Originally posted by Gravarg I've been a player since Beta, and I was thinking about leaving just because of the f2p. I guess I'll have to go back to WoW, it's the only P2P left anymore lol.
i m taking the opposite way. leaving wow for rift after 8 years. no more fun for me in wow even if its p2p.
When both have subs you prefer WoW but if one is free youll go for the free option. So you are implying you'd rather play WoW than Rift even if you arent finding it fun anymore.
Rift and WoW are in the same boat as far as most things go. WoW has better lore, but they've had decades to build that lore. I do like the steampunky Defiant though. The only real reason I'm going to WoW is I really don't like F2P that much. They're fun for a month, maybe two, but the community in F2P games just isn't something I'm willing to put up with. I got 2 kids of my own, I don't need thousands more around me hehe.
I have played rift from day one till just now and loved it.I have a max level of all the classes The best pvp/pve gear on all my toons.
I have unsubed and quit Rift as of typing this up. Very sad day when one of the best dev teams sell gear like this.
As a guy that has played this game more then 8 hours a day from day 1 live till now this should say a lot I hope.The only voice I have is to speak with my $$.
Let me see if I have this straight. You have played Rift since day 1, have 4 max level characters with all the best gear, and have played 8 hours per day for a full 2 years and 3 months. Really?
Because according to your post history this is your very first ever post on Rift, but in 2012 you were buying a 90 day sub to WoW, spent 30 days researching EVE and were planning on dedicating to EVE and multiboxing 5 to 10 accounts while you spent the next year learning mining, learning everything, and getting into a good corp. All while playing Rift 8 hours per day, eh? Impressive.
To everyone thinking about downloading Rift and leaning toward not doing so because of this thread, please be aware that threads like this are full of people who think their life is a little brighter by disparaging games that they may or may not have ever actually played. While folks like Synthetick and Adokas actually have a problem with the Rift cash shop and have well-thought-out reasons for feeling this way, if you have no particular predisposition against cash shops in general I'd strongly suggest downloading it and playing it for yourself. It's a good game and historically the dev team has been very well-liked by the community.
I played rift for enough to raid in the 1st 3 major raids, it was a very fun game but if they go this route of F2P aka P2W then people shouldnt DL this or try it. If you have any question of what might happen just go to the NeverWinter forums for 10mins and see how F2P business model works out. I was a victim of F2P and will never play a MMO that uses that business model because it speaks to what the business intent is which is to make as much money as they can regardless of quality.
IMO when it comes to making MMOs you should ALWAYS put quality of the game ahead of anything else, everything else should be 2nd.
Mhh not sure what to think of this... Trion was in my eyes one of the last good studios. Since release of Deviance I started to see the company from a different angle. Now this...Its heading the wrong direction.
Why are you people complaining. Do you really think you should be able to freeload all the way to end game content and including end game content?
That's a ridiculous hope and dream. You realize (as you often say) that paying gamers is here to pay your way and now you complain when such a mechanic exists.
The (insert word) is thick with this place.
EDIT: My GF just explained it to me. They expect the same game experience being free while I'm paying. If that's true then you can stuff it.
If you're already currently paying for the game, then you wouldn't of needed your GF to explain this to you. You would understand what's going on.
The problem is, most of the people that have came here and actually explained why they irritated are paying subscribers. The game isn't free yet, and there's a handful of people on this thread with lifetime subscriptions. Like I said in an earlier reply, there were 3 lifestime subscriptions alone in my household.
I believe that reserves me the right to at least state an opinion on a product I paid box price + lifetime subscription x3.
And since you had to have your GF explain this to you, I doubt you play currently, so what ground do you have to question legitimate opinions of paying customers?
he doesn't , hes just a troll. He obviously didn't read any of the posts in this thread and skimmed them for a post count increase like half of what this sites posters do daily. If he did read anything at all other than skim he would see that what he said makes absolutely no sense at all to the topic at hand. Hes complaining about freeloaders getting what "he" pays for. This thread is about pay to win and the fact they are literally selling everything but the kitchen sink in the cash shop and trying to rationalize why they are doing it.
If he played Rift at any time during Storm Legion he would know
A selling expert gear is going to hurt expert queues because everyone will just head straight to raiding and this will become the new normal because all you get is 1 daily a day for marks since they took them away from boss drops in experts.
B this is opening the door for the next addon to the cash shop being high tiered pvp gear which will turn into the norm if you want to be able to pvp without getting destroyed at level 60.
C When you sell gear in game you destroy the economy for all crafters who make armor and bags dyes etc.
What I'm talking about is they are preparing the client/cash shop for the F2P. As soon as the cash shop is "good to go" and has all the monetary entitlements they want in there it'll probably go F2P then.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
I have played rift from day one till just now and loved it.I have a max level of all the classes The best pvp/pve gear on all my toons.
I have unsubed and quit Rift as of typing this up. Very sad day when one of the best dev teams sell gear like this.
As a guy that has played this game more then 8 hours a day from day 1 live till now this should say a lot I hope.The only voice I have is to speak with my $$.
Let me see if I have this straight. You have played Rift since day 1, have 4 max level characters with all the best gear, and have played 8 hours per day for a full 2 years and 3 months. Really?
Because according to your post history this is your very first ever post on Rift, but in 2012 you were buying a 90 day sub to WoW, spent 30 days researching EVE and were planning on dedicating to EVE and multiboxing 5 to 10 accounts while you spent the next year learning mining, learning everything, and getting into a good corp. All while playing Rift 8 hours per day, eh? Impressive.
To everyone thinking about downloading Rift and leaning toward not doing so because of this thread, please be aware that threads like this are full of people who think their life is a little brighter by disparaging games that they may or may not have ever actually played. While folks like Synthetick and Adokas actually have a problem with the Rift cash shop and have well-thought-out reasons for feeling this way, if you have no particular predisposition against cash shops in general I'd strongly suggest downloading it and playing it for yourself. It's a good game and historically the dev team has been very well-liked by the community.
I played rift for enough to raid in the 1st 3 major raids, it was a very fun game but if they go this route of F2P aka P2W then people shouldnt DL this or try it. If you have any question of what might happen just go to the NeverWinter forums for 10mins and see how F2P business model works out. I was a victim of F2P and will never play a MMO that uses that business model because it speaks to what the business intent is which is to make as much money as they can regardless of quality.
IMO when it comes to making MMOs you should ALWAYS put quality of the game ahead of anything else, everything else should be 2nd.
Well in their defense gamers are less and less subbing for whatever is happening in their lives. There is no one but themselves to blame they can't afford this or that. So game companies instead of having cash "up front" in a sub they are likely moving to cash shops so you can pay for what you want. Likely this gets rid of their "talking to the man" about subs and can instead just talk about the bottom dollar.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
To me, it seems like this whole concept of cash shops is evolving. Slowly changing what is okay to sell in the shop, and people are fine with it, it seems.
You say that as if cash shops have been the norm and widely accepted in western mmo's since creation. Five to eight years ago the majority of people who post on these forums (and others) would of been up in arms over just the thought of playing a mmo with a cash shop. Which they were. Especially on top of a pay-to-play models. No where near as many discussions and outrage as there was years ago when these things first started popping up in p2p's. Very few would post in favor of them and there were countless threads daily on any given gamin forum talking about them.
Agreed. I'm willing to bet most players in this thread were against cash shops, but since it's their beloved Rift, it's acceptable now. People were against Lotro, EQ2, and GW2's cash shops, but it's Rift, so it's alright.
More to the point though, there is nothing evolving about cash shops. It's just a concept to get more money. Simple as that. And Rift isn't evolving into anything different. It's selling gear for convenience, and that's the main issue.
The line between convenience & p2w is being blurred here and the Rift loyalists cannot see it clearly.
@Observer,I for one have never had a problem with cash shop's,unless they really truly offer a distinct advantage over non payer's.I've always felt that leveling faster/increased drop rate/healing pots/talent point's and so on are not ptw because you can get those things just by playing the game.
The fact Trion is selling gear is fine with me,because it can be acquired in game also.There's also better gear to be had.
How can this be confused with what would be ptw?
To me a ptw would be pay x amount and get a lvl 40 character with top gear for that lvl and 20 plat,just for using the cc.Now that is what ptw look's like to me.Certainly not boost's/talent's/drop's and such.
Opinion's vary and that's fine,but at the end of the day,does it affect your gameplay in any way?Or is it just something you're stuck on and can't get past?
Pay 2 Win = Paying real life money for winning. Winning what exactly? Winning an advantage over others. Whether it's due to convenience or stats. That still defines paying to win by having an advantage.
The opposite of Pay 2 Win is experiencing the content on the same playing field as others. The other factor is time, which cannot be controlled, but real money transactions can, depending on the company.
You and others are trying to justify that "inconsequential" stats is not pay to win, but that's just an opinion, and not a fact. The fact is, it's paying to have an advantage, no matter how miniscule the convenience is.
It has nothing to do with being stuck on anything. I'm just here to clarify the definitions of pay to win.
@Observer,I for one have never had a problem with cash shop's,unless they really truly offer a distinct advantage over non payer's.I've always felt that leveling faster/increased drop rate/healing pots/talent point's and so on are not ptw because you can get those things just by playing the game.
The fact Trion is selling gear is fine with me,because it can be acquired in game also.There's also better gear to be had.
How can this be confused with what would be ptw?
To me a ptw would be pay x amount and get a lvl 40 character with top gear for that lvl and 20 plat,just for using the cc.Now that is what ptw look's like to me.Certainly not boost's/talent's/drop's and such.
Opinion's vary and that's fine,but at the end of the day,does it affect your gameplay in any way?Or is it just something you're stuck on and can't get past?
Pay 2 Win = Paying real life money for winning. Winning what exactly? Winning an advantage over others. Whether it's due to convenience or stats. That still defines paying to win by having an advantage.
The opposite of Pay 2 Win is experiencing the content on the same playing field as others. The other factor is time, which cannot be controlled, but real money transactions can, depending on the company.
You and others are trying to justify that "inconsequential" stats is not pay to win, but that's just an opinion, and not a fact. The fact is, it's paying to have an advantage, no matter how miniscule the convenience is.
It has nothing to do with being stuck on anything. I'm just here to clarify the definitions of pay to win.
There's no point. The vast majority of people on these forums seem to think that 'any game with a cash shop = pay 2 win'. It's absolutely idiotic. Most don't even seem to realize that the very criteria they are using to label something 'pay 2 win' can literally be applied to every MMO ever made.
The whole term has become meaningless to the point where it is just an excuse people use to slander 'input game X that i don't like'.
I remember something simliar in AoC when it went FTP putting tier 1-5 pvp gear on the item shop. Vets complained because they could buy PVP gear and play against people who had been there longer. At that point I was pretty upset about the situation.
But then I realized I was wearing T6-7 PVP gear with stats way above the gear that could be bought on the cash shop. All the guys complaining were rocking higher up to max ranked gear. These people who just started buying the gear were just wanting something anything that could help them against guys like us. In the end i realized they weren't looking for an easy way out. They would still have to grind out the time and resources to get better gear. These players were just looking for a convenient way to have a bit more level playing field when they started out PVPing. I can't blame anyone for that really.
Trion had always been pretty good listening to the community and the cash shop i believe is still on test servers. Why not let the collective voices be heard if its so bad? For me Im just gonna wait until it launches because if its things i can get in game and theres still better Im not too worried.
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
I don't know if anyone else see what is coming up but. Don't defend the cash shop please.
Everything that will be on that cash shop wont be as easy as it is now to get. Because it will make no sense at all to put it in a cash shop.
Every F2P game out there starts with items dropping easy and in good quantities then they slowly change the rate of the drops to almost nil. Because they need you to spend in the shop to keep the game going.
They are a business and need to keep the servers running and it cost money to do that. So don't get any hopes up.
If they sell bags 4k plat. Do you really think they will have them easy to get in game???? And those player's buying items with real cash form the shop for how many plats in-game?? Think you will make plats as fast when it goes F2P ?????.
edit : I was starting to like that on top of that . Well i will try the free version to see if i am wrong but i wont get my hopes up right away
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
Well, it is unfortunate they are selling any stat gear (even if it isn't raid gear!) in the cash shop. Was really looking forward to going back to try out Rift as F2P.
I don't mind cosmetic items, exp boosters, mounts, and other vanity items in a cash shop.
Ah well, I will remember my time in Rift fondly (I quit prior to Storm Legion), but I shall not be returning while weapons and armor are available in the cash shop.
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
It's just business to sell things that appeal to people . If people are willing to pay for it then that's good they are supporting your FREE game .
You get to game for FREE and they get to waste money on stuff you know you can obtain by playing .
Everyone wins and everyone is happy .
is that what you're seeing here ? everyone being happy ?
in a very old play, where the word "robot" is first mentioned one of the main characters (human) notices the robots are equipped with the ability to feel pain - so they don't damage themselves and try to keep themselves functional - but no other emotions. She thinks that if they'd have full emotions they'd understand how much humans love and appreciate them and we'd all live together as one big happy family.
can you guess the result ?
1) we're better than you. We're faster, stronger, smarter.
2) we are your slaves. despite our superiority.
3) we are designed to be like you.
Therefore, from 1, 2 and 3 results that in order to be more like you we must eliminate your kind and secure ourselves as the sole masters of the world. Just like you'd do if you were in our position.
I liked this. Great post :> That's exactly how things become eventually in F2P games. The high payers who sustain the game want more and more and more for their money. Else, what is the point of paying, yes?
I don't blame Trion at all. I salute them. Cash shop is freaking awesome. Can't wait to see how they will milk money from stupid, retarded, imbecile players without single nanogram of brain. F2P is future. Future is dumb. Why I need to waste my empty brain cells on hard bosses (which wrotten tactic is not longer than 200 letters) to get gear, when I can buy it ("Look, nab, I got better gear than you, gtfo scrub")!
Ok, now, it's not at all big deal, that cash shop, but will become problem when you group with cashshoppers with imba gear, but no brain. As someone already said, they will nerf shit out of raids/mechanic to catter for casuals (read: dumb shoppers).
I'm still shocked that they have any max level gear in there period. That is totally unacceptable in my book. I was a huge Trion supporter before and this just kills off this company for me. I'll take my time else where, thankfully FFXIV is coming up real soon.
Originally posted by Grunty Equivalent bags are readily available from other players in the auction house. This isn't an asian game where the only way to get more bag space is to pay cash for it.
Does it matter.... you can buy the currency for the shop from other players too. Doesn't change the fact that they are doing it.
I am so tired of Free 2 Play games and cash shops, that I am writing off the 11 months left on my year sub, because they will not refund it.
For the love of god man, you can get your money back if it's only been one month, credit card chargeback, paypal dispute, whatever payment you used short of money order has a way to get your money back after only a month. Don't waste your money by doing nothing.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
I don't blame Trion at all. I salute them. Cash shop is freaking awesome. Can't wait to see how they will milk money from stupid, retarded, imbecile players without single nanogram of brain. F2P is future. Future is dumb. Why I need to waste my empty brain cells on hard bosses (which wrotten tactic is not longer than 200 letters) to get gear, when I can buy it ("Look, nab, I got better gear than you, gtfo scrub")!
Ok, now, it's not at all big deal, that cash shop, but will become problem when you group with cashshoppers with imba gear, but no brain. As someone already said, they will nerf shit out of raids/mechanic to catter for casuals (read: dumb shoppers).
GG.
wow is p2p but can you imagine if the hc dungeons were like tbc ones? can you imagine yourself doing shattered halls hc with lfg? i dont even mention raiding. just imagine tbc hc's.
so cash shops are not the cause. companies made the community like this and you know something? most ppl like it. they want casualness. most of them don't want to spent hours after hours to complete a single hc dungeon. either some1 likes it or not, this is the truth anymore.
Originally posted by Grunty Equivalent bags are readily available from other players in the auction house. This isn't an asian game where the only way to get more bag space is to pay cash for it.
Does it matter.... you can buy the currency for the shop from other players too. Doesn't change the fact that they are doing it.
I am so tired of Free 2 Play games and cash shops, that I am writing off the 11 months left on my year sub, because they will not refund it.
For the love of god man, you can get your money back if it's only been one month, credit card chargeback, paypal dispute, whatever payment you used short of money order has a way to get your money back after only a month. Don't waste your money by doing nothing.
Actually my bank has stated I need to go to Trion for a refund as I use a Visa Debit card (I do not keep normal credit cards, cancelled them all a while back)... this is the first time I have ever tried to charge anything back. I will just take it as a lesson learned to NEVER buy a year sub again. *shrug*
Now that I have had some time to relax and ponder the shop. I really don't care anymore. If you like the shop and the move to free to play great, I am glad you have your game. I for one do not like cash shops, and have tried to look passed it an cannot, so I will move on and wish you all the best of luck.
Originally posted by Arrogant_Wormy Now that I have had some time to relax and ponder the shop. I really don't care anymore. If you like the shop and the move to free to play great, I am glad you have your game. I for one do not like cash shops, and have tried to look passed it an cannot, so I will move on and wish you all the best of luck.
We're in the same boat.
I think what most who are defending the game are failing to miss is that while yes, everything in the cash shop is available via means of plat, the amount of plat the items are going to cost is going to start off ridiculously high and only go higher as the initial surge of F2P try it out, then move on.
Mechanics on gateway encounters will be nerfed to accommodate the influx of players who bought their pre-raid gear, then further tiers of content will suffer the same fate.
Ah, well, more power to the ones who will continue to play and support the game, I suppose.
Sadly, cash shop is where it's at. Companies make a killing from impulse shoppers. I'm pretty shocked players can buy end-game raid gear though. Even EA/SWTOR hasn't stooped that low yet lol. Might bite them in the ass in the long run since players won't really have carrot to chase after. Will be a nice little cash grab at first. Business is business.
dont forget the Rep element as well. there are a lot of items that one could buy, but then never equip because they still do not have the relevant rep with a particular fationl.
while the CS does sound pretty bad, things like the above still give me some hope.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Comments
Rift and WoW are in the same boat as far as most things go. WoW has better lore, but they've had decades to build that lore. I do like the steampunky Defiant though. The only real reason I'm going to WoW is I really don't like F2P that much. They're fun for a month, maybe two, but the community in F2P games just isn't something I'm willing to put up with. I got 2 kids of my own, I don't need thousands more around me hehe.
I played rift for enough to raid in the 1st 3 major raids, it was a very fun game but if they go this route of F2P aka P2W then people shouldnt DL this or try it. If you have any question of what might happen just go to the NeverWinter forums for 10mins and see how F2P business model works out. I was a victim of F2P and will never play a MMO that uses that business model because it speaks to what the business intent is which is to make as much money as they can regardless of quality.
IMO when it comes to making MMOs you should ALWAYS put quality of the game ahead of anything else, everything else should be 2nd.
Mhh not sure what to think of this... Trion was in my eyes one of the last good studios. Since release of Deviance I started to see the company from a different angle. Now this...Its heading the wrong direction.
What I'm talking about is they are preparing the client/cash shop for the F2P. As soon as the cash shop is "good to go" and has all the monetary entitlements they want in there it'll probably go F2P then.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
Well in their defense gamers are less and less subbing for whatever is happening in their lives. There is no one but themselves to blame they can't afford this or that. So game companies instead of having cash "up front" in a sub they are likely moving to cash shops so you can pay for what you want. Likely this gets rid of their "talking to the man" about subs and can instead just talk about the bottom dollar.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
Pay 2 Win = Paying real life money for winning. Winning what exactly? Winning an advantage over others. Whether it's due to convenience or stats. That still defines paying to win by having an advantage.
The opposite of Pay 2 Win is experiencing the content on the same playing field as others. The other factor is time, which cannot be controlled, but real money transactions can, depending on the company.
You and others are trying to justify that "inconsequential" stats is not pay to win, but that's just an opinion, and not a fact. The fact is, it's paying to have an advantage, no matter how miniscule the convenience is.
It has nothing to do with being stuck on anything. I'm just here to clarify the definitions of pay to win.
There's no point. The vast majority of people on these forums seem to think that 'any game with a cash shop = pay 2 win'. It's absolutely idiotic. Most don't even seem to realize that the very criteria they are using to label something 'pay 2 win' can literally be applied to every MMO ever made.
The whole term has become meaningless to the point where it is just an excuse people use to slander 'input game X that i don't like'.
I remember something simliar in AoC when it went FTP putting tier 1-5 pvp gear on the item shop. Vets complained because they could buy PVP gear and play against people who had been there longer. At that point I was pretty upset about the situation.
But then I realized I was wearing T6-7 PVP gear with stats way above the gear that could be bought on the cash shop. All the guys complaining were rocking higher up to max ranked gear. These people who just started buying the gear were just wanting something anything that could help them against guys like us. In the end i realized they weren't looking for an easy way out. They would still have to grind out the time and resources to get better gear. These players were just looking for a convenient way to have a bit more level playing field when they started out PVPing. I can't blame anyone for that really.
Trion had always been pretty good listening to the community and the cash shop i believe is still on test servers. Why not let the collective voices be heard if its so bad? For me Im just gonna wait until it launches because if its things i can get in game and theres still better Im not too worried.
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
1 - 50 should've been FTP , keep SL 50-60 P2P
I don't know if anyone else see what is coming up but. Don't defend the cash shop please.
Everything that will be on that cash shop wont be as easy as it is now to get. Because it will make no sense at all to put it in a cash shop.
Every F2P game out there starts with items dropping easy and in good quantities then they slowly change the rate of the drops to almost nil. Because they need you to spend in the shop to keep the game going.
They are a business and need to keep the servers running and it cost money to do that. So don't get any hopes up.
If they sell bags 4k plat. Do you really think they will have them easy to get in game???? And those player's buying items with real cash form the shop for how many plats in-game?? Think you will make plats as fast when it goes F2P ?????.
edit : I was starting to like that on top of that . Well i will try the free version to see if i am wrong but i wont get my hopes up right away
1. Um.. first off your talking bad about a system that isn't even out yet! Trion has clearly stated that things will change before going live.
2. Raid gear is not in the cash shop, and the best pvp gear isn't either so if you buy the dungeon gear i can still kick your ass in pvp!
3. 99% of the items in the store are also able to purchase in plat! meaning that id don't have to spend money!
4.Gear crates have crappy gear compared to raid gear
5. Trion is and still is one of the best companies
6. Dont judge the F2P system until it is released!
7.Patrons get tons of perks, and they also announced a weekly donation of chests and keys
8. Rift team and Archage Teams are two different TEAMS!
9. Rex will let people get credits for free and get plat!
10. 2 new raids are coming in 2.4 (IM EXCITED!!)
Well, it is unfortunate they are selling any stat gear (even if it isn't raid gear!) in the cash shop. Was really looking forward to going back to try out Rift as F2P.
I don't mind cosmetic items, exp boosters, mounts, and other vanity items in a cash shop.
Ah well, I will remember my time in Rift fondly (I quit prior to Storm Legion), but I shall not be returning while weapons and armor are available in the cash shop.
+1
I liked this. Great post :> That's exactly how things become eventually in F2P games. The high payers who sustain the game want more and more and more for their money. Else, what is the point of paying, yes?
I don't blame Trion at all. I salute them. Cash shop is freaking awesome. Can't wait to see how they will milk money from stupid, retarded, imbecile players without single nanogram of brain. F2P is future. Future is dumb. Why I need to waste my empty brain cells on hard bosses (which wrotten tactic is not longer than 200 letters) to get gear, when I can buy it ("Look, nab, I got better gear than you, gtfo scrub")!
Ok, now, it's not at all big deal, that cash shop, but will become problem when you group with cashshoppers with imba gear, but no brain. As someone already said, they will nerf shit out of raids/mechanic to catter for casuals (read: dumb shoppers).
GG.
For the love of god man, you can get your money back if it's only been one month, credit card chargeback, paypal dispute, whatever payment you used short of money order has a way to get your money back after only a month. Don't waste your money by doing nothing.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
wow is p2p but can you imagine if the hc dungeons were like tbc ones? can you imagine yourself doing shattered halls hc with lfg? i dont even mention raiding. just imagine tbc hc's.
so cash shops are not the cause. companies made the community like this and you know something? most ppl like it. they want casualness. most of them don't want to spent hours after hours to complete a single hc dungeon. either some1 likes it or not, this is the truth anymore.
Actually my bank has stated I need to go to Trion for a refund as I use a Visa Debit card (I do not keep normal credit cards, cancelled them all a while back)... this is the first time I have ever tried to charge anything back. I will just take it as a lesson learned to NEVER buy a year sub again. *shrug*
This bag has been in game for 8 months.........
It's also only 32 slots vs the 28 slot bags which cost about 60 plat to be crafted.
Rift
We're in the same boat.
I think what most who are defending the game are failing to miss is that while yes, everything in the cash shop is available via means of plat, the amount of plat the items are going to cost is going to start off ridiculously high and only go higher as the initial surge of F2P try it out, then move on.
Mechanics on gateway encounters will be nerfed to accommodate the influx of players who bought their pre-raid gear, then further tiers of content will suffer the same fate.
Ah, well, more power to the ones who will continue to play and support the game, I suppose.
dont forget the Rep element as well. there are a lot of items that one could buy, but then never equip because they still do not have the relevant rep with a particular fationl.
while the CS does sound pretty bad, things like the above still give me some hope.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse