Originally posted by Normandy7 I just want to add this as well. Just look at all the non mmos we have today like Halo, Call of Duty, Guild Wars, and basically all online rpgs and shooters, they outsell just about every mmo. Why do you think that is ?
"A couple of our competitors have found out that through very, very expensive lessons--one of our competitors just recently announced they're restarting an MMO project in the US," Zelnick said. "We look at it and say 'How many MMOs have ever been successful in the US?' Two. World of Warcraft and EverQuest. That's kind of a bad slugging percentage."
This is as wrong and false it can get. Lets nail down the facts:
1. WoW is no longer the most successful MMO in the history, League of Legends is.
2. WoW is the most successful MMORPG in the history.
3. Being successful isn't measured by player base, but in the costs; Does the game generate more income than output? Did the sales overcome development costs?
Now then, say again that MMO's aren't successful in US. If anything at all we have more successful MMO's than single player games in the recent years. MMORPG industry however has been drying up lately with only few successful games being at the market right now: WoW, GW2, Aion, Tera and EVE (borderline RPG). Neverwinter might join the ranks of 'successful games' in a time, having been out in the market for only a little time its hard to tell yet.
EDIT: Also for the love of god the term 'MMO' is being used way too loosely on these forums. Although it shouldnt come as a surprise when the site is called MMORPG, everyone instantly ties the other term to it. Do not forget the meaning real meaning behind it.
You nitpicked the argument very well, but completely missed the point - It's more risky to try to market an MMO in US than on the other side of the globe.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
We have certainly had successes, but like the guy said our hit rate is low, I can think of several but that's still a low hit rate. What I was pointing out was that I don't see us putting money into MMO's that don't launch well, when FF did that I thought 'no western MMO company would do that these days'. They have in the past, Anarchy Online showed what you can do. But these days in the west the idea seems to be if you do not do well at launch then cut your loses.
Expectations here are unrealistic too. Every new MMO is expected to be the best ever and the finite player population is excepted to jump ship to the new one. Maybe in Asia they just don't expect every release to be the best thing since EQ launched.
Nicely balanced.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think MMOs have problems "working" in the US because US Consumers are fickle
They will buy just about anything on Marketing and Hype alone. However, if said product doesnt live up to that Hype, as well as the expectations of the buyer, they will quickly turn away from that product and never look at it again.
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Ok I see your point but that is really nitpicking because when you look at the entire genre as a whole only WoW and Everquest really had major success. The rest are pretty much fighting for the remaing scraps from the table Blizzard and Sony left behind which according to the article a bad slugging percentage. Couldn't agree more.
UO, AC, and EQ all did very well in their day. EQ led the pack, but the others weren't unsuccessful. They were all profitable games and they still are which is why they all still exist.
DAoC was a successful game.
People always forget about Runescape, but it has done very well for itself and has been successful.
EvE has been continually successful.
Was LotRO not successful? Was the switch it made to F2P so bad that tons of western MMOs jumped on the F2P bandwagon after just for the hell of it?
A successful product makes a profit and lasts for a long time. It isn't as if only the leader is successful and everyone else failed even though they're making money while people enjoy their product.
The fact is there has been plenty of successful MMOs over the years and the industry can work. The problem is the big budget flops that get the headlines are all people focus on. Those WoW clones that think if they copy WoW and stick a new IP on it (or say "Hey Star Wars anything makes money right? Let's spend a few hundred million making a not original SW MMO then!") they will bring in millions of players. No matter how many times that doesn't work, they keep trying. That is what makes it APPEAR as if MMOs don't work, when original MMOs do work.
I always say that EvE really showed a better way of approaching MMOs. Small budget, base original concept to start with. Then build in more features/content as the playerbase builds so that you are constantly operating at a profit and the game is always expanding. Dropping $300 million on an unoriginal product and expecting to get all that money back in under 12 months is insane and just plain doesn't work.
If you look at the original big 3 (UO, AC, EQ1) the reason all 3 were simultaneously successful when the MMO market was a tiny fraction of what it is today was that they did 2 things. First, they all made their own game and own systems instead of cloning each other and second, they managed their budgets and grew over time.
MMOs can work, do work, and have worked when approached correctly.
"Western" games have such a high level of entitlement as well as demands for "how a game should be" that it is nearly impossible to satisfy anyone...
Developing games for the "Eastern" gamer is by far easier, the hyper competitive nature of the games, combined with the overall social acceptance of gaming in general as well as the amount of disposable income (or any income for that matter) that eastern gaming player will throw at a game is a recipe for success...
The icing on the cake is that in the east, P2W is not only accepted it is a way of life... It is almost like "bragging rights" because people can clearly see how much you spent on a game, by you equipment, pet, mount, etc...
Even the hardest of hardcore "western gamer" cannot compete with the most casual "eastern gamer" in the eastern market. It is just clearly two different gaming cultures.
"Western" games have such a high level of entitlement as well as demands for "how a game should be" that it is nearly impossible to satisfy anyone...
Developing games for the "Eastern" gamer is by far easier, the hyper competitive nature of the games, combined with the overall social acceptance of gaming in general as well as the amount of disposable income (or any income for that matter) that eastern gaming player will throw at a game is a recipe for success...
The icing on the cake is that in the east, P2W is not only accepted it is a way of life... It is almost like "bragging rights" because people can clearly see how much you spent on a game, by you equipment, pet, mount, etc...
Even the hardest of hardcore "western gamer" cannot compete with the most casual "eastern gamer" in the eastern market. It is just clearly two different gaming cultures.
You were doing well until the unnecessary use of hyperbole.
Seriously, you don't know of any hard core western gamers who wouldn't be competitive with the "most casual" eastern gamer?
That aside, you did raise a valid point, here in the west people might be more likely to exhibit their bragging rights in real life, with their big houses, big cars, big guns, and extravagant lifestyles that might not be quite so available to the average eastern player.
I also agree, the eastern gamer is probably more likely to accept the game for the way it is, and then try to master it regardless while the western gamer frequently will walk away when he or she realizes what the game is lacking in terms of their preferences.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Western" games have such a high level of entitlement as well as demands for "how a game should be" that it is nearly impossible to satisfy anyone...
Developing games for the "Eastern" gamer is by far easier, the hyper competitive nature of the games, combined with the overall social acceptance of gaming in general as well as the amount of disposable income (or any income for that matter) that eastern gaming player will throw at a game is a recipe for success...
The icing on the cake is that in the east, P2W is not only accepted it is a way of life... It is almost like "bragging rights" because people can clearly see how much you spent on a game, by you equipment, pet, mount, etc...
Even the hardest of hardcore "western gamer" cannot compete with the most casual "eastern gamer" in the eastern market. It is just clearly two different gaming cultures.
You were doing well until the unnecessary use of hyperbole.
Seriously, you don't know of any hard core western gamers who wouldn't be competitive with the "most casual" eastern gamer?
That aside, you did raise a valid point, here in the west people might be more likely to exhibit their bragging rights in real life, with their big houses, big cars, big guns, and extravagant lifestyles that might not be quite so available to the average eastern player.
I also agree, the eastern gamer is probably more likely to accept the game for the way it is, and then try to master it regardless while the western gamer frequently will walk away when he or she realizes what the game is lacking in terms of their preferences.
When you are right you are right... That was lame of me to finish my post as I did... If I knew how to draw a line through it I would as opposed to just editing it out...
That is one of the stupidest and least researched article ever written. WoW got most its subscribers simply because the ability to play MMOs became far more feasible - technology wise. That game WAS NOT one of the first, it was fourth or fifth in the line of successful MMOs.
The problem with MMOs is not what is so loosely eluded to in that sad excuse for an article, it DID show the less-than maturity of its author and their inability to look beyond the basic mechanics of gaming - which is the real problem.
American's want more! We get bored easily and just running out to do a raid or a dungeon gets OLD. Sure it's fun, the kids jump in and make it even look like the masses are playing ... and then everyone is bored until the new raid comes out.
The great games already knew this and really excelled but then WoW showed what greed could get you. They went after the young kids and the gamers who had no life. Games changed. Money became the priority and with that came nothing but boring repetitive playing - the wait started for the new repetitive thing to be tossed in ... rinse and repeat.
Years later, these games are struggling because people are bored with it all and want more. They will jump in for the bigger and better addon but then they are gone, eventually not even bothering to return because the new shiny game over there looks better with it's repetitive game play. The old games kept people for their entire run (some are still running and players are still paying) because there is not only a new update/release but there is more to do when you get bored with the repetitive.
Eventually even the kids grow up and generations change. MMOs need to evolve with them.
I live in asia. And I do agree that there are so much more successful mmorpg in asia. Successful as in making money.
First of all, the asia market is bigger. And second the asia players are much easier to please. Beside bots and hacks, it is very rare to hear asia players complain about game design. As oppose to western mmorpg forum, people complain about everything.
I played through aion on both asian and us server. Amazing thing I find is there are almost no one compalining about the grind. As oppose to every player complain about grinding on the us forum. Maybe because all asian players are bots though.
I think it has a lot to do with what the kids are playing. Most kids in the US play on a PS3 or XBOX360 which is dominated by FPS and Sports, correct me if I'm wrong but there are probably less than 5 MMO's across both systems. It's not because they aren't interested as much as it is they don't know or care that they exist.
"Western" games have such a high level of entitlement as well as demands for "how a game should be" that it is nearly impossible to satisfy anyone...
Developing games for the "Eastern" gamer is by far easier, the hyper competitive nature of the games, combined with the overall social acceptance of gaming in general as well as the amount of disposable income (or any income for that matter) that eastern gaming player will throw at a game is a recipe for success...
The icing on the cake is that in the east, P2W is not only accepted it is a way of life... It is almost like "bragging rights" because people can clearly see how much you spent on a game, by you equipment, pet, mount, etc...
Even the hardest of hardcore "western gamer" cannot compete with the most casual "eastern gamer" in the eastern market. It is just clearly two different gaming cultures.
Mainly I am responding to green highlight part. For me if that's only option to have mmorpg's is to take part in that kind of 'bragging rights' P2W game culture and enviroment, then as far as I am concerned mmorpg's on western market can all close even today.
That game culture and game product is not fullfilling my expectations so I am not using this kind of entertaiment (not playing mmos for over 2 years already). Why should I?
This article is beyond stupid, almost every mmo that has launched in the west has done well enough to sustain itself and the company making/publishing it.
Rift, GW, Tera, Aion, FFXI all didn't set the world on fire but they are all successfull enough to sustain the companies that run them. If Rift wasn't a success Trion would of closed long ago, same for Tera and Aion. FFXI made SE a fortune.
You don't have to have millions of players to be a success and make a lot of money, heck even STO is a success.
As long as the companies make priofits it's successful, considering how much these games cost to make and how long you can run an MMO they are pretty much money for nothing after a while. They wouldn't keep making them if they weren't cash cows.
This article is beyond stupid, almost every mmo that has launched in the west has done well enough to sustain itself and the company making/publishing it.
Rift, GW, Tera, Aion, FFXI all didn't set the world on fire but they are all successfull enough to sustain the companies that run them. If Rift wasn't a success Trion would of closed long ago, same for Tera and Aion. FFXI made SE a fortune.
You don't have to have millions of players to be a success and make a lot of money, heck even STO is a success.
As long as the companies make priofits it's successful, considering how much these games cost to make and how long you can run an MMO they are pretty much money for nothing after a while. They wouldn't keep making them if they weren't cash cows.
This article is beyond stupid, almost every mmo that has launched in the west has done well enough to sustain itself and the company making/publishing it.
Rift, GW, Tera, Aion, FFXI all didn't set the world on fire but they are all successfull enough to sustain the companies that run them. If Rift wasn't a success Trion would of closed long ago, same for Tera and Aion. FFXI made SE a fortune.
You don't have to have millions of players to be a success and make a lot of money, heck even STO is a success.
As long as the companies make priofits it's successful, considering how much these games cost to make and how long you can run an MMO they are pretty much money for nothing after a while. They wouldn't keep making them if they weren't cash cows.
Aion, Tera, and FFXI are not Western games.
ya and GW1 I believe did have localized in other country. I bought a Taiwaness version of GW1 and played a bit. GW2 is set to release in korean, china etc.
I think people are missing the point. The asian market is huge. Most western games failed to "infiltrate" the asian market, and that is what set the difference.
If STO is successful, there is probably a few hundred mmorpg more profit than STO in asia. There is just so much more games because they have a better and larger market for it.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
OP should do a bit of looking into defintions, cause last time i checked if it paid for the intial cost of makeing the game and then turned profit then it was a success.
correct me if im wrong on this but not everything has to be mesured by WoW, doyou thinbk small crack in the wall pizza places care if they sell as much as pizza ut or dominos, no. why? because what matters is the bottom line not what other peoples bottom line is.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Sadly people in America expect to be rich without working for it and thats the problem with not just MMO's but basically everything.
You do know that Americans work more hours per week than people in most other industrialized nations, right? It's how we continue to keep the economic engine running while other countries falter.
Now it is true, we do seem to like to play games rather than work in them, but perhaps that makes sense.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by ksternal Sadly people in America expect to be rich without working for it and thats the problem with not just MMO's but basically everything.
You do know that Americans work more hours per week than people in most other industrialized nations, right? It's how we continue to keep the economic engine running while other countries falter. Now it is true, we do seem to like to play games rather than work in them, but perhaps that makes sense.
I think this is an issue facing the "developed" world, not just the US. Past economic success and influence has made many believe we have some sort of right to be at the top. If you look at GDP many countries once described as "third world" are catching us up.
Originally posted by ksternal Sadly people in America expect to be rich without working for it and thats the problem with not just MMO's but basically everything.
You do know that Americans work more hours per week than people in most other industrialized nations, right? It's how we continue to keep the economic engine running while other countries falter. Now it is true, we do seem to like to play games rather than work in them, but perhaps that makes sense.
err actullly this is incorrect, we USED to work more hours on average then other countries this is no longer the case, between bad job econamy and worker right laws we work about even or less then the average for most countrie now.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Let us not ignore Everquest 2. Some of us were fortunate enough to play that before World of Warcraft. It was everything a next-generation MMORPG should have been, and successful enough, I am sure. Final Fantasy XI, I am also sure, was quite successful, and so it should have been. FFXI, EQ2 and WoW were the best games the genre had ever seen and ever will see. Everquest was important and influential, but frankly I would rather play any of the above three at launch than Everquest at launch. These games were considered next-generation for a reason.
Comments
Sigh... and I clicked /facepalm!
more console gamers than pc gamers.
You nitpicked the argument very well, but completely missed the point - It's more risky to try to market an MMO in US than on the other side of the globe.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nicely balanced.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think MMOs have problems "working" in the US because US Consumers are fickle
They will buy just about anything on Marketing and Hype alone. However, if said product doesnt live up to that Hype, as well as the expectations of the buyer, they will quickly turn away from that product and never look at it again.
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
UO, AC, and EQ all did very well in their day. EQ led the pack, but the others weren't unsuccessful. They were all profitable games and they still are which is why they all still exist.
DAoC was a successful game.
People always forget about Runescape, but it has done very well for itself and has been successful.
EvE has been continually successful.
Was LotRO not successful? Was the switch it made to F2P so bad that tons of western MMOs jumped on the F2P bandwagon after just for the hell of it?
A successful product makes a profit and lasts for a long time. It isn't as if only the leader is successful and everyone else failed even though they're making money while people enjoy their product.
The fact is there has been plenty of successful MMOs over the years and the industry can work. The problem is the big budget flops that get the headlines are all people focus on. Those WoW clones that think if they copy WoW and stick a new IP on it (or say "Hey Star Wars anything makes money right? Let's spend a few hundred million making a not original SW MMO then!") they will bring in millions of players. No matter how many times that doesn't work, they keep trying. That is what makes it APPEAR as if MMOs don't work, when original MMOs do work.
I always say that EvE really showed a better way of approaching MMOs. Small budget, base original concept to start with. Then build in more features/content as the playerbase builds so that you are constantly operating at a profit and the game is always expanding. Dropping $300 million on an unoriginal product and expecting to get all that money back in under 12 months is insane and just plain doesn't work.
If you look at the original big 3 (UO, AC, EQ1) the reason all 3 were simultaneously successful when the MMO market was a tiny fraction of what it is today was that they did 2 things. First, they all made their own game and own systems instead of cloning each other and second, they managed their budgets and grew over time.
MMOs can work, do work, and have worked when approached correctly.
Take Two is correct...
I hate to keep having to post this link but here is why:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An
"Western" games have such a high level of entitlement as well as demands for "how a game should be" that it is nearly impossible to satisfy anyone...
Developing games for the "Eastern" gamer is by far easier, the hyper competitive nature of the games, combined with the overall social acceptance of gaming in general as well as the amount of disposable income (or any income for that matter) that eastern gaming player will throw at a game is a recipe for success...
The icing on the cake is that in the east, P2W is not only accepted it is a way of life... It is almost like "bragging rights" because people can clearly see how much you spent on a game, by you equipment, pet, mount, etc...
Even the hardest of hardcore "western gamer" cannot compete with the most casual "eastern gamer" in the eastern market. It is just clearly two different gaming cultures.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
You were doing well until the unnecessary use of hyperbole.
Seriously, you don't know of any hard core western gamers who wouldn't be competitive with the "most casual" eastern gamer?
That aside, you did raise a valid point, here in the west people might be more likely to exhibit their bragging rights in real life, with their big houses, big cars, big guns, and extravagant lifestyles that might not be quite so available to the average eastern player.
I also agree, the eastern gamer is probably more likely to accept the game for the way it is, and then try to master it regardless while the western gamer frequently will walk away when he or she realizes what the game is lacking in terms of their preferences.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When you are right you are right... That was lame of me to finish my post as I did... If I knew how to draw a line through it I would as opposed to just editing it out...
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
That is one of the stupidest and least researched article ever written. WoW got most its subscribers simply because the ability to play MMOs became far more feasible - technology wise. That game WAS NOT one of the first, it was fourth or fifth in the line of successful MMOs.
The problem with MMOs is not what is so loosely eluded to in that sad excuse for an article, it DID show the less-than maturity of its author and their inability to look beyond the basic mechanics of gaming - which is the real problem.
American's want more! We get bored easily and just running out to do a raid or a dungeon gets OLD. Sure it's fun, the kids jump in and make it even look like the masses are playing ... and then everyone is bored until the new raid comes out.
The great games already knew this and really excelled but then WoW showed what greed could get you. They went after the young kids and the gamers who had no life. Games changed. Money became the priority and with that came nothing but boring repetitive playing - the wait started for the new repetitive thing to be tossed in ... rinse and repeat.
Years later, these games are struggling because people are bored with it all and want more. They will jump in for the bigger and better addon but then they are gone, eventually not even bothering to return because the new shiny game over there looks better with it's repetitive game play. The old games kept people for their entire run (some are still running and players are still paying) because there is not only a new update/release but there is more to do when you get bored with the repetitive.
Eventually even the kids grow up and generations change. MMOs need to evolve with them.
I live in asia. And I do agree that there are so much more successful mmorpg in asia. Successful as in making money.
First of all, the asia market is bigger. And second the asia players are much easier to please. Beside bots and hacks, it is very rare to hear asia players complain about game design. As oppose to western mmorpg forum, people complain about everything.
I played through aion on both asian and us server. Amazing thing I find is there are almost no one compalining about the grind. As oppose to every player complain about grinding on the us forum. Maybe because all asian players are bots though.
He is right to a point.
I think it has a lot to do with what the kids are playing. Most kids in the US play on a PS3 or XBOX360 which is dominated by FPS and Sports, correct me if I'm wrong but there are probably less than 5 MMO's across both systems. It's not because they aren't interested as much as it is they don't know or care that they exist.
Mainly I am responding to green highlight part. For me if that's only option to have mmorpg's is to take part in that kind of 'bragging rights' P2W game culture and enviroment, then as far as I am concerned mmorpg's on western market can all close even today.
That game culture and game product is not fullfilling my expectations so I am not using this kind of entertaiment (not playing mmos for over 2 years already). Why should I?
This article is beyond stupid, almost every mmo that has launched in the west has done well enough to sustain itself and the company making/publishing it.
Rift, GW, Tera, Aion, FFXI all didn't set the world on fire but they are all successfull enough to sustain the companies that run them. If Rift wasn't a success Trion would of closed long ago, same for Tera and Aion. FFXI made SE a fortune.
You don't have to have millions of players to be a success and make a lot of money, heck even STO is a success.
As long as the companies make priofits it's successful, considering how much these games cost to make and how long you can run an MMO they are pretty much money for nothing after a while. They wouldn't keep making them if they weren't cash cows.
Aion, Tera, and FFXI are not Western games.
ya and GW1 I believe did have localized in other country. I bought a Taiwaness version of GW1 and played a bit. GW2 is set to release in korean, china etc.
I think people are missing the point. The asian market is huge. Most western games failed to "infiltrate" the asian market, and that is what set the difference.
If STO is successful, there is probably a few hundred mmorpg more profit than STO in asia. There is just so much more games because they have a better and larger market for it.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
OP should do a bit of looking into defintions, cause last time i checked if it paid for the intial cost of makeing the game and then turned profit then it was a success.
correct me if im wrong on this but not everything has to be mesured by WoW, doyou thinbk small crack in the wall pizza places care if they sell as much as pizza ut or dominos, no. why? because what matters is the bottom line not what other peoples bottom line is.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
You do know that Americans work more hours per week than people in most other industrialized nations, right? It's how we continue to keep the economic engine running while other countries falter.Now it is true, we do seem to like to play games rather than work in them, but perhaps that makes sense.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think this is an issue facing the "developed" world, not just the US. Past economic success and influence has made many believe we have some sort of right to be at the top. If you look at GDP many countries once described as "third world" are catching us up.
err actullly this is incorrect, we USED to work more hours on average then other countries this is no longer the case, between bad job econamy and worker right laws we work about even or less then the average for most countrie now.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.