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Neverwinter Bombs in Beta
Ragnarockk
Member Posts: 8
This was the second weekend of beta testing and while technically they were giving out beta keys to "select" people and people who "bought" their content packages (the content packages can't be used until launch), this is an open beta because on Twitter and at conventions, beta keys were dropping like candy from pinyatas, especially duing the week leading up to this weekend. Now it's about to close down. And I'm sharing my experiences here because I'm about to pan it and they've been guilty of thread moving and deleting if they feel it is "too negative." That's a problem in itself. They want feedback, but only if it's good.
I wanted to like it, I really did, I played it every day of the weekend for hours. Logged several bugs, posted several howto's on their forums, because howto's are simply not to be found unless fans make 'em, forcing everyone to reinvent the wheel and everyone to endure endless repeat questions on Zone chat. But here were several showstoppers for me:
1. When I realized there is no way to make an organized group or raid in the game. Because of the chaotic reticule nature of the TPS (third person shooter) interface, you can't focus on your tank, can't even lock focus on anything unless you hold down CTRL all the time, so things like Target of Target are impossible, and when I brought that up, it was very nearly ignored. People simply said "that's the challenge of the interface." O.o Yeah, how does that work for heals? Basically in every group I was in, we fought large groups in tight chaotic groupings, with the dps going after the snipers and ranged fighters. Which means the big aoes of the control wizard often didn't get recharged bc they weren't doing enough damage to one person as they spent time freezing people so they didn't get massacred while fighting a lone fight on the fringes. Meanwhile the aoe of the bad guys got unleashed on the party about 6 or 7 times. I'm just glad it was weak.
2. There is no way to zone out of a map at will. Ok, if you're in a combat, you might not always have the option anyway. but what if you get stuck somewhere in a badly designed Foundry mission? Foundry misions are player designed dungeons. What if you discover a bug that strands you somewhere? And you can't say "zone me home" or "let me start over" or "abandon this" or whatever? Truth be told, it's a bug that if you say abandon, then change your mind and say cancel, it strands you in the zone with no way to zone out via Abandon anymore. And a bug is a bug. But anyway, I just think that because the Foundry is player created, that's why there should be an abort mission button all the time. it shouldn't be up to the player to "know better not to do that." There's a word for doing it right: robust. Currently not robust.
3. if you just quest, you are bored to death. There is one questline, very linear, no side quests almost ever. So my advice is, next beta weekend, if you go: a. grind the decrepit skeletons for level 2 loot until you're decently geared, and level 3, that way you'll be level 5 faster, and you'll have decent gear which is better than being level 5 and gearless farther along. and b. go to blacklake as soon as you get to the city. You can survive it at level 5 or 6, the gear that drops won't do you any good yet, though. So get to level 7, pray for astral diamonds and buy some gear from the auction, or go back to do some earlier quests. You'll be surprised how easy they are, but that's not the point, you want gear. The point of black lake is multiple quests, job board, harper, lots more to do. A lack of content is very very obvious. It's like the devs have decided to let the community write the foundry quests. Except that the foundry quests can't have been written by the fans now can they?
4 They are determined to write a "shoot em up" type of game, not a fantasy game. Chat is filled with players who are unhappy and wishing they had Neverwinter in the hands of people who actually appreciated a/ fantasy and b/ D&D and c/ a more familiar point and click interface whre you can tab-target, and every once in a while you get really suspicious statements by people saying "oh this is the best game I've ever played." Really? Totally unqualified statements like that make me go hmmm... Just one example there is a "Hall of Justice" where this guy talks like any minute I'm going to see some superheroes step out and sit down around a big oval table. It would be hillarious if it wasn't such a bad design fit.
I played a guardian and a control wizard, and tried the rogue but hated that, it didn't last long. It seems the control wizard actually takes less damage than the guard for some odd reason, maybe she kills faster, or she repels more often, or she slows them down. Whatever, she can protect herself better than the tank.
On the plus side, PW seems very responsive to what is happening and has agreed that the silly hand gesture of the control wizard needs to be changed, and also was on top of a Foundry instance that had lots of people stuck in it (see item 2) for HOURS. They do seem to be responsive and on top of things. But their mandates are sometimes at cross purposes. There was a passel of people who coudln't log in, and when they complained on the forums, the moderators deleted their stuff and moved their threads and things (which is in the EULA of hte forum, which is why i say cross purposes), but when the person started a new thread again, someone from PW replied that they wanted the name of the moderators who did that bc it was an accounts issue and they shouldn't have been treated like that. So there is oversight, responsiveness and justice on the plus side of the ledger.
I don't like the game, but the game company's good. I don't even mind their keeping my money and I may even try the game after launch, way way after... once the bugs are fixed to see how it turned out. but I think I'm done testing. Good luck to them from the standpoint of making a game, and being businesspeople, but this is in no way what I envisioned for Neverwinter, and it saddens me. I still don't have a Neverwinter game I like since the first. /shrug
Comments
I agree with the mojority of this thread.
This is the most linear mmo I have ever played. Remembering the game is still in beta, I am hoping that at release there is more content also.
I played a cleric and a gaurdian warrior type. I enjoyed them both, but found the quests so similar and boring. Levelling seemed easy enough at least to level 20.
I really hope for open PvP servers as the game needs it. Without PvP this game will lose a good chunk of players as, in it's current form, it is almost the standard fare of crappy mmo wwe see a lot of these days.
Interesting post, thanks for posting. Point 1 and 4 is the same reason though, you just formulated it differently.
Point 2 is definetely a bug, and should be fixed. Getting stuck is never acceptable.
Point 3 about lacking content is understandable, this is a beta, right?
I wasn't going to play this game, but after reading this, I might give it a try! Especially the part you said about tab-targeting, which I've always hated. It's way too noob-friendly. Perhaps neverwinter might offer a more challenging solution. I'm sick and tired of auto-aim targeting MMO's.
This game sounds cool, and I haven't even read up on it. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.
I would not say it bombed at all , as many of the zones were full of people. There are a few classes missing still a ramnger class and the fighter they are going to show next time. My buddies got to 40 and I got to 30 and it was nice but, yes bland quest that are boring and the fatc that praying was borked and you could pray up to 6 times and hour due to a reset bug. and ok beta but not the best and not the worst
point 2. we had this issue, just go back to the start and exit from there was the answer. You could not get stuck in foundry quests. the entrance was always an exit
I was this '' close to writing this game off. First, I can't stand 4e D&D, and I don't like "action combat". Second, as others have pointed out, the graphics are a little bland. Finally, the combat didn't seem very challenging.
All that changed on this, my second beta weekend. If someone is comparing this game to MMO worlds like GW2 and World of Warcraft, then I'm sure it won't stack up.
I think we have yet to see the best this game has to offer. I'm talking about Foundry content that I (and others) create for a specific group of players. I haven't had a chance to get my hands on the Foundry yet, but if the dungeons and skirmishes I was in this weekend were created with the Foundry; I see A LOT of potential here.
If you don't like noob friendly games, then stay far away from NWO - it may not be tab target style gameplay, but it's like playing Act 1 normal D3. You click it, it dies. Even on the higher levels, I've seen some people talk about mobs being a bit harder, my only question is "has this person equipped new gear within the last 5-10 levels?"
This ''beta'' excuse is just less and less funny .. Unless this beta last for another year and they change major portion of this game this excuse is nothing else but crap
Oh wait .. that wont happen 
I am glad that Neverwinter found its fans/players and I hope it will remain them for years. For me, its just another f2p mmorpg and dont play f2p mmorpgs.
TBH I am not interested in foundry at all, its just smart and lazy thing added by developers so they dont have to create new content so often by themself, but I dont see this foundry content to be any differnet that the rest of the game, its the same to me, just slightly changed instance ..
Thankfully chat was filled with people loving the game.
As for it being linear...the foundry makes this game the most open themepark ever made with content that will be flowing faster than any game ever made, I would refute the rest of your post but much like the linear comment, it would be too easy.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Really?
Hi there, Ragnarockk!
I just wanna chip in my $0.02 and whilst I thank you for highlighting some of the postives of this game, I wanna address some of your negatives, sorry for the paraphrasing.
Because they are some of the same negatives I'm helping address all over these forums it seems... Which means either people arn't reading others posts about Neverwinter on these forums, or arn't reading my responses to them!
1. The point of this interface is to require some element of skill in the combat. You can't tab target because in doing so, it kind of mitigates your responsibility to be looking at what's going on and actually actively taking a part in it. You mentioned that in your group, it was a bit chaotic? Well, in my opinion you have had a bad group! I've played both beta weekends, clearing the blacklake skirmish, as well as the tower district orc skirmish in both, and running the Cloak Tower in both and never have I had any experience where the group had trouble in doing their roles effectively. Now admittedly, I've played a Guardian both runs, but my close friend played a Cleric to 30 last weekend with me, and this weekend playing the Arcane (Meh, Control) Wiz said he's never seen or had any issues with healing or the like either.
2. Yes, there is. You type /killme and release your spirit to the zones starting campfire. Thus allowing you to leave. Neverwinter doesn't have any death penalties for this as far as I'm aware, so that is that.
3. Devs has stated that side quests and crafting and other such things will be added either at launch, or soon after. We're meant to be beta testing bugs, not playing through the entire content just for our sake of enjoyment.
4.
Cryptic and WotC have actually worked hand in hand with this game to ensure that it's lore, as well as the details of characters, skills etc, are in-fact very close if not identical to what you'd find in 4ed D&D, so that argument is false. A) I don't see how this setting is not fantasy. If you can point out a single article in game that would be of another setting, modern reality, sci-fi, horror, etc, then please do. If you cannot, then yes, this game is in fact fantasy based. C) Addressed in point 1. I believe.
Yea man, by having everything instanced with just one rout to go, forward and not open world or maps at all.. it makes the game most open ever ... ups, i mean closed
A lot of people will play nw for few days, weeks but then they return to wow, rift, eq, tera, etc. most of them. Thats how i see it.
For me it is nothing else but co-op dungeon crawler game. Not mmorpg, because mmorpg should have open living world.
It's promo beta, which means apart from adding the missing content and fixing some tooltips and maybe some spreadsheet values not much will change for release. They won't revamp any major features and what you see is pretty much what you will get with some spit and polish on top.
Is it terrible? Nah. Seen much worse. Just pick any random licensed koren MMO that's clone of a clone of a clone. Compared to those NW is high quality production :P
Is it good enough? Nope. It feels lacking at pretty much everything it tries to do. Trying to target heal a halfling in middle of combat with everyone standing clustered and sillyc ompanions getting in way is next to impossible so... AoE heals are way to go (healed all dungeons and skirmishes up to level 36, most of the time without tank along, just rogues and wizards), they are enough to keep everyone alive along with the seal that heals on hit.
Overworld questing is pretty uninspired except some instanced segments, the engine has potential but question is how much of it will be avalible in Foundry and can we actually makes something more than "kill dudes in room, move to next room, repeat until big dude/loot"
To me it seems that the game is torn between wanting to be MMO and dungeonc rawler and thus achieves nothing spectacular on either front.
I sort of agree with you... I don't like the idea that some of the mobs seem to die incredibly easily. I'd like more variety and challange to what I'm fighting. Having just finished Tower Zone again (second time this beta weekend) I can tell you that orcs doesn't seem so Orcy to me. I want to fight the Urak Hai of Neverwinter, not these pansies!
Didn't mean to steal this thread, started a new one.
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I have a question about the Foundry.
Can you have a mob drop loot and XP?
If so, what will stop you from setting up a simple scenario and giving yourself eleventy-billion of them?
Or if not, what would be the point of doing Foundry missions?
The Ryzom Ring would not allow you to drop loot, or get XP. It is too easy to set up exploits. But you COULD give away your own loot, and also your own "cats", which are XP potions.
So the best hope is that you could populate your mobs with loot that you own, by putting them in escrow for the quest. Does the Foundry work like that?
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
I love the game and think its one of the finest MMO's suited for my tastes to come along in many years. Will quickly replace GW2 as my game of choice.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No you cant assign loot and XP to the Foundry. The game itself assigns all those things based on numerous datapoints used such as mob density and placement, average length of time to complete, and other criteria.
So designing 2-3 min dungeons with a couple kobald mobs will get you jack squat, but designing a mission with optimal placement and density with level equivalant mobs (i.e. mobs which are more fierce and use more abilities like Ogres for instance)and takes 15+ mins will yield more XP and loot.
I am sure there will be some semi-exploitable means but those should be patched out in due time liek most any MMO that constantly works on squashing bugs.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
$0.06 now...
Red: See, this is the thing that is irking me about people's grievances with this game. People not realising that the halfling your mentioning, if he needed heals, could easily have popped out of combat long enough for you to target him and get that heal off.
The game doesn't have soft or hard timers for boss fights. There is no rush. If your getting pummelled, drop out of the fight, get healed up, jump back in! A good guardian has two abilities by level 10 that allows him to taunt mobs, not to mention an ability to slow mobs if there is something chasing a squishy, and an ability to 'sort've' intercept.
Most rogues and clerics and Arcane Wiz's I've seen though, don't appear to be all that squishy at all - so unless they wanna stand their ground when a Battlescarred Orc unleashes it's painful AoE, instead of dodging out like it should, then the faults with them. Not the game.
I noticed that bug (as I played Guardian both weekends) and can sort've explain what happened.
In beta weekend one, when you blocked damage, it simply said in big yellow letters, RESISTED! This weekend, they changed that so instead of just saying RESISTED it also showed you resisted 589 points of damage. Something was broken in the code that meant that you did actually take, that 589 points of damage... But not all the time. Fighting Vansi in Cloack Tower, I took damage blocking the first half of her AoE pummel, but the final big swing got blocked. Couldn't help but shrug it off as I got healed through. It's a bug that is being addressed, it didn't ruin my gameplay. I'll live with it.
Also please not, that Guardians who are blocking, can only block attacks coming from in front of them. There is a thing in Neverwinter called Combat Advantage, that is, if your surrounding a mob, or surrounded by mobs, those beside and behind you deal more damage. You can only block whats in front of you (In about a 90 degree arc or so) without taking damage, any mob beside you still hits you.
$0.08