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Reluctantly hoping this game fails

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  • Punk999Punk999 Member UncommonPosts: 882

    If NW gets to the real level of pay to win (Allods) than i will agree... tho it's not at that level yet.

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216

    If people want sub games so bad, why dont they go play sub games?  Oh wait, they hate all those too.  They arent "worth" $15 a month, I guess only warcraft and eve (maybe rift) are worth $15 a month.

     

    I learned to enjoy things alot more by doing this, I spend what I feel is acceptable (heck you can even budget yourself $15 a month!), if I stop having fun I quit, but if I dont I keep playing. 

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by RizelStar

    I really don't like neither to be honest, non p2w f2p is fine though. P2P, never, even my dream MMORPG, I wouldn't pay per month for it, not a damn video game at least.

    We can argue the whole movies and 15 cent a day and etc, I still don't think P2P is best.

    Cause in all honesty, I know damn well the devs don't need that shit to do what they do, yet people fall for it time an time again.

    They did it well though, tricked people into believing that only P2P produces good quality, fast patches, good support, but it's all good cause it's only a matter of time, more B2P MMORPG's come out, more P2P going B2P, yea it's a matter of time, now for this website, I doubt it, people will stay stubborn and narrowminded and think P2P is the only way to get a great MMORPG, already being proved wrong, but I understan need more great B2P MMORPGs.

    I do agree though, p2w f2p, p2w b2p, p2w p2p, those models need to die before anything else.

     

    Not saying Neverwinter is P2W, then really if it's like P2W but it's only a win by level and doesn't effect no body other than the idiot who paid just to be first max or to bypass all the playing then that's his/her decision to ruin their own gaming experiences, if it doesn't fuck with you then it shouldn't matter, if it does, then that's when the issue arises. Jealousy and/or just knowing that person exist shouldn't count though.

     

    Dude do you even know how MMOs work at all?  Your reply shows  how little you really know.  If MMOs do not make money on a consistent bases you have no period.  You need to pay for consistently replacing hardware even if it’s only every 3 to 5 years you still need to pay to replace it.  You need to pay for an Internet connection and you are going to need an OC 192.  Just to give you an idea an OC3 it’s about $20K to $45K per month.  You need to pay for Systems Engineers, Database administrators, Developers and other technical people to support the application, hardware and systems.  Salaries for these people range from 24k a year up to 150K a year depending where they live.  B2P is a laughable for an MMO as a business model, you would make money right away an then loose in the long run.  Not a smart business model when you have monthly cost to operate the game.  This is not Dragon Age or Neverwinter nights which do not have operating cost.

    No the P2W model needs to die, it’s going to drive more people like me who would not mind a monthly subscription game with vanity pay for items like WoW has, or even some power leveling items.  Just nothing that matters at end game. 

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Derros

    If people want sub games so bad, why dont they go play sub games?  Oh wait, they hate all those too.  They arent "worth" $15 a month, I guess only warcraft and eve (maybe rift) are worth $15 a month.

     

    I learned to enjoy things alot more by doing this, I spend what I feel is acceptable (heck you can even budget yourself $15 a month!), if I stop having fun I quit, but if I dont I keep playing. 

     

    [mod edit]

    Well, good for you for putting money where your mouth is, most people here dont.  I used to pay a sub for WoW, and Rift, and Swtor, until I got bored of them.  Now adays I have many more options for entertainent where I dont need to pay a sub, which are just as fun, so a sub gave has to go far above and beyond what they offer currently to get me to open my wallet.

    I was merely (as ineloquent as it seemed) attempting to expain that people on these forums will gladly shovel every new p2p game into the coals, while at the same time decrying the loss of the p2p model, and that I found this entire threat ironic.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Derros
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Derros

    If people want sub games so bad, why dont they go play sub games?  Oh wait, they hate all those too.  They arent "worth" $15 a month, I guess only warcraft and eve (maybe rift) are worth $15 a month.

     

    I learned to enjoy things alot more by doing this, I spend what I feel is acceptable (heck you can even budget yourself $15 a month!), if I stop having fun I quit, but if I dont I keep playing. 

     

    [mod edit]

    Well, good for you for putting money where your mouth is, most people here dont.  I used to pay a sub for WoW, and Rift, and Swtor, until I got bored of them.  Now adays I have many more options for entertainent where I dont need to pay a sub, which are just as fun, so a sub gave has to go far above and beyond what they offer currently to get me to open my wallet.

    I was merely (as ineloquent as it seemed) attempting to expain that people on these forums will gladly shovel every new p2p game into the coals, while at the same time decrying the loss of the p2p model, and that I found this entire threat ironic.

     

    I will agree with you that some games are well honestly not worth the sub anymore.  (For me is WoW and RIFT) However the problem is with the F2P model that Neverwinter has come up with is more screwed up than SWTOR's and thats sad.  However Neverwinter does not have an option for it and much of what they sell is $10 to $25 per item.  Hell with $10 in SWTOR I was able to fully expand all my inventory slots on all characters and buy 3 3 hour XP buffs.  A bag in Neverwinter is $10. 

    Now if we want to talk about the cost of some of these MMO subscriptions being too much at $15 a month, I welcome that.  There has been talk about what about charging $5 or $10 a month for a subscription.  Good plan for games people deem not worth $15 a month.  The problem with Neverwinter is there is no option.  Pay $10 to $25 for every item like it or not. 

  • DeddpoolDeddpool Member UncommonPosts: 197

    1) Download game, spend 60 bucks in the shop

    2) Pay 15 a month in the shop

    3) Enjoy

     

    Problem solved.

    image

  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,434
    and this is why the f2p model isn't a solution. I understand that some people don't want to pay $15 a month for a bunch of different games. However, usually when you do pay a sub - you commit to that game for at least a while. Personally I don't care which model they use, but I prefer a sub. Either way they get a decent amount of my money. It's actually cheaper for me to pay a sub. There will always be moochers in communities. Give them games for free if you want, but don't give them the best games for free, and then make everyone else, who don't mind paying their share, pay more. It's not a balanced system, and it creates unlevel playing fields as mentioned previously. Not to mention that if noone ever used the cash shop - they wouldn't have one. It's only there because it makes more money than a sub would. 
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Deddpool

    1) Download game, spend 60 bucks in the shop

    2) Pay 15 a month in the shop

    3) Enjoy

     

    Problem solved.

    Your Logic fails hard. 

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297

    I want it to succeed and to get many new additions. I'm playing for free and the things in the cash shop don't tempt me at all.

    That's the trick to playing ftp for free.. just stop thinking a minor bonus or cosmetic actually matters, because it doesn't. I'd rather get beat a couple times in PvP than lose $200 on a game (not that getting beat in PvP would happen due to cash shop purchases anyway). It's clear to me who would be the real winner all things considered.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Derros
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Derros

    If people want sub games so bad, why dont they go play sub games?  Oh wait, they hate all those too.  They arent "worth" $15 a month, I guess only warcraft and eve (maybe rift) are worth $15 a month.

     

    I learned to enjoy things alot more by doing this, I spend what I feel is acceptable (heck you can even budget yourself $15 a month!), if I stop having fun I quit, but if I dont I keep playing. 

     

    [mod edit]

    Well, good for you for putting money where your mouth is, most people here dont.  I used to pay a sub for WoW, and Rift, and Swtor, until I got bored of them.  Now adays I have many more options for entertainent where I dont need to pay a sub, which are just as fun, so a sub gave has to go far above and beyond what they offer currently to get me to open my wallet.

    I was merely (as ineloquent as it seemed) attempting to expain that people on these forums will gladly shovel every new p2p game into the coals, while at the same time decrying the loss of the p2p model, and that I found this entire threat ironic.

     

    I will agree with you that some games are well honestly not worth the sub anymore.  (For me is WoW and RIFT) However the problem is with the F2P model that Neverwinter has come up with is more screwed up than SWTOR's and thats sad.  However Neverwinter does not have an option for it and much of what they sell is $10 to $25 per item.  Hell with $10 in SWTOR I was able to fully expand all my inventory slots on all characters and buy 3 3 hour XP buffs.  A bag in Neverwinter is $10. 

    Now if we want to talk about the cost of some of these MMO subscriptions being too much at $15 a month, I welcome that.  There has been talk about what about charging $5 or $10 a month for a subscription.  Good plan for games people deem not worth $15 a month.  The problem with Neverwinter is there is no option.  Pay $10 to $25 for every item like it or not. 

    There are, really only 2 things that I see in neverwinter that are worth paying for, a mount and character slots.  Thats basically it.  There are a few bags given by quests, the guild's that I am in, we use out bank to store all the filler items (enchants and runestones).  Bag wise, you just need to manage yourself.  Although I will agree that many things are overpriced for what they are worth.

     

    The only thing in the cash shop that I especially dislike is the respec token (although many would argue that being able to respec in a MMO is bad).  And if thats the only thing the cash shop that irks me, its done a fair job.

  • KrytycalKrytycal Member Posts: 520

    It's very disheartening to see people who want to see games fail and people out of jobs simply because they don't like the free to play model regardless of how good their work was. Whatever happened to supporting games because they are fun? If I'm enjoying it, I don't care what payment model it has. I consider TSW, PS2, LoTR and now Neverwinter (all F2P) to be better than 90% of subscription games out there. If switching to F2P ensures their sustainability, then I will support them.

    If you're discounting F2P simply based on their paymeny model, then you are missing out.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I want it to succeed and to get many new additions. I'm playing for free and the things in the cash shop don't tempt me at all.

    That's the trick to playing ftp for free.. just stop thinking a minor bonus or cosmetic actually matters, because it doesn't. I'd rather get beat a couple times in PvP than lose $200 on a game (not that getting beat in PvP would happen due to cash shop purchases anyway). It's clear to me who would be the real winner all things considered.

    Just wait until you cannot win without spending $200 a week for them bonuses.  Its been posted on here and I have had a few friends who played Runes of Magic.  Some people has spent thousands of dollars a month just to keep up raiding, my friends had to spend $500 a month to keep up raiding in a casual guild.  Games like that are a joke and should be removed from the MMO genera.  

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by mcrippins
    and this is why the f2p model isn't a solution......

    The thing is, what is the problem that we are looking for a solution to?  F2P is merely an option for people who like it.  I doubt many people here would consider neverwinter a game that was worth a monthly sub.

  • TwistingfateTwistingfate Member Posts: 177

    I started playing the game a few days ago with a friend of mine. Ive found it pretty fun so far. I play it for a few hours here and there so ive been enjoying it. I cant see it as a game to devote 20-40 hours a week to like some people do but its fun for a enjoyable romp here and there. I think the Foundry is going to add a huge amount of life to the game. Its one of the best choices you can make for an mmo. Let the players build the content :)

     

    Best wishes

    Saint.

    image

  • Punk999Punk999 Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Deddpool

    1) Download game, spend 60 bucks in the shop

    2) Pay 15 a month in the shop

    3) Enjoy

     

    Problem solved.

    Your Logic fails hard. 

    Please explain why his logic fails.

    I'd like to know :)

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I want it to succeed and to get many new additions. I'm playing for free and the things in the cash shop don't tempt me at all.

    That's the trick to playing ftp for free.. just stop thinking a minor bonus or cosmetic actually matters, because it doesn't. I'd rather get beat a couple times in PvP than lose $200 on a game (not that getting beat in PvP would happen due to cash shop purchases anyway). It's clear to me who would be the real winner all things considered.

    Just wait until you cannot win without spending $200 a week for them bonuses.  Its been posted on here and I have had a few friends who played Runes of Magic.  Some people has spent thousands of dollars a month just to keep up raiding, my friends had to spend $500 a month to keep up raiding in a casual guild.  Games like that are a joke and should be removed from the MMO genera.  

    If I get to a point in agame where that happens, I move to another.

    Whats the problem?

    I think you missed the part where I explain I'm not tempted at all. It might be a state of mind you can't comprehend but, trust me, these things don't matter.

    Not to mention there is no reason to think that's going to happen in NW at the moment, not for those who actually know everything that matters in the cash shop can be found ingame as well.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    It's very disheartening to see people who want to see games fail and people out of jobs simply because they don't like the free to play model regardless of how good their work was. Whatever happened to supporting games because they are fun? If I'm enjoying it, I don't care what payment model it has. I consider TSW, PS2, LoTR and now Neverwinter (all F2P) to be better than 90% of subscription games out there. If switching to F2P ensures their sustainability, then I will support them.

    If you're discounting F2P simply based on their paymeny model, then you are missing out.

    People are mad people the amount of money it will require to continue to play a game like neverwinter if they want to have really any chance of advance in a timely fashion.  Just take the bag in Neverwinter for example.  Its $10 for a 24 slot bag.  Really $10 for 1 column (Number_of_Bags) to say 2 instead of 1.  Really is that worth $10?  NO its a joke. 

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    It's very disheartening to see people who want to see games fail and people out of jobs simply because they don't like the free to play model regardless of how good their work was. Whatever happened to supporting games because they are fun? If I'm enjoying it, I don't care what payment model it has. I consider TSW, PS2, LoTR and now Neverwinter (all F2P) to be better than 90% of subscription games out there. If switching to F2P ensures their sustainability, then I will support them.

    If you're discounting F2P simply based on their paymeny model, then you are missing out.

    People are mad people the amount of money it will require to continue to play a game like neverwinter if they want to have really any chance of advance in a timely fashion.  Just take the bag in Neverwinter for example.  Its $10 for a 24 slot bag.  Really $10 for 1 column (Number_of_Bags) to say 2 instead of 1.  Really is that worth $10?  NO its a joke. 

    Then, dont buy them?  I've somehow managed just fine so far with the few bags given by quests and my guild's bank to drop all the enchanting stuff in.

     

    I would agree that they arent worth it, especially since they are character bound and not account bound.  $5 for an account bound 24 slot, sure, nothing more.  That isnt the price, so I wont pay.

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    It's very disheartening to see people who want to see games fail and people out of jobs simply because they don't like the free to play model regardless of how good their work was. Whatever happened to supporting games because they are fun? If I'm enjoying it, I don't care what payment model it has. I consider TSW, PS2, LoTR and now Neverwinter (all F2P) to be better than 90% of subscription games out there. If switching to F2P ensures their sustainability, then I will support them.

    If you're discounting F2P simply based on their paymeny model, then you are missing out.

    People are mad people the amount of money it will require to continue to play a game like neverwinter if they want to have really any chance of advance in a timely fashion.  Just take the bag in Neverwinter for example.  Its $10 for a 24 slot bag.  Really $10 for 1 column (Number_of_Bags) to say 2 instead of 1.  Really is that worth $10?  NO its a joke. 

    You get bags from quests throughout the campaign story and there's plenty up on the ingame AH for AD. You get what you need.. not what you 'think' you need.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Twistingfate

    I started playing the game a few days ago with a friend of mine. Ive found it pretty fun so far. I play it for a few hours here and there so ive been enjoying it. I cant see it as a game to devote 20-40 hours a week to like some people do but its fun for a enjoyable romp here and there. I think the Foundry is going to add a huge amount of life to the game. Its one of the best choices you can make for an mmo. Let the players build the content :)

     

    Best wishes

    Saint.

    still baffles me how many MMOs fail at this concept.. dev created content is fine and fun but you really want to keep people around for a long time give them the tools to make their own content.. and i don't mean like Rift or EQ2 style  instanced housing i mean something that actually is intregal to the entire game

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member UncommonPosts: 3,645
    Originally posted by Meriik
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    So don't spend any money and continue to enjoy playing, or are you unable to continue enjoying the game because of the presence of a cash shop? 

    Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly.  Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.

    Please explain how it impacts you?

    right now its looking like you are scared by the mere mention of a cash shop.

    This game is NOT pay to win by any streach of the imagination.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I want it to succeed and to get many new additions. I'm playing for free and the things in the cash shop don't tempt me at all.

    That's the trick to playing ftp for free.. just stop thinking a minor bonus or cosmetic actually matters, because it doesn't. I'd rather get beat a couple times in PvP than lose $200 on a game (not that getting beat in PvP would happen due to cash shop purchases anyway). It's clear to me who would be the real winner all things considered.

    Just wait until you cannot win without spending $200 a week for them bonuses.  Its been posted on here and I have had a few friends who played Runes of Magic.  Some people has spent thousands of dollars a month just to keep up raiding, my friends had to spend $500 a month to keep up raiding in a casual guild.  Games like that are a joke and should be removed from the MMO genera.  

    If I get to a point in agame where that happens, I move to another.

    Whats the problem?

    I think you missed the part where I explain I'm not tempted at all. It might be a state of mind you can't comprehend but, trust me, these things don't matter.

     

    Ok let me spell this out for you because you know what its happening in these F2P (P2W) games.  Jim and James play lets say Runes of Magic.  Jim is single has no family and lives an apartment, has $1000+ a month free for whatever he wants.  James has 3 kids, a wife, 2 car payments, a mortgages maybe $50 to $100 a month for his personal entertainment each moth some months he has to go without because of bills for the kids.  They both want to raid in Runes of Magic however guess what Jim can afford too because it cost $800 a month in potions, buffs and other things needed to raid.  James cannot afford to.  So what because a publisher wants to be greedy these 2 friends should not be able to play and enjoy the content together?  Yes it’s a game, a game that 2 friends play together to chit chat and have fun not to see 1 sitting in game doing nothing with the other raids because well 1 can afford too the other cannot.

    So yes Neverwinters F2P system sucks, it’s just as bad as runes of magic.  I already today seen 3 guilds saying if you were not spending at least $200 a month in Zen for needed end game zen items then do not apply.  So yes it does matter because it pits 1 person’s wallet vs another person’s wallet.  End of Story. 

  • Four0SixFour0Six Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Good for you OP. I also boycott all F2P games unless their cash shop is fluff only, like League of Legends. And that one isn't even an MMO.

    considering its a themepark i don't see why it really matters.. aren't you the one who said themeparks are just for a quick fix and you move on? don't see what the payment model would matter in that case.. actually f2p would make more sense to me since you will quit in a couple months(or less) anyway

    I think you nailed it Aero.

    In truth this is how I play F2P. I view it as an open trial, with the caviat that if I want to actually "play" the game I have to pay. As a side note I havent found a F2P title that earned any cash from me. I did however back in the day, spend some money on cosutme packs for CIty Of Heros/Villians, and payed my sub... go figure huh.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Meriik
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    So don't spend any money and continue to enjoy playing, or are you unable to continue enjoying the game because of the presence of a cash shop? 

    Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly.  Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.

    Please explain how it impacts you?

    right now its looking like you are scared by the mere mention of a cash shop.

    This game is NOT pay to win by any streach of the imagination.

    Then question why did I see already 3 guilds in Zone chat telling people if they are not going to spend $200 a month or more on Zen for end game items do not apply?  So its not pay to win?  I see the same kind of thing day 1 in Runes of Magic when my friends asked me to join thats why i left it after about 4 hours of playing. 

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I want it to succeed and to get many new additions. I'm playing for free and the things in the cash shop don't tempt me at all.

    That's the trick to playing ftp for free.. just stop thinking a minor bonus or cosmetic actually matters, because it doesn't. I'd rather get beat a couple times in PvP than lose $200 on a game (not that getting beat in PvP would happen due to cash shop purchases anyway). It's clear to me who would be the real winner all things considered.

    Just wait until you cannot win without spending $200 a week for them bonuses.  Its been posted on here and I have had a few friends who played Runes of Magic.  Some people has spent thousands of dollars a month just to keep up raiding, my friends had to spend $500 a month to keep up raiding in a casual guild.  Games like that are a joke and should be removed from the MMO genera.  

    If I get to a point in agame where that happens, I move to another.

    Whats the problem?

    I think you missed the part where I explain I'm not tempted at all. It might be a state of mind you can't comprehend but, trust me, these things don't matter.

     

    Ok let me spell this out for you because you know what its happening in these F2P (P2W) games.  Jim and James play lets say Runes of Magic.  Jim is single has no family and lives an apartment, has $1000+ a month free for whatever he wants.  James has 3 kids, a wife, 2 car payments, a mortgages maybe $50 to $100 a month for his personal entertainment each moth some months he has to go without because of bills for the kids.  They both want to raid in Runes of Magic however guess what Jim can afford too because it cost $800 a month in potions, buffs and other things needed to raid.  James cannot afford to.  So what because a publisher wants to be greedy these 2 friends should not be able to play and enjoy the content together?  Yes it’s a game, a game that 2 friends play together to chit chat and have fun not to see 1 sitting in game doing nothing with the other raids because well 1 can afford too the other cannot.

    So yes Neverwinters F2P system sucks, it’s just as bad as runes of magic.  I already today seen 3 guilds saying if you were not spending at least $200 a month in Zen for needed end game zen items then do not apply.  So yes it does matter because it pits 1 person’s wallet vs another person’s wallet.  End of Story. 

    I'll spell this out for you:

    If Jim is stupid enough to spend $800 a month on a game he has failed at life and isn't achieving anything.

    As for 'needed endgame items'.. either those guilds are clueless, it was just someone trolling or you're just making it up.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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