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The hate on grinding?

nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17

Honestly, isn't that what mmorpgs are about? Working hard to level up, finding guild members to do raids and proceeding to late game content and events?

Every game I play now, there's so much emphasis on soloing. . . and when they do try to encourage partying its a boring repetitive grind (WoW with lategame content of . . more dungeons). 

FF11 was probably the strangest game I played but it's still stuck to me for some reason, maybe it's because the players had to work together to actually level up? But when you are a low level and the rest of the population is at level cap, things start to suck when you can't find a party. And everyone knows how horrible the exp rate for FF11 was! XD

It was interesting though, how one character could switch classes and level up over again (then you have a player helping noobs and new player base)

 

Gw2 removed the grinding. . interesting game but I didn't really feel I did much in there regardless of having a level 80 thief. . I think I did two or three dungeons with my guild there <_< was pretty cool when we had to throw rocks at the boss to stun him LOL I mean. . you still grind quests and experience like other games, but there's limited character progression.

The talent system(?) was pretty much balancing between condition or regular damage or tanking etc depending on your class, nothing interesting to experiment with, especially in PvP. . and the annoying killing blow lol

V--- for those who don't like massive posts --V

So what I'm getting at here is that, most new games seem to encourage too much soloing, yet they don't set up the ground rules of the game of whether players should be helping each other or not. (exp rates benefitting soloers etc, especially solo quests, they are everywhere)

One could say exp rates make or break a game, but most of the fun and memorable games were the ones with a low exp rate and a low to medium level cap. Even noobs can help is what I'm saying! Not by making a new toon and helping the next day, but maybe after a month of play they can engage with other players.

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Games I've experienced . . Maplestory - solo to 110, party quests suck, leech exp at 110+ in partys at crocks... boring, yet I still play it -.- lol i was really looking forward to grinding slow and partying for the PQ's <_<

WoW - solo to 20, queue for dungeons, kill shit done. and lose all the people you talked with because they were in another server. Got lazy to level, hit level cap oh. . I have to buy an expansion pack.. PVP - grind grind grind get more gear, get one shotted by players with it! Arena (who's idea was to make a rating system based on gear ?)

RF online (I think this is the third company that's trying to run it) - solo farm to level 30 (takes literally . . 1 week? used to take like two months) leech off of A.B's, there's a choice of going to the white mountain and getting ganked too. 40+ go to elan was it? same thing

GW2 - solo, make money and buy dungeon drops people sell (market is insanely cheap.)

I keep thinking to myself that players seem to want everything starting on day 1. . there's FPS and other Arcade games out there to play, they get bored and move on to mmorpgs(the sacred grounds for bored people) and made it all dumbed down through excessive whining, as they did RTS games XD

I hate developers that lose track of their goal, or just simply rip off of some asian game and use an old outdated version for cash shop profit lol... it's probably why so many like WoW still <.< atleast they are original minus the listening to noobs thing lol

 

Comments

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,493
    Originally posted by nhiscool

    Honestly, isn't that what mmorpgs are about?

     

    NO.

    That is what story designers (or whatever the name that developer who do story progresision) that dont want to be creative anymore make you believe then take the easy way out and add boring lifeless chores they call ! quests. That worked wonders when WoW made it a standard questing system. That was almost a decade ago. It doesnt work anymore if you want to have a new (innovative) mmo. If the game is level based and / or story driven the questing is important to progress your character and tell the story of the game. If that part of the game is boring, dont expect the game in 2013 to have the success WoW had with it 9 years ago. Adding one neat feature like action combat, or great graphics, or other stuff dont make a game any good if the time you will spend developing your character through the game will be worse than  constipation.





  • nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17

    I guess  you're talking about grinding quests, i was more for the random pve monster killing :P

    ff11 you only needed some quests for progression, but we could just say quests that are more of a major goal are the best, kind of like how RF online had the chip wars :D

    it's mostly the choice of the player, some that ran the quests already just grind elite mobs with a party for better exps(dungeon grinding) which is a way to "hide" grinding, similar to how everyone says gw2 is "revolutionary" which it really isnt, they just script quests to pop up as you get near an object(NPC like WoW) except you dont need to hit the accept button.

     

    If we talk about popular games, EVE online is somewhat popular, they kind of just throw you out there but there's still some goals and there are ways around it but there's still grinding

     

    my topic was mostly about grinding and exp rates, WoW is much easiar than it was before and now it seems DULL

    easy isn't fun :P but then again dying alot isn't, yet once you get the ropes of a certain "tough" game you start to get hooked :D

     

     

    ^^^

    which is why League of legends is popular, yet people say its a noob game compared to dota 2 yet LoL > dota 2

    but both have their own learning gaps and experience rates people like :D

  • CranktrainCranktrain Member Posts: 25

    I remember when the word 'grind' wasn't complementary. When you're grinding, you're literally doing the same thing over and over and over again, till numbers increase.

    When you say "isn't that what MMO's are about?" I can see where you're coming from, many MMO's (I'd say most) are all about the grind. But I'd argue it's bad game design. MMO's in the last decade have been largely subscription based, and so it's in the publisher's interest to spread people's time out over the content, as opposed to providing a properly satisfying gameplay experience.

    Some people like grinding, and that's okay! It's just something I, personally, have got quite tired of.

    image

  • nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17

    I don't get what you're trying to say? to  rojo69

     

    I'm saying games that are hard, and take time to understand are better than the typical mmorpgs out there. 

    In mmorpgs, exp rate and taking a long time to hit level cap was the best model in my oppinion because if everything was easy we would all be doing the final storymode quest with some guy that started the game two days ago and then everyone quits.

     

    It's strange you are saying stuff about inovation of mmorpgs yet you don't have any ideas yourself?

     

  • nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17

    RPG's are all about numbers though :) to- cranktrain

    The development is like this, you are level 30 and there's a level 35 boss

    either get better gear, or level up higher to beat it :D or get a party, many different ways to beat it.

    customization is always good, mixing party members from that mage to a warrior or getting more dps / defenses

     

     

    I guess if we all wanted a grind game, that wasn't repetitive, we would need less trash mobs and more bosses? Kind of like a monster hunter approach where you're this tiny character hunting down epic monsters and such for rare drops XD

    but than it really isn't a mmorpg

    mmo's are about finding people to play with to do all of these interesting quests and dungeons and WoW kind of lost their touch when it came to making new dungeons XD but we all have to agree that the videos that come from blizzard are awesome when you get to them. yet diablo 3 sucks XD

     

     

     

     

    People are trying to encorporate FPS and instant joy when it comes to mmorpgs, when its mostly a community based game where we all were supposed to work for one goal (FACTION) and beating the evil lol

    instead of that we see people wanting this strange form of late game content and all their abilities learned in one day and level capped the next to fight some epic dragon (GW2) 

    I guess the best mmorpgs know how to manage the sheep of a player base they have.. but if you listen to noobs, than theres a problem XD which is why we see exp rates going off the charts. .

    RF online, WoW, ff11 were all hard games to play, and when they got easiar people started hating them and moving on to the next "new thing" 

     

  • BananaramaaBananaramaa Member Posts: 34

    Yeah, I love so called "grind". Was just cerebral evening fun with company in FF11. There were elements to it that simply saying "Oh it's just killing mob after mob" doesn't do justice. The open world dungeons were incredibly neat places to roam and kill in.

    A new area actually meant something, it was a whole new place to explore, often with a ton of quests not related to leveling but unlocking other content. Not something to pass by in a day. The world slowly unfolded before you like that and each new area really was a surprise.

    Roll on to GW2 and every area just feels the same. Quick finish and pass by to next area, rinse and repeat till level 80.

  • FishuFishu Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by Bananaramaa

    Roll on to GW2 and every area just feels the same. Quick finish and pass by to next area, rinse and repeat till level 80.

    I agree. When I was playing and leveling my toon in GW2 . I actually was more focused on the map and the dot of my character and not the environment itself. Just focusing of where my character was going and not what I was doing. My character dot on the  world map was my environment 50 % of the time.

    Grinding has it's flaw of course, but it's forced people to group together and work together. Not in some ''public group'' , but in private group where you had to talk to other human being. That how camaraderie started and guild were formed. In today mmorpg, I just don't care. Everyone want to do their own little thing and move on to the next zone the fastest possible so I do the same and get bored very quickly. GW2 world was emptier than DAOC. Since I did not care about it, I just cared about the experience I gained in it.

    Older mmorpg like daoc and UO had a great community because players felt they were being part of it New MMORPG are all ''MEMEME'' and ''NOWNOWNOW''. It''s reflect well the hyper-individualist culture of North America. Not caring about the people, but where you're heading.

    Thing with  new mmorpg is .. You're so spammed with quest that you don't care anymore. They should do something more like a chainable quest with other area to explore rather than exclamation point everywhere making you lose interest in the environment and others player.

  • nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17

    finally some people that know how good mmorpgs are/were :)

    I'm trying to not sound dumb by posting only a few sentances but I've got nothing to say really X_X 

     

    But. . since we're talking about ff11, I miss rolanberry fields, you should all youtube that soundtrack! Weird zone of all zones to pick from lol <_<

     

    As much as people say how awesome GW2 is, I honestly only play it cause of how hot the female avatars are, but theres better sources of that on the net @[email protected] other than that. . I have a youtube video of me diving lol its funny

     

  • nhiscoolnhiscool Member Posts: 17
    Originally posted by Fishu
    Originally posted by Bananaramaa

    Roll on to GW2 and every area just feels the same. Quick finish and pass by to next area, rinse and repeat till level 80.

     

    Thing with  new mmorpg is .. You're so spammed with quest that you don't care anymore. They should do something more like a chainable quest with other area to explore rather than exclamation point everywhere making you lose interest in the environment and others player.

    I guess we all miss the quests. . . that were required for class advancements, skills and unique gear for your class

    important quests > exp money quests lol, honesty who gives a shit about the farmer's crops getting destroyed by man eating wasps XD

  • ozymannozymann Member Posts: 2
    I don't understand why people hate grinding so much; maybe they think it can prove how pro they are.  Grinding in a enjoyable game keeps me busy and makes me feel there are so many things to do in endgame.  However, I haven't logged in GW2 since I hit 80.
  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,036
    Originally posted by nhiscool

    I guess  you're talking about grinding quests, i was more for the random pve monster killing :P

     

    Me too. Quests pretty much made Quest rewards the objective and the rest became grind.

    Kill 10 mobs. 20 minutes away. They will all drop junk and you will waste 40 minutes in transit, the quest mobs will be surrounded by "trash" mobs and it will take an hr to do minimum.

    Or I could log in, head to a spot and just clobber Oh I dunno? 10 mobs? Get some decent loot or crafting components, the same exper I would have got with said quest and I wouldn't feel like I got roped in to something.

     

    I don't hate repeatable content. I hate misleading content that ends up being a grind in disguise.

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