I have never played a stealther in anything but thidranki and I'm a full supporter of stealth in this game... Even though the stealth zergs made soloing impossible so I love the idea about more stealth in the area make them visible, would spread stealthers out along supply lines encouraging soloing. Thus erasin the only bad thing about stealthers - stealth zergs
Firmly believe soloing should be viable in this game and I hope mark looks at something like this and doesn't just erase stealthers
Don't have a high burst dps class with stealth, give it to a sustained dps class. That basically only gives stealthers a partial advantage in certain situations instead of instagank and run. Also if you want to give the stealth class something that would make non-stealth classes want one around, give it an ability such as tracking to counter the stealth. Basically a scout.
Don't have a high burst dps class with stealth, give it to a sustained dps class. That basically only gives stealthers a partial advantage in certain situations instead of instagank and run. Also if you want to give the stealth class something that would make non-stealth classes want one around, give it an ability such as tracking to counter the stealth. Basically a scout.
Hmm yeah if you give stealthers radar that would certainly get them group invites lol.
Originally posted by Mark Jacobs LOL, if people are thinking of me as a messiah, they are going to be sorely disappointed as I’m just a fellow gaming geek who wants to make a very unique game for a niche audience."
your niche is with ya, gl on the project mark
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
what if stealth is phasing in another dimension, so if 2 ppl are stealthing , even of oposite realms, they can see each other cause all of them are on the same plane. u can even create skills that only work in the 2nd dimension or create classses especialized in fighting on 2nd dimension agains phased enemies. If the player atacks someone on the "phisical" world they become visible and if they atack someone from the 2nd dimension they stay invisible.
about scouts you can create a fast one, a stealth one and a crowd control one. just my opinion.
How about we just use common sense when it comes to stealth. Lets go with modifiers first.
Bonus to Stealth
-standing still
-crouching near an object (bushes, etc)
-shadows
Negative Modifiers
-rate of movement speed
-direct light
-direct view range
Stealth seems pretty easy to me. The closer the stealthed target is, the easier they should be to notice if they are in the direct line of sight of a player. Stealth should be a tactic not the only method a class has to fight. Using bushes, trees, rocks, etc to block line of sight is stealth and should be made effective. Vanishing in thin air infront of an enemy, while in direct sunlight, thats invisibility and not stealth.
I believe stealth should be a skill and not class specific. Raise Dex or Agi gain a modifier to stealth. Crouch in the appropriate bushes and holy shit, your stealthed. Maybe some classes have bonuses to stealth, but a class being 100% focused on stealth is rather absurd.
Stealth should be a tactic limited by the environment.
what if stealth is phasing in another dimension, so if 2 ppl are stealthing , even of oposite realms, they can see each other cause all of them are on the same plane. u can even create skills that only work in the 2nd dimension or create classses especialized in fighting on 2nd dimension agains phased enemies. If the player atacks someone on the "phisical" world they become visible and if they atack someone from the 2nd dimension they stay invisible.
about scouts you can create a fast one, a stealth one and a crowd control one. just my opinion.
I wouldn´t go so far to actually make it another dimension where everyone is able to see the others, but since the veil has been pierced it might be possible to use something here to explain an "invisible" class.
Although I´m quite fond of those dymanic stealth suggestions too. I just think, that someone playing a stealther should have permastealth. Anything less is just annoying for someone playing a class like that.
The real reason you can't have Assassins in PvP games is that they are supposed to be exceptionally rare and talented characters.
Not disagreeing with your basic point but... So are Elves. At least according to JRRT.
How did that one work out?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Vened I got one question. How CU will work with hundreds of players in one place? RvR means for me fight 5v1, 5v5, 5v20, 300v300. There is almost none mmorpg with large and small scale pvp. Will CU be one of them?
That sir is the key question and one of the two main focuses of Andrew and the team. That's one of the reasons we've already eliminated a number of possible rendering engines. It's truly our biggest technical challenge as it is for any team that tries to do an RvR game. Making a game look good with 20 people on the screen is for tourists, making a game with hundreds of people on the screen run well, that's another matter entirely.
I'm not familiar enough with the technology to comment on it specifically. But I would like to say that if I had to choose between a high definition eyecandy display with a slow frame rate that got jerky whenever more than a dozen players were on the sreen at once, or a cartoonish bland looking cube world where a thousand of my best friends and I could smash each other to bits with no impact on (hardware/display) performance, then give me Dilbert. Maybe growing up in the age of pacman has dumbed down my expectations, but the one thing that will prevent me from playing any game is to have to endure death by "lag" or whatever you wish to call it.
stealth classes hunter/scout/ranger these are wildernest servivers there skills at hiding and moving are in a wilderness and should be linked to this tarrain type in towns and villages and keeps it should be reduces massavly or negated totaly
assasins exsist and not as rare as some ppl think but think how do they earn there living they get payed by people with mony mostly to kill people with for verious resons most of there training would be getting in to places where there target is so i would like to see 2 types of stealth for this class hide in shadows they can stealth around built up areas any where there is a wall and shadows for them to hide in /sneek around but usless inopen areas( nothing to hide in)as the people paying them willmost likely be living in towns or cities most of there training would have been in this type of tarrain and a mimic skill where they can phisicaly disgise them selves as some one else to get close to there target a different type of stealth hiding in plain sight and being what people expect to see
also assasins should be squishy they shouldnt be wearing armour at all to heavy bulky and restrictive to clime up walls to that open window to get in side disgiusing your self as a servent servents dont wear armour
but they should still hit hard they know where to hit you where it hurts their job after all is killing people :-p
this would give you stealther classes in to use in both scouting and attacking towns and keeps but not stealthers that can stand in the middle of an open area with out cover or any where to hide and one shot any one who comes by they have to be a bit more sneeky than that
I always thought stealthing was fun, but I was never that good at it. However, a scout type person playing front man for the group is interesting, only you could never run as fast as everyone else.
It is good to have a scout going forward, but instead of a 'stealth button' maybe they just need to have the right armor to blend into the woods, snow, urban environment - etc. Just like any sniper would. That would give the crafters some fun coming up with a good stealth outfit for a certain class since Mark has already noted that crafters are going to play a big role, since there will be no PVE drops for stuff. Which is about time that happened.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine! /salutes
Ah.
Personally, I think permastealth is fine for travel, but should have a strong chance to pop when within line of sight (forward cone effect) of any enemy character/NPC. If an assassin wants to infiltrate a keep/settlement/building, they should actually have to keep out of sight of the guards.
Short term, melee attack stealth should work similar to WAR's witchhunter/witchelf. It's a quick rush - stab - run away ... or a quick stealth - rush past the guard and find a hidey hole - wait for cooldown.
Camouflage for ranged characters would be permastealth as long as they made no movement. If the archer moves while in line of sight of an enemy player/NPC, the stealth should pop.
Why is it that we as gamers equate invisibility to stealth? Sneaking around from cover to cover is TRUE stealth,not invisibility. If it is to be part of CU then make it TRUE stealth not invisibility.
Stealth is an interesting and different game mechanic, I can see no good academic reason to throw it out. The emotional reasons are obvious, usually based on feelings of uneven balance, skill free playstyle, unfair engagements and memories of griefing/ganking.
The stealth classes need to be balanced bearing in mind, the advantage of always getting to pick when and where to fight, and the expected reaction times of the average player and the situational advantage that gives the stealther.
I would suggest:
- lowering overall dps for all stealthers such that they are balanced given a 1-2 second headstart on opening dps.
- remove burst openers. any burst needs to be back loaded requiring a certain number of builder attacks.
- no cheap escapes. Since the stealther has the choice of when an if to engage, they should have to commit to that choice. TLDR: no vanish, no sprint in stealth, no debuff cleanses/purges.
- All stealther abilities should be direct damage and melee range. No dots, no max range archery attacks. The reason is obvious, if they open on a target they have a reaction time window they can exploit to escape the response unless they are forced to melee direct damage.
- No bonuses for positional attacks, that means no backstab bonuses.
- Long cooldown on restealth, but permanent duration until broken.
- No controls like stun, blind etc, unless controls are regularly available to all classes, or unless the extra available safe uptime is factored into reduced stealther dps caps. TLDR no stunlocks.
- frontal cone detection chance should be almost 100% at all times, no talents, gear or enchants to reduce it.
- stealther movement speed in stealth reduces on scaling system based on how many enemy are within a set range, e.g., 100% movement when no enemy around, 75% movement with 1-3 enemy within 40 yds and 50% movement with 3 or more within 40 yards.
Comments
Even though the stealth zergs made soloing impossible so I love the idea about more stealth in the area make them visible, would spread stealthers out along supply lines encouraging soloing. Thus erasin the only bad thing about stealthers - stealth zergs
Firmly believe soloing should be viable in this game and I hope mark looks at something like this and doesn't just erase stealthers
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Don't have a high burst dps class with stealth, give it to a sustained dps class. That basically only gives stealthers a partial advantage in certain situations instead of instagank and run. Also if you want to give the stealth class something that would make non-stealth classes want one around, give it an ability such as tracking to counter the stealth. Basically a scout.
Hmm yeah if you give stealthers radar that would certainly get them group invites lol.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
your niche is with ya, gl on the project mark
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
what if stealth is phasing in another dimension, so if 2 ppl are stealthing , even of oposite realms, they can see each other cause all of them are on the same plane. u can even create skills that only work in the 2nd dimension or create classses especialized in fighting on 2nd dimension agains phased enemies. If the player atacks someone on the "phisical" world they become visible and if they atack someone from the 2nd dimension they stay invisible.
about scouts you can create a fast one, a stealth one and a crowd control one. just my opinion.
How about we just use common sense when it comes to stealth. Lets go with modifiers first.
Bonus to Stealth
-standing still
-crouching near an object (bushes, etc)
-shadows
Negative Modifiers
-rate of movement speed
-direct light
-direct view range
Stealth seems pretty easy to me. The closer the stealthed target is, the easier they should be to notice if they are in the direct line of sight of a player. Stealth should be a tactic not the only method a class has to fight. Using bushes, trees, rocks, etc to block line of sight is stealth and should be made effective. Vanishing in thin air infront of an enemy, while in direct sunlight, thats invisibility and not stealth.
I believe stealth should be a skill and not class specific. Raise Dex or Agi gain a modifier to stealth. Crouch in the appropriate bushes and holy shit, your stealthed. Maybe some classes have bonuses to stealth, but a class being 100% focused on stealth is rather absurd.
Stealth should be a tactic limited by the environment.
I wouldn´t go so far to actually make it another dimension where everyone is able to see the others, but since the veil has been pierced it might be possible to use something here to explain an "invisible" class.
Although I´m quite fond of those dymanic stealth suggestions too. I just think, that someone playing a stealther should have permastealth. Anything less is just annoying for someone playing a class like that.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
Not disagreeing with your basic point but... So are Elves. At least according to JRRT.
How did that one work out?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm not familiar enough with the technology to comment on it specifically. But I would like to say that if I had to choose between a high definition eyecandy display with a slow frame rate that got jerky whenever more than a dozen players were on the sreen at once, or a cartoonish bland looking cube world where a thousand of my best friends and I could smash each other to bits with no impact on (hardware/display) performance, then give me Dilbert. Maybe growing up in the age of pacman has dumbed down my expectations, but the one thing that will prevent me from playing any game is to have to endure death by "lag" or whatever you wish to call it.
my thoughts on this
stealth classes hunter/scout/ranger these are wildernest servivers there skills at hiding and moving are in a wilderness and should be linked to this tarrain type in towns and villages and keeps it should be reduces massavly or negated totaly
assasins exsist and not as rare as some ppl think but think how do they earn there living they get payed by people with mony mostly to kill people with for verious resons most of there training would be getting in to places where there target is so i would like to see 2 types of stealth for this class hide in shadows they can stealth around built up areas any where there is a wall and shadows for them to hide in /sneek around but usless inopen areas( nothing to hide in)as the people paying them willmost likely be living in towns or cities most of there training would have been in this type of tarrain and a mimic skill where they can phisicaly disgise them selves as some one else to get close to there target a different type of stealth hiding in plain sight and being what people expect to see
also assasins should be squishy they shouldnt be wearing armour at all to heavy bulky and restrictive to clime up walls to that open window to get in side disgiusing your self as a servent servents dont wear armour
but they should still hit hard they know where to hit you where it hurts their job after all is killing people :-p
this would give you stealther classes in to use in both scouting and attacking towns and keeps but not stealthers that can stand in the middle of an open area with out cover or any where to hide and one shot any one who comes by they have to be a bit more sneeky than that
Tasaroca Troll ( I am not a buff bot damit) Shamy
Midgaurd /Prydwen / EU
I always thought stealthing was fun, but I was never that good at it. However, a scout type person playing front man for the group is interesting, only you could never run as fast as everyone else.
It is good to have a scout going forward, but instead of a 'stealth button' maybe they just need to have the right armor to blend into the woods, snow, urban environment - etc. Just like any sniper would. That would give the crafters some fun coming up with a good stealth outfit for a certain class since Mark has already noted that crafters are going to play a big role, since there will be no PVE drops for stuff. Which is about time that happened.
Silj - Midgard/Guin
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine! /salutes
Ah.
Personally, I think permastealth is fine for travel, but should have a strong chance to pop when within line of sight (forward cone effect) of any enemy character/NPC. If an assassin wants to infiltrate a keep/settlement/building, they should actually have to keep out of sight of the guards.
Short term, melee attack stealth should work similar to WAR's witchhunter/witchelf. It's a quick rush - stab - run away ... or a quick stealth - rush past the guard and find a hidey hole - wait for cooldown.
Camouflage for ranged characters would be permastealth as long as they made no movement. If the archer moves while in line of sight of an enemy player/NPC, the stealth should pop.
Just my $0.02
Why is it that we as gamers equate invisibility to stealth? Sneaking around from cover to cover is TRUE stealth,not invisibility. If it is to be part of CU then make it TRUE stealth not invisibility.
Here is why :http://youtu.be/J7OYniHrGqE and the 1000's of other videos showing the same thing as this one.
Stealth is an interesting and different game mechanic, I can see no good academic reason to throw it out. The emotional reasons are obvious, usually based on feelings of uneven balance, skill free playstyle, unfair engagements and memories of griefing/ganking.
The stealth classes need to be balanced bearing in mind, the advantage of always getting to pick when and where to fight, and the expected reaction times of the average player and the situational advantage that gives the stealther.I would suggest:
- lowering overall dps for all stealthers such that they are balanced given a 1-2 second headstart on opening dps.
- remove burst openers. any burst needs to be back loaded requiring a certain number of builder attacks.
- no cheap escapes. Since the stealther has the choice of when an if to engage, they should have to commit to that choice. TLDR: no vanish, no sprint in stealth, no debuff cleanses/purges.
- All stealther abilities should be direct damage and melee range. No dots, no max range archery attacks. The reason is obvious, if they open on a target they have a reaction time window they can exploit to escape the response unless they are forced to melee direct damage.
- No bonuses for positional attacks, that means no backstab bonuses.
- Long cooldown on restealth, but permanent duration until broken.
- No controls like stun, blind etc, unless controls are regularly available to all classes, or unless the extra available safe uptime is factored into reduced stealther dps caps. TLDR no stunlocks.
- frontal cone detection chance should be almost 100% at all times, no talents, gear or enchants to reduce it.
- stealther movement speed in stealth reduces on scaling system based on how many enemy are within a set range, e.g., 100% movement when no enemy around, 75% movement with 1-3 enemy within 40 yds and 50% movement with 3 or more within 40 yards.