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Opposed and incompatible informations about archeage situation regarding pvp
maccarthur2004
Member UncommonPosts: 511
In the last weeks, There have been several articles and posts about archeage, in this forum and outside, speaking of the status of the game regarding the pvp ruleset and the enviroment that it created.
Some articles seens to say that archeage will have a gank fest and will be a complete turn-off to casual players or even to the western average players. Some others states the oposite: the game is full of safe zones and limitations in the pvp mechanics (e.g: forced factions, flaws in the flagging system, flaws in the economy, etc) making the pvp severily restricted in quantity and quality, being without meaning in the practice.
So, which of that 2 negative visions about the game is nearer the truth?
Seens that this mmo will not have appeal to the "extremists" players, but only to the average ones. Players from WoW/ FFXI/Rift/GW2 or from Darkfall/Mortal Online will both consider the game a turn-off by oposite reasons. This game will appeal more to "average" players, used to play mmos like Asheron's Call, SWG, Lineage, EVE, etc
Comments
Let me first say that I hope the bad about systems are exaggerated.
Second, I don't think those 2 things are not incompatable, and in the worst case serario can exist at the same time. Safe zones can cause camping. I remember when swtor added kill fields to the bases on Ilum. It turned into fishing for kill at the edge of the fields.
Trust me I know how people can exaggerate, but in worst case scenarios both are possible.
Nobody should get turned off (or hyped for that matter) before actually trying something for them selves.
http://mmocultgr.blogspot.com
I have been following Archeage over the last several months, but I have never played the game itself, so like you, I am getting all of my information second hand. It is my understanding that even the Korean version is still undergoing changes regardless of the fact it went live in... January? I am also sure that we will see some changes to that version when the Westernization comes. Maybe not... Some people may be happy, and some, not so happy.
I personally am not a big fan of PvP. For the most part, my experiences with PvP have been groups of douchebags ganking lowblies, or just a single douchebag ganking people 50 levels below them. I never understood how anyone could be such a child and/or sociopath to *enjoy* their gametime by ruining it for others. Don't get me wrong, I understand that a big draw for a lot of Archeage fans is the open PvP but really... how many of those people actually like the excitement part of it and how many just can't wait to be assholes and start ganking people everywhere? For those of you in the former category, no offense intended. I do not like the idea of a gankfest in ANY game, as it just lends itself to people being assholes... always. If I want my heart to beat fast... I'll go exercise... not be chased by a group of people trying to kill me and steal my shit in a game. That doesn't mean I don't want a game with penalties, or risk, or something like that. I'm sorry, but 99% of the people who want openPvP with no safezones or limit restrictions are douchebag gankers... and you know it.
The sandboxiness aspects of Archeage sound very interesting to me, but it also sounds like it requires a lot of heavy socialization via guilds, but again, I haven't played it and this is just what I seem understand from the posts I have read. I think most people would agree that the Asian crowd of MMO'ers are a lot more group/guild oriented than a large percentage of Western players. I'm not saying that is bad or good.... but I do tend to lean heavily towards doing my own thing.
In the end, Trion will do what they think they need to do to attract the most players. They are in this business to make money. If it is a hardcore UO type game, they are not going to attract casuals and people who just don't want that sort of risk when they play a game. On the other hand, from the way Archeage is designed, there seems to be a heavy PvP aspect, so they will need to work that out somehow. I'm sure I'll get the call from them any day now to ask me how exactly they want to fix it. Trion, PM me if you want my number and we can work it out. *Wink*
--Sagorn
Sagorn, one thing you should have in mind: Archeage is hyped by it's differences from present mainstream mmos, not by what it will have equal. So, to hope that developers make features like WoW's or Rift's is to kill the game.
Some are worried because the safezones are in coastal areas, so is possible to high level players make sea trades protected by safe areas, what can kill the risk system intended to such activity.
I feel you have those groups a little mixxed up, Asheron's Call, SWG, Lineage, EVE, Darkfall/Mortal Online players are the "Extremists", those who play WoW/FFXI/Rift/GW2 are the "average" players.
But I am also interested on what the truth is on the PvP for this game.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
I dont mean population statistics wit the term "average", but only the pvp preferences spectrum.
The extremists are people that wanna either a carebear paradise (everyone coloring their houses, cultivating flowers, giving their hands and being happy) or a mega-ultra-hardcore full loot pvp. Average players are positioned in intermediate positions in that spectrum.
I am not sure what you mean by "average". I am an above average MMO player (I would say) but I just don't like PvP. So.. basiscally anyone who plays 'carebear" MMO's is average and people who like to stroke their e-peens are "l33t"? Come on now...
--Sagorn
I know thats what you ment by "Average", in my example above, EVE, Darkfall/Mortal Online, Lineage, and Asheron's Call all have extreme PvP, SWG had great Factional warfare but not everyone got involved some were extremly into Merchant/Crafting stuff thus they were "Extremists". WoW/FFXI/Rift/GW2 have PvP and PvE but none of it is very extreme one way or another, the PvP isnt FFA or Free loot and is all concentual, while the PvE is all Linear, thus no extreme one way or another and "average".
To the poster above its not ment as an insult, thats just how it is.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
I don't care if people want to PvP, I just don't want to be a part of it.
If PvP was optional, the *hardcore* PvPers would not play... do you want to know why? Because the *hardcore* PvPers are usually hardcore griefers who just like to go around stroking their e-peens as they smash people who clearly have no interest in PvP, and are easy targets. If that wasn't the case, then the hardcore PvPers would just all flag PvP and have a blast killing each other while the rest of the "carebear paradise" people went about their business.
If a game like UO came out now, it would last a very short time. Sorry, but most people do not want to lose hours of gameplay because some dick decided to be a dick. I understand that there are *some* people who find full loot permadeath open world PvP exciting, but that is very, very small crowd. If games like Archeage, or even WoW had a hardcore PvP server with permadeath etc... it would be barren.
Please don't call me and others "carebears" because we don't find "fun" in wasiting hours of gameplay because other players want to be assholes.
--Sagorn
Something I forgot....
If there are some sort of repercussions for being a ganker, then I can see it being a little more interesting. People like openworld pvp because they feel it is more real for the player to be able to do whatever they want. Well.. guess what, that's not very realistic now is it? In the "real" world people don't murder someone without taking a big risk. Yes... some people don't care, but with any luck they end up paying the price for it. When an openpvp world has some real penalties for being a dick, then I'll give it more consideration. Until then, as long as you can freely be a prick without ANY sort of negative response, no thanks.
--Sagorn
Fair post here. Your post before this one was offensive.
Wasn't meant to be offensive. Was basically my opinion. I wasn't pointing any fingers at any one specific. If you think I was wrong, explain why, but don't say it was offensive without saying why.
--Sagorn
Exactly how it is swg style?
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Everything is relativ. Of course he meant average in behaivor and playstyle of pvp. And if you dont like, or dont play pvp at all you are of course a extremist in terms of pvp. Is that that hard to understand? Dont feel attacked.. about that.
And by the way.. if a player dont like, or dont can stand any form of pvp, or enforced pvp upon him, Arche Age may be the wrong game. It is a pvp game, and you may be involved in pvp if you like it or not. You can of course avoid a lot of pvp, but not completely.
It is all good and nice. But try to understand, that some player unlike you indeed enjoy pvp. And that a game where pvp is involved in everything and will influence everything is for some pvp player a lot more interesting than a game where pvp is just about fighting.
Look.. for a lot of player pvp is not just the fight. It is the war about resources, it is the game about the economy, it is about control of territory, it is about community, influence of a bunch of people and all that... and combat is just a very tiny part of that all.
But you cant have that if you seperate pvp into a battleground or allow some ppl to influence part of it without being involved in pvp. You would destroy the economy, with allowing a few to take part in it without any danger without any pvp.
So try to be as insightful that actually a few ppl like such a game as i understand that some ppl like games without any pvp at all. We may not play together the same game, because our different playstyles, but there is really no need to prejudge other players just because of different interests.
Edit2: In my mind consequences have to be part of pvp. I am completely for some harsh penalities for some pvp behaivor. Low Level ganking and the like is just a from of griefing like ninja looting. But you need other solutions(if you want a all around pvp game) then to restrict it completely. It is all about what you want to deliver, what game do you want. And if that is set in stone you have to look for appropriate solutions. It is easy in a game more based on pve just to restrict pvp to certain areas, but in a game about pvp you cant do that without destroying the pvp world.I'm not as dedicated a researcher as a lot of you guys are, but my understanding is that most of the features which may make PvP more meaningful are not implemented yet. That is - territory control, castle building, player factions etc. on the PvP (Northern?) continent?
Now whether they ever actually will be implemented is another question.
I played UO for 5+ years. I loved the PvP and full loot system before they carebeared it and added Trammel. I didn't make a PKer until this happened.
Next I played Final Fantasy XI for 5+ years. Aside from pointless Ballista, which I never participated in, there was no real PvP. It was strictly a PvE game.
That being the game, saying that all hardcore PvPers are griefers who like to stroke their epeen is false. If that was the case I'd never have played Final Fantasy XI that long. I personally like all aspect of an MMO from fishing and decorating my house for hours to killing a miner by the mountain, stealing his home rune and key, recalling to his house, and robbing him blind.
The problem is Non-PKers usually have a tendency to panic and scatter caring only for their own safety making them easy pickings. PKers, in my experience, aren't like this. They'll protect each other to increase their chances of survival which is why they travel in groups. Besides, Non-PKers far outnumber PKers. If you group up and play smart PKers won't have a chance. However if you want to be solo and anti-social....that's your own fault for getting gang-banged. Make friends...caring is sharing. Besides, when I went rifting on Aion I jumped plenty of people and did a 1 v 2+. Even when a rifting party came to our area I attacked them and did a 6x47+ v 1x50. AoE knockdown. Kill healer, kill sorcerer, kill ranger, kill assassin, kill gladiator....templar. ; ; I may have outleveled them but they had the numbers and setup to easily take me down. Downfall....panicing.
That's why they have jail in this game. In UO if you died as a PKer you lost 5% or 10% of all your skills meaning you had to retrain yourself otherwise you're at a big disadvantage.
If I understand the penalty in Archeage correctly from what I read....I like their system better. Jail. From what I read/heard if you get thrown in jail as a pirate you can get up to 72 hours jail time. 3 days "real time". Sure, you can "escape," but I also read/heard that even in doing this you cannot use your skills (combat) for those 3 days. And it's an in-game counter so you can't just log off and wait for it to go away. So, this "pirate" is out for 3 days. I'd need someone else to confirm all this as a fact though.
I'm personally not going to make a Pirate, but I am looking forward to that patch I heard on Bounties. Hopefully it'll have some sort of system to help players "track" these bounties when they're online. Of course in my mind I've never been able to get around the "flaw" of bounties like they had in UO. What's to prevent a "friend" from collecting this bounty from that player? The only way I see it having any affect is if there is some "harsh" punishment for being caught with a bounty that'll deter people from just having a friend collect it and split the gold.
I don't mind the idea of a safe zone so much. As much as I'd like open world entirely I agree restrictions are sometimes a necessary evil. However, one thing I disagree about with the safe zones is that I heard people could "sail/run" into a safe zone and they're now untouchable. I hate that. If a player leaves the safe zone and engages in combat the opposing party should be able to continue their assault even if they return to a safe zone since they're still engaged in combat.
My biggest concern about the game is the economy. I don't like the idea of "never losing" some things. Iron/Ore should be needed for repair gear/weapons. Ships shouldn't be able to be repaired with gold. They should be repaired with wood/ore. I'd personally like ships to be able to be "lost" permanently after being destroyed 3 times. Otherwise, we'll eventually end up with players not needing wood that much. Then again, there could be a lot of other things that'll keep the wood/ore/materials in balance. I dont' know...I haven't played the game. I just like things to be rough, not easy. I get tired of played games (consoles) on hard settings and still yawning. I just fear when everyone has their houses/ships....no one will need the materials that much anymore and the prices on them will drop.
Anyways, this game has risk vs reward which I haven't enjoyed since UO. Even if it doesn't apply additional "risk" as I would like....I'm satisfied enough. If a lot of these things bother you that much there are plenty of other games that have zero risk. Oh, and I don't recommend looking into World of Darkness if this game's risk bother you. heh Apparently in that game anyone who manages to become Prince of a city can mark any players they don't like for permanent death. :P
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
Not always truth, but usually yes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2TuFHQx0yI
ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube