MMORPG.com and other similar forums, yes. The people who enjoy these games don't have time to sit on forums, they're too busy playing the games so the forums end up looking very lopsided.
Yeah, it's pretty clear which camp you hail from.
Me, I'm in the group that still enjoys MMORPG's, just wish they'd start making them like they use to.
Good.
I've made it very clear that I don't play MMOs anymore, although it isn't becase there aren't good games out there, it's because I have to play with a shit-ton of assholes whenever I do play and it's a lot more fun to play SP games when I have a chance (playing Far Cry 3 right now) than to deal with the immature, race-to-endgame idiots that I'd get stuck with otherwise.
I don't want them to make games like they used to, I just wish people would be better than they are today.
I pretty much feel the same way. I'm playing Tera a bit right now but I probably won't keep going because apart from some things I think the game could be doing better, I know that elitism rules in end game, and I don't want to just level a character to level a character. MMO's in general are seeming more pointless to me. Even in GW2, the dungeons are fun and thanks to the "everyone is equal" mindset, every single group I've been in has been pleasant (never happened this often in gear treadmill games), but you're really grinding just to look different.
What I'd really like is a game like Skyrim that scales according to parties of any size, thus you could play with one or two other people if you really wanted to.
When my father was growing up, classic rock was the music young people listened to. His parents listend to something earlier than that and thought classic rock was trash. When I was growing up, alternative rock was what was popular and it's what I still a big fan of. Before I graduated High School rap became popular and still is. Am I supposed to quit loving rock and become a fan of rap to "get with the times?"
But that's really the same thing. Music is popular when it is popular. It's fine if you like a particular style of music, but to expect anyone to keep making that music after it's stopped being popular is a bit absurd. If you want new music, you have to change with the times or you have to accept that your time is past and deal with it.
My point is that people like what they like, and to expect them to like something different because that's what is popular/what the masses like is ignorant.
It doesn't matter what people like, they have to be realistic as to their expectations.
So many people on the forums are just not being realistic.
Maybe because MMORPG's are something they are passionate about and this is their chosen hobby? A hobby that perhaps was changed from something they loved into something they can hardly recognize? Believe it or not, developers read gaming forums to keep tabs of what people are raving for. If everyone just quit the genre and never looked back, the developers won't know what players are looking for in a MMORPG. It's better to provide constructive feedback for developers and discuss new ideas, than to just quit and walk away.
Passion does not excuse fanaticism. Clearly, developers are not listening to what goes on here or they'd be making old-school MMOs. They realize that fanatics really aren't the best people to listen to, they're hard to please in the first place and the first time you do anything they don't like, they rage-quit and go bitch about it.
I agree OP, the term mmo has become a dirty word, a negative way to describe a game. mmo to 95% of the world literally means "like-WoW". if you suggest to these people that an mmo could be twitch, have no npcs or not have level/gear grind they will say "thats not an mmo". dean hall said in a interview a while back that mmo is a naughty word.
I pretty much feel the same way. I'm playing Tera a bit right now but I probably won't keep going because apart from some things I think the game could be doing better, I know that elitism rules in end game, and I don't want to just level a character to level a character. MMO's in general are seeming more pointless to me. Even in GW2, the dungeons are fun and thanks to the "everyone is equal" mindset, every single group I've been in has been pleasant (never happened this often in gear treadmill games), but you're really grinding just to look different.
In my case, everyone is so busy rushing to endgame and I have zero interest in endgame at all. I'd rather explore and take my time and enjoy myself and finding anyone that isn't running as fast as they can down the road is virtually impossible. Modern MMOs tend to appeal to people who are not only willing, but happy to just use people to get their XP and loot, when people stop being useful, they get jettisoned.
What I'd really like is a game like Skyrim that scales according to parties of any size, thus you could play with one or two other people if you really wanted to.
I agree with you, but the old-school fanatics don't want anything to scale, they want everything to be hard so you can't play the game at all unless you have a big party.
I see lots of familiar faces with lots of similar views. I agree with most of them and with the OP.
Went through a phase of being hyped about any new mmorpg for the past 3-5 years, been burned so many times that I just stopped caring anymore. Not going to list all the games I tried and left after a month or two because I won't even remember them all.
So sick and tired of everything the mmorpg market has to offer atm that I'm simply playing single-player games lately. I have more hours in Skyrim and Borderlands 1 and 2 now than most mmorpgs released in the past 2 years. And guess what? I'm having much more fun while doing so. Plain old fun.
I didn't give up on the genre, I still follow some games with interesting ideas and hope that they succeed. I am no longer really hyped about anything but am just passively waiting for a new game to be released, hoping that it brings something new to the table and succeeds while doing so.
Am currently waiting for April 2nd with digital deluxe pre-order of Defiance, hoping that both the game and the show will be worthy. To be honest, my hopes aren't high. Yes, I preordered, because I like what the game "seems to be". Yes, I've been burned enough to know better. Stupid? Maybe. But if I stop hoping for the best and giving new mmorpgs that are finally trying to do something new a chance, all hope is lost...
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world." Hans Margolius
I pretty much feel the same way. I'm playing Tera a bit right now but I probably won't keep going because apart from some things I think the game could be doing better, I know that elitism rules in end game, and I don't want to just level a character to level a character. MMO's in general are seeming more pointless to me. Even in GW2, the dungeons are fun and thanks to the "everyone is equal" mindset, every single group I've been in has been pleasant (never happened this often in gear treadmill games), but you're really grinding just to look different.
In my case, everyone is so busy rushing to endgame and I have zero interest in endgame at all. I'd rather explore and take my time and enjoy myself and finding anyone that isn't running as fast as they can down the road is virtually impossible. Modern MMOs tend to appeal to people who are not only willing, but happy to just use people to get their XP and loot, when people stop being useful, they get jettisoned.
Reminds me of the time I got kicked from a guild in WoW that I'd been tanking ICC for for months because I won too many rolls. lol
People I considered pretty friendly overall turned on me like a pack of wild dogs over some stupid virtual junk.
Old MMOs didn't lose their playerbase. Many of them are still chugging along. Some of them were modified because publishers wanted WoW money and then the player base got pissed and they ended up closing. Like SWG. Some of them like EvE have more players than they did before. Some of them like WURM, ATITD and others are still chugging along at a similar level of activity.
EQ still has a substantial playerbase as well, even if they lost a lot of it, shocker, by trying to become more like WoW. Ultima Online is still running as well.
Its been a long time since they've been relevant. A dev would have to be braindead to release an oldschool MMO right now. Most people have moved on, you've moved on. We know of something better so we don't have to endure all the shitty things they made us to do.
The novelty is long gone.
You sure about that? Runescape released old school servers of the game and they are VERY well received.
OP, it's hard to like anything if all you think of any game is "just another WoW clone"
Try going in positive. Maybe WoW and some of the other themepark type MMOs aren't as bad as you envision. Nobody is going to make the perfect game that you dream about. So either alter your tastes or move on.
Or maybe the OP is right. The genre might be alive and well and have fantastic games for YOU.
But, and I know this is a shocker, PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. They enjoy different things.
Are MMOs dead? That depends on how you define MMOs. I tend to agree with OP, and therefore for me they are dead. I haven't played an MMO in over a year and before that the only one I had played in the previous two years was ATITD.
It might have been more accurate for OP to say:
MMOs no longer represent a style of game I want to play. They are dead to me.
You mean mmorpgs. You can't classify all mmos as the same style of game because there are a ton of different styles within modern mmos. Now if you're talking about mmorpgs then yes, they all tend to gravitate towards the same WoW style.
I pretty much feel the same way. I'm playing Tera a bit right now but I probably won't keep going because apart from some things I think the game could be doing better, I know that elitism rules in end game, and I don't want to just level a character to level a character. MMO's in general are seeming more pointless to me. Even in GW2, the dungeons are fun and thanks to the "everyone is equal" mindset, every single group I've been in has been pleasant (never happened this often in gear treadmill games), but you're really grinding just to look different.
In my case, everyone is so busy rushing to endgame and I have zero interest in endgame at all. I'd rather explore and take my time and enjoy myself and finding anyone that isn't running as fast as they can down the road is virtually impossible. Modern MMOs tend to appeal to people who are not only willing, but happy to just use people to get their XP and loot, when people stop being useful, they get jettisoned.
Reminds me of the time I got kicked from a guild in WoW that I'd been tanking ICC for for months because I won too many rolls. lol
People I considered pretty friendly overall turned on me like a pack of wild dogs over some stupid virtual junk.
Did they turn on your because you won too many rolls or did you fail to pass on rolling for gear that you didn't really need or they felt was better suited to other people in the raid?
That certainly could cause some hard feelings which is why most raid guids went with a DKP system to better balance loot distribution. My main guild in WOW ran a combination of DKP with Loot Council, which pretty much decided who got what loot and when.
The goal was to make sure loot was distributed in a manner most likely to make the guild succeed rather than focus on any one person or group.
I too gave up on modern MMO dungeon running because the endless grind for loot isn't what I really enjoy, but not because I was really angry with the mechanics of the distribution system.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMORPG.com and other similar forums, yes. The people who enjoy these games don't have time to sit on forums, they're too busy playing the games so the forums end up looking very lopsided.
Yeah, it's pretty clear which camp you hail from.
Me, I'm in the group that still enjoys MMORPG's, just wish they'd start making them like they use to.
Good.
I've made it very clear that I don't play MMOs anymore, although it isn't becase there aren't good games out there, it's because I have to play with a shit-ton of assholes whenever I do play and it's a lot more fun to play SP games when I have a chance (playing Far Cry 3 right now) than to deal with the immature, race-to-endgame idiots that I'd get stuck with otherwise.
I don't want them to make games like they used to, I just wish people would be better than they are today.
Maybe, just maybe, the game designs of the early titles brought the best out in people rather than cater to their worst instincts.
I don't think people really are any better or worse than years ago, I think the games reward the wrong sort of behavior and don't reward positive actions appropriately.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When my father was growing up, classic rock was the music young people listened to. His parents listend to something earlier than that and thought classic rock was trash. When I was growing up, alternative rock was what was popular and it's what I still a big fan of. Before I graduated High School rap became popular and still is. Am I supposed to quit loving rock and become a fan of rap to "get with the times?"
But that's really the same thing. Music is popular when it is popular. It's fine if you like a particular style of music, but to expect anyone to keep making that music after it's stopped being popular is a bit absurd. If you want new music, you have to change with the times or you have to accept that your time is past and deal with it.
And yet the Rolling Stones are around the top of the gross earnings charts most years. Just because fashions change, it doesn't mean there is not big money to be made providing new versions of older quality entertainment.
MMORPG.com and other similar forums, yes. The people who enjoy these games don't have time to sit on forums, they're too busy playing the games so the forums end up looking very lopsided.
Yeah, it's pretty clear which camp you hail from.
Me, I'm in the group that still enjoys MMORPG's, just wish they'd start making them like they use to.
Good.
I've made it very clear that I don't play MMOs anymore, although it isn't becase there aren't good games out there, it's because I have to play with a shit-ton of assholes whenever I do play and it's a lot more fun to play SP games when I have a chance (playing Far Cry 3 right now) than to deal with the immature, race-to-endgame idiots that I'd get stuck with otherwise.
I don't want them to make games like they used to, I just wish people would be better than they are today.
Maybe, just maybe, the game designs of the early titles brought the best out in people rather than cater to their worst instincts.
I don't think people really are any better or worse than years ago, I think the games reward the wrong sort of behavior and don't reward positive actions appropriately.
So yes, I do blame the games not the players.
The reason the games changed was because of the players. The old-school games were made specifically for a very small niche audience. There were not enough people in that niche audience to fuel an entire genre of games. In order to appeal to a wider audience, they started to appeal to what the much larger mainsteam audience wanted. The games didn't make the audience, the audience made the games. Had the developers not expanded to a larger audience, the MMO marketplace would have eventually died because there just wasn't enough money in that niche market to keep these companies afloat in the long term.
Maybe because MMORPG's are something they are passionate about and this is their chosen hobby? A hobby that perhaps was changed from something they loved into something they can hardly recognize? Believe it or not, developers read gaming forums to keep tabs of what people are raving for. If everyone just quit the genre and never looked back, the developers won't know what players are looking for in a MMORPG. It's better to provide constructive feedback for developers and discuss new ideas, than to just quit and walk away.
Devs are more likely to notice recent big hits like WOT, than ranting on forums, who want to go back to 10+ year old tried-and-failed ideas.
The real MMORPG's for the most part are dead. MMORPG's have de-evolved to nothing more than mere online RPG's. If you would have asked me 13-15 years ago what this genre would have been, I can tell you this, I would have been dead wrong.
On the other hand what If you would have asked me about RPGs with online features would be like, I would have nailed it.
I thought single player rpgs would evolve to something the current MMORPG genre represents now. I had no idea the mmorpg genre would fall so far. I still have faith to see some real MMORPGS's there was a small market for them once, there still is a small market for them now. A real MMORPG is and will always be a niche game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
The real MMORPG's for the most part are dead. MMORPG's have de-evolved to nothing more than mere online RPG's. If you would have asked me 13-15 years ago what this genre would have been, I can tell you this, I would have been dead wrong.
On the other hand what If you would have asked me about RPGs with online features would be like, I would have nailed it.
I thought single player rpgs would evolve to something the current MMORPG genre represents now. I had no idea the mmorpg genre would fall so far. I still have faith to see some real MMORPGS's there was a small market for them once, there still is a small market for them now. A real MMORPG is and will always be a niche game.
"real MMORPG"? All genre changes and evolve according to customers' preferences.
When you say "devolve", it means "evolve" for many.
Good online RPG with some MMO features are fun games for many. There is nothing wrong with them. In fact, it is not just online RPG ... there is actually many directions MMO-ish games are going. PvP arena games. Online RPGs. World shooters. The future is very interesting.
The real MMORPG's for the most part are dead. MMORPG's have de-evolved to nothing more than mere online RPG's. If you would have asked me 13-15 years ago what this genre would have been, I can tell you this, I would have been dead wrong.
On the other hand what If you would have asked me about RPGs with online features would be like, I would have nailed it.
I thought single player rpgs would evolve to something the current MMORPG genre represents now. I had no idea the mmorpg genre would fall so far. I still have faith to see some real MMORPGS's there was a small market for them once, there still is a small market for them now. A real MMORPG is and will always be a niche game.
"real MMORPG"? All genre changes and evolve according to customers' preferences.
When you say "devolve", it means "evolve" for many.
Good online RPG with some MMO features are fun games for many. There is nothing wrong with them. In fact, it is not just online RPG ... there is actually many directions MMO-ish games are going. PvP arena games. Online RPGs. World shooters. The future is very interesting.
Yeah, they have evolved into games that people jump in and out of, its great! Not like 95+% have been a huge disappointment or anything.
MMORPG.com and other similar forums, yes. The people who enjoy these games don't have time to sit on forums, they're too busy playing the games so the forums end up looking very lopsided.
Yeah, it's pretty clear which camp you hail from.
Me, I'm in the group that still enjoys MMORPG's, just wish they'd start making them like they use to.
Good.
I've made it very clear that I don't play MMOs anymore, although it isn't becase there aren't good games out there, it's because I have to play with a shit-ton of assholes whenever I do play and it's a lot more fun to play SP games when I have a chance (playing Far Cry 3 right now) than to deal with the immature, race-to-endgame idiots that I'd get stuck with otherwise.
I don't want them to make games like they used to, I just wish people would be better than they are today.
Maybe, just maybe, the game designs of the early titles brought the best out in people rather than cater to their worst instincts.
I don't think people really are any better or worse than years ago, I think the games reward the wrong sort of behavior and don't reward positive actions appropriately.
So yes, I do blame the games not the players.
The reason the games changed was because of the players. The old-school games were made specifically for a very small niche audience. There were not enough people in that niche audience to fuel an entire genre of games. In order to appeal to a wider audience, they started to appeal to what the much larger mainsteam audience wanted. The games didn't make the audience, the audience made the games. Had the developers not expanded to a larger audience, the MMO marketplace would have eventually died because there just wasn't enough money in that niche market to keep these companies afloat in the long term.
The market may not have grown to the huge proportion that its at ttoday, but I don't think there's any doubt that the "niche" market could easily have supported a decent number of providers. EVE proves every day that the niche market can be viable and profitable, even if you only appeal to 200K players.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The real MMORPG's for the most part are dead. MMORPG's have de-evolved to nothing more than mere online RPG's. If you would have asked me 13-15 years ago what this genre would have been, I can tell you this, I would have been dead wrong.
On the other hand what If you would have asked me about RPGs with online features would be like, I would have nailed it.
I thought single player rpgs would evolve to something the current MMORPG genre represents now. I had no idea the mmorpg genre would fall so far. I still have faith to see some real MMORPGS's there was a small market for them once, there still is a small market for them now. A real MMORPG is and will always be a niche game.
"real MMORPG"? All genre changes and evolve according to customers' preferences.
When you say "devolve", it means "evolve" for many.
Good online RPG with some MMO features are fun games for many. There is nothing wrong with them. In fact, it is not just online RPG ... there is actually many directions MMO-ish games are going. PvP arena games. Online RPGs. World shooters. The future is very interesting.
MMORPG's have not evolved, the went backwards to fill the need for single player online RPG's which they have done. I expected single player rpg's to evolve to fill this game market not the other way around.
I am not saying those games should not exist, I am just saying MMORPG's went backwards to fill this. These online rpg's that are called MMO's most definatly should exist, there is a massive market for them. There is also a market for niche mmo genre like there always was. Some of the nich MMORPG's are the highest profiting in the MMO genre to date. FFXI was insanely profitable. YOu can not say the same about the ones being released today. They use gimik titles to sell box copies and they are a ghost town 6 months after release. TESO is the next one on the list.
I am not going to list what MMORPG's features were, we have all heard it a 1000X For the niche market who started MMO's we feel neglected. There has not been a decent atempt at making what we feel is an MMO. Again there is still a niche market for them. But the kids that ignore it and say they could never work again and should never be made have no clue what they are talking about. Games should be made for every market. FFA PVP, Hardcore PVE, you name it games should be made. We all should not be forced to choose to play the same linear themepark on speed rails or not play at all.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
The market may not have grown to the huge proportion that its at ttoday, but I don't think there's any doubt that the "niche" market could easily have supported a decent number of providers. EVE proves every day that the niche market can be viable and profitable, even if you only appeal to 200K players.
But.. But wait! who wants to make a niche game that only draws in 20 to 100 k users when they can copy the mainstream of existing models? The Indie? Whoa! Wait a sec here.. The indie is the small fish and first to get eaten by the sharks when they do try so why the fuck not just move to another more lucrative market and let this genre die its death of dissatisfaction?
When my father was growing up, classic rock was the music young people listened to. His parents listend to something earlier than that and thought classic rock was trash. When I was growing up, alternative rock was what was popular and it's what I still a big fan of. Before I graduated High School rap became popular and still is. Am I supposed to quit loving rock and become a fan of rap to "get with the times?"
But that's really the same thing. Music is popular when it is popular. It's fine if you like a particular style of music, but to expect anyone to keep making that music after it's stopped being popular is a bit absurd.
Then artists must be absurd, because there's still a fair number of them out there making music that doesn't fall into the 'pop' category.
If you want new music, you have to change with the times or you have to accept that your time is past and deal with it.
This is completely untrue. I may not be able to find the music I like as readily on the radio stations as I was when it was 'popular,' but it's still being made by new artists. A little (very little) digging will turn up an insane number of internet radio stations, musical podcasts, and independent releases catering to literally any genre, no matter how niche or mainstream it may be.
My point is that people like what they like, and to expect them to like something different because that's what is popular/what the masses like is ignorant.
It doesn't matter what people like, they have to be realistic as to their expectations.
So many people on the forums are just not being realistic.
'Realistic expectations' would have shot down the Apollo program before it even started. I'll take idealism over that anyday.
I am not going to list what MMORPG's features were, we have all heard it a 1000X For the niche market who started MMO's we feel neglected. There has not been a decent atempt at making what we feel is an MMO. Again there is still a niche market for them. But the kids that ignore it and say they could never work again and should never be made have no clue what they are talking about. Games should be made for every market. FFA PVP, Hardcore PVE, you name it games should be made. We all should not be forced to choose to play the same linear themepark on speed rails or not play at all.
Why? Not all markets are big enough to support investments. Would you bet your career on a market that is known to be small?
And you are not forced to play anything. You mentioned it yourself .. you can "not play at all". There are plenty of other entertainment.
If you want new music, you have to change with the times or you have to accept that your time is past and deal with it.
This is completely untrue. I may not be able to find the music I like as readily on the radio stations as I was when it was 'popular,' but it's still being made by new artists. A little (very little) digging will turn up an insane number of internet radio stations, musical podcasts, and independent releases catering to literally any genre, no matter how niche or mainstream it may be.
Music is a poor analogy to MMO. The cost of entry is low. A garage with a guitar is enough for a musician to start. You can't do that with MMOs.
I love mmorpgs, just dont like the new aged garbage. Too simplistic, easy, no creativity, no exploration, no excitting feelings any longer, rewards for the trvial tasks now, dont feel like i earned anything, maps are too small and i feel claustrophobic. I just think mmorpgs and console rpgs should be kept seperate and each person needs to find their right game. I like them wide open, lots of freedom, being able to climb the mountain peak just to see whats there, be able to craft everything in game, to have social interaction, to rely on your community brothers. MMORPG's have changed a lot, im not willing to change with them. Ill just wait for one to come along that suites me (and there are a few coming woooot).
I love mmorpgs, just dont like the new aged garbage. Too simplistic, easy, no creativity, no exploration, no excitting feelings any longer, rewards for the trvial tasks now, dont feel like i earned anything, maps are too small and i feel claustrophobic. I just think mmorpgs and console rpgs should be kept seperate and each person needs to find their right game. I like them wide open, lots of freedom, being able to climb the mountain peak just to see whats there, be able to craft everything in game, to have social interaction, to rely on your community brothers. MMORPG's have changed a lot, im not willing to change with them. Ill just wait for one to come along that suites me (and there are a few coming woooot).
That is a very narrow minded view. A lot of innovation and new kind of fun can arise from combining ideas from different genre. Borderland is such a good game because it combines FPS & RPG elements.
There is no reason why MMO elements cannot be put into online RPGs, and vice versa. And in fact, it is happening. D3 has AH, and crafting. PoE has open zones. Destiny is going to do a new kind of online matching. PS2 is a FPS with open world pvp. More variety is good for the industry.
But i do agree each person need to find their right game.
Comments
I pretty much feel the same way. I'm playing Tera a bit right now but I probably won't keep going because apart from some things I think the game could be doing better, I know that elitism rules in end game, and I don't want to just level a character to level a character. MMO's in general are seeming more pointless to me. Even in GW2, the dungeons are fun and thanks to the "everyone is equal" mindset, every single group I've been in has been pleasant (never happened this often in gear treadmill games), but you're really grinding just to look different.
What I'd really like is a game like Skyrim that scales according to parties of any size, thus you could play with one or two other people if you really wanted to.
But that's really the same thing. Music is popular when it is popular. It's fine if you like a particular style of music, but to expect anyone to keep making that music after it's stopped being popular is a bit absurd. If you want new music, you have to change with the times or you have to accept that your time is past and deal with it.
It doesn't matter what people like, they have to be realistic as to their expectations.
So many people on the forums are just not being realistic.Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Passion does not excuse fanaticism. Clearly, developers are not listening to what goes on here or they'd be making old-school MMOs. They realize that fanatics really aren't the best people to listen to, they're hard to please in the first place and the first time you do anything they don't like, they rage-quit and go bitch about it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I agree OP, the term mmo has become a dirty word, a negative way to describe a game. mmo to 95% of the world literally means "like-WoW". if you suggest to these people that an mmo could be twitch, have no npcs or not have level/gear grind they will say "thats not an mmo". dean hall said in a interview a while back that mmo is a naughty word.
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In my case, everyone is so busy rushing to endgame and I have zero interest in endgame at all. I'd rather explore and take my time and enjoy myself and finding anyone that isn't running as fast as they can down the road is virtually impossible. Modern MMOs tend to appeal to people who are not only willing, but happy to just use people to get their XP and loot, when people stop being useful, they get jettisoned.
I agree with you, but the old-school fanatics don't want anything to scale, they want everything to be hard so you can't play the game at all unless you have a big party.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I see lots of familiar faces with lots of similar views. I agree with most of them and with the OP.
Went through a phase of being hyped about any new mmorpg for the past 3-5 years, been burned so many times that I just stopped caring anymore. Not going to list all the games I tried and left after a month or two because I won't even remember them all.
So sick and tired of everything the mmorpg market has to offer atm that I'm simply playing single-player games lately. I have more hours in Skyrim and Borderlands 1 and 2 now than most mmorpgs released in the past 2 years. And guess what? I'm having much more fun while doing so. Plain old fun.
I didn't give up on the genre, I still follow some games with interesting ideas and hope that they succeed. I am no longer really hyped about anything but am just passively waiting for a new game to be released, hoping that it brings something new to the table and succeeds while doing so.
Am currently waiting for April 2nd with digital deluxe pre-order of Defiance, hoping that both the game and the show will be worthy. To be honest, my hopes aren't high. Yes, I preordered, because I like what the game "seems to be". Yes, I've been burned enough to know better. Stupid? Maybe. But if I stop hoping for the best and giving new mmorpgs that are finally trying to do something new a chance, all hope is lost...
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
Reminds me of the time I got kicked from a guild in WoW that I'd been tanking ICC for for months because I won too many rolls. lol
People I considered pretty friendly overall turned on me like a pack of wild dogs over some stupid virtual junk.
You sure about that? Runescape released old school servers of the game and they are VERY well received.
You mean mmorpgs. You can't classify all mmos as the same style of game because there are a ton of different styles within modern mmos. Now if you're talking about mmorpgs then yes, they all tend to gravitate towards the same WoW style.
Did they turn on your because you won too many rolls or did you fail to pass on rolling for gear that you didn't really need or they felt was better suited to other people in the raid?
That certainly could cause some hard feelings which is why most raid guids went with a DKP system to better balance loot distribution. My main guild in WOW ran a combination of DKP with Loot Council, which pretty much decided who got what loot and when.
The goal was to make sure loot was distributed in a manner most likely to make the guild succeed rather than focus on any one person or group.
I too gave up on modern MMO dungeon running because the endless grind for loot isn't what I really enjoy, but not because I was really angry with the mechanics of the distribution system.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Maybe, just maybe, the game designs of the early titles brought the best out in people rather than cater to their worst instincts.
I don't think people really are any better or worse than years ago, I think the games reward the wrong sort of behavior and don't reward positive actions appropriately.
So yes, I do blame the games not the players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And yet the Rolling Stones are around the top of the gross earnings charts most years. Just because fashions change, it doesn't mean there is not big money to be made providing new versions of older quality entertainment.
The reason the games changed was because of the players. The old-school games were made specifically for a very small niche audience. There were not enough people in that niche audience to fuel an entire genre of games. In order to appeal to a wider audience, they started to appeal to what the much larger mainsteam audience wanted. The games didn't make the audience, the audience made the games. Had the developers not expanded to a larger audience, the MMO marketplace would have eventually died because there just wasn't enough money in that niche market to keep these companies afloat in the long term.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Devs are more likely to notice recent big hits like WOT, than ranting on forums, who want to go back to 10+ year old tried-and-failed ideas.
The real MMORPG's for the most part are dead. MMORPG's have de-evolved to nothing more than mere online RPG's. If you would have asked me 13-15 years ago what this genre would have been, I can tell you this, I would have been dead wrong.
On the other hand what If you would have asked me about RPGs with online features would be like, I would have nailed it.
I thought single player rpgs would evolve to something the current MMORPG genre represents now. I had no idea the mmorpg genre would fall so far. I still have faith to see some real MMORPGS's there was a small market for them once, there still is a small market for them now. A real MMORPG is and will always be a niche game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
"real MMORPG"? All genre changes and evolve according to customers' preferences.
When you say "devolve", it means "evolve" for many.
Good online RPG with some MMO features are fun games for many. There is nothing wrong with them. In fact, it is not just online RPG ... there is actually many directions MMO-ish games are going. PvP arena games. Online RPGs. World shooters. The future is very interesting.
Yeah, they have evolved into games that people jump in and out of, its great! Not like 95+% have been a huge disappointment or anything.
The market may not have grown to the huge proportion that its at ttoday, but I don't think there's any doubt that the "niche" market could easily have supported a decent number of providers. EVE proves every day that the niche market can be viable and profitable, even if you only appeal to 200K players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMORPG's have not evolved, the went backwards to fill the need for single player online RPG's which they have done. I expected single player rpg's to evolve to fill this game market not the other way around.
I am not saying those games should not exist, I am just saying MMORPG's went backwards to fill this. These online rpg's that are called MMO's most definatly should exist, there is a massive market for them. There is also a market for niche mmo genre like there always was. Some of the nich MMORPG's are the highest profiting in the MMO genre to date. FFXI was insanely profitable. YOu can not say the same about the ones being released today. They use gimik titles to sell box copies and they are a ghost town 6 months after release. TESO is the next one on the list.
I am not going to list what MMORPG's features were, we have all heard it a 1000X For the niche market who started MMO's we feel neglected. There has not been a decent atempt at making what we feel is an MMO. Again there is still a niche market for them. But the kids that ignore it and say they could never work again and should never be made have no clue what they are talking about. Games should be made for every market. FFA PVP, Hardcore PVE, you name it games should be made. We all should not be forced to choose to play the same linear themepark on speed rails or not play at all.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
But.. But wait! who wants to make a niche game that only draws in 20 to 100 k users when they can copy the mainstream of existing models? The Indie? Whoa! Wait a sec here.. The indie is the small fish and first to get eaten by the sharks when they do try so why the fuck not just move to another more lucrative market and let this genre die its death of dissatisfaction?
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Then artists must be absurd, because there's still a fair number of them out there making music that doesn't fall into the 'pop' category.
This is completely untrue. I may not be able to find the music I like as readily on the radio stations as I was when it was 'popular,' but it's still being made by new artists. A little (very little) digging will turn up an insane number of internet radio stations, musical podcasts, and independent releases catering to literally any genre, no matter how niche or mainstream it may be.
'Realistic expectations' would have shot down the Apollo program before it even started. I'll take idealism over that anyday.
Why? Not all markets are big enough to support investments. Would you bet your career on a market that is known to be small?
And you are not forced to play anything. You mentioned it yourself .. you can "not play at all". There are plenty of other entertainment.
Music is a poor analogy to MMO. The cost of entry is low. A garage with a guitar is enough for a musician to start. You can't do that with MMOs.
I love mmorpgs, just dont like the new aged garbage. Too simplistic, easy, no creativity, no exploration, no excitting feelings any longer, rewards for the trvial tasks now, dont feel like i earned anything, maps are too small and i feel claustrophobic. I just think mmorpgs and console rpgs should be kept seperate and each person needs to find their right game. I like them wide open, lots of freedom, being able to climb the mountain peak just to see whats there, be able to craft everything in game, to have social interaction, to rely on your community brothers. MMORPG's have changed a lot, im not willing to change with them. Ill just wait for one to come along that suites me (and there are a few coming woooot).
That is a very narrow minded view. A lot of innovation and new kind of fun can arise from combining ideas from different genre. Borderland is such a good game because it combines FPS & RPG elements.
There is no reason why MMO elements cannot be put into online RPGs, and vice versa. And in fact, it is happening. D3 has AH, and crafting. PoE has open zones. Destiny is going to do a new kind of online matching. PS2 is a FPS with open world pvp. More variety is good for the industry.
But i do agree each person need to find their right game.