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Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand.

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Comments

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662

    The freedom allotted in FFA PvP or Open-world PvP is too great of a responsibility for some players to bear. Abusers most often take it for granted in meaning they get to use it however they choose. And that's fine, but doing so negatively, does come with a heavy cost. And it's exactly this cost that they never think about. Especially when it comes to mindset of their more PvE oriented neighbors and their views of seeing FFA/open-world PvP as a overall positive feature. They simply chalk it up as carebear whining when they complain about ramped abuse and move on to their next target. But what happens when the targets start to avoid mmorpgs with this feature?

     

    Instead of that freedom being used as an outlet for negative reasons like frustrations, boredom and griefing. Why are less and less of the more positive ways rarely witnessed as much in open-world/FFA PvP mmorpgs like RPing, settling in-game player conflicts or territorial control anymore?. And no, you having a bad day and killing someone in-game does not count as settling in-game player conflicts.

     

    And it's unfortunately those negative reasons that most players who do not put as much stock into FFA/open-wprld PvP are exposed to. It's like the chat feature in mmorpgs. As it is now, chatting has little to no restrictions as to what you can type. Well almost no restrictions, but for the most part you can type whatever you like. Many do not because certain things could get you banned. A norm has been established within the bounds of the game that a majority of players adhere to and this norm is backed up by a system to keep the more colorful abusers out there in check. There is no norm or system in place to keep PvP in check and until that day this is one freedom that needs to be limited.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • c0existc0exist Member UncommonPosts: 196
    I personally dont prefer it because i tend to play rpg mmo's.  In those games I believe It should be the players against whatever enemy is in the game and not one player against another.  I prefer to team up with people not fight against them.  But that is in a fantasy rpg type game.  If you want pvp go play call of duty.
  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    Arrogant and childish attitudes like yours OP are another reason. 

    I wish you didn't feel this way. There's a constructive conversation going on here. Please read the thread, it's worth it.

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004

    I dont' hate pvp.

    I just don't understand why I need to be forced to pvp when I want to pve.

  • DeitylightDeitylight Member UncommonPosts: 103
    You know me already, I thrive in a pvp games and can't find myself sticking to an mmorpg without it. I would even settle for arena pvp if I have to.

    image
  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,093
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Comaf
    Originally posted by bcbully

    It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  Is it because -

     

    You lose a lot?

    You can't get better?

    It's scary?

    To much adrenalin? 

    It makes you angry?

    PvP'rs are mean?

     

    Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp" 

     

    I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works. 

     

    Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.

     

    Update - Top reasons

    Lack of time

    Mean player/ Nasty attitudes 

    OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself. 

    There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.

     

     

     

     

     

    Please rephrase this with a definition of what you call PvP.   My guess is that your pvp is different from mine.  I played Dark Age of Camelot - I loved LOVED pvp.  But that was truly pvp for a more mature adult (not always!) audience with the sort of logical things that happen when a kingdom exists in an mmorpg (there are walls, siege warfare, and lots LOTS of races and classes under truly separate banners)...You could help your realm in pvp through a variety of methods, and on the adverse, your pvp successes reflected even on those players who were the no names and low levels of the game in terms of coin, and so forth.  There was mad purpose to this pvp and a cool sense of realm pride.

     

    The pvp I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) you enjoy is where Bob the family man is leveling is toon in some corn field (after a long day of work, and several hours with the kids...chores;..helping with homework, and so forth) and you have show up with your uber toon - after grinding all day long...happy to finally relax and just grief "noobs" and then proceed to call them care bears when they leave...This is pvp that only self gratifies, and allows for folks to "e-sport" rage on players who really can't compete due to real life challenges.

     

    Now - that was a fairly rude generalization I gave of what I assume is the pvp you are speaking of.  I don't intend to be rude, friend, but if the latter paragraph is what you call pvp then yeah - it's crap.

    To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.

    AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).    

     

    As someone who loathes FFA or non-consensual PvP I would be tempted to play a game such as AoW, if it truly does what Bc says it does.  The issue then becomes the community because until a paradigm shift happens in the MMO genre where the average mentality of the PvP'er goes from Douchey to pleasant it will still be a hard sale for me.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,161

    Personally, I am just not a competitive person. I would rather play in a cooperative, more helpful way with other players, rather than against them.

    I get no thrills from "play killing" pixels on my screen, be it an NPC or another player. I can enjoy combat. Winning a tough fight is fun, don't get me wrong, but it is not the reason I log into an MMO.

    The very few times I have PvP'd with friends, it was about trying to make the other guy laugh with our antics, not win. The whole "PvP scene" has a bad reputation of attracting the type of "overly competitive" players I try to avoid. This is not to say every PvPer is this way, but there are enough involved I have no desire to be anywhere near it.

    Just different strokes, I guess.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    The freedom allotted in FFA PvP or Open-world PvP is too great of a responsibility for some players to bear. Abusers most often take it for granted in meaning they get to use it however they choose. And that's fine, but doing so negatively, does come with a heavy cost. And it's exactly this cost that they never think about. Especially when it comes to mindset of their more PvE oriented neighbors and their views of seeing FFA/open-world PvP as a overall positive feature. They simply chalk it up as carebear whining when they complain about ramped abuse and move on to their next target. But what happens when the targets start to avoid mmorpgs with this feature?

     

    Instead of that freedom being used as an outlet for negative reasons like frustrations, boredom and griefing. Why are less and less of the more positive ways rarely witnessed as much in open-world/FFA PvP mmorpgs like RPing, settling in-game player conflicts or territorial control anymore?. And no, you having a bad day and killing someone in-game does not count as settling in-game player conflicts.

     

    And it's unfortunately those negative reasons that most players who do not put as much stock into FFA/open-wprld PvP are exposed to. It's like the chat feature in mmorpgs. As it is now, chatting has little to no restrictions as to what you can type. Well almost no restrictions, but for the most part you can type whatever you like. Many do not because certain things could get you banned. A norm has been established within the bounds of the game that a majority of players adhere to and this norm is backed up by a system to keep the more colorful abusers out there in check. There is no norm or system in place to keep PvP in check and until that day this is one freedom that needs to be limited.

    Nice post man.

  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Member UncommonPosts: 158
    I don't hate pvp but it will always play second fiddle to pve during my time in game.  For me it's more of a mini-game, something I do as a distraction from progression and leveling.  This however doesn't mean that it should lack depth or replayability. 
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,161


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.
    Of course they do.

    What can a player vs a dick PvP player? Log off? Not play?

    What can a player do vs a (or many) dick PvE players? Leave group? Find another node to farm?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by evilastro

    To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.

    AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).    

     

    As someone who loathes FFA or non-consensual PvP I would be tempted to play a game such as AoW, if it truly does what Bc says it does.  The issue then becomes the community because until a paradigm shift happens in the MMO genre where the average mentality of the PvP'er goes from Douchey to pleasant it will still be a hard sale for me.

     

    Its worth a try, the only reason I dont play AoW is because I dont like how character progression is handled. The systems behind the game were very well thought out.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    Why people hate PvP. Top 3 reasons I feel in order

    1.) Griefing

    2.) Ganking > Fair Fights

    3.) Imbalance

     

    Griefing I'd say hands down sticks up the highest issue people have with PvP. Ignoring the other issues, griefing is meaning just the aspect of killing for the sake of ruining the time of others, often repeatedly doing so. Its by far one of the biggest factors in dragging down games, particularly with FFA PvP in place as your essencially screwed if some lifeless dude decides to do this to you and you don't stand a chance.

     

    Ganking is by far the biggest part of PvP and elts be honest, it really isn't very skill based. A person will play a class/use a skill set that promotes ganking and killing a player, using a heavy advantage to kill them. This often times leads the one party with a huge advantage over the other then skill rarely can account for. This only is strengthened as a lot of times this is done by HIGHER LEVEL players against LOWER LEVELS (aka griefing). To me its quite pathetic. As fun as it is  to kill those players (seriously, its fun, I can just imagine how shitty they feel losing to something they have no excuse for failing on) its something I personally find quite pathetic, particularly if it is done in a griefing ' I'm a skill-less noob let my levels/money carry me and pretend I'm good' deal a lot seem to go for.

     

    Imbalance would probably be the weakest of the two though bigger for more 'pvp' focused players. PvP is NEVER balanced. A game that is pure PvP (aka League of Legends) can't maintain balance, and MMos are only going to have that much more trouble itself. The aspect of balanced 1v1 is a near impossible dream without making everything the same, and in many cases certain classes will have perks that just make them stand out more then another. I loved my Chanter in Aion, but it was painful having to deal with PvP when my class was just so god aweful weak, particularly early on, only gaining some steam further down the road.

     

     

    Try and pin it on them 'not being good' or any other silly thing, but in the end most things that players dislike about PvP isn't based on skill, its the more 'scum baggy' things like griefing or ganking which skill can't do much for. Sure, I can stand it (at least the random ganking and I am accepting to an extent class imbalance will exist) and I do play on a PvP server in most games (Rift I stuck with the PvP server despite everyone trying to push for PvE) but its behavior that just isn't really 'skill' based yet those "Hardcore Pvpers"  seem to want to push it out as doing so. If you are so hardcore on it, you should be content to go at it in a fair fight, you can't go about demeaning those who don't like it cause they aren't 'good enough' when what you are doing is far from showing being remotely talented at anything.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,423
    If I wanted to watch people run around willy nilly killing each other, I'd watch the news.  I play games to relax and have a good time with friends, not kill them.
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,440

    I do not hate PVP. I hate non-consentual PVP.  This was hammered into me from playing Aion and seeing what it does to people etc.  I get no jollies from griefing other people.  I am not a predator who stalks the easy prey in games.  When I pvp, I want to do it against the prepared in a fair battle.  When I pve, I do not want to be interrupted by someone trying to gank me.  I prefer to keep my worlds separate.

     

     

  • pfcgriffpfcgriff Member Posts: 26

    My problem with PVP in MMORPG's is the general asshattery of the PVP types. Gankers and Griefers that meet a mildly challenging force and bail. No tactics other than superior numbers. Its why I left the PVP servers of EQ2.Go out with a group and spend the night zoning chasing a group that would have better numbers but admittedly wanted to grief. 

     

    The ones who do fight when they inevitably lose, wail and cry on the forums until the offending class in nerfed that cycle continues to infinity. 

     

    MMORPG PVP players should blame themselves and the griefer in their group that no-one wants to play with them.Its like going to the park and there are a group playing basketball that only want to play 5 on one and when they lose they they stab the basketball, then demand the park make everyone else play with no shoes. 

     

    I get my PVP fix in Planetside 2 its brutal does quite well in the nerf cycle BS. 

    image
  • TalinTalin Member Posts: 824

    DAOC RVR PVP system (the default, not the mordred rules) = Good.

     

    Most other PVP systems = Bad.

     

    Any questions?

  • BrialynBrialyn Member Posts: 184

    As a player I loathe PvP but I've never said I don't want it in mmo's.  I won't buy an mmo built solely around pvp or one that forces pvp.  This is my opinion.  Do I die a lot in pvp? Yes. I like to play healer.  I tend to run around battlegrounds healing which is all fine and dandy until the other side figures out you're healing. Then they descend on you like lions on an injured gazelle.  Do I understand this makes tactical sense? Yes.  However, the behavior of some people in pvp when their ego is all inflated can kill any fun you may have been having.  My team will begin to get sarcastic when I cannot get three feet out of a graveyard without being slaughtered by 3 or more other players because now they know I'm the healer.  They make stupid comments like: where are the heals? can't you do your job? hurry up and heal!  Then if my team aren't being jerks the other side are busy doing their smack talk.  Why do I want to do this again? Oh yeah to have fun.  That, what I just described is not fun.  

    Now PvP with a group of friends is more palatable, however the behavior of some on the opposing team still cause the fun factor to dip a little.  

    I play games to have fun and escape my reality, which just happens to be a bunch of adults going at each other and being immature.  The LAST thing I want is to come home to a video game and deal with the same thing.  I'll stick with co-op and PvE. It's just more fun to me.  I'm okay with some people enjoying PvP and others who don't.  If a company thinks that there are enough gamers out there that want a pure pvp game they'll make it and PvP fans can have all the fun they want.  It is not a product I would consider for myself.  If developers want to put some pvp in a game and not FORCE it on me, I'll consider their product. I don't believe that every game should be made for me.  

     


    image
    Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
    Looking Forward to: Wildstar
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    Smile

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    No that's not my logic. I'm pointing out that "bad people" exist on both sides of this fence, so it's getting hard for me to accept that the main reason some pve'rs don't pvp is because of mean nasty people.

     

    What I'm describing is found in mmorpgs from WoW to Gw2. 

     

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

     

     

  • WolfenprideWolfenpride Member Posts: 3,988

    I don't hate it, honestly I use to love in DAoC, PS, CoH, Aion, and a few other niche games, but the average pvp community today I find just aren't a fun bunch to play with.

    I've managed to enjoy PS2 and AoW to some extent recently, but for the most part i'm not to fond of recent development trends and general player mentality.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    No that's not my logic. I'm pointing out that "bad people" exist on both sides of this fence, so it's getting hard for me to accept that the main reason some pve'rs don't pvp is because of mean nasty people.

     

    What I'm describing is found in mmorpgs from WoW to Gw2. 

     

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

     

     

    Because PvE players are usually a friendly flock of people. There are rare cases which this is untrue, but in PvP it's not rare at all and the bad apples are quite rampant. So using PvE players to justify the behavior of PvP players really makes no sense.

     

    Also if you found that in GW2 that is extremely rare as GW2's PvE and even PvP community are some of the most friendly group of players I've encountered.

    Smile

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Actually some people do hate PvP. The way you phrased the question isn't going to get you an answer why though. At least not one you can understand.

    How should it be phrased? I'll change the title.

    It's not the title it's the post. You're implying either they suck at it, they can't handle it, or that simply not liking it isn't a valid reason. You've set up an adversarial conditions and dismissed any reason that you're unwilling to accept as invalid.

    The way I read it, there was an assumption that anyone who doesn't like PvP has something wrong with them or they're a lesser gamer.  It comes across as fundamentally accusatory.  "You don't like PvP?  What's wrong with you?"

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  • BeilisBeilis Member UncommonPosts: 5
    I like forced pvp.First game that had that was in RF online wich i enjoyed alot and had to make friends to help me raid them out so i can farm in peace or pay for some time to just guard portals etc.Its good to have it and not just plain pve field with bots.
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