And I also REALLY liked the open non-contentious way he started the post. Although I didn't know "fanbois" was a word, I thought that was just poor grammar...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Originally posted by Salahudin is this a hater or a marketing genius?
Pretty sure it's marketing. He complains about things that people WANT. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. And it seems to be working.
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
Originally posted by Salahudin is this a hater or a marketing genius?
Pretty sure it's marketing. He complains about things that people WANT. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. And it seems to be working.
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
If you've played the game longer than the "Open Beta" time then you realize there's no need to refute ANY of his negatives as they are either completely false or extremely exaggerated.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
I like the game, I think its fun, but I have to admit, the OP is not wrong. A lot of the design decisions about this game system really has me scratching my head. Why everything in game is tied to the SIN (in game network) I will never know. When it breaks, half the game breaks with it, and its the same when it comes to lag. Its not unheard of for your inventory to take over 5 minutes to load. Don't rely on chat as its equally likely to be down multiple times per day.
Originally posted by Jadedangel1 I like the game, I think its fun, but I have to admit, the OP is not wrong. A lot of the design decisions about this game system really has me scratching my head. Why everything in game is tied to the SIN (in game network) I will never know. When it breaks, half the game breaks with it, and its the same when it comes to lag. Its not unheard of for your inventory to take over 5 minutes to load. Don't rely on chat as its equally likely to be down multiple times per day.
Personally I have played quite a bit and have almost every frame unlocked, I have seen what you're referring to but it's NEVER impeded me.
Inventory...it's fairly useless and has worked all 5 times I've ever needed it.
Chat....again fairly useless.
I do hope they make it more challenging, personally.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Like many others in this thread, I have started becoming interested in this game after reading OP. At first this game held zero interest for me , but now....I don't know. I can't decide if that post was genuine or meant sarcastically.
Originally posted by Salahudin is this a hater or a marketing genius?
Pretty sure it's marketing. He complains about things that people WANT. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. And it seems to be working.
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
If you've played the game longer than the "Open Beta" time then you realize there's no need to refute ANY of his negatives as they are either completely false or extremely exaggerated.
I'm not saying the OP is 100% correct. However, Its hard to find, but even on Firefall's forums you will find Founders who quietly admit to some of these issues. The fan boys try to cover it up with the usual "the devs are working hard, give them a chance" and such. But even occasionally a dev will come on the forums and admit a few of the "issues".
Like I said in my other post, I like the game and think its fun, but I'm also not going to sit here and basically call someone a liar for saying something negative about what I like. How are games ever going to change for the better if no one will admit there's a problem? This is a problem with a lot games these days due to their fans preferring to turn a blind eye rather than facing facts. I'm starting to think that MMOs need their own 12 step program.
It just went in to open beta...If you think "Open Beta" means that you get a headstart on a finished game you need to re-learn your terminology. The OPs original post shows the real difference between pre-wow and post-wow "mmorpg" players...
Funny, the OP's post makes me want to try Firefall. Especially the complex crafting bit.
But there are a few things I am curious about though. How much you need to grind for resources to craft is one thing. And if there are so many different resource types, I wonder how restrictive they are going to make the inventory. Small inventory is one of my main petpeeves in MMO's. I really hate having to run back to town every minute because my inventory is full. That makes me stop playing very fast.
Originally posted by Salahudin is this a hater or a marketing genius?
Pretty sure it's marketing. He complains about things that people WANT. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. And it seems to be working.
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
If you've played the game longer than the "Open Beta" time then you realize there's no need to refute ANY of his negatives as they are either completely false or extremely exaggerated.
You have it wrong. It is truths that don't need refuting. It's fallacy and misleading comments that need to be refuted if you are to have a discussion which seeks to obtain truth. I don't know if the OP has it right or wrong but I do see overly defensive people ignoring his points and choosing to only comment that they like certain things which he does not.
In that regard it's no different to the hyped up people who flock to most big games upon their launch. Now that said people also go to the other extremes in these situation and that may be the case here but for the most part people aren't doing a good job of addressing what he is saying beyond reinforcing the positives, attacking him personally and ignoring the negatives.
Originally posted by Salahudin is this a hater or a marketing genius?
Pretty sure it's marketing. He complains about things that people WANT. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. And it seems to be working.
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
If you've played the game longer than the "Open Beta" time then you realize there's no need to refute ANY of his negatives as they are either completely false or extremely exaggerated.
Really? Is that so? Now who's being false here? Its hard to find, but even on Firefall's forums you fill find Founders who quietly admit to these issues. The fan boys try to cover it up with the usual "the devs are working hard, give them a chance" and such.
Issues or none, shouldn't they be given a chance? This is Beta after all. A lot of the technical problems the OP mentioned were related to lag, which can only be caught by increasing load.
PS. I haven't touched the game. Just a neutral guy passing by.
Originally posted by ozmono His entitled to his opinions and he detailed them. Some people here have made personal attacks against him or just called him full of shit and so on without even addressing what he is talking about. Not all but a few. It's disgusting. Oh and just because it's a free to play game doesn't mean it should be exempt from criticism, they still want your money for this product. I don't know if his points are accurate but many of the responses so far are below the belt.
I strongly agree. At least he detailed his reasons for not liking the game. For the most part they were valid concerns and complaints.
I think it wouldn't of mattered what he wrote in his post, half the people didn't read the post and admitted as much.
Originally posted by flizzer The one big turn off for me is the limited world size. What happened to large MMO worlds. Yes, I understand we are in open beta but still.......
I couldn't agree with this more. The lack of variety of the world and the lack of enemy types is a big turn off to me, but it's kinda like Guild Wars 2...it's not costing me a dime and I can drop in whenever I like for a bit of fun so it's well worth the minor amount of money I've invested.
I have been VERY impressed with the changes they've made, I don't agree with all of them but I do see the design purpose for them and the long-term benefit.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Funny, the OP's post makes me want to try Firefall. Especially the complex crafting bit.
But there are a few things I am curious about though. How much you need to grind for resources to craft is one thing. And if there are so many different resource types, I wonder how restrictive they are going to make the inventory. Small inventory is one of my main petpeeves in MMO's. I really hate having to run back to town every minute because my inventory is full. That makes me stop playing very fast.
A big part of the game revolves around thumping (which basically is a grind for resources. But its fun), and crafting. You don't have to craft, but another big part of the game is collecting all the battle frames and upgrading them which requires those resources and crafting if you don't want to buy the parts. The last big part are the dynamic events, which are like the rifts in Rift...of which you need the upgraded battle frames to partake in the harder levels of them...which circles back to thumping.
Originally posted by Jadedangel1 I like the game, I think its fun, but I have to admit, the OP is not wrong. A lot of the design decisions about this game system really has me scratching my head. Why everything in game is tied to the SIN (in game network) I will never know. When it breaks, half the game breaks with it, and its the same when it comes to lag. Its not unheard of for your inventory to take over 5 minutes to load. Don't rely on chat as its equally likely to be down multiple times per day.
Personally I have played quite a bit and have almost every frame unlocked, I have seen what you're referring to but it's NEVER impeded me.
Inventory...it's fairly useless and has worked all 5 times I've ever needed it.
Chat....again fairly useless.
I do hope they make it more challenging, personally.
I agree with you, but It does impede a bit. The game heavily relies on crafting, yet with the SIN having problems since launch the battle garage and crafting stations spent many hours not working. As for chat, you're right, its not really needed. But since it requires chat commends in order to group up, it too does impede a bit.
I may not agree with the top few points in the ops post, but for the most part I'll agree with the rest.
First off, from what I've seen durability loss is a way of keeping players interested. I haven't played much with it as I've only used stock gear, but from how many materials and grinding is required to craft, in this game, I'll say Eves system is FAR better. Funner, I can't exactly nail the difference between the two, but it's there.
Second, the devs on this game have posted replies to more people than I've ever witnessed in a game before. I think they are doing a fantastic job at customer service, at least from the forum end, I couldn't tell you based on tickets and whatnot.
I will admit, out of the gate, world size is an issue for me. It probably wouldn't be as much of an issue though if the world fealt alive. I mean I wandered for a good hour, maybe two and found ZERO enemies. I uplinked with like 6 sin stations and defended a station against a chosen assualt that contained one enemy.
My last gripe with the game, at least in its current state, is how very little skill seems to be involved. It's billed as a game where skill matters, and as with most fps's that's what you would be led to believe. The problem is is the ai is just... bad. not the internal pathfinding and whatnots, but the overall ai health, damage, and accuracy. I mean I thumped once and out of the blue a big pylon lookin thing landed next to my thumper as soon as I had placed it and about 10 chosen spawned. A veteran of many first person shooters, I backed away quickly, using thrusters and zig zags. None of this mattered, as they took me down in less than two seconds. I respawned and sniped each one individually till the group was dead. For the most part when I attacked one the rest just stood there. The problem was the ones using bullets (as opposed to the large fireball looking things) could hit me no matter what I was doing. And they did Heavy damage. Huge. Much more than I could put out. On the very same note, unless you're wearing armor or are shielded in some way, a head shot should be a headshot...
i have to tell i have been in firefall for looong time now from the firsts steps. there was so much potential on this but they never delivered what could have been and its sad.
Originally posted by ozmono His entitled to his opinions and he detailed them. Some people here have made personal attacks against him or just called him full of shit and so on without even addressing what he is talking about. Not all but a few. It's disgusting. Oh and just because it's a free to play game doesn't mean it should be exempt from criticism, they still want your money for this product. I don't know if his points are accurate but many of the responses so far are below the belt.
Was his post trying to improve the game, point out flaws that need to be changed or is he trying to get people to not play the game.
One is an admiral goal. The other is just a shitty thing to do to people who did nothing but try and make a fun game. So don't try and make it out like he's poor little innocent guy who people are attacking for no good reason. His title opens the door to the types of posts he's getting. If he's called it " why I didn't like firefall " the tone of the thread would be totally different.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Honestly, I had no desire to play this game until I read your "this game is too complex" post. Most of your points make the game seem more appealing to me. Thanks.
I'm thinking the exact same thing...
Me too, going to have to D/L it and try it now.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
OP is actually right here with all his points that he made.
I've played and bought my way in with a 20 dollar founders pack way back in the early closed beta stage, and the game was actually really fun back then.
With the new direction they are taking with this whole Open beta, they really changed a lot of things for the worse. They made the game less PvP and more PvE solo play. It's hard finding other people to do what you want to do, because you need specific resources for specific things and only 5% of the playerbase may also be after those specific resources you also need, so good luck finding thumper groups.
I played the game for almost 2 months straight, and got a bit tired because they were taking forever to implement new updates and the PvP and PvE (very little pve might I add) does get boring eventually, but I came back to try it out again after about a year of updates, and it has gotten so much worse. OP is right though, the crafting is now worse than it ever was, PvP is no fun anymore because they took out customizations which made you different from other people using the same battlesuits as you, they also made PvP more (balanced) in a sense that everyone gets better gear when you enter the arenas just incase you have crap gear, so it basically rules out you ever needing to actually attain gear.
I could go on and on, but ya, give the game a try. You might like it in its current state, but it just isn't the same game anymore and isn't worth playing in my opinion.
Originally posted by ozmono His entitled to his opinions and he detailed them. Some people here have made personal attacks against him or just called him full of shit and so on without even addressing what he is talking about. Not all but a few. It's disgusting. Oh and just because it's a free to play game doesn't mean it should be exempt from criticism, they still want your money for this product. I don't know if his points are accurate but many of the responses so far are below the belt.
Was his post trying to improve the game, point out flaws that need to be changed or is he trying to get people to not play the game.
One is an admiral goal. The other is just a shitty thing to do to people who did nothing but try and make a fun game. So don't try and make it out like he's poor little innocent guy who people are attacking for no good reason. His title opens the door to the types of posts he's getting. If he's called it " why I didn't like firefall " the tone of the thread would be totally different.
I'll do what I like without feeling guilt because I don't treat people like shit. The guy is entitled to his opinions. He tried the game didn't like it and gave reasons why. If you feel he is wrong try clearing the air rather than attacking him or someone defending him. As for the "poor little innocent developers", sure, they tried to make a fun game, they may have (I don't know) but honest feedback is worth alot more to them than people shooting down anyone not praising the game.
Originally posted by ozmono His entitled to his opinions and he detailed them. Some people here have made personal attacks against him or just called him full of shit and so on without even addressing what he is talking about. Not all but a few. It's disgusting. Oh and just because it's a free to play game doesn't mean it should be exempt from criticism, they still want your money for this product. I don't know if his points are accurate but many of the responses so far are below the belt.
Was his post trying to improve the game, point out flaws that need to be changed or is he trying to get people to not play the game.
One is an admiral goal. The other is just a shitty thing to do to people who did nothing but try and make a fun game. So don't try and make it out like he's poor little innocent guy who people are attacking for no good reason. His title opens the door to the types of posts he's getting. If he's called it " why I didn't like firefall " the tone of the thread would be totally different.
I'll do what I like without feeling guilt because I don't treat people like shit. The guy is entitled to his opinions. He tried the game didn't like it and gave reasons why. If you feel he is wrong try clearing the air rather than attacking him or someone defending him. As for the "poor little innocent developers", sure, they tried to make a fun game, they may have (I don't know) but honest feedback is worth alot more to them than people shooting down anyone not praising the game.
Comments
Number 7 really made me laugh.
Anyway...
And I also REALLY liked the open non-contentious way he started the post. Although I didn't know "fanbois" was a word, I thought that was just poor grammar...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Not sure who needs to read the post again, you or me?
There is a bit of both in there, complex crafting and so on but than he talks about alot of other things that don't exactly show the game in a positive light.
People for the most part seem all to eager to overlook the bad and focus on the positive though but the game is new and that's the current trend. Not sure if it was the intention of the poster or people are just desperate.
If you've played the game longer than the "Open Beta" time then you realize there's no need to refute ANY of his negatives as they are either completely false or extremely exaggerated.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Personally I have played quite a bit and have almost every frame unlocked, I have seen what you're referring to but it's NEVER impeded me.
Inventory...it's fairly useless and has worked all 5 times I've ever needed it.
Chat....again fairly useless.
I do hope they make it more challenging, personally.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
I'm not saying the OP is 100% correct. However, Its hard to find, but even on Firefall's forums you will find Founders who quietly admit to some of these issues. The fan boys try to cover it up with the usual "the devs are working hard, give them a chance" and such. But even occasionally a dev will come on the forums and admit a few of the "issues".
Like I said in my other post, I like the game and think its fun, but I'm also not going to sit here and basically call someone a liar for saying something negative about what I like. How are games ever going to change for the better if no one will admit there's a problem? This is a problem with a lot games these days due to their fans preferring to turn a blind eye rather than facing facts. I'm starting to think that MMOs need their own 12 step program.
Funny, the OP's post makes me want to try Firefall. Especially the complex crafting bit.
But there are a few things I am curious about though. How much you need to grind for resources to craft is one thing. And if there are so many different resource types, I wonder how restrictive they are going to make the inventory. Small inventory is one of my main petpeeves in MMO's. I really hate having to run back to town every minute because my inventory is full. That makes me stop playing very fast.
You have it wrong. It is truths that don't need refuting. It's fallacy and misleading comments that need to be refuted if you are to have a discussion which seeks to obtain truth. I don't know if the OP has it right or wrong but I do see overly defensive people ignoring his points and choosing to only comment that they like certain things which he does not.
In that regard it's no different to the hyped up people who flock to most big games upon their launch. Now that said people also go to the other extremes in these situation and that may be the case here but for the most part people aren't doing a good job of addressing what he is saying beyond reinforcing the positives, attacking him personally and ignoring the negatives.
Issues or none, shouldn't they be given a chance? This is Beta after all. A lot of the technical problems the OP mentioned were related to lag, which can only be caught by increasing load.
PS. I haven't touched the game. Just a neutral guy passing by.
I strongly agree. At least he detailed his reasons for not liking the game. For the most part they were valid concerns and complaints.
I think it wouldn't of mattered what he wrote in his post, half the people didn't read the post and admitted as much.
The title brought the hatorade.
I couldn't agree with this more. The lack of variety of the world and the lack of enemy types is a big turn off to me, but it's kinda like Guild Wars 2...it's not costing me a dime and I can drop in whenever I like for a bit of fun so it's well worth the minor amount of money I've invested.
I have been VERY impressed with the changes they've made, I don't agree with all of them but I do see the design purpose for them and the long-term benefit.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
A big part of the game revolves around thumping (which basically is a grind for resources. But its fun), and crafting. You don't have to craft, but another big part of the game is collecting all the battle frames and upgrading them which requires those resources and crafting if you don't want to buy the parts. The last big part are the dynamic events, which are like the rifts in Rift...of which you need the upgraded battle frames to partake in the harder levels of them...which circles back to thumping.
I agree with you, but It does impede a bit. The game heavily relies on crafting, yet with the SIN having problems since launch the battle garage and crafting stations spent many hours not working. As for chat, you're right, its not really needed. But since it requires chat commends in order to group up, it too does impede a bit.
I may not agree with the top few points in the ops post, but for the most part I'll agree with the rest.
First off, from what I've seen durability loss is a way of keeping players interested. I haven't played much with it as I've only used stock gear, but from how many materials and grinding is required to craft, in this game, I'll say Eves system is FAR better. Funner, I can't exactly nail the difference between the two, but it's there.
Second, the devs on this game have posted replies to more people than I've ever witnessed in a game before. I think they are doing a fantastic job at customer service, at least from the forum end, I couldn't tell you based on tickets and whatnot.
I will admit, out of the gate, world size is an issue for me. It probably wouldn't be as much of an issue though if the world fealt alive. I mean I wandered for a good hour, maybe two and found ZERO enemies. I uplinked with like 6 sin stations and defended a station against a chosen assualt that contained one enemy.
My last gripe with the game, at least in its current state, is how very little skill seems to be involved. It's billed as a game where skill matters, and as with most fps's that's what you would be led to believe. The problem is is the ai is just... bad. not the internal pathfinding and whatnots, but the overall ai health, damage, and accuracy. I mean I thumped once and out of the blue a big pylon lookin thing landed next to my thumper as soon as I had placed it and about 10 chosen spawned. A veteran of many first person shooters, I backed away quickly, using thrusters and zig zags. None of this mattered, as they took me down in less than two seconds. I respawned and sniped each one individually till the group was dead. For the most part when I attacked one the rest just stood there. The problem was the ones using bullets (as opposed to the large fireball looking things) could hit me no matter what I was doing. And they did Heavy damage. Huge. Much more than I could put out. On the very same note, unless you're wearing armor or are shielded in some way, a head shot should be a headshot...
Was his post trying to improve the game, point out flaws that need to be changed or is he trying to get people to not play the game.
One is an admiral goal. The other is just a shitty thing to do to people who did nothing but try and make a fun game. So don't try and make it out like he's poor little innocent guy who people are attacking for no good reason. His title opens the door to the types of posts he's getting. If he's called it " why I didn't like firefall " the tone of the thread would be totally different.
Me too, going to have to D/L it and try it now.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
OP is actually right here with all his points that he made.
I've played and bought my way in with a 20 dollar founders pack way back in the early closed beta stage, and the game was actually really fun back then.
With the new direction they are taking with this whole Open beta, they really changed a lot of things for the worse. They made the game less PvP and more PvE solo play. It's hard finding other people to do what you want to do, because you need specific resources for specific things and only 5% of the playerbase may also be after those specific resources you also need, so good luck finding thumper groups.
I played the game for almost 2 months straight, and got a bit tired because they were taking forever to implement new updates and the PvP and PvE (very little pve might I add) does get boring eventually, but I came back to try it out again after about a year of updates, and it has gotten so much worse. OP is right though, the crafting is now worse than it ever was, PvP is no fun anymore because they took out customizations which made you different from other people using the same battlesuits as you, they also made PvP more (balanced) in a sense that everyone gets better gear when you enter the arenas just incase you have crap gear, so it basically rules out you ever needing to actually attain gear.
I could go on and on, but ya, give the game a try. You might like it in its current state, but it just isn't the same game anymore and isn't worth playing in my opinion.
I'll do what I like without feeling guilt because I don't treat people like shit. The guy is entitled to his opinions. He tried the game didn't like it and gave reasons why. If you feel he is wrong try clearing the air rather than attacking him or someone defending him. As for the "poor little innocent developers", sure, they tried to make a fun game, they may have (I don't know) but honest feedback is worth alot more to them than people shooting down anyone not praising the game.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
You fail at reading.