I would go so far as to say that the community is more important than any actual gameplay element or the game itself. Unless said game is just complete, utter garbage.
If FFXIV isn't group oriented like FFXI then I certainly won't bother reactivating.
I want FFXI 2.0.......not a wow clone with a Final Fantasy skin.
It depends on what you consider to be group oriented. In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back. Though that does not mean that systems won't be in that require groups. These don't even have to be dungeons or raids, but systems that they create in addition to those and side quests / leves that will probably be solo based (as they were in XIV save for the fact leves were more efficient if you had a group towards the beginning of the game).
Just seek out those systems and forget about any commonly accepted solo paths that may or may not be in the game.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back.
People say that but how do we really know ? Maybe the game that gets developed brings in all the people who actually miss the old school mmos that had a point as far a groups go, and this game ends up with a stable population of players instead of catering to the mmo sampler that always seems to move on and leaves developers in a panic 2-3 months in.
It seems that always catering to the solo players has only left them an empty shell with 0 community and nothing really going on after the new game rush moves on.
If FFXIV isn't group oriented like FFXI then I certainly won't bother reactivating.
I want FFXI 2.0.......not a wow clone with a Final Fantasy skin.
It depends on what you consider to be group oriented. In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back. Though that does not mean that systems won't be in that require groups. These don't even have to be dungeons or raids, but systems that they create in addition to those and side quests / leves that will probably be solo based (as they were in XIV save for the fact leves were more efficient if you had a group towards the beginning of the game).
Just seek out those systems and forget about any commonly accepted solo paths that may or may not be in the game.
You cant please both groups. this game's fanbase hails from FFXI. which quite clearly puts it in the Group oriented crowd.
In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back.
People say that but how do we really know ? Maybe the game that gets developed brings in all the people who actually miss the old school mmos that had a point as far a groups go, and this game ends up with a stable population of players instead of catering to the mmo sampler that always seems to move on and leaves developers in a panic 2-3 months in.
It seems that always catering to the solo players has only left them an empty shell with 0 community and nothing really going on after the new game rush moves on.
I wouldn't mind if a game was more about communities and grouping than anything else. Maybe we'll actually differ from just plain single player games with online capabilities in that regard. But with A Realm Reborn specifically, it would just be bad to "take that chance" and ignore the solo content when they have been paying massive amounts of money rebuilding the game from scratch after people tore it a new one. It deserved the score it got, and they've admitted that time and again, but taking chances when they're already hurting due to poor sales (when compared to what they expected) of Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs (even if they were released after development of ARR started, it just reinforces what to work on thenceforth) by focusing only on the unknown would be a huge gamble.
It's a sad thing that many don't read or look up context when it comes to gaming in most cases, and even if something is the most innovated thing, people will go out of their way to tear it a new one (and many will look at these vocal people/title threads and just think it's fact). But there's also a crowd whereby if they see anything that resembles something in the past, it's an instant clone regardless of the other things that are worked on. I'd imagine people will see levequests and whatever Square Enix makes Side Quests to be (whether solo or not) and say it's a solo game with nothing for grouping. Maybe they'll see a exclamation mark above side quest heads and call it a WoW clone:
But having something that people are used to and can use as a transition point into learning new things is, in my humble opinion, the way to go when you don't want to take any chances. To take something, give it iteration, add new systems beyond that and then give it a unique feeling according to whatever franchise it is based after.
Just because it has solo capabilities does not make it void of group activities or make it a group based game. Sometimes even solo based things will be more efficient if you're in a group. I know Behests and Hamlets were group based back in 1.0... we'll just have to see how they've evolved (well Behests scaled based on how many people you had, but you could get massive experience for more people as opposed to just doing it by yourself and getting little to none... quite similar to how much more efficient it was to level in parties on XI as opposed to being a beast master or grinding easy mobs and resting for five minutes).
Who knows? It might be that you can level solo, but only progress in the story through traditional Final Fantasy means (though if this was the case, I would doubt the first couple story missions will require this as most need to be sucked into it before the commit) in that you need a group of people (pure speculation and based on the fact that all mainstream or numbered FF games had a party whereby you travel to places and go through the story together) to advance or beat it. Though if that's the case, there may be a mixture of solo and party based missions (maybe even ones that require the help of your trust chocobo partner or your path companion back in 1.0... which I'm hoping will make a return in a future patch or expansion).
If 1.0 is any indication, the storyline(s)will be advanced with patches and new classes will be introduced at the same time. It will be like a never ending Final Fantasy game in that respect (until the stories end and an expansion is released with new stories).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
If FFXIV isn't group oriented like FFXI then I certainly won't bother reactivating.
I want FFXI 2.0.......not a wow clone with a Final Fantasy skin.
It depends on what you consider to be group oriented. In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back. Though that does not mean that systems won't be in that require groups. These don't even have to be dungeons or raids, but systems that they create in addition to those and side quests / leves that will probably be solo based (as they were in XIV save for the fact leves were more efficient if you had a group towards the beginning of the game).
Just seek out those systems and forget about any commonly accepted solo paths that may or may not be in the game.
You cant please both groups. this game's fanbase hails from FFXI. which quite clearly puts it in the Group oriented crowd.
Though sadly most of them abandoned the game when it didn't live up to expectations. I would imagine they're looking to impress a larger piece of the pie now. While also having the Final Fantasy Flare and some of what old FFXI players would expect / want (but in a new package and with new iterations as opposed to archaic systems).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Things have changed. Was just playing with friends the other night talking about my first time in UO, having a complete stranger hook me up with a horse, lead me to a safe area, introduce me to people and dedicate weeks of his own time tp helping 12 year old me get started.
Nowadays you're either someone competing for quest mobs or berries, a means to an end in a queued dungeon run, or a random person to flame in area chat. Not a fellow player, or a member of the community. People suck anymore. Simple as that.
Things have changed. Was just playing with friends the other night talking about my first time in UO, having a complete stranger hook me up with a horse, lead me to a safe area, introduce me to people and dedicate weeks of his own time tp helping 12 year old me get started.
Nowadays you're either someone competing for quest mobs or berries, a means to an end in a queued dungeon run, or a random person to flame in area chat. Not a fellow player, or a member of the community. People suck anymore. Simple as that.
I dont think people suck. Sure, theres alot of players these days who dont play the MMOs for the same reasons and the same way most of us did 15 years ago. (those who play mostly for competition and not for the immersive/social aspect)
But alot of it is also due to the fact that MMOs today are played by many people and have faster leveling. Now in a popular game, another player is just another random toon in thousands of others and you most likely wont remember them or meet them again because theres so many, there are instances etc.
In UO and other older games there was significantly less players and slower advancement so there was a much better chance you'll meet them again around the same area. Its just like a city vs. a village in real life. Youre more familiar and cooperative with your neighbours in a smaller community.
You can attempt to remedy this slightly by joining a social/casual guild (though its not the same) or even play on a RP server.
Or play some less popular and populated MMO but that of course is in danger of shutting down if its not designed to be like that.
Things have changed. Was just playing with friends the other night talking about my first time in UO, having a complete stranger hook me up with a horse, lead me to a safe area, introduce me to people and dedicate weeks of his own time tp helping 12 year old me get started.
Nowadays you're either someone competing for quest mobs or berries, a means to an end in a queued dungeon run, or a random person to flame in area chat. Not a fellow player, or a member of the community. People suck anymore. Simple as that.
People are forgetting that brutally difficult and impossible to solo is not the same as group oriented. Look at ffxi nowadays...even THAT had adopted solo-friendly options such as the journal pages. You're MOST efficient method is still partying up with people....but this offers something to do instead of wasting your time sitting lfg all damn day. It's all in the execution...and nobody here can say whether the final product will find the right balance or not.
Even people in Beta are A) Under NDA and Playing AN UNFINISHED PRODUCT
I for one will be reserving any judgment for when it actually comes out, and even then ill stick with it for a while to see what changes are made. Because just like you can release a game and it go horribly and then patch it into a "fixed" state (ala 1.0), you can also have the opposite happen...
Long story short: Let's see what happens when it's done.
Comments
If FFXIV isn't group oriented like FFXI then I certainly won't bother reactivating.
I want FFXI 2.0.......not a wow clone with a Final Fantasy skin.
I like the OP
Edit: I'm also insane.
It depends on what you consider to be group oriented. In today's age, it would be folly for them to ignore the solo oriented players, especially since they are incurring the costs of remaking the entire game and want to make that money back. Though that does not mean that systems won't be in that require groups. These don't even have to be dungeons or raids, but systems that they create in addition to those and side quests / leves that will probably be solo based (as they were in XIV save for the fact leves were more efficient if you had a group towards the beginning of the game).
Just seek out those systems and forget about any commonly accepted solo paths that may or may not be in the game.
People say that but how do we really know ? Maybe the game that gets developed brings in all the people who actually miss the old school mmos that had a point as far a groups go, and this game ends up with a stable population of players instead of catering to the mmo sampler that always seems to move on and leaves developers in a panic 2-3 months in.
It seems that always catering to the solo players has only left them an empty shell with 0 community and nothing really going on after the new game rush moves on.
You cant please both groups. this game's fanbase hails from FFXI. which quite clearly puts it in the Group oriented crowd.
I wouldn't mind if a game was more about communities and grouping than anything else. Maybe we'll actually differ from just plain single player games with online capabilities in that regard. But with A Realm Reborn specifically, it would just be bad to "take that chance" and ignore the solo content when they have been paying massive amounts of money rebuilding the game from scratch after people tore it a new one. It deserved the score it got, and they've admitted that time and again, but taking chances when they're already hurting due to poor sales (when compared to what they expected) of Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs (even if they were released after development of ARR started, it just reinforces what to work on thenceforth) by focusing only on the unknown would be a huge gamble.
It's a sad thing that many don't read or look up context when it comes to gaming in most cases, and even if something is the most innovated thing, people will go out of their way to tear it a new one (and many will look at these vocal people/title threads and just think it's fact). But there's also a crowd whereby if they see anything that resembles something in the past, it's an instant clone regardless of the other things that are worked on. I'd imagine people will see levequests and whatever Square Enix makes Side Quests to be (whether solo or not) and say it's a solo game with nothing for grouping. Maybe they'll see a exclamation mark above side quest heads and call it a WoW clone:
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSO4DgXzeTs&list=UUpx2BZg8ABgaDV50sGJtWAg&index=32 );
Maybe they'll see five man dungeons:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe09gta0WAw&list=UUpx2BZg8ABgaDV50sGJtWAg&index=30)
...and raids and call it a WoW clone.
(The above are alpha videos from Square Enix)
But having something that people are used to and can use as a transition point into learning new things is, in my humble opinion, the way to go when you don't want to take any chances. To take something, give it iteration, add new systems beyond that and then give it a unique feeling according to whatever franchise it is based after.
Just because it has solo capabilities does not make it void of group activities or make it a group based game. Sometimes even solo based things will be more efficient if you're in a group. I know Behests and Hamlets were group based back in 1.0... we'll just have to see how they've evolved (well Behests scaled based on how many people you had, but you could get massive experience for more people as opposed to just doing it by yourself and getting little to none... quite similar to how much more efficient it was to level in parties on XI as opposed to being a beast master or grinding easy mobs and resting for five minutes).
Who knows? It might be that you can level solo, but only progress in the story through traditional Final Fantasy means (though if this was the case, I would doubt the first couple story missions will require this as most need to be sucked into it before the commit) in that you need a group of people (pure speculation and based on the fact that all mainstream or numbered FF games had a party whereby you travel to places and go through the story together) to advance or beat it. Though if that's the case, there may be a mixture of solo and party based missions (maybe even ones that require the help of your trust chocobo partner or your path companion back in 1.0... which I'm hoping will make a return in a future patch or expansion).
If 1.0 is any indication, the storyline(s)will be advanced with patches and new classes will be introduced at the same time. It will be like a never ending Final Fantasy game in that respect (until the stories end and an expansion is released with new stories).
Though sadly most of them abandoned the game when it didn't live up to expectations. I would imagine they're looking to impress a larger piece of the pie now. While also having the Final Fantasy Flare and some of what old FFXI players would expect / want (but in a new package and with new iterations as opposed to archaic systems).
Things have changed. Was just playing with friends the other night talking about my first time in UO, having a complete stranger hook me up with a horse, lead me to a safe area, introduce me to people and dedicate weeks of his own time tp helping 12 year old me get started.
Nowadays you're either someone competing for quest mobs or berries, a means to an end in a queued dungeon run, or a random person to flame in area chat. Not a fellow player, or a member of the community. People suck anymore. Simple as that.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
There have been some mmo's since ffxi, you just haven't been playing them.
Vanguard has a great community as does lotro Laurelin server.
Ryzom has a great community, Wurm Online has a great community, i could name a few more.
I dont think people suck. Sure, theres alot of players these days who dont play the MMOs for the same reasons and the same way most of us did 15 years ago. (those who play mostly for competition and not for the immersive/social aspect)
But alot of it is also due to the fact that MMOs today are played by many people and have faster leveling. Now in a popular game, another player is just another random toon in thousands of others and you most likely wont remember them or meet them again because theres so many, there are instances etc.
In UO and other older games there was significantly less players and slower advancement so there was a much better chance you'll meet them again around the same area. Its just like a city vs. a village in real life. Youre more familiar and cooperative with your neighbours in a smaller community.
You can attempt to remedy this slightly by joining a social/casual guild (though its not the same) or even play on a RP server.
Or play some less popular and populated MMO but that of course is in danger of shutting down if its not designed to be like that.
Yay for you.
People are forgetting that brutally difficult and impossible to solo is not the same as group oriented. Look at ffxi nowadays...even THAT had adopted solo-friendly options such as the journal pages. You're MOST efficient method is still partying up with people....but this offers something to do instead of wasting your time sitting lfg all damn day. It's all in the execution...and nobody here can say whether the final product will find the right balance or not.
Even people in Beta are A) Under NDA and
Playing AN UNFINISHED PRODUCT
I for one will be reserving any judgment for when it actually comes out, and even then ill stick with it for a while to see what changes are made. Because just like you can release a game and it go horribly and then patch it into a "fixed" state (ala 1.0), you can also have the opposite happen...
Long story short: Let's see what happens when it's done.