It's going to be a game with "sandbox" features. Add to that a Cash Shop. I find it very difficult to see how having real money infused into an economy that is supposed to be (I'm assuming here) player driven can balance out. It's going to be tough not to foster an indirectly pay to win environment. I feel The Repopulation will face the same issues.
Originally posted by DamonVile Being a crappy game ruins the game, payment model doesn't make or break a game.
The payment model is usually the reason it's a crappy game in this case. EQ1 and 2 were great but when they switched to f2p, if you weren't subbed it was awful. If EQN starts out that way, the majority of people will not pay the sub because they don't have to, they wont enjoy it, and they'll leave. What makes MMOs great is the MASSIVELY part. If everyone's gone it's not nearly as fun imo
I currently play a game with one server and a maximum population at a given time of around 1000 people.
Now, since I've played this game when it had more, say around 2000 I'd say that would be the more preferable amount, but we're all still having big fun with as few as 350 people on line during my normal playing times.
Its a bit of an illusion to say you need mega millions of players to have fun, truth is if your server has about 2-3K players, its more than enough to have a very good MMORPG experience.
And no, F2P hasn't ruined any of the former sub titles such as EQ1/2, if anything it saved them from an early grave.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
SOE has done a good job with Planetside 2 and FTP. Obviously an RPG is different from an FPS but I don't think free players will be as restricted as they are in EQ1 and EQ2.
SOE president John Smedley has announced the 'Krono', a tradeable in-game item (similar to EVE's PLEX) which will grant players 30 days of premium membership time in whatever game the item is redeemed, during this year's SOELive keynote.
The Krono will only initially be available in EverQuest II (beginning October 29, 2012), but SOE plans to expand this availability further to other SOE games going forward.
SOE president John Smedley has announced the 'Krono', a tradeable in-game item (similar to EVE's PLEX) which will grant players 30 days of premium membership time in whatever game the item is redeemed, during this year's SOELive keynote.
The Krono will only initially be available in EverQuest II (beginning October 29, 2012), but SOE plans to expand this availability further to other SOE games going forward.
PLEX isn't the perfect solution either. I don't believe EVE is the almighty sandbox game it's cracked up to be. People talk about the success that it is. Yeah, it's a successful niche game. I don't care about active subs. I only care about is how many unique active players it has. EVE's PLEX system encouages multiple accounts. And while most players have 2 maybe 3, How many active accounts do the top players maintain? How many accounts is someone like Mittens able to maintain through PLEX? There are 2 issues here.
While I won't call it P2W. But PLEX certainly has allowed the current people at the top to stay there with no chance of being toppled....EVER! And also, for me, a game where having multiple accounts gets you an advantage or is highly encouraged to increase your overall experience, is a deal breaker. I went through that with Anarchy Online. I won't be doing it again. EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.
I don't care if the game is F2P as long as I can play and forget about the cash shop. If for some reason the game keeps remembering me that it would be great to buy credits for this and for that, it really ruins the experience. GW2 imo did a good job on this aspect. Neverwinter on the other hand did not.
EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.
i could be totally wrong
but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options
Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.
You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small. How is that not Freemium?
Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE. I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.
A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.
I have always hated the idea of F2P... til...Rift. I played the game during release and then Quit. I came back for F2P but with a Sub.. and Im loving it. Subs have never bothered me because they are such a trivial amount of money. I like the fact that I can spend RL cash to buy non P2W items, like mounts and Wardrobe.
If EQNext follows Trions lead on the F2P model, it will blow all competitors out of the water.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
F2P in and of itself will not make or break a game. It is the nature of the Cash Shop they use to support the F2P that does that.
Bad Cash Shops
Neverwinter Online with its Complete Heal, and AoE Rez items in the CS doesn't help as it allows $$ to replace players. Needing to buy stones to counteract the 1% item combine chances come endgame.
Dragon Prophet - take the free rez back in the newbie zone, or pay XX Station Cash to Rez where you lay. Want to Port around? More SC.
PWI/Diablo/Neverwinter - both allow direct conversion of Currency into in game money. What make the Eve model (maybe the EQ2 as well) a good model, is they also let you use in game Money to pay for your Subscriptions.
Any Game with a Lockbox Lotto - Spend a buck to buy a key. Mostly garbage rewards and then that BIS item pops out of one. Really?
Good Cash Shop
Path of Exile - Skill effect skins, weapon and armor skins, vanity pets, the only in game affecting thing the CS allows is expanding your Stash (Bank) and coloring/naming the various tabs.
A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.
regardless of the business model, I do expect SOE to use Krono or a similar PLEX system in EQN
-- how SOE incorporates that into the player economy is unclear
customer service declines, over community declines, hacking increase, scamming increases...but all of that is acceptable since profits increase too.
when EQ2 went ftp, none of this happened making the game worse
I was a subscriber during EQ2's ftp transition
I was subscribed at the time as well but when they did the transition it seemed more like they were trying to do an extended trial of the game rather than making their revenue from the F2P. At least in the beginning it felt that way. I did find it annoying however they kept dedicating their new art assets for armor and housing items to the cash shop instead of things we could earn in game as a subscriber, but that started even before the transition to F2P.
I'm starting to save my money for this game. I'm sure it will be a fun shopping experience. Even better than the mall. I'm thinking I will need around $375 to keep up with everyone for the 4 months or so I will play. Gotta have those 80% exp pots bro. Can't wait! And Everquest 3 pets DLC is just around the corner. Wooo!
p.s. The new justin bieder album just came out. It's awesome!
EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.
i could be totally wrong
but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options
Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.
You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small. How is that not Freemium?
Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE. I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.
A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.
That isn't how I've thought of Freemium. You're describing pretty much every game out there, even the least restrictive. Even Rift and Tera have slots, inventory space, bank slots, AH sell access, and such locked unless you pay for them. Even if that's your definition EQ2 still has stuff locked behind the sub and a lot of other things that cost to unlock or acquire.
I don't mind a sub option at all, but I hope it is like Tera or Rift's sub option. Those are great for leveling.
When I say features, I literally mean full fledged features, classes, races, skills, etc. When I say content, I mean things like zones, dungeons, raids, quests, etc.
Comments
It's going to be a game with "sandbox" features. Add to that a Cash Shop. I find it very difficult to see how having real money infused into an economy that is supposed to be (I'm assuming here) player driven can balance out. It's going to be tough not to foster an indirectly pay to win environment. I feel The Repopulation will face the same issues.
Same I was a subscriber, and still am to EQ2. None of these things happened at all.
I currently play a game with one server and a maximum population at a given time of around 1000 people.
Now, since I've played this game when it had more, say around 2000 I'd say that would be the more preferable amount, but we're all still having big fun with as few as 350 people on line during my normal playing times.
Its a bit of an illusion to say you need mega millions of players to have fun, truth is if your server has about 2-3K players, its more than enough to have a very good MMORPG experience.
And no, F2P hasn't ruined any of the former sub titles such as EQ1/2, if anything it saved them from an early grave.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i dont know what the player economy will bring
SOE has a virtual cash item similar to EVE's PLEX called Krono
I expect something similar will be offered in EQN
both SOE's Krono and EVE's PLEX are ingame items bought w real cash, and part of the player economy - seems to be working for EVE
http://www.evetimecode.com/what_is_plex.php
http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/loadNews/25848
SOE president John Smedley has announced the 'Krono', a tradeable in-game item (similar to EVE's PLEX) which will grant players 30 days of premium membership time in whatever game the item is redeemed, during this year's SOELive keynote.
The Krono will only initially be available in EverQuest II (beginning October 29, 2012), but SOE plans to expand this availability further to other SOE games going forward.
October 29, 2012
http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/29/krono-in-game-currency-going-live-today/
EQ2 fan sites
PLEX isn't the perfect solution either. I don't believe EVE is the almighty sandbox game it's cracked up to be. People talk about the success that it is. Yeah, it's a successful niche game. I don't care about active subs. I only care about is how many unique active players it has. EVE's PLEX system encouages multiple accounts. And while most players have 2 maybe 3, How many active accounts do the top players maintain? How many accounts is someone like Mittens able to maintain through PLEX? There are 2 issues here.
While I won't call it P2W. But PLEX certainly has allowed the current people at the top to stay there with no chance of being toppled....EVER! And also, for me, a game where having multiple accounts gets you an advantage or is highly encouraged to increase your overall experience, is a deal breaker. I went through that with Anarchy Online. I won't be doing it again. EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.
i could be totally wrong
but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options
EQ2 fan sites
Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.
A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.
I have always hated the idea of F2P... til...Rift. I played the game during release and then Quit. I came back for F2P but with a Sub.. and Im loving it. Subs have never bothered me because they are such a trivial amount of money. I like the fact that I can spend RL cash to buy non P2W items, like mounts and Wardrobe.
If EQNext follows Trions lead on the F2P model, it will blow all competitors out of the water.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
F2P in and of itself will not make or break a game. It is the nature of the Cash Shop they use to support the F2P that does that.
Bad Cash Shops
Neverwinter Online with its Complete Heal, and AoE Rez items in the CS doesn't help as it allows $$ to replace players. Needing to buy stones to counteract the 1% item combine chances come endgame.
Dragon Prophet - take the free rez back in the newbie zone, or pay XX Station Cash to Rez where you lay. Want to Port around? More SC.
PWI/Diablo/Neverwinter - both allow direct conversion of Currency into in game money. What make the Eve model (maybe the EQ2 as well) a good model, is they also let you use in game Money to pay for your Subscriptions.
Any Game with a Lockbox Lotto - Spend a buck to buy a key. Mostly garbage rewards and then that BIS item pops out of one. Really?
Good Cash Shop
Path of Exile - Skill effect skins, weapon and armor skins, vanity pets, the only in game affecting thing the CS allows is expanding your Stash (Bank) and coloring/naming the various tabs.
regardless of the business model, I do expect SOE to use Krono or a similar PLEX system in EQN
-- how SOE incorporates that into the player economy is unclear
EQ2 fan sites
I was subscribed at the time as well but when they did the transition it seemed more like they were trying to do an extended trial of the game rather than making their revenue from the F2P. At least in the beginning it felt that way. I did find it annoying however they kept dedicating their new art assets for armor and housing items to the cash shop instead of things we could earn in game as a subscriber, but that started even before the transition to F2P.
I'm starting to save my money for this game. I'm sure it will be a fun shopping experience. Even better than the mall. I'm thinking I will need around $375 to keep up with everyone for the 4 months or so I will play. Gotta have those 80% exp pots bro. Can't wait! And Everquest 3 pets DLC is just around the corner. Wooo!
p.s. The new justin bieder album just came out. It's awesome!
When I say features, I literally mean full fledged features, classes, races, skills, etc. When I say content, I mean things like zones, dungeons, raids, quests, etc.