Should they remove the race restrictions on factions?

Siveria · April 2013

I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

Livnthedream · April 2013

Eso is not Cu, you do not need to make 50 posts about topics already on the front page.

Also, you are wrong.

Eir_S · April 2013

No I like that there will be no elves in the Daggerfall cov.

.......dirty, stinking elves.

DAS1337 · April 2013

I don't like the restrictions...

And you can't be wrong about an opinion.

Livnthedream · April 2013

Originally posted by DAS1337
And you can't be wrong about an opinion.

That would be true, but he did not offer an opinon.

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/education/reading_genie/Fact-opinion.html

Comaf · April 2013

Originally posted by Siveria
I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

I had to lol a bit at this. You want what is already available all over the place. Like with CU, folks will come to ESO to have something more in depth. While it's cool to have Sith Jedi, for example, or Human Klingons fighting for the Romulan Empire (lol)...or Persian Spartans, I think for the rest of us in mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot, ESO and CU, that we want a bit more value in regards to the importance of race and class distinction.

And, for God's sakes, can't we have 1 or 2 mmorpgs where we get to actually battle it out against folks who are different than we are? So tired of vanilla games where everything is just a big sloppy copy. So again - like I posted to the guy who wanted CU turned into every other mmorpg....I will tell you that you should be happy that there are games like this already.

Age of Conan should be up your alley. Races and classes are just a formality. Religion is just a cosmetic title. You can group whoever with whatever you want. For a more old school flavor, try Vanguard, Saga of Heroes. Human Paladins and Goblin mages can group. No restriction...no lore...and so forth. Just cosmetic - the way you would like it.

Here's a check of reality for you in a fantasy genre that takes race and class seriously: If there was any reality to this title, the chance of your race faction hopping character would be as likely as a Navy Seal joining Osama Bin Ladin and blowing up Americans overseas. Is it possible? Sure, many things are...but the % chance of this happening is slim enough that if ESO was an mmorpg about Seals vs Terrorists...you wouldn't have the option to faction hop...

Just as you wont have the option to faction hop here. It's just a tiny bit of reality in the fantasy game that is so sorely needed in this age of cash shops and who cares class race instanced flag capture video games that call themselves mmoRPGs.

Finally, rethink what R P G means. Role - Playing - Game. I daresay a more grown up mmorpg model follows the RPG concept quite well. We just don't have very many of these.

sapphen · April 2013

Remove the locks!

waynejr2 · April 2013

Originally posted by Siveria
I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

Is this one issue of locking races so bad that you won't purchase the game? If so, then I don't think you have a high interest in this game.

Vladamyre · April 2013

I don't want to be running around with a bunch of high elves with my nord, I want to be killing them.

AlBQuirky · April 2013

Won't happen, Their whole game is based around this mechanic. Beta is in play. They hope to release this year yet (maybe early next year?). Won't happen. Please stop trying and accept it.

NobleNerd · April 2013

Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Siveria
I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

Is this one issue of locking races so bad that you won't purchase the game? If so, then I don't think you have a high interest in this game.

Let's see... so you mean WoW had a chance of not selling their game because people might not like the racial restrictions on the factions? People might want to be Taurens and friends might not like the horde races and not play the game? Hmmm.... let's see... Logic seems to fail me... oh wait it is opinion that fails at times.

Distopia · April 2013

Originally posted by Xepo
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Siveria
I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

Is this one issue of locking races so bad that you won't purchase the game? If so, then I don't think you have a high interest in this game.

Let's see... so you mean WoW had a chance of not selling their game because people might not like the racial restrictions on the factions? People might want to be Taurens and friends might not like the horde races and not play the game? Hmmm.... let's see... Logic seems to fail me... oh wait it is opinion that fails at times.

What was the point here?

JayFiveAlive · April 2013

Just cause the game's mechanics don't fit what YOU want, doesn't mean the company should change their whole gameplay mechanic... it's their game, they should make it how they invisioned it and we should buy it and play it if it appeals to us...

If you go car shopping and you like the looks of 2 door car, but prefer only 4 door cars, you don't ask the dealership to stretch the car and make it a 4 door so your friends can fit more comfortably in the back... you look at 4 door model cars if that's what you are into O_o.

mxo_cosa · April 2013

While its not something that's going to keep me from playing the game, it is the one thing that's realy annoying me as a Elder Scrolls fan. In a Elder Scrolls Game a big part for me atleast is to see how the game reacts to me playing diffrent races (I was actualy severly disappointed at the lack of racism when I was playing an altmer in skyrim).

And to people asking why we can't just let this go and go play some other MMORPG. This is the first Elder Scrolls MMORPG being created and probably the last for a while. In a world where being loyal to your customer was important. I think it would be a lot more important for the game to do it's best to cater to the Elder Scrolls Fans. Who have help build up the popularity of the francise, than it is to cater to Dark Age of Camelot fans. If this was Dark Age of Camelot 2. I would not be here telling you how I think its wrong to restrict races.

At the same time I understand the concept of realm pride. And I think racism is an interesting part of Elder Scrolls Games. So if it was up to me you would be able to be any race you want, but to keep the population lore friendly there would be severe penalties to picking a faction that's not "supported" by your racial homeland. I'm thinking stuff like, make it more expensive to repair and buy stuff, slower xp gain and faction advancement. But the option should be there for that hardcore roleplayer who for some reason is a Nord who supports the Aldmeri Dominion.

While a lot of people are screaming about realm pride in this discussion I don't think thats the main reason keeping the developers from adding it. I think quests will respond to your race and faction in diffrent ways and having all races for all factions would simply be to many variables to make content for. Another thing that makes me doubt that it's realm pride theire worried about, is how they will make all racial armors available to all factions. Which I personaly think hurts realm pride a lot more than races, since its basicly getting knowledge from the races your fighting. Also for heavy armor users, armor is usualy all we see.

Now I don't think they will let us pick any race we want. No matter how many of us post about it, but I think its important to share any oppinion just incase the developers see something they want to use, and to give the developers the best possible overview of theire audience.

And to the poster above no but a lot of cars come in both 4 and 2 door versions and I may let the car sales man know that I would have bought that car if it only had more doors. And if theire develpoing a new car and asking for oppinions in what I want in a car then ofcourse I would be more than happy to give them.

EDIT: Edited some spelling errors theres probably a bunch more.

Skooma2 · April 2013

I think what a lot of people do not understand is that these races are not homogenous living together in harmony. There are 10 countries on the continent of Tamriel. Each country has its own race. Thus, faction lock. Otherwise, we ES series fans will descend on Zenimax with Daedric weaponry for violation of established lore.

mxo_cosa · April 2013

Originally posted by Skooma2
I think what a lot of people do not understand is that these races are not homogenous living together in harmony. There are 10 countries on the continent of Tamriel. Each country has its own race. Thus, faction lock. Otherwise, we ES series fans will descend on Zenimax with Daedric weaponry for violation of established lore.

I dont want them to live in harmony but there are diffrent races living in diffrent regions and supporting local goverment for diffrent reasons, and I think this playstyle should be possible. But it should be a lot harder for a Nord to be accepted by the Aldmeri Dominion or The Daggerfall Covenant than it is for him to be accepted in the Ebonheart Pact. I also strongly belive that they need to ensure that most of the population of each faction consists mainly of theire respective races and thus strongly discourages playing anything else with hefty penalties on progression(lorewise that would be racism).

Distopia · April 2013

Originally posted by mxo_cosa
While its not something that's going to keep me from playing the game, it is the one thing that's realy annoying me as a Elder Scrolls fan. In a Elder Scrolls Game a big part for me atleast is to see how the game reacts to me playing diffrent races (I was actualy severly disappointed at the lack of racism when I was playing an altmer in skyrim).

And to people asking why we can't just let this go and go play some other MMORPG. This is the first Elder Scrolls MMORPG being created and probably the last for a while. In a world where being loyal to your customer was important. I think it would be a lot more important for the game to do it's best to cater to the Elder Scrolls Fans. Who have help build up the popularity of the francise, than it is to cater to Dark Age of Camelot fans. If this was Dark Age of Camelot 2. I would not be here telling you how I think its wrong to restrict races.

At the same time I understand the concept of realm pride. And I think racism is an interesting part of Elder Scrolls Games. So if it was up to me you would be able to be any race you want, but to keep the population lore friendly there would be severe penalties to picking a faction that's not "supported" by your racial homeland. I'm thinking stuff like, make it more expensive to repair and buy stuff, slower xp gain and faction advancement. But the option should be there for that hardcore roleplayer who for some reason is a Nord who supports the Aldmeri Dominion.

While a lot of people are screaming about realm pride in this discussion I don't think thats the main reason keeping the developers from adding it. I think quests will respond to your race and faction in diffrent ways and having all races for all factions would simply be to many variables to make content for. Another thing that makes me doubt that it's realm pride theire worried about, is how they will make all racial armors available to all factions. Which I personaly think hurts realm pride a lot more than races, since its basicly getting knowledge from the races your fighting. Also for heavy armor users, armor is usualy all we see.

Now I don't think they will let us pick any race we want. No matter how many of us post about it, but I think its important to share any oppinion just incase the developers see something they want to use, and to give the developers the best possible overview of theire audience.

And to the poster above no but a lot of cars come in both 4 and 2 door versions and I may let the car sales man know that I would have bought that car if it only had more doors. And if theire develpoing a new car and asking for oppinions in what I want in a car then ofcourse I would be more than happy to give them.

EDIT: Edited some spelling errors theres probably a bunch more.

I think what's most impotant to consider here is that the main reason they're not adding what so many wish they would is they have no time to do so at this point. I think this type of thing is also why they waited so long to even acknowledge the fact that this game existed. They basically designed the whole of this game behind lock and key, by the time they did announce it, it was far too late to make changes to the core design.

Sovrath · April 2013

Originally posted by Comaf

Here's a check of reality for you in a fantasy genre that takes race and class seriously: If there was any reality to this title, the chance of your race faction hopping character would be as likely as a Navy Seal joining Osama Bin Ladin and blowing up Americans overseas. Is it possible? Sure, many things are...but the % chance of this happening is slim enough that if ESO was an mmorpg about Seals vs Terrorists...you wouldn't have the option to faction hop...

Finally, rethink what R P G means. Role - Playing - Game. I daresay a more grown up mmorpg model follows the RPG concept quite well. We just don't have very many of these.

in your first point I would say that the issue is not that races would stay to their own side in a race war but that they decided to make it a race war in the first place.

as far as the second point "oh please" I dont' put any credence in your point that "this is the way a grown up rpg is".

mxo_cosa · April 2013

Originally posted by Distopia
I think what's most impotant to consider here is that the main reason they're not adding what so many wish they would is they have no time to do so at this point. I think this type of thing is also why they waited so long to even acknowledge the fact that this game existed. They basically designed the whole of this game behind lock and key, by the time they did announce it, it was far too late to make changes to the core design.

I suspect the same, but neither of us know that. And because of that I think its more important for people to voice theire oppinion than it is to keep shut. So that developers have a chance to respond to theire potential players wishes. In the end its the developers that have the final word, but as long as the game is in development, people should express theire wishes so that the developers can do theire best to create a great game for whatever audience theire targeting.

EDIT:Added Quote I'm new here ok XD

TheLizardbones · April 2013

Each race gives a bonus to something, and the factions are balanced around the idea of those bonuses. So they could remove the race restrictions, but they'd have to remove the bonuses. Which would lesson the impact of picking a race. It would become more of a visual thing than a functional thing.

I think they have the right goals in giving players choice that can make a functional difference in the game. I'm not sure if character races was the right place to do it, but I can't argue with their intentions.

VincentFoxy · April 2013

I understand the need for less restrictions in a game like this, but i think you should be less focused on the faction lock and just mainly think about the world lock. I find that the faction lock should mostly control the PvP (cyrodiil), starting area, and story line. not the exploration and social aspect though. In PvE i think i, as an Argonian, should be able to go over to the Daggerfall Covenent and be able to play with and help a friend who just so happens to want to play as a Breton. if they want to confine and "balance" PvP.. they should just confine and "balance" PvP. though i know the pvp wont be very balanced anyway, because most, if not everyone will choose a race that they like from the elder scrolls games, and most of the popular choices consists of Nords, Argonians, and maybe some of the elves. then they all get magically placed into a faction and out of the 3 factions, the ebonheart pack becomes the most popular choice and then oh, what do you get? imbalance!

Though i could really give a crap about PvP.

Also they should've formed the lore around the game and mechanics, not the game and mechanics around the lore. Someone doesnt write the news about something and then wait for it to happen. They could've put together game mechanics that werent so uneededly restrictive. It was also a bad idea on Zenimax's part for two reason that iv found from reading through threads like these. One, they probably shouldn't have gone with a game model (DAoC) that failed them before as if that's the only thing that runs through their minds. Secondly they really, really shouldn't have kept the entire thing a secret until they decide to just blow every TES fan's mind just alittle while before beta and not say hardly a thing about what will be in the game until recently as if they didnt even want the community to have much of a say about any of the game's contents before launch and then slap most of them in the face with a DAoC'esq game with a TES surface, but that's just what iv gathered from all the threads around mmorpg. and i know restrictions "can" be a good thing, but not all are and shouldn't be compared to other games with similar restrictions because all games arent made completely alike (aside from most korean mmorpgs, lol). Which should be the point of different games, being... well, different, just because one game does well a certain way doesnt mean another should.

This is all just an opinion of what i think about it. dont bash on it, because im probably not going to respond to it. I dont feel like getting mixed up in the senseless debate.

Distopia · April 2013

Originally posted by mxo_cosa

Originally posted by Distopia

I think what's most impotant to consider here is that the main reason they're not adding what so many wish they would is they have no time to do so at this point. I think this type of thing is also why they waited so long to even acknowledge the fact that this game existed. They basically designed the whole of this game behind lock and key, by the time they did announce it, it was far too late to make changes to the core design.

I suspect the same, but neither of us know that. And because of that I think its more important for people to voice theire oppinion than it is to keep shut. So that developers have a chance to respond to theire potential players wishes. In the end its the developers that have the final word, but as long as the game is in development, people should express theire wishes so that the developers can do theire best to create a great game for whatever audience theire targeting.

EDIT:Added Quote I'm new here ok XD

I was never implying that people shouldn't speak their mind, that's always important, as long as no one is trying to force their opinion down my throat I have no problem with it.

Iselin · April 2013

Originally posted by mxo_cosa
Originally posted by Skooma2
I think what a lot of people do not understand is that these races are not homogenous living together in harmony. There are 10 countries on the continent of Tamriel. Each country has its own race. Thus, faction lock. Otherwise, we ES series fans will descend on Zenimax with Daedric weaponry for violation of established lore.

I dont want them to live in harmony but there are diffrent races living in diffrent regions and supporting local goverment for diffrent reasons, and I think this playstyle should be possible. But it should be a lot harder for a Nord to be accepted by the Aldmeri Dominion or The Daggerfall Covenant than it is for him to be accepted in the Ebonheart Pact. I also strongly belive that they need to ensure that most of the population of each faction consists mainly of theire respective races and thus strongly discourages playing anything else with hefty penalties on progression(lorewise that would be racism).

So you do understand the problem. Removing the restrictions and having players do as they wish could...no scratch that, WOULD result in 33% of Orcs in each one of the 3 Aliiances. Having a small number of renegades and refugees would actually be more credible within the context of the background story... but not an even split.

I jokingly suggested a couple of weeks back that restricting the ability to join the "wrong" alliance to tiny numbers by selling the ability to cross to another faction in the cash shop in limited quantites might be a way to do it ... I'm sure it would be a popular option-- even more so with their accountants

A much easier way to create a suitable sprinkling of contrarian Orcs would be to do it through renegade NPCs. I can almost guarantee that this will be the case: NPCs will not be alliance locked but the vast majority of each race will be found where you would expect to find them in their own region.

Much more important than the vastly over-rated freedom of character creation choice is having a consistent story. I'm not going to debate whether the 3-sided alliance war story is great or poor. But it is the story they chose to tell as the basis for this MMO in this period in the history of Tamriel. If you don't make sure that the entirety of this MMO reflects that basic plot, well then you're jumping the shark a lot earlier than usual. Might as well introduce crafted Harley Davidsons at the same time.

Grunch · April 2013

Originally posted by Siveria
I still think they need to remove the race restrictions on the factions, so you can be any race you want, and join any faction you want kinda like skyrim, sure the other races are kinda shunned a bit but you can still get in if you prove yourself, if they don't the game is not going to sell as well as they hoped because there are alot of people that dislike the racial groupings, There will be situations where some peoples friends will wanna be one race but some others might not like that race, and in turn if they wanna be with friends they will have to play a race they dislike. In a ES game I personally go more for looks on my char, than stats, so I am usually playing a female human, or a female elf if they don't look like mutants. Especally in a game like a mmo where your going to possibly be playing the same char for a long time.

No. Your opinion is WRONG.

In my opinion, opinions can be wrong.

Grunch · April 2013

Originally posted by VincentFoxy
I understand the need for less restrictions in a game like this, but i think you should be less focused on the faction lock and just mainly think about the world lock. I find that the faction lock should mostly control the PvP (cyrodiil), starting area, and story line. not the exploration and social aspect though. In PvE i think i, as an Argonian, should be able to go over to the Daggerfall Covenent and be able to play with and help a friend who just so happens to want to play as a Breton. if they want to confine and "balance" PvP.. they should just confine and "balance" PvP. though i know the pvp wont be very balanced anyway, because most, if not everyone will choose a race that they like from the elder scrolls games, and most of the popular choices consists of Nords, Argonians, and maybe some of the elves. then they all get magically placed into a faction and out of the 3 factions, the ebonheart pack becomes the most popular choice and then oh, what do you get? imbalance!

Though i could really give a crap about PvP.

Also they should've formed the lore around the game and mechanics, not the game and mechanics around the lore. Someone doesnt write the news about something and then wait for it to happen. They could've put together game mechanics that werent so uneededly restrictive. It was also a bad idea on Zenimax's part for two reason that iv found from reading through threads like these. One, they probably shouldn't have gone with a game model (DAoC) that failed them before as if that's the only thing that runs through their minds. Secondly they really, really shouldn't have kept the entire thing a secret until they decide to just blow every TES fan's mind just alittle while before beta and not say hardly a thing about what will be in the game until recently as if they didnt even want the community to have much of a say about any of the game's contents before launch and then slap most of them in the face with a DAoC'esq game with a TES surface, but that's just what iv gathered from all the threads around mmorpg. and i know restrictions "can" be a good thing, but not all are and shouldn't be compared to other games with similar restrictions because all games arent made completely alike (aside from most korean mmorpgs, lol). Which should be the point of different games, being... well, different, just because one game does well a certain way doesnt mean another should.

This is all just an opinion of what i think about it. dont bash on it, because im probably not going to respond to it. I dont feel like getting mixed up in the senseless debate.

Your idea is sucky. There will be no realm pride like DAoC had if they allowed hand holding in PVE zones. DAoC was a great game and a good model to base an mmo after. The only thing Mythic lacked (back then before EA bought them) was the Blizzard size marketing dept and budget.

mxo_cosa · April 2013

Originally posted by Iselin
So you do understand the problem. Removing the restrictions and having players do as they wish could...no scratch that, WOULD result in 33% of Orcs in each one of the 3 Aliiances. Having a small number of renegades and refugees would actually be more credible within the context of the background story... but not an even split. I jokingly suggested a couple of weeks back that restricting the ability to join the "wrong" alliance to tiny numbers by selling the ability to cross to another faction in the cash shop in limited quantites might be a way to do it ... I'm sure it would be a popular option-- even more so with their accountants A much easier way to create a suitable sprinkling of contrarian Orcs would be to do it through renegade NPCs. I can almost guarantee that this will be the case: NPCs will not be alliance locked but the vast majority of each race will be found where you would expect to find them in their own region. Much more important than the vastly over-rated freedom of character creation choice is having a consistent story. I'm not going to debate whether the 3-sided alliance war story is great or poor. But it is the story they chose to tell as the basis for this MMO in this period in the history of Tamriel. If you don't make sure that the entirety of this MMO reflects that basic plot, well then you're jumping the shark a lot earlier than usual. Might as well introduce crafted Harley Davidsons at the same time.

This is why I was suggesting heavy penalties on progression for picking a race thats not of that faction. I personaly would just cut everything in half, half the septims, half the xp and so on. But Zenimax Online probably got good math people to find the perfect balance if they were to go with such a system.

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Should they remove the race restrictions on factions?

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