy these days is that we aren't 12 anymore. A lot of things are easier for adults.

    Yes there is some truth to this but also there is no doubt at all that all games have become easier too.

    Also I don't believe anyone will ever get that feeling of their first mmo again.

    I just ask for one with some challenge to it,not one where i am a dodge roll around dps class like everyone else that I am not even grouped with and don't even compete for resource nodes,yeah lets all be friends and not have any challenge what so ever,oh wait lets be so kind we can level to max level just gathering and making underpants,never picking up a weapon ever... yeah awesome.

    Or lets make our game so you can log in for 30 minutes a week and change your role from healer,tank,dps,mana regen.support,crowd control so that everyone can run around and be happy ! yeah awesome. 

     

    yeah maybe i am wrong,games are way harder now


    image

  • CursedseiCursedsei Member Posts: 1,012
    Originally posted by Fangrim
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    Why is it I feel I do little but defend Americans these days.

     

    Pull yourself together Americans, so I don't have to :p

     

    I think most of the reason computer games are so easy these days is that we aren't 12 anymore. A lot of things are easier for adults.

    Yes there is some truth to this but also there is no doubt at all that all games have become easier too.

    Also I don't believe anyone will ever get that feeling of their first mmo again.

    I just ask for one with some challenge to it,not one where i am a dodge roll around dps class like everyone else that I am not even grouped with and don't even compete for resource nodes,yeah lets all be friends and not have any challenge what so ever,oh wait lets be so kind we can level to max level just gathering and making underpants,never picking up a weapon ever... yeah awesome.

    Or lets make our game so you can log in for 30 minutes a week and change your role from healer,tank,dps,mana regen.support,crowd control so that everyone can run around and be happy ! yeah awesome. 

     

    yeah maybe i am wrong,games are way harder now

    Because Crafting should just be a side-line activity to the games, and barely worth it to the playerbase at large in order to encourage them to just kill kill kill, am I right?

     

    The ignorance of such a concept is laughable at best, and downright pathetic realistically. Most "hardcore" MMOs would die out if they were to abide by such logic, seeing as they usually use crafting for the availability of most all gear within the game.

    I actually seem to remember there are plenty of hardcore-styled games, like Eve or even Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxy for instance, that actually encourage the gatherer/crafter-only mentality.

     

    But hey, variety is the poison of life, so let's just give everyone one role in games and make it a race of who brings more deeps to a fight.

  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911
    I don't believe Americans are stupid. Sure there is the odd idiot they are inward looking. But on the whole they are intelligent hard working and generous. Perhaps they became a bit complacent but so has every western country.
  • GanksinatraGanksinatra Member UncommonPosts: 451
    We like our games easy? Have you PLAYED AION and some of the Japanese grind fests? Killing mobs over and over again all day long, several days in a row is not what I would call "difficulty".
  • CursedseiCursedsei Member Posts: 1,012
    Originally posted by Ganksinatra
    We like our games easy? Have you PLAYED AION and some of the Japanese grind fests? Killing mobs over and over again all day long, several days in a row is not what I would call "difficulty".

    Korean, actually buddy, for Aion. Most of the typical games associated with the "Asian-grindfest" stereotype are made either in Korea or China.

     

    That point, though, is off topic to even this. They mean something like harsh death-penalties, full-loot open world PvP, while "americanized" (as idiotic as that statement and label is) only want carebear-styled linear games full of hand-holding.

  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    Originally posted by Cursedsei
    Originally posted by Fangrim
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    Why is it I feel I do little but defend Americans these days.

     

    Pull yourself together Americans, so I don't have to :p

     

    I think most of the reason computer games are so easy these days is that we aren't 12 anymore. A lot of things are easier for adults.

    Yes there is some truth to this but also there is no doubt at all that all games have become easier too.

    Also I don't believe anyone will ever get that feeling of their first mmo again.

    I just ask for one with some challenge to it,not one where i am a dodge roll around dps class like everyone else that I am not even grouped with and don't even compete for resource nodes,yeah lets all be friends and not have any challenge what so ever,oh wait lets be so kind we can level to max level just gathering and making underpants,never picking up a weapon ever... yeah awesome.

    Or lets make our game so you can log in for 30 minutes a week and change your role from healer,tank,dps,mana regen.support,crowd control so that everyone can run around and be happy ! yeah awesome. 

     

    yeah maybe i am wrong,games are way harder now

    Because Crafting should just be a side-line activity to the games, and barely worth it to the playerbase at large in order to encourage them to just kill kill kill, am I right?

     

    The ignorance of such a concept is laughable at best, and downright pathetic realistically. Most "hardcore" MMOs would die out if they were to abide by such logic, seeing as they usually use crafting for the availability of most all gear within the game.

    I actually seem to remember there are plenty of hardcore-styled games, like Eve or even Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxy for instance, that actually encourage the gatherer/crafter-only mentality.

     

    But hey, variety is the poison of life, so let's just give everyone one role in games and make it a race of who brings more deeps to a fight.

    Umm what are you talking about? IMOP you should have separate experience for each sphere of your character,Adventure,tradeskill,harvest. I was referring to a casual game where you can get max adventure level without ever wielding a weapon..


    image

  • TalinTalin Member Posts: 824

    Easier = higher mass appeal for non-hardcore gamers.

    Companies make games to make money, so the larger the playerbase they can attract, the better (to them).

    What does that have to do with Americans?

     

     

  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    Originally posted by Talin

    Easier = higher mass appeal for non-hardcore gamers.

    Companies make games to make money, so the larger the playerbase they can attract, the better (to them).

    What does that have to do with Americans?

     

     

    Exactly,I have been saying this for years. There will never ever be a decent MMORPG made ever again.Even the old ones have been nerfed down. The problem is the HC players are a dying breed,the market is saturated with casuals and console kids.Developers would be stupid to make a game that is too hard for these people.

    So we end up with games you can 100% solo to max level in 1-2 days then you get to the bits for more HC players to do instances & raid.

    We lost the journey and have totally linear hand held...I nearly said worlds but we totally lost those too...it is a joke.


    image

  • SoltekSoltek Member Posts: 29
    Originally posted by Attend4455

    "We want to give rewards even in that tutorial where you can do nothing wrong because that is what society has led American kids to expect."

    Industry veteran Don Daglow on how American society is different, and how many differences lead to games performing differently than in Europe.

    In this free GDC Europe 2012 lecture, Daglow - co-creator of the '90s online game Neverwinter Nights, one of the first graphical MMORPGs, offers up 5 tips for designing for American online players, including advice on user interface, the amount of text in-game, and the craving for recognition as an individual.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196118/Video_Don_Daglows_5_design_tips_to_cater_to_American_online_gamers.php

    Being an American with a low attention span I only made it through the first 27 minutes of the video. Up to that point I pretty much agreed with everything he said.

     

    My question is does he actually say that Americans like simple games? I'm guessing that he doesn't actually say that and that was just your interpretation.

     

    American's are as different from each other as every other country is from each other, mainly because we come from every other country. Everyone’s perspective on what is simple or hard is different, even here in America. I'm sure this is what make's it vary difficult to market to us.

     

    And don't be surprised if European kids want the same thing in the near future.

     

  • OberholzerOberholzer Member Posts: 498
    I haven't played a game since pong, that was hard and being American I gave up.
  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659
    As long as quests aren't asking to kill more than 20 rats, i'm good.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,979
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by thegreatestagain
    generalization is bad

    But he is right. America is made of a society where "everybody wins." T-ball and youth soccer/European football do not keep score any more. No more gold stars for excellence. Anything that can make another child "feel bad" is shunned.

     

    Then, they hit the real world.

    Everybody wins something, which is the treat for doing something.

     

    Dolphins at Sea World dont do what they do for nothing. There is always a treat involved. otherwise they wouldnt do anything you( the developers) want them to do (game design)

    image

  • shadekattshadekatt Member Posts: 9
    I am not sure which is worse, this silly conversation about the generalization of millions of people because of where they live, or the fact that I read all 6 pages of it.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Theres a reason why linear shooters are so popular in America.  None of my friends even like rpgs.  They didnt like the first Mass Effect but loved the 2 and 3.

    I love ME1, like ME2 but hate ME3. too much simplification killed it for me.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Astropuyo
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Graey
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by aesperus

    I will say, though, that everyone's stuck in an instant-gratification mindset that just isn't sustainable. A lot of things are close to a breaking point I'm not sure if people really see coming.

    Have to agree there. I often feel like that is one of the problems with the economy people go on about. I always hear "the middle class is shrinking" but I think the middle class is demanding more and more. People don't save up to buy a car, a tv, a new couch etc. They put it all on credit struggle to pay the bills then talk about how Wall Street is robbing them.

    Even the poorer low income households have cell phones, Playstations, and big screen TVs. These are almost considered necessities now. I think if people lived with only the basics that our parents and grandparents generations lived with we would find ourselves in a far better financial situation.

    But that's not the world we live in anymore.

    Very well thought out post. I definitely agree. I am not a parent...yet. However my kids won't have a cell phone until at least 18...if that. And it will be restricted none of this text everyone type conversations...what the hell is that about. Facebook, instagram, etc. It seems like everyone has to be jacked in now a days. Always instant gratification. We have all this new technology but we have not adapted to the changes in how to use it.

    Instantly you talk to a woman you see on the street, she looks up your facebook account, google you some place on the internet. No one is private any more stuff is getting out of hand. Case in point....you ever just been in a crowded place and watched people...90% of the people are on a phone txting, games etc. Not paying attention to their surroundings. Secondly you ever been in a group of people and watch them having a conversation via text messaging...when they are in the same damn room....

    I'll take that bet now, no way will you make it till 18...my 3rd child got his phone at 12.  Why? Not because he wanted one, but rather because they are far too useful to track down and contact your children when you want/need to.

    Excellent discipline tool as well, nothing can quell social disobedience as promising "electronic death", (no phones, video games, etc) during the rough early teen years...until they learn to drive... and you can hold that over them.

    Not saying you don't need to monitor everything and excercise some controls, but trying take your children back into the stone age to "protect" them is never the answer. (and my children are all in their late 20's now)

    Anyway back to the OP, Americans are just fine, and I'd like someone to point to a game that we cannot play and master that is "too complex" for us.

    Hey, we work harder, fight harder, and struggle more than most of the industrialized world, any wonder we like to take it a bit easy in our downtime?

     

     

    Not going to tell you how to raise your kids but you are making a mistake letting the electronic device be a punishment (removing) you create a covetous situation and thus fuels this flagrant craze in consumerism.

     

    Teach your children tech is a tool, not something to fear the removal of. As I said this just makes em covet shinies more and you are creating materialistic traits.

     

    Nothing more aside from that. Hell beat your kids for all I care. I just don't want to have a chance of being trampled at best buy when your crumb catchers come in 50 deep and crush my little ass trying to pre-order FFRR

    When you talk all high and mighty about "tech", here on a video game forum, it makes me think about taking my dads $40 wrench and digging in the dirt with it......

     

    Then you follow that by "I don't have kids but I think you should beat yours".

     

     

    What you should do is go somewhere and grow up a bit, live a little, get some perspective.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Yep, Americans are strange. But then, so is everyone else.
  • VarossVaross Moderator UncommonPosts: 8,222
    Keep the discussion to the video's topic, and please don't flame or troll based on another posters nationality.
    To give feedback on moderation, please contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,523


    Originally posted by Astropuyo

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by thegreatestagain
    generalization is bad
    But he is right. America is made of a society where "everybody wins." T-ball and youth soccer/European football do not keep score any more. No more gold stars for excellence. Anything that can make another child "feel bad" is shunned.Then, they hit the real world.
     
    No your experience is such as that. Mine is totally different.They just tossed me into that mix by generalizing. I'm a hardcore gemstone 3 playing, will pick up wow if I want ...mostly plays super system games type of player.I am American.Point is I play with gamers EXACTLY like my mentality. If it wasn't done on hardcore? You didn't do it at all.It's "people" such yourself that give rise to the stereotype simply because you are too ignorant to look beyond the media and your small bubble. You have chosen this ignorance as well.T-ball is practice for a sport as is little kids soccer. Even in soccer we lost. We didn't get a trophy or a win pizza. We lost. I'm not that old . I played the sport. Did you?T-ball? When we played it was to learn to hit a softball. T-ball is not a sport you twunk.Get out of your little bubble and stop talking out of your ass kiddo'.
    Ha! "kiddo." Haven't been called that in 35 years. I was born the year JFK was assassinated. That's 1963 if you do not recall. When people ask, "What were you doing when JFK got shot?" I can honestly answer, "I was either sleeping, pooping, or eating." I was 8 months old.

    In kindergarten, I was the last kid to learn how to tie my shoes, the caboose on the shoe train. It did not scar me for life. I played games where there were winners and losers. We got ribbons, trophies, and marks for excellence.

    I am talking about today's children. Do you have any? My son will be 26 in a couple of days. Luckily, he missed this "new era" in child rearing, though it started with the young ones when he was in junior high school. "No child left behind" was implemented then and hurt him. He was bored stiff in school and was not "allowed" to excel, in order to protect the other children's feelings. Because of this, he hates, I mean hates schools and academia. He got bored in school and looked for amusement in less "acceptable" ways, usually getting into trouble just to keep himself amused.

    I would suggest you open your own eyes. Did I say that *I* am this way? No. I said America is this way. Refute that point instead of making wild accusations and using a singular anecdote.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    The funny part is most Europeans view on The United States, is not of  the United States, instead all they know is 'Murica... Our media is a bunch of sensationalist nonsense. Designed to hit at the core of stupid.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,523

    The best 3:28 span of time on TV happened last year on HBO's show The Newsroom.
    [i]"America is not the greatest country in the world anymore. But it can be."[i]

    Sums up my thoughts very well.

    Yes, some Americans are above the norm, but that number seems to be getting fewer and fewer. We still have innovations, inventions, and scientific breakthroughs, but study after study show that too many children do not know basic facts about America. Many times, foreign students know more about America than Americans do.

    In order to truly soar, you cannot stay with the flock.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • EberhardtEberhardt Member UncommonPosts: 157
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    Why is it I feel I do little but defend Americans these days.

     

    Pull yourself together Americans, so I don't have to :p

     

    I think most of the reason computer games are so easy these days is that we aren't 12 anymore. A lot of things are easier for adults.

    America is just the country to pick on it seems. Not sure why, but the world just likes to pin everything on America. "Every American is fat", "Every American is dumb/uneducated", "Every American is lazy"; The list goes on. But to say that American society is responsible or even to say "so easy an American can play it" is a bit absurd. I've lived in a lot of places around the world. It really isn't all that different around the world. Europe/Korea have their share of overweight/fat people, as well as a good stock of uneducated individuals. 

    Remember folks when you point a finger at someone there are at least 3 more pointing back at you.

  • wazaapwazaap Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Point is, mmorpgs should be developed from the ideas and dreams of their creators, not the ridiculous notion of how they perceive the behavior patterns of one group of Americans. Such a silly notion needs to be dropped and forgotten quickly.

    This!!

    Unfortunately it seems like a lot of companies have been focused on making money instead of creating their entertainment vision. And apparantly kids who get everything from their parents, is a large consumer of videogames. Therefore a lot of games are produced with these kids in mind :-/

    I know that nothing is for free, and these companies have to make ends meet. But still, i think its dangerous for a industry, selling entertainment, to  look at previous ideas and salesnumbers, when deciding on a new game. 

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Hey, we work harder, fight harder, and struggle more than most of the industrialized world, any wonder we like to take it a bit easy in our downtime?

     

    lol dont think so, Indian and Asian people would laugh at that statement. 

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