its funny on the forums, they are deleting ANYTHING bad you say about it, even if its a question. They dont care they are just making sure its nothing bad, and that it seems everyone loves it.
Originally posted by Aadien its funny on the forums, they are deleting ANYTHING bad you say about it, even if its a question. They dont care they are just making sure its nothing bad, and that it seems everyone loves it.
Originally posted by muffins89 all of that gear you an easily acquire in game without spending a cent.
Yep, and I always thought pay 2 win games were the ones where you HAVE to pay or you cant win .
Exactly. A pay to win game means that there is no other way other than spending cash to get the items. All that gear obtainable in game so I do not understand why people are getting upset. I myself will continue to play and get gear the legit way, and other people buying their gear if they want wont ruin my experience at all.
The gear on my main is better than what is in the cashshop so really I don't care, it will not affect how I play the game and I will continue on playing.
Think of it as STARTER GEAR when you max level so who cares
How did anyone ever believe that this is NOT the way F2P games would go eventually ?
It will only stop when players refuse to buy the items, but there's no sign of that happening.
It's really only a matter of time before max-level characters (with optional extra epic gear) can be bought in the Cash Shop on Day 1.
And why not ? You could earn all that through normal game play as well, it would just "take longer". So selling max-level toons in the Cash Shop is not P2W...
Just to correct some people in this thread, there has not been a change of CEO, theres been a change of lead developer. Lars Butler is still the CEO as he has been since the beginning of the company.
its funny how same post complaints that "expert " dungeons are too easy now but complains about expert dungeon gear ( basically harder version of 5 man, take wow for example expert=heroic )
if its so easy why would you spend money to buy gear, and most of player base raids, because getting pugs for entry level raids isnt hard and that gear beats blue expert gear not to mention purple expert gear thats not for sale?
and all open world rift gear ( purchased by currency you get for participating in rifts ) which is superior even to entry level raids let a lone blue expert gear
yes selling gear is just wrong and i feel like they will hurt themself more by doing it, but rift is same as wow, ding max lvl, do normals for 2 days, do heroics for 2 days, if you are hardcore, do heroics for a day, go raiding , at best they remove one of best portion of the game and lets you skip half week of playing thats is actually fun
i am all against this cash shop and worried about archeage now, but gear they sell is meaningless in rift
From what I can tell the pre raid gear can be bought in whats basically a watered down version of what you obtain from actually doing the dungeon runs.
The high tier items can be bought only after you have the faction rep. / requirements. Which is not easily obtained.
While I may not agree with some of the choices they made to me its not that big of a deal. I personally find the game fun and will continue to play.
I can see where some people would be put off by some of the cash shop items tho. From what I understand this game was pretty much on life support and this may actually keep it up and running, keep updates and expansions coming, ect.
I dont see anything as being P2W, which I define as you must buy it with cash or you cant compete. Everything looks optional to buy and can be gotten in game, and the best gear can only be gotten in game. The hardcore raiders are up in arms it seems, but after reading the posts they are more concerned with e peen size than whats actually good for the game. I suppose they would rather it shut down than have some F2P noob wearing gear that actually is not even close to what they get from raiding.
Rift's F2p model is not P2W by any means. Want P2W check out Neverwinter Night and then we'll talk about P2W. I find their F2P model incredibly generous, you can do anything in game without EVER spending a dime out of your pocket. Unlike other F2P models like Swtor, Lotro etc.
I haven't really looked at whats on the REX store but isn't the ingame store still just on test servers? Can't they remove items if they need too before it goes live?
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
I haven't really looked at whats on the REX store but isn't the ingame store still just on test servers? Can't they remove items if they need too before it goes live?
They can and they did, some essences and some other stuff (you still needet the required rep to buy them btw) where allrdy removed from the shop because of feedback from the community they are actively asking the community on the pts forum which items they want in the shop and which they dont want.
To me, it seems like this whole concept of cash shops is evolving. Slowly changing what is okay to sell in the shop, and people are fine with it, it seems.
In my eyes, stat gear of any kind, don't belong in cash shops, nor does gambling boxes, or potions that give more currency, reputation, etc.
5-10% high paying users of cash shops, is what I've seen quoted and written a lot on these forums. Cash shop games go down this route, and have to keep that percentage of players happy. This means that development and progression of the actual game slows, and development on the cash shop, to keep that percentage of users happy, rises. To me, cash shops are a scourge upon MMOs.
Originally posted by Grunty Equivalent bags are readily available from other players in the auction house. This isn't an asian game where the only way to get more bag space is to pay cash for it.
You don't get it, what happens when you have the same type of items competing between the cash shop and the game is that the in game currency price of things will INFLATE, its called inflation. Making your in gold currency worth less, thus driving up the cost of those player made bags in game. You will see a huge influx of game currency once it goes F2P and you can start buying things with real money.
You will see, its just basic economics, one currency affects the other, the price of items will change, its inevitable.
Why are you people complaining. Do you really think you should be able to freeload all the way to end game content and including end game content?
That's a ridiculous hope and dream. You realize (as you often say) that paying gamers is here to pay your way and now you complain when such a mechanic exists.
The (insert word) is thick with this place.
EDIT: My GF just explained it to me. They expect the same game experience being free while I'm paying. If that's true then you can stuff it.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
This means that development and progression of the actual game slows, and development on the cash shop, to keep that percentage of users happy, rises. To me, cash shops are a scourge upon MMOs.
I agree with you. Especially because of this.
While I agree with Adokas that this is what could happen, recent history dictates that this is not what has happened at all. DDO would have been shut down years ago without the f2p model. Since f2p they have released a full expansion and are gearing up for a second. LotRO and SWTOR have both kept up aggressive game progression since going f2p. Tera and TSW (b2p but still cash shop) would both be on the way to memory lane without having gone to a cash shop model. GW2 didn't even bother going subscription, opened with a cash shop, game development is off the charts, and is the only AAA title in recent memory that has not seen the type of 95% player base drop off we've come to expect in recent years.
To me, the scourge of MMOs would be that all of the above titles didn't modify their business models and simply shut down after 2 years. The only thing that would be slowing then would be mmo development in general.
Originally posted by RollieJoe After Defiance and now this cash grab, looks like Trion has fallen very far as a studio.
Makes me so sad. Of course, thats why Scott Hartsman peaced the fuck out. He knew this shit was coming and has the fucking ethical and moral fortitude to tell them to eat his dick.
There was a day when i thought Trion would be the studio that others could model themselves after. They were for a good couple years. But. Greed always wins out in the end.
Can't friggin wait till camelot unchained is out.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I have never played Rift end game so I don't know how it compares but in EQ2 one the most difficult things for new players is breaking into the end game after leveling up. Few people want to take under geared or even equally geared people into the harder dungeons with them and even fewer established raiding guilds want to have to run older content to gear up new players. EQ2 has handled this issue by making really good solo gear but that has caused other issues by pissing off the raiders because of how close the gear is to first tier raid gear anymore.
Like I said I'm not sure how the dynamics of Rift end game works but wouldn't putting gear up in the cash shop have the benefit of letting players who want to jump into the end game without having to beg for charity groups to run them though content?
Why are you people complaining. Do you really think you should be able to freeload all the way to end game content and including end game content?
That's a ridiculous hope and dream. You realize (as you often say) that paying gamers is here to pay your way and now you complain when such a mechanic exists.
The (insert word) is thick with this place.
EDIT: My GF just explained it to me. They expect the same game experience being free while I'm paying. If that's true then you can stuff it.
Actually I would have prefered the game to stay subscription based. I mean I paid for a YEAR sub because I loved the game. I understand they are trying to make more money. I just hate cash shops soo much. I have tried to look past them and enjoy the games for what they are, but it the end the cash shop is always smacking me in the face, and the game constantly reminds you it is there.
Originally posted by RollieJoe After Defiance and now this cash grab, looks like Trion has fallen very far as a studio.
Makes me so sad. Of course, thats why Scott Hartsman peaced the fuck out. He knew this shit was coming and has the fucking ethical and moral fortitude to tell them to eat his dick.
There was a day when i thought Trion would be the studio that others could model themselves after. They were for a good couple years. But. Greed always wins out in the end.
Can't friggin wait till camelot unchained is out.
"Massively: Trion said that internal F2P discussions have been happening for some time. Did that play a role in your decision to leave, or was it more of a looking-for-new-challenges thing?
Scott Hartsman: No role in it whatsoever. The initial rounds of exploring what potential new models could look like were on my whiteboard for a long time. At the time I left, the folks charged with the real, hard work of evolving those conversations into the right answer for RIFT and turning them into a reality were exactly the right people to pull it off. That remains true today.
These are people who know the game well. They care about the game, its customers, and its ability to endure as a business. I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done!"
Originally posted by RollieJoe After Defiance and now this cash grab, looks like Trion has fallen very far as a studio.
Yup. I have totally written off TRION as studio. At least People now know what to expect from Archage.
Guess People are less happy now, seeing what has become from TRION.
It's like their HQ has been raided by a hostile Asian F2P Company take over. Like PWE or something. /shrug
Absolutely not interested in ArcheAge now. If TESO and Wildstar are like this as well, I'm done with mmorpgs.
It is really weird actually though. How can a company make this many mistakes in a row. They started out awesome, releasing an amazingly polished game that had consistant updates throughout its life that were incredibly large, and had one of the biggest expansions in an MMO, then released more content right after that. Then came defiance, which honestly wasn't THAT bad, but it was a cash grab based on how buggy and not polished it was when it came out, it showed what Trion started to focus on. Then they announced F2P Rift which made sense, it wasn't really flourishing it was just kind of a stagnant population and they wanted to bring more people in. They promised no pay to win and then they decided to put all kinds of gear in the cash shop? What the hell were they thinking. It just makes no sense that a company that great started making these really poor decisions. Did someone take it over or something? I didn't see any buyouts or any changes in the CEO or anyone that would have a big say in anything like this. It's like they went from being a gamers company to being EA.
There actually was a CEO change and the f2p model is rumored to be the reason, although he denies it. Honestly, though, I don't think most remaining rift players care what is in the cash shop. The people I play with just like to play rift. It never has been WoW, where people would stroll around with amazing looking gear that took them months to earn while a trail of people followed saying, "where did you get that?" So, yeah, a lot of hard-core raiders will be leaving but there weren't enough of them to keep the game alive anyway.
Even with the low to medium population on my shard the end-game zone events were always well-populated at any time of day. These are not hard-core, or even all that hard. Nobody in these groups care who has what gear and you could play them in greens at level 58. But people play them all the time because they are darn fun. This is what Rift is about, not about hard-core raiding and cool gear.
Currently on xfire (yeah, I know, it doesn't actually mean much) rift is ranked 33 with 1300 hours and it isn't even open to the f2p market yet! Three weeks ago it was hovering at around 400 hours per day. So while it remains to be seen if these decisions are actually good or bad, at the moment things are looking pretty good.
What server are you on? It sounds cool...I get pissed on if I so much as have one green gearpiece.
Comments
Only on the general forums. Not the PTS forum.
Example:
http://forums.riftgame.com/public-test-shard/359646-rift-officially-paytowin.html
haha this is a joke right ? why would you sub to a ftp game anyways ? the perks for subbing are a joke anyways .
Yep, and I always thought pay 2 win games were the ones where you HAVE to pay or you cant win .
let's market them as convenience items. the players won't know the difference.
Exactly. A pay to win game means that there is no other way other than spending cash to get the items. All that gear obtainable in game so I do not understand why people are getting upset. I myself will continue to play and get gear the legit way, and other people buying their gear if they want wont ruin my experience at all.
The gear on my main is better than what is in the cashshop so really I don't care, it will not affect how I play the game and I will continue on playing.
Think of it as STARTER GEAR when you max level so who cares
How did anyone ever believe that this is NOT the way F2P games would go eventually ?
It will only stop when players refuse to buy the items, but there's no sign of that happening.
It's really only a matter of time before max-level characters (with optional extra epic gear) can be bought in the Cash Shop on Day 1.
And why not ? You could earn all that through normal game play as well, it would just "take longer". So selling max-level toons in the Cash Shop is not P2W...
its funny how same post complaints that "expert " dungeons are too easy now but complains about expert dungeon gear ( basically harder version of 5 man, take wow for example expert=heroic )
if its so easy why would you spend money to buy gear, and most of player base raids, because getting pugs for entry level raids isnt hard and that gear beats blue expert gear not to mention purple expert gear thats not for sale?
and all open world rift gear ( purchased by currency you get for participating in rifts ) which is superior even to entry level raids let a lone blue expert gear
yes selling gear is just wrong and i feel like they will hurt themself more by doing it, but rift is same as wow, ding max lvl, do normals for 2 days, do heroics for 2 days, if you are hardcore, do heroics for a day, go raiding , at best they remove one of best portion of the game and lets you skip half week of playing thats is actually fun
i am all against this cash shop and worried about archeage now, but gear they sell is meaningless in rift
I can honestly say I'm done with Trion.
First defiance - Horrible support, lack of content, updates consisting of collection quests.
Now Rift, a game that was doing absolutely fine, turned into a F2P piece of crap.
Well done Trion, i remember a few months ago thinking you where a good company, that delivered quality games.
Haha... Well, no longer.
From what I can tell the pre raid gear can be bought in whats basically a watered down version of what you obtain from actually doing the dungeon runs.
The high tier items can be bought only after you have the faction rep. / requirements. Which is not easily obtained.
While I may not agree with some of the choices they made to me its not that big of a deal. I personally find the game fun and will continue to play.
I can see where some people would be put off by some of the cash shop items tho. From what I understand this game was pretty much on life support and this may actually keep it up and running, keep updates and expansions coming, ect.
I dont see anything as being P2W, which I define as you must buy it with cash or you cant compete. Everything looks optional to buy and can be gotten in game, and the best gear can only be gotten in game. The hardcore raiders are up in arms it seems, but after reading the posts they are more concerned with e peen size than whats actually good for the game. I suppose they would rather it shut down than have some F2P noob wearing gear that actually is not even close to what they get from raiding.
Rift's F2p model is not P2W by any means. Want P2W check out Neverwinter Night and then we'll talk about P2W. I find their F2P model incredibly generous, you can do anything in game without EVER spending a dime out of your pocket. Unlike other F2P models like Swtor, Lotro etc.
I haven't really looked at whats on the REX store but isn't the ingame store still just on test servers? Can't they remove items if they need too before it goes live?
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
They can and they did, some essences and some other stuff (you still needet the required rep to buy them btw) where allrdy removed from the shop because of feedback from the community they are actively asking the community on the pts forum which items they want in the shop and which they dont want.To me, it seems like this whole concept of cash shops is evolving. Slowly changing what is okay to sell in the shop, and people are fine with it, it seems.
In my eyes, stat gear of any kind, don't belong in cash shops, nor does gambling boxes, or potions that give more currency, reputation, etc.
5-10% high paying users of cash shops, is what I've seen quoted and written a lot on these forums. Cash shop games go down this route, and have to keep that percentage of players happy. This means that development and progression of the actual game slows, and development on the cash shop, to keep that percentage of users happy, rises. To me, cash shops are a scourge upon MMOs.
You don't get it, what happens when you have the same type of items competing between the cash shop and the game is that the in game currency price of things will INFLATE, its called inflation. Making your in gold currency worth less, thus driving up the cost of those player made bags in game. You will see a huge influx of game currency once it goes F2P and you can start buying things with real money.
You will see, its just basic economics, one currency affects the other, the price of items will change, its inevitable.
Why are you people complaining. Do you really think you should be able to freeload all the way to end game content and including end game content?
That's a ridiculous hope and dream. You realize (as you often say) that paying gamers is here to pay your way and now you complain when such a mechanic exists.
The (insert word) is thick with this place.
EDIT: My GF just explained it to me. They expect the same game experience being free while I'm paying. If that's true then you can stuff it.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
While I agree with Adokas that this is what could happen, recent history dictates that this is not what has happened at all. DDO would have been shut down years ago without the f2p model. Since f2p they have released a full expansion and are gearing up for a second. LotRO and SWTOR have both kept up aggressive game progression since going f2p. Tera and TSW (b2p but still cash shop) would both be on the way to memory lane without having gone to a cash shop model. GW2 didn't even bother going subscription, opened with a cash shop, game development is off the charts, and is the only AAA title in recent memory that has not seen the type of 95% player base drop off we've come to expect in recent years.
To me, the scourge of MMOs would be that all of the above titles didn't modify their business models and simply shut down after 2 years. The only thing that would be slowing then would be mmo development in general.
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
Makes me so sad. Of course, thats why Scott Hartsman peaced the fuck out. He knew this shit was coming and has the fucking ethical and moral fortitude to tell them to eat his dick.
There was a day when i thought Trion would be the studio that others could model themselves after. They were for a good couple years. But. Greed always wins out in the end.
Can't friggin wait till camelot unchained is out.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I have never played Rift end game so I don't know how it compares but in EQ2 one the most difficult things for new players is breaking into the end game after leveling up. Few people want to take under geared or even equally geared people into the harder dungeons with them and even fewer established raiding guilds want to have to run older content to gear up new players. EQ2 has handled this issue by making really good solo gear but that has caused other issues by pissing off the raiders because of how close the gear is to first tier raid gear anymore.
Like I said I'm not sure how the dynamics of Rift end game works but wouldn't putting gear up in the cash shop have the benefit of letting players who want to jump into the end game without having to beg for charity groups to run them though content?
Actually I would have prefered the game to stay subscription based. I mean I paid for a YEAR sub because I loved the game. I understand they are trying to make more money. I just hate cash shops soo much. I have tried to look past them and enjoy the games for what they are, but it the end the cash shop is always smacking me in the face, and the game constantly reminds you it is there.
"Massively: Trion said that internal F2P discussions have been happening for some time. Did that play a role in your decision to leave, or was it more of a looking-for-new-challenges thing?
Scott Hartsman: No role in it whatsoever. The initial rounds of exploring what potential new models could look like were on my whiteboard for a long time. At the time I left, the folks charged with the real, hard work of evolving those conversations into the right answer for RIFT and turning them into a reality were exactly the right people to pull it off. That remains true today.
These are people who know the game well. They care about the game, its customers, and its ability to endure as a business. I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done!"
link
Can you please link for me anywhere that Scott told Trion to eat anything?
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
What server are you on? It sounds cool...I get pissed on if I so much as have one green gearpiece.