All you have to do is look at SWTOR to see that LucasArts was the worst thing that ever happened to Star Wars MMORPGs. Thankfully they no longer exist. Unfortunately the next SW MMO (if it ever happens) will likely be another EA game.
Anyway the SOE of yore was under a different division of Sony (Sony Pictures) and had different bosses. SOE now lives under the SCE division and has to answer directly to the people running the gaming division and not the movie division.
That alone is enough to give me new found hope. But I also believe in second chances, and realize that while SoE has made mistakes, they have also created my favorite virtual worlds.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
Lets be honest no one knows what happen with the NGE there is no PROOF either side caused it. What we do know is LA owned the copyrights if they were not happy with the change they could of stepped in so OBVIOUSLY they wanted it.
Second. You're one of them people who think they should of just let Vanguard die. Instead of keeping a game going that people do enjoy. When was the last time you played Vanguard ? Oh wait you never played to begin with did you ?
First comes the denial, then the personal attacks come rolling in.
I never mentioned anything about wanting Vanguard to die, so I'm not sure where you pulled that out of. I actually did play the game at launch and it was a friggin mess to say the least.
So you played Vanguard 6.5 years ago and still think it's the same buggy mess it was then? Nope the game is not bugless but it's no where near the same games as it was at release. As for support, well at first it was getting plenty of support and admittedly it really did fall off but since the last year or so it's doing just fine.
As for SWG, did you actually play the game or are you one of these that actually jumped on the bandwagon but never even played the game.
The better question is how many of the hypocrites said they would never play a SOE game again but are now drooling over EQN.
Regardless of Smedly's guilt or innocence (I'm not personally a fan myself), there are other extenuating factors.
SWG was a runaway train heading for a disaster. The type of game it was required a high diversity of player base skills. I don't believe SOE ever thought the number of players willing to engage in the "Jedi Grind" would be as high as it was. They designed the game thinking that only the top percent of the hardcore base would become Jedi. It wasn't the case. At least on my galaxy, everyone wanted to become a Jedi. There is no way the game could support this. Regardless of what people thing happened or who is to blame, the SWG that we all remember was not sustainable. So, a change was needed one way or another.
Vanguard was just a Developmental mess from the word go.
THAT SAID, I have to ask, what happened? What is with the blatant SOE worship? I never thought I'd see the day that SOE would receive this type of adoration. I can understand letting go of the past and saying SOE has been putting more effort into their products in recent years, or even saying that not all of the negative changes that took place were their fault. But this seems to be going much farther than that. People are behaving like they're the savior of the industry.
I too haven't seen any "SOE worship". The OP made a post that was blatant false misinformation and people came to correct him.
SOE has made some great games. But remember, the opposition "The wow fanboys" are much larger than the EQ, SWG and planetside fanbase. So a lot of "hate" you are talking about isn't even from dissatisfied SOE customers. It's from Blizzard and asian game fans.
When it comes down to it, SOE is a good company. How can anyone say otherwise? They made EQ and everyone knows EQ is an example of what MMOs should* be like.
On top of that, SOE does listen to their fans. We have been yelling for a sandbox MMO for ages. No one has delivered a fantasy sandbox MMO of any real merit. So take EQ + Sandbox + Next Gen and throw it all in one line of promotion and you're going to get some hype, and rightfully so. Or as I said in a previous post, more like Hope than Hype.
Same reason why people fell for Neverwinter and GW2 hype.
People are so desperate for great solid MMO that they will follow and MMO blindly that is in development. Desperation is a dangerous thing for consumers and the ideal trait for publishers.
People will come to EQN in massive droves blindly and many will leave.
Same reason why people fell for Neverwinter and GW2 hype.
People are so desperate for great solid MMO that they will follow and MMO blindly that is in development. Desperation is a dangerous thing for consumers and the ideal trait for publishers.
People will come to EQN in massive droves blindly and many will leave.
Perhaps the non EQ players fall for the hype but there are many of us EQ vets that will play EQN no matter the hype, some of us have been playing the EQ IP for 14 years.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
What part of 'no other company wanted to touch Vanguard' you do not understand? So obviously game was released with help of SOE. It was originally backed by MS. When they backed out t Sigil sought many companies for publishing their game as they were in trouble financially and were never able to complete the game properly.
And Smedly has already mentioned in the interview that it was LA's idea to change SWG to attract more players after WOW's release. And honestly this is an old news.
Stop being so stubborn, there is no shame in being wrong.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
Regardless of Smedly's guilt or innocence (I'm not personally a fan myself), there are other extenuating factors.
SWG was a runaway train heading for a disaster. The type of game it was required a high diversity of player base skills. I don't believe SOE ever thought the number of players willing to engage in the "Jedi Grind" would be as high as it was. They designed the game thinking that only the top percent of the hardcore base would become Jedi. It wasn't the case. At least on my galaxy, everyone wanted to become a Jedi. There is no way the game could support this. Regardless of what people thing happened or who is to blame, the SWG that we all remember was not sustainable. So, a change was needed one way or another.
Vanguard was just a Developmental mess from the word go.
Yup. It was SWG was also bleeding subs hard even before NGE.
Vanguard wasn't a "Developmental mess", not "really". Us designers call it "Out of scope". When you dare to dream too big or innovate too much for how much time/budget you have. Which is a bit ironic because a lot of people cry that games aren't innovating, or that they don't have enough content, but then call games like Vanguard "A mess". Yes the game did launch a mess, but it was because they dared to dream big and they ran out of time/funding.
I think Vanguard deserves more credit than it got. It had an absolutely huge non-instanced world, a really advanced crafting and deplo system, an insane amount of playable classes and races, all of which had unique mechanics. Multiple starting cities, etc etc. If they had another 6 - 12 months development time it could have launched as an amazing product.
So yes, you could say it the development of Vanguard was a mess, but in a good way. I think a lot of credit should be given to game designers that gamble like they did. It takes a lot of courage to not just spit out the same old garbage for a quick buck.
Which is also why a lot of people have high hopes for EQN. It's EQ + next gen + sandbox. Even with that small amount of info, it's more than enough to make people go crazy lol.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
What part of 'no other company wanted to touch Vanguard' you do not understand? So obviously game was released with help of SOE. It was originally backed by MS. When they backed out t Sigil sought many companies for publishing their game as they were in trouble financially and were never able to complete the game properly.
And Smedly has already mentioned in the interview that it was LA's idea to change SWG to attract more players after WOW's release. And honestly this is an old news.
Stop being so stubborn, there is no shame in being wrong.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
You would rather have the game die ? If they let it die they would not be able to do what they're doing now.
They linked a quote from a LA employee saying the NGE was LA yet you ignore this ?
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
What part of 'no other company wanted to touch Vanguard' you do not understand? So obviously game was released with help of SOE. It was originally backed by MS. When they backed out t Sigil sought many companies for publishing their game as they were in trouble financially and were never able to complete the game properly.
And Smedly has already mentioned in the interview that it was LA's idea to change SWG to attract more players after WOW's release. And honestly this is an old news.
Stop being so stubborn, there is no shame in being wrong.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
The link is just on the last page to show it was LA calling shots. And do i blame SOE for not pumping too much money into a mess like VG? nope. They were already focusing on EQ2 those days. They did Sigil a favor and published the game when no other company would. Either it was SOE or shut the game down for good.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Same reason why people fell for Neverwinter and GW2 hype.
People are so desperate for great solid MMO that they will follow and MMO blindly that is in development. Desperation is a dangerous thing for consumers and the ideal trait for publishers.
People will come to EQN in massive droves blindly and many will leave.
Even if EQN isn't great, it'll still be better than just about everything else on the market currently lol.
THAT SAID, I have to ask, what happened? What is with the blatant SOE worship? I never thought I'd see the day that SOE would receive this type of adoration. I can understand letting go of the past and saying SOE has been putting more effort into their products in recent years, or even saying that not all of the negative changes that took place were their fault. But this seems to be going much farther than that. People are behaving like they're the savior of the industry.
Another person jumping to conclusions without reading the topic.
No one is defending SOE. People are defending factual information. And even posted the links for the factual information many times now to prove OP wrong.
SOE has screwed up many times but when it comes to Vanguard and SWG..it isn't fair to blame them even though it was LA and Sigil/Microsoft who screwed up.
I haven't seen any SOE worship here but people trying to correct OP.
I want to make something clear to the people who replied to me: I didn't mean to come across the way I did. I fully admit I didn't ready through every post (It would take quite some time) and I'm not fully updated on the SOE situation. Quite frankly, I let go of the whole SWG issue a long time ago and have moved on. I've been busy playing other MMO's and, while I have tried most of SOE's new releases, I haven't spent very much time with any of them. So I haven't been very involved with the SOE politics.
You probably did sense some bitterness in my post, and I shouldn't have used as strong of words as I did like 'fanboys' and 'haters'. Most if not all of what I said, was speculation on my part. I was just offering my own 'theories' if you will, as to the whole climate change with SOE. I've been out of the scene, as I've said, and I was hoping someone would come along and correct me and tell me what's changed. To be honest, a large part of my bitterness comes from the fact that I used to play EQ2 and SWG NGE not long after people were still very upset over the whole NGE thing and people treated me like I was a sort of traitor. I remember even reading these forums and seeing people bash anyone who supported SOE. I think when I saw the paradigm shift, it made me feel like people were people hypocrites.
But the truth of the matter is, most of those people probably are not even on these forums anymore. And it also sounds like a lot of new information has been released. I Intend to read the links people have provided and, purely out of curiosity, see what I missed with the whole blame game of SOE VS LA. If anyone has any links on anything that isn't posted on this thread, feel free to PM them to me.
Same reason why people fell for Neverwinter and GW2 hype.
People are so desperate for great solid MMO that they will follow and MMO blindly that is in development. Desperation is a dangerous thing for consumers and the ideal trait for publishers.
People will come to EQN in massive droves blindly and many will leave.
[mod edit]
If he didn't buy things because the company who made them made bad decisions in the past he wouldn't own a PC to post on these forums or an ipad, google crap, or anything else. No Company is perfect.
In response to those who continue to believe that my statements regarding the NGE are inaccurate and that Smedley / SOE were not responsible can refer to the link below where Smedley takes full responsibility for the CU and NGE, never once suggesting that LA was involved.
President of Sony Online Entertainment John Smedley has apologised for decisions made on the direction of Star Wars Galaxies, describing then as "stupid" and a "complete and utter fail".
Smedley defended the decision at the time, citing the need to revamp the game in order to stem the loss of subscribers the game was suffering. Instead, however, the updates sparked in-game demonstrations and further player exoduses. Sony subsequently offered refunds to players who bought the Trials Of Obi-Wan expansion as it was released two days prior to the implementation of NGE.
"Stupid decisions," Smedley wrote in response to a question from a user, "Complete and utter fail and I am very sorry."
Except he never says it was SOE who wanted to do the NGE.
He apologized to fans because that is his job he had to. SOE was the face of SWG the NGE was horrible and LA sure wasn't going to step up and take responsibility were they.
SOE obviously agreed to do the NGE all his apologize says is doing the NGE was a bad decision. He never once said it was his idea.
In response to those who continue to believe that my statements regarding the NGE are inaccurate and that Smedley / SOE were not responsible can refer to the link below where Smedley takes full responsibility for the CU and NGE, never once suggesting that LA was involved.
President of Sony Online Entertainment John Smedley has apologised for decisions made on the direction of Star Wars Galaxies, describing then as "stupid" and a "complete and utter fail".
Smedley defended the decision at the time, citing the need to revamp the game in order to stem the loss of subscribers the game was suffering. Instead, however, the updates sparked in-game demonstrations and further player exoduses. Sony subsequently offered refunds to players who bought the Trials Of Obi-Wan expansion as it was released two days prior to the implementation of NGE.
"Stupid decisions," Smedley wrote in response to a question from a user, "Complete and utter fail and I am very sorry."
I like how you completely ignored the post i made earlier. Obvioisly since you want to put all blame on SOE you won't even bother to reply and ignore it again but still here it is...
Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts, responded to the changes in the game and the angry objections by disgruntled players. I quote her remarks from the article at length, since, um, you have to see them to believe them.
Ms. MacIntyre: "We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base ... There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an option to be part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
The is all the proof anyone need to see it was LA calling shots not SOE. And you can not just simply say no to LA.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Bottom line is SoE make's quality games, they've stumbled in the past and apologized for it. I need only to look at their track record with Everquest and Everquest 2 to deem them not only worth of my trust but also of my money and time. If you are looking at anything OTHER than their track record with the Everquest Franchise then you are simply searching for reasons to be disgruntled.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
What part of 'no other company wanted to touch Vanguard' you do not understand? So obviously game was released with help of SOE. It was originally backed by MS. When they backed out t Sigil sought many companies for publishing their game as they were in trouble financially and were never able to complete the game properly.
And Smedly has already mentioned in the interview that it was LA's idea to change SWG to attract more players after WOW's release. And honestly this is an old news.
Stop being so stubborn, there is no shame in being wrong.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
You would rather have the game die ? If they let it die they would not be able to do what they're doing now.
They linked a quote from a LA employee saying the NGE was LA yet you ignore this ?
What does that have to do with anything? Whether I would want a game to die or not doesn't change the fact that SOE put Vanguard on maintenance mode barely a year after its release. They were down to a single developer working on bugs for quite a few years and have only recently started investing into the game again, yet it is a slow go even now.
Was that LA employee privy to the upper management decisions at SOE? These companies are not idiots, they do go into IP contracts with the intent on protecting their own interests and if you think for one moment that a very large and very powerful company like Sony is going to let LA push them around without some kind of contingencies, then you are clueless. License holders have a lot of power, but so do the companies using said IPs. The only explanation for SOE going down the Cu / NGE road is that they agreed with LA that the changes would be in the best interests of the stock holders. They made a gamble that failed and Smedley was unwilling to own up to their share of the blame.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 OP, it's not hype this time. I think EQ Next is very real, and the blog and online editors who have glimpsed it, say it's a game-changer. Took E3. By a large margin, from what I've heard.
EQN wasn't at E3. They are demoing at SOE Live for the first time. That happens in about 1 month.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 OP, it's not hype this time. I think EQ Next is very real, and the blog and online editors who have glimpsed it, say it's a game-changer. Took E3. By a large margin, from what I've heard.
EQN wasn't at E3. They are demoing at SOE Live for the first time. That happens in about 1 month.
Press got a behind the scenes viewing at E3 , who then subsequently awarded it best of E3.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
So, your post is entirely inaccurate.
First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.
Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.
Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.
The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game. This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts
Second:
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, game was released in January of 2007. SOE then aquired Sigil in May of 2007. Shortly after that, support for the game went downhill when most of the Sigil staff were either laid off or reallocated to other games.
What part of 'no other company wanted to touch Vanguard' you do not understand? So obviously game was released with help of SOE. It was originally backed by MS. When they backed out t Sigil sought many companies for publishing their game as they were in trouble financially and were never able to complete the game properly.
And Smedly has already mentioned in the interview that it was LA's idea to change SWG to attract more players after WOW's release. And honestly this is an old news.
Stop being so stubborn, there is no shame in being wrong.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
You would rather have the game die ? If they let it die they would not be able to do what they're doing now.
They linked a quote from a LA employee saying the NGE was LA yet you ignore this ?
What does that have to do with anything? Whether I would want a game to die or not doesn't change the fact that SOE put Vanguard on maintenance mode barely a year after its release. They were down to a single developer working on bugs for quite a few years and have only recently started investing into the game again, yet it is a slow go even now.
Was that LA employee privy to the upper management decisions at SOE? These companies are not idiots, they do go into IP contracts with the intent on protecting their own interests and if you think for one moment that a very large and very powerful company like Sony is going to let LA push them around without some kind of contingencies, then you are clueless. License holders have a lot of power, but so do the companies using said IPs. The only explanation for SOE going down the Cu / NGE road is that they agreed with LA that the changes would be in the best interests of the stock holders. They made a gamble that failed and Smedley was unwilling to own up to their share of the blame.
Senior Game Director isn't high up enough for you ?
Unwilling ? He apologized and offered refunds to players. SOE took the blame period. Did you hear anything about LA apologizing for it ? No because LA could give a flying fuck about the players and fans and the history of LA shows that.
Let's be real here people. LA pushed for the change and SOE said ok. SOE has some blame, but in the end it was a LA decision.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
Yes Smed is often full of crap, but you could at least get your facts right. SoE published Vanguard, but Brad McQuaid and Vigil were the ones responsible for it. By the time that SoE acquired the rights for it, the game was already well past launch.
Smed never promised long term support or expansion packs for it. SoE purchased a dud, it didn't perform well and was never going to make them any significant cash, so why would they support it financially?
SoE isn't a charity. At work I don't go around wasting my time and effort on things that don't make me money, why would they?
What does that have to do with anything? Whether I would want a game to die or not doesn't change the fact that SOE put Vanguard on maintenance mode barely a year after its release. They were down to a single developer working on bugs for quite a few years and have only recently started investing into the game again, yet it is a slow go even now.
Was that LA employee privy to the upper management decisions at SOE? These companies are not idiots, they do go into IP contracts with the intent on protecting their own interests and if you think for one moment that a very large and very powerful company like Sony is going to let LA push them around without some kind of contingencies, then you are clueless. License holders have a lot of power, but so do the companies using said IPs. The only explanation for SOE going down the Cu / NGE road is that they agreed with LA that the changes would be in the best interests of the stock holders. They made a gamble that failed and Smedley was unwilling to own up to their share of the blame.
You are extremely* confused on how licensing works for video games. Liscensors have a ton of power in how their product is used and legal documents can only go so far.
LA had a huge amount of influence on SWG. There is no doubt about that, and NGE was pushed from LA.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 OP, it's not hype this time. I think EQ Next is very real, and the blog and online editors who have glimpsed it, say it's a game-changer. Took E3. By a large margin, from what I've heard.
EQN wasn't at E3. They are demoing at SOE Live for the first time. That happens in about 1 month.
Press got a behind the scenes viewing at E3 , who then subsequently awarded it best of E3.
Well that's news to me.
Glad to hear it though. I can't wait to see it for myself next month.
Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.
A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO.
At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs. We all know how that went.
So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game? Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?
Yes Smed is often full of crap, but you could at least get your facts right. SoE published Vanguard, but Brad McQuaid and Vigil were the ones responsible for it. By the time that SoE acquired the rights for it, the game was already well past launch.
Smed never promised long term support or expansion packs for it. SoE purchased a dud, it didn't perform well and was never going to make them any significant cash, so why would they support it financially?
SoE isn't a charity. At work I don't go around wasting my time and effort on things that don't make me money, why would they?
You would think that most companies in the same position would close down a game they barely support with a few bug fixes over the years, let alone all of the content that any other MMO would have implemented over that time period. I find your attitude toward such a bad business practice to be rather disturbing and perhaps representative of the gamer population's penchant to support crappy games due to their addiction.
Comments
Anyway the SOE of yore was under a different division of Sony (Sony Pictures) and had different bosses. SOE now lives under the SCE division and has to answer directly to the people running the gaming division and not the movie division.
That alone is enough to give me new found hope. But I also believe in second chances, and realize that while SoE has made mistakes, they have also created my favorite virtual worlds.
So you played Vanguard 6.5 years ago and still think it's the same buggy mess it was then? Nope the game is not bugless but it's no where near the same games as it was at release. As for support, well at first it was getting plenty of support and admittedly it really did fall off but since the last year or so it's doing just fine.
As for SWG, did you actually play the game or are you one of these that actually jumped on the bandwagon but never even played the game.
The better question is how many of the hypocrites said they would never play a SOE game again but are now drooling over EQN.
Regardless of Smedly's guilt or innocence (I'm not personally a fan myself), there are other extenuating factors.
SWG was a runaway train heading for a disaster. The type of game it was required a high diversity of player base skills. I don't believe SOE ever thought the number of players willing to engage in the "Jedi Grind" would be as high as it was. They designed the game thinking that only the top percent of the hardcore base would become Jedi. It wasn't the case. At least on my galaxy, everyone wanted to become a Jedi. There is no way the game could support this. Regardless of what people thing happened or who is to blame, the SWG that we all remember was not sustainable. So, a change was needed one way or another.
Vanguard was just a Developmental mess from the word go.
I too haven't seen any "SOE worship". The OP made a post that was blatant false misinformation and people came to correct him.
SOE has made some great games. But remember, the opposition "The wow fanboys" are much larger than the EQ, SWG and planetside fanbase. So a lot of "hate" you are talking about isn't even from dissatisfied SOE customers. It's from Blizzard and asian game fans.
When it comes down to it, SOE is a good company. How can anyone say otherwise? They made EQ and everyone knows EQ is an example of what MMOs should* be like.
On top of that, SOE does listen to their fans. We have been yelling for a sandbox MMO for ages. No one has delivered a fantasy sandbox MMO of any real merit. So take EQ + Sandbox + Next Gen and throw it all in one line of promotion and you're going to get some hype, and rightfully so. Or as I said in a previous post, more like Hope than Hype.
Hope that clears things up for you.
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Same reason why people fell for Neverwinter and GW2 hype.
People are so desperate for great solid MMO that they will follow and MMO blindly that is in development. Desperation is a dangerous thing for consumers and the ideal trait for publishers.
People will come to EQN in massive droves blindly and many will leave.
Perhaps the non EQ players fall for the hype but there are many of us EQ vets that will play EQN no matter the hype, some of us have been playing the EQ IP for 14 years.
Smedley has been caught lying before, so I'll take his finger pointing as the usual response any company would make to ensure their survival. Lucas was the license holder, but I can assure you, SOE was just as responsible for the CU and NGE as anyone who was involved with the game. If they thought the game would bomb as a result of the changes, they would have dropped it right then and there if the situation really were "make the changes or lose your license".
How many years has Vanguard been on maintenance mode since SOE acquired it? It's only been within the last year that they actually started to do anything more than bug updates.
Yup. It was SWG was also bleeding subs hard even before NGE.
Vanguard wasn't a "Developmental mess", not "really". Us designers call it "Out of scope". When you dare to dream too big or innovate too much for how much time/budget you have. Which is a bit ironic because a lot of people cry that games aren't innovating, or that they don't have enough content, but then call games like Vanguard "A mess". Yes the game did launch a mess, but it was because they dared to dream big and they ran out of time/funding.
I think Vanguard deserves more credit than it got. It had an absolutely huge non-instanced world, a really advanced crafting and deplo system, an insane amount of playable classes and races, all of which had unique mechanics. Multiple starting cities, etc etc. If they had another 6 - 12 months development time it could have launched as an amazing product.
So yes, you could say it the development of Vanguard was a mess, but in a good way. I think a lot of credit should be given to game designers that gamble like they did. It takes a lot of courage to not just spit out the same old garbage for a quick buck.
Which is also why a lot of people have high hopes for EQN. It's EQ + next gen + sandbox. Even with that small amount of info, it's more than enough to make people go crazy lol.
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You would rather have the game die ? If they let it die they would not be able to do what they're doing now.
They linked a quote from a LA employee saying the NGE was LA yet you ignore this ?
The link is just on the last page to show it was LA calling shots. And do i blame SOE for not pumping too much money into a mess like VG? nope. They were already focusing on EQ2 those days. They did Sigil a favor and published the game when no other company would. Either it was SOE or shut the game down for good.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Even if EQN isn't great, it'll still be better than just about everything else on the market currently lol.
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I want to make something clear to the people who replied to me: I didn't mean to come across the way I did. I fully admit I didn't ready through every post (It would take quite some time) and I'm not fully updated on the SOE situation. Quite frankly, I let go of the whole SWG issue a long time ago and have moved on. I've been busy playing other MMO's and, while I have tried most of SOE's new releases, I haven't spent very much time with any of them. So I haven't been very involved with the SOE politics.
You probably did sense some bitterness in my post, and I shouldn't have used as strong of words as I did like 'fanboys' and 'haters'. Most if not all of what I said, was speculation on my part. I was just offering my own 'theories' if you will, as to the whole climate change with SOE. I've been out of the scene, as I've said, and I was hoping someone would come along and correct me and tell me what's changed. To be honest, a large part of my bitterness comes from the fact that I used to play EQ2 and SWG NGE not long after people were still very upset over the whole NGE thing and people treated me like I was a sort of traitor. I remember even reading these forums and seeing people bash anyone who supported SOE. I think when I saw the paradigm shift, it made me feel like people were people hypocrites.
But the truth of the matter is, most of those people probably are not even on these forums anymore. And it also sounds like a lot of new information has been released. I Intend to read the links people have provided and, purely out of curiosity, see what I missed with the whole blame game of SOE VS LA. If anyone has any links on anything that isn't posted on this thread, feel free to PM them to me.
If he didn't buy things because the company who made them made bad decisions in the past he wouldn't own a PC to post on these forums or an ipad, google crap, or anything else. No Company is perfect.
In response to those who continue to believe that my statements regarding the NGE are inaccurate and that Smedley / SOE were not responsible can refer to the link below where Smedley takes full responsibility for the CU and NGE, never once suggesting that LA was involved.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/
President of Sony Online Entertainment John Smedley has apologised for decisions made on the direction of Star Wars Galaxies, describing then as "stupid" and a "complete and utter fail".
In an Ask Me Anything on Reddit, Smedley offered a candid apology for the controversial Combat Upgrade (CU) and New Game Enhancement (NGE) updates, which between them removed the ability of players with combat professions to stack defensive abilities, significantly reduced and simplified gameplay mechanics and professions and made Jedi a starting profession.
Smedley defended the decision at the time, citing the need to revamp the game in order to stem the loss of subscribers the game was suffering. Instead, however, the updates sparked in-game demonstrations and further player exoduses. Sony subsequently offered refunds to players who bought the Trials Of Obi-Wan expansion as it was released two days prior to the implementation of NGE.
"Stupid decisions," Smedley wrote in response to a question from a user, "Complete and utter fail and I am very sorry."
Except he never says it was SOE who wanted to do the NGE.
He apologized to fans because that is his job he had to. SOE was the face of SWG the NGE was horrible and LA sure wasn't going to step up and take responsibility were they.
SOE obviously agreed to do the NGE all his apologize says is doing the NGE was a bad decision. He never once said it was his idea.
I like how you completely ignored the post i made earlier. Obvioisly since you want to put all blame on SOE you won't even bother to reply and ignore it again but still here it is...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/arts/10star.html?_r=0
Credit to Halasradar on EQ forums:
About Betrayal... and SWG
Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts, responded to the changes in the game and the angry objections by disgruntled players. I quote her remarks from the article at length, since, um, you have to see them to believe them.
Ms. MacIntyre: "We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base ... There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an option to be part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1215/p25s01-algn.html
The is all the proof anyone need to see it was LA calling shots not SOE. And you can not just simply say no to LA.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
So it's still cool to hate SoE then?
Bottom line is SoE make's quality games, they've stumbled in the past and apologized for it. I need only to look at their track record with Everquest and Everquest 2 to deem them not only worth of my trust but also of my money and time. If you are looking at anything OTHER than their track record with the Everquest Franchise then you are simply searching for reasons to be disgruntled.
What does that have to do with anything? Whether I would want a game to die or not doesn't change the fact that SOE put Vanguard on maintenance mode barely a year after its release. They were down to a single developer working on bugs for quite a few years and have only recently started investing into the game again, yet it is a slow go even now.
Was that LA employee privy to the upper management decisions at SOE? These companies are not idiots, they do go into IP contracts with the intent on protecting their own interests and if you think for one moment that a very large and very powerful company like Sony is going to let LA push them around without some kind of contingencies, then you are clueless. License holders have a lot of power, but so do the companies using said IPs. The only explanation for SOE going down the Cu / NGE road is that they agreed with LA that the changes would be in the best interests of the stock holders. They made a gamble that failed and Smedley was unwilling to own up to their share of the blame.
EQN wasn't at E3. They are demoing at SOE Live for the first time. That happens in about 1 month.
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Press got a behind the scenes viewing at E3 , who then subsequently awarded it best of E3.
Senior Game Director isn't high up enough for you ?
Unwilling ? He apologized and offered refunds to players. SOE took the blame period. Did you hear anything about LA apologizing for it ? No because LA could give a flying fuck about the players and fans and the history of LA shows that.
Let's be real here people. LA pushed for the change and SOE said ok. SOE has some blame, but in the end it was a LA decision.
Yes Smed is often full of crap, but you could at least get your facts right. SoE published Vanguard, but Brad McQuaid and Vigil were the ones responsible for it. By the time that SoE acquired the rights for it, the game was already well past launch.
Smed never promised long term support or expansion packs for it. SoE purchased a dud, it didn't perform well and was never going to make them any significant cash, so why would they support it financially?
SoE isn't a charity. At work I don't go around wasting my time and effort on things that don't make me money, why would they?
You are extremely* confused on how licensing works for video games. Liscensors have a ton of power in how their product is used and legal documents can only go so far.
LA had a huge amount of influence on SWG. There is no doubt about that, and NGE was pushed from LA.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Well that's news to me.
Glad to hear it though. I can't wait to see it for myself next month.
Just looked it up. Sounds great.
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You would think that most companies in the same position would close down a game they barely support with a few bug fixes over the years, let alone all of the content that any other MMO would have implemented over that time period. I find your attitude toward such a bad business practice to be rather disturbing and perhaps representative of the gamer population's penchant to support crappy games due to their addiction.