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Demise of the MMO Communities

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

     

    That is such a narrow minded view.

    Why would i limit my enjoyment of MMO to social interaction? If a MMO has good instance missions, i will play it like a SP game. Is there a reason why i should not do so if that is fun to me?

    In fact, i don't see why I should treat MMO any different from other games. If it is fun in some parts, i will play it and ignore the parts i don't like.

    I don't advocate turning MMOs into anything. They are already like that. If devs want my time by catering to my taste, is there a reason i should refuse free fun? If they were not doing so, you think i would be here?

    WHOoooosh! Over your head and beyond your comprehension as usual.

    Narrow minded is trying to turn EVERY game of EVERY genre into the same type of game...as you constantly do, and your post history shows that.

    Narrow minded is not reading what i said .. specifically that "i don't advocate turning MMO into anything".

    I suppose you have no argument left and have to resort to personal attack ..  but that is what i expect from a narrow minded person.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Once again for the thick skulled crew....I never said I didn't like those types of games, just not when it comes to MMORPG's. Please read before selecting a particular portion of a post that fits your needs.

    That is your problem. Your mind is too inflexible to recognize that MMORPGs can be fill those other needs.

    When i want to fill an entertainment needs, i don't ask what genre the product is from, only if the specific product fits my needs. You will find more entertainment that way.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

    You apparently don't, you want games to cater to you, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of players want.  Luckily, that's not how the market works.  The people who have the biggest numbers and the most money win.

    That's not your side.

    He just don't understand. He thinks only he is right .. and if the market goes the other way .. devs owe him to turn it around.

    He won't admit that he wants MMOs to cater to his fun, and don't care about mine. He is just the same .. only with a different preference. The only difference is that he is on the wrong side of the market.

  • emistzemistz Member Posts: 54
    I just got back from vacation and had a chance to read back on all the posts posted since.  Great discussion!

    image

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Member Posts: 90
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

    You apparently don't, you want games to cater to you, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of players want.  Luckily, that's not how the market works.  The people who have the biggest numbers and the most money win.

    That's not your side.

    He just don't understand. He thinks only he is right .. and if the market goes the other way .. devs owe him to turn it around.

    He won't admit that he wants MMOs to cater to his fun, and don't care about mine. He is just the same .. only with a different preference. The only difference is that he is on the wrong side of the market.

    LOL!!! OMG..REALLY?!?

     

    You are amazingly full of it. Nearly every MMORPG on the market now caters to your fast fun gimme rewards now style of play...so HOW could I possibly be trying to keep you from it? Reaching bud...reaching.

    You just have absolutely no clue what separates different styles of games  and/or why there are different styles of games...or again...just don't care. Lemme give you a hint...for different tastes.

    You will find NOWHERE in my post history where I demanded a particular type of game, or said I was owed one. I have said it would be nice to see a particular type, but never demanded or otherwise.

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    Hell...you can find posts where I specifically said a mix of old and new would be great, because there are many things newer ones improved on (Combat for example). I have discussed about both sides. of the coin and how they could co-exist if someone just had the bag to do it..where as...viewing your post history, or just those others here that have had the unfortunate experience of reading your posts can see you have a one track mind.

     

    But apparently...members such as yourself and certain others here constantly feel the need to interject your "expert opinion" on the market and why it won't happen, etc. And generally troll any old school labeled thread and argue for the sake of arguing it seems.

    Anyways...I am done wasting my time trying to have a rational and intelligent conversation with you because we will just keep taking the same trip on this merry-go-round of BS you like to ride...and frankly, I am tired of it. We won't see eye to eye...nor will you make attempts to because as I said at the beginning....they nearly all cater to you anyways, and you will fight tooth and nail to counter anyone who has a difference in opinion and/or taste.

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,019

    My issue is, I don't remember the days when sense of community and working together was flourishing.

     

    I remember a time when people stood in hubs and barfed out LFG for minutes to hours, then ran power grinder group based content. I started playing MMO's about 8 to 10 years ago and the first 2 months, I didn't talk to anyone. All I saw in chat was LFG spam, go to my gold farmer site spam, guild recruitment spam, market spam. I didn't understand any of it and ignored it.

     

    It isn't that much different now. Only I now know I don't need to wait around for 5 other guys to rush a bunch of quests so they can get it over with and move on to .. the next lfg hub.

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Member Posts: 90
    Originally posted by free2play

    My issue is, I don't remember the days when sense of community and working together was flourishing.

     

    I remember a time when people stood in hubs and barfed out LFG for minutes to hours, then ran power grinder group based content. I started playing MMO's about 8 to 10 years ago and the first 2 months, I didn't talk to anyone. All I saw in chat was LFG spam, go to my gold farmer site spam, guild recruitment spam, market spam. I didn't understand any of it and ignored it.

     

    It isn't that much different now. Only I now know I don't need to wait around for 5 other guys to rush a bunch of quests so they can get it over with and move on to .. the next lfg hub.

    Well...it depends on a lot of factors too IMO. What MMORPG you played, the type of community it attracted (Was it more PvE or PvP based, etc.), your play style and interests within the game, the game's build, etc, etc, etc.

     

    Personally played EQ starting in 1999. It was heavily community based. It was a very long road leveling, and there were hell levels that took ridiculous long to grind out...honestly...if it weren't for the community on my server and the people I befriended within...I'd probably had given up long before I did (Played 5 years).

     

    But it also had loads of content, both solo and group based. Lots of it was too difficult to do alone...so the need for others was necessity for some of it. Which is what made you working on your reputation within that community and on that server for vital.

     

    It was like living in a small town. Almost everyone knew everyone. players were friendly and helpful (Although the occasional D-bag reared their head to be blacklisted by everyone).

     

    I've also played MANY MMORPG's since then...and each had a different type of community based on some of the factors above. None being like the 1st...although Vanguard: Saga of Heroes came very close.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

     

    Personally played EQ starting in 1999. It was heavily community based. It was a very long road leveling, and there were hell levels that took ridiculous long to grind out...honestly...if it weren't for the community on my server and the people I befriended within...I'd probably had given up long before I did (Played 5 years).

     

    Exactly why i quit after 1 year playing the game. Day in and day out grinding the same mobs with the same players got boring really fast.

    Chatting with some friends about their kids while waiting for the next respawn is not my idea of a good fun game. The miracle was that i did it for a year. I know better now.

     

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

     

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    He just don't understand. He thinks only he is right .. and if the market goes the other way .. devs owe him to turn it around.

    He won't admit that he wants MMOs to cater to his fun, and don't care about mine. He is just the same .. only with a different preference. The only difference is that he is on the wrong side of the market.

    The fact is, companies don't care about anyone's fun as a primary goal.  They care about their bottom line and that's it.  Providing fun gameplay to the largest number of people possible is their means to that end.  Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot, but unfortunately, there are an awful lot of entitlement-happy idiots around here.  They think games are all about them.  They're not.  They're all about making money for the developer.

    Some people need to wake up to reality.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

     

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

     

    Not unlike those who rant about easy-mode, lack of PD, lack of open world pvp, lack of FFA pvp, lack of sandbox ....

    I don't see why they should have a monopoly on flogging the dead horse.

    And since you don't respond to my point, i assume you agree that you are hypocritical. News flash, you are not the only one who has an opinion out there. Hard to shut people up on the internet, uh?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    He just don't understand. He thinks only he is right .. and if the market goes the other way .. devs owe him to turn it around.

    He won't admit that he wants MMOs to cater to his fun, and don't care about mine. He is just the same .. only with a different preference. The only difference is that he is on the wrong side of the market.

    The fact is, companies don't care about anyone's fun as a primary goal.  They care about their bottom line and that's it.  Providing fun gameplay to the largest number of people possible is their means to that end.  Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot, but unfortunately, there are an awful lot of entitlement-happy idiots around here.  They think games are all about them.  They're not.  They're all about making money for the developer.

    Some people need to wake up to reality.

    Or may be they will just keep on ranting here. Stick their head in the sand is less psychologically shocking than trying to see reality.

     

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Originally posted by Cephus404
     

    The fact is, companies don't care about anyone's fun as a primary goal.  They care about their bottom line and that's it.  Providing fun gameplay to the largest number of people possible is their means to that end.  Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot, but unfortunately, there are an awful lot of entitlement-happy idiots around here.  They think games are all about them.  They're not.  They're all about making money for the developer.

    Some people need to wake up to reality.

    This is pretty much it.  Although I think a better name than "idiot" could be used.  Ultimately the game studio is going to do what makes them money.  Either that means going for the safe bet of what has already been done before (basically WoW clone like LoTR, SWToR, RIFT) or go a different route such as Eve, GW2 or Darkfall.  Going a different route is not always safe (Darkfall), but lately neither is the dated industry standard of p2p, quest hub, trinity, and raids.  Look at the all of the theme parks that have followed that path.  Look at where they are at now.  We are finally starting to see other devs sack up and try something different.  I think that is why we are seeing more and more Kickstarter projects popping up.

    Doesn't matter if player A or player B loves that style of game.  You have to cater to players C-Z.  That's business 101.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    Why are the communities in small, rural areas are so close nit, friendly while the communities in larger cities such as New York, Detroit so dysfunctional and unfriendly? 

     

    I assume because they are all related...

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

     

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

     

    Not unlike those who rant about easy-mode, lack of PD, lack of open world pvp, lack of FFA pvp, lack of sandbox ....

    I don't see why they should have a monopoly on flogging the dead horse.

    And since you don't respond to my point, i assume you agree that you are hypocritical. News flash, you are not the only one who has an opinion out there. Hard to shut people up on the internet, uh?

    Do you not notice how many people around here keep responding to your posts in the same way Torgrim just did? You are the common denominator in this, but you seem to be ignorant and unaware of the fact or simply do not give a shit. I'll never understand why you do what you do, but I will say you do bring a little entertainment to a forum that is becoming about as interesting as the genre it covers.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,776

    It's because players don't stay in the game long enough to bond. This is the fault of the developers of the games we now have.

    I'll share an observation I recently encountered in my last MMORPG. The game is a popular game and it allows players to come and go whenever they wish. They can just log in and play. While I think the game is maintaining a decent population in terms of numbers, the individual players seem to come and go. There is a very high turn over rate. I had been playing on a higher population server and had been a member of 3 major guilds (300+ members). I have seen this happen to all 3 guilds I was in as well as almost all the major guilds on the server. A guild centers around a very active and prominent core.  This core tends to determine the direction of the entire guild. It's the core that all run dungeons together, PVP together, run missions/quests together etc etc. But one by one, the core burns out and stops playing after a short time. Some guilds adapt and keep cycling new blood into the ranks while others just die. The last guild I was in survived 2 such cycles of high turnover and replacing with new active members. But the 3rd cycle damaged the guild. Now it's fading away as it shrinks daily. This is the 3rd time this very pattern has happened to my previous guilds and as I have said, I have watched it affect every major guild on my server.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    He just don't understand. He thinks only he is right .. and if the market goes the other way .. devs owe him to turn it around.

    He won't admit that he wants MMOs to cater to his fun, and don't care about mine. He is just the same .. only with a different preference. The only difference is that he is on the wrong side of the market.

    The fact is, companies don't care about anyone's fun as a primary goal.  They care about their bottom line and that's it.  Providing fun gameplay to the largest number of people possible is their means to that end.  Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot, but unfortunately, there are an awful lot of entitlement-happy idiots around here.  They think games are all about them.  They're not.  They're all about making money for the developer.

    Some people need to wake up to reality.

    Or may be they will just keep on ranting here. Stick their head in the sand is less psychologically shocking than trying to see reality.

     

     

    You would be right if the majority is keeping the genre alive.  The problem its the small percentage who buy things in the cash shops.  It's no longer about subscription numbers because with free to play any person who creates an account(s) is a subscribers.   Numbers are meaningless.  They leave it free for people to test and play when they want to give a population to the people in the cash shops.  

    The idea of making games to reach as many players is outdated.  They keep it free so people will constantly play and have things to get people to pay in large amounts.   The generic nature of the games are due to ease and familiarity to push out successful cash shops games.  

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408
    When the Counterstrikers started to fall into the MMO scene, communities took a nosedive.  Why shouldn't they, when everyone is either your RL buddy on Ventrillo, or a target that's meant to be blasted away?

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,225
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

     

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

     

    QFT!!!!!!!

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
     

    QFT!!!!!!!

    If you have a counter to 'well, you are the minority in the market so there's less games for you', I'd love to hear it.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

     

     

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

     

    Not unlike those who rant about easy-mode, lack of PD, lack of open world pvp, lack of FFA pvp, lack of sandbox ....

    I don't see why they should have a monopoly on flogging the dead horse.

     

    They don't jump into every thread there is writing the exact same thing like you do.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,995
    Originally posted by emistz

    Is it just me or has there been a consistent decline in the community feel in MMOs since about 10 years ago?

    Every time I log into pretty much any MMO I can see less and less community work and more and more individual people doing their own thing.  Basically people soloing the game, along with a thousand other people who are also soloing the game in the same server. 

    I am not really sure what benefit you get from an MMO without group play, except of course I guess if it was a single player game you couldn't brag to others about your latest piece of epeen gear.

    I remember the days when people would group just for the fun of doing things together.  These days unless there is a specific incentive to do so most people keep to themselves.

    What do you think has brought this about?  A change in game culture? A change in culture as a whole where we have become more and more antisocial as a society? Or something else?

    It's funny how so many people cite games that are long gone or old as their reasoning for forcing group play, when those very games allowed for soloing as well. UO, DAOC, SWG, COH and many others. Those games had community because players in some way relied upon each other.

    The reasons for grouping weren't forced, or half-assed like today's mmos either. You were made to actually WANT to do things instead of need. In UO community was built from trade, dungeons, pvp (guildwars, faction, pking and pk protections, bounties), DAOC my main thing was some of the dungeons that I heard were so fun. In SWG it was taking down some of the bigger enemies and trade. I also had incentive to explore. Some of the player cities were awesome. In COH I grouped because it was just actually fun. Though Ill admit I spent the majority of my time solo. My point is, none of those games forced me to group for something. I wanted to because I was interested. Make me interested in joining a group again. Give me some content that I want to explore with others, regardless of whether it be action or craft based. Don't force me into stupid groups where I quickly join up with people only to finish the lame instanced dungeon to move on to the next with another group of strangers.

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Sure...I am on the minority side of the market...but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be here and discuss the possibility of a game I'd enjoy seeing around again. Or discuss features with others from old school games that would be nice to see again. Or reminisce about things from those games I and others enjoyed. I also never said I didn't like some things from newer games.

    It is pretty hypocritical of you when you complained about me exercising my right to be here and discuss my opinions.

    Your opinion is not the only one matters.

    Jumping into every game thread that talks about harsher gamestyle with your handheld,fastfood, 1 month enjoyment attitude is spamming and you don't discuss anything you write exactly the same thing over and over and over.

    Not unlike those who rant about easy-mode, lack of PD, lack of open world pvp, lack of FFA pvp, lack of sandbox ....

    I don't see why they should have a monopoly on flogging the dead horse.

    They don't jump into every thread there is writing the exact same thing like you do.

    But he's having fun and it's free. How can he resist ;) The only difference here though is that he never leaves the site unlike the disposable games that are tossed after quick dipping of the toes and a yawn.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    They don't jump into every thread there is writing the exact same thing like you do.

     

    When you're right, why do you have to say anything but the truth?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

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